2 God's

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Noblemen

Senior Member
#1
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#1
What do you see as the difference between the Old testament creator God, and the New Testament Father God.
Just a thought provoking question, I'm just looking for your understanding you dont have to be a scholar to answer.
What I see is that God was a Father before creation but in the Old Testament he had no one he could be Father too.
There was no cross, there was no born again, there were no bona fide offspring birthed of God the Father.
He had in Him all his Fatherly attributes but none to express them too.
So what we have is an angry (with mankind) OT God with Fatherly attributes he cannot express.

So when Jesus came and begin to call God His Father it was a strange phenomenon to people.
Ultimately that is what cost Jesus His life, He called God his Father.

So I have already done one message today, this is just a short story I have had rolling around in me.
Any thoughts good, bad, or indifferent.
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#2
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#2
Noblemen said:
What do you see as the difference between the Old testament creator God, and the New Testament Father God.
Just a thought provoking question, I'm just looking for your understanding you dont have to be a scholar to answer.
What I see is that God was a Father before creation but in the Old Testament he had no one he could be Father too.
There was no cross, there was no born again, there were no bona fide offspring birthed of God the Father.
He had in Him all his Fatherly attributes but none to express them too.
So what we have is an angry (with mankind) OT God with Fatherly attributes he cannot express.

So when Jesus came and begin to call God His Father it was a strange phenomenon to people.
Ultimately that is what cost Jesus His life, He called God his Father.

So I have already done one message today, this is just a short story I have had rolling around in me.
Any thoughts good, bad, or indifferent.
Click to expand...
The Trinity always existed. The Son is eternally begotten (Jn 1:14). The Father always was the Father to the Son. They always existed having their relationship as Father and Son.
 
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Noblemen

Senior Member
#4
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#4
DevotiontoBible said:
The Trinity always existed. The Son is eternally begotten (Jn 1:14). The Father always was the Father to the Son. They always existed having their relationship as Father and Son.
Click to expand...
Agreed, you have anything on the 2 different ways God expressed-expresses Himself.
 
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Noblemen

Senior Member
#5
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#5
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#6
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
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#6
Noblemen said:
Agreed, you have anything on the 2 different ways God expressed-expresses Himself.
Click to expand...
God is not a single person. The Father was the initiator of Creation while the Son was the active agent of Creation. The Son has always submitted to the will of the Father and the Father has always loved the Son.
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#8
Dec 20, 2017
9,263
5,622
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#8
He is the same. The Bible is an integrated whole.
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#10
Dec 20, 2017
9,263
5,622
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#10
Noblemen said:
Surely the cross has Him looking at mankind in a different way some, dont you think.
Click to expand...
Only for those who accept his offer of salvation. There is no point in pretending. The Earth is toast. We've blown it. He has kindly offered us a way out which he started to tell us about in Genesis. If we reject his offer there is no hope. No other way.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#12
Jun 30, 2015
24,688
13,377
113
#12
I'm not going to argue the point, but there is evidence in the Bible that the "God of the Old Testament" is actually Jesus, not the Father. John declares that Isaiah saw Jesus, not the Father, on the throne.

I think that the idea of two different entities results from speculations rather than scholarship. The idea of Jesus throwing down fire and sulfur on Sodom doesn't square with "gentle Jesus, meek and mild". It's more comfortable to put the wrathful god at a distance, equate him with "the Father" Whom we cannot see, and embrace Jesus Who did not do such things while on earth. What is overlooked in such a view is that "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" and "I do what I see My Father doing". In other words, the two are one in character, will, and action.

A side note, with a grammar nazi trigger warning: the plural of god is gods, not god's. The possessive of god is god's, and the plural possessive is gods'.
 
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Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#13
Dec 20, 2017
9,263
5,622
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#13
Noblemen said:
Lucy-Pevensie said:
He is the same. The Bible is an integrated whole.[/QUO

Ok, but how come the judgements aren't as severe as OT, you got to admit He didn't mess around.
Click to expand...
Have you read The Revelation? Don't forget many of the severe judgements in the Old Testament will have a future fulfilment. Same God. He does not change. Also, the love of God is well evident within the Old Testament.
Click to expand...
 
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Noblemen

Senior Member
#14
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#14
Lucy-Pevensie said:
Only for those who accept his offer of salvation. There is no point in pretending. The Earth is toast. We've blown it. He has kindly offered us a way out which he started to tell us about in Genesis. If we reject his offer there is no hope. No other way.
Click to expand...
Yea I know, folk dont realize that day is coming. He provided His Son, on a cross and reject that, no that was His Son.
 
trofimus

trofimus

Senior Member
#15
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#15
Noblemen said:
Ok, but how come the judgements aren't as severe as OT, you got to admit He didn't mess around.
Click to expand...
Eternal hell seems pretty severe to me... Also, read the Revelation and the judgements listed there.

Also, when reviewing history, you can see that judgements in the NT era are also horrible (WWII, for example).
 
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Noblemen

Senior Member
#16
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#16
Lucy-Pevensie said:
Noblemen said:
Have you read The Revelation? Don't forget many of the severe judgements in the Old Testament will have a future fulfilment. Same God. He does not change. Also, the love of God is well evident within the Old Testament.
Click to expand...
Yea but I'm talking about now, thank God it's not now but just looking at the difference.
Click to expand...
 
beta

beta

Senior Member
#17
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
332
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#17
I believe that God Himself is learning from His different experiences...from before being a Father to after begetting a son....because He seems to soften somewhat.
I think we humans also do and get this from God...so much understanding can be gained from our own experiences who are made in the likeness of God.
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#18
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#18
Dino246 said:
I'm not going to argue the point, but there is evidence in the Bible that the "God of the Old Testament" is actually Jesus, not the Father. John declares that Isaiah saw Jesus, not the Father, on the throne.

I think that the idea of two different entities results from speculations rather than scholarship. The idea of Jesus throwing down fire and sulfur on Sodom doesn't square with "gentle Jesus, meek and mild". It's more comfortable to put the wrathful god at a distance, equate him with "the Father" Whom we cannot see, and embrace Jesus Who did not do such things while on earth. What is overlooked in such a view is that "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" and "I do what I see My Father doing". In other words, the two are one in character, will, and action.

A side note, with a grammar nazi trigger warning: the plural of god is gods, not god's. The possessive of god is god's, and the plural possessive is gods'.
Click to expand...
We do see two persons called Jehovah in that story but I have always thought of the one in heaven as the Father and the other one on earth calling the fire down as Jesus who was a man and ate food with Abraham in ch 18:

Then Jehovah rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven;
Genesis 19:24 ASV
https://bible.com/bible/12/gen.19.24.ASV
 
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DevotiontoBible

Senior Member
#19
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#19
beta said:
I believe that God Himself is learning from His different experiences...from before being a Father to after begetting a son....because He seems to soften somewhat.
I think we humans also do and get this from God...so much understanding can be gained from our own experiences who are made in the likeness of God.
Click to expand...
There never was a time the Son was not begotten.
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#20
Dec 20, 2017
9,263
5,622
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#20
Psalm 2:12

[FONT=&quot]Kiss the son, lest he be angry[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] and your way will lead to your destruction,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]for his wrath can flare up in a moment.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Blessed are all who take refuge in him.


[/FONT]
 
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