2 God's

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Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#61
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 John 1:9, “Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of the Messiah, does not have Yah. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 23:39, “For I say to you, from now on you shall by no means see Me, until you say, ‘Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]!”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 118:26-27, “Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]! We shall bless you from the House of [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is Mighty, and He gave us light; Bind the Festival offering With cords to the horns of the Altar.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 21:9, "And the crowds who went before and those who followed cried out, saying, “Hoshia-na to the Son of Dawiḏ! Blessed is He who is coming in the Name of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]! Hoshia-na in the highest!”[/FONT][/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:28, “You have heard that I told you: I go away, but come again to you. If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 7:16-17, "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:19-20, “Therefore [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]responded and said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son is able to do none at all by Himself, but only that which He sees the Father doing, because whatever He does, the Son also likewise does. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all that He Himself does. And greater works than these He is going to show Him, in order that you marvel.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have practiced righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 12:44-50, “Then [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, believes not in Me but in Him who sent Me. And he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, so that no one who believes in Me should stay in darkness. And if anyone hears My Words but does not watch over them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me, and does not receive My Words, has one who judges him: the Word that I have spoken shall judge him in the last day. Because I spoke not from Myself, but the Father who sent Me has given Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, as the Father has said to Me, so I speak.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:46-47, "For had you believed Mosheh, you would have believed Me, for he wrote about Me*. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]*Mosheh wrote:[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I (YHWH) will raise up for them a Prophet (Yahshua/Jesus) like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"listen" is word #8085 - [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]שָׁמַע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]shama` {shaw-mah'}[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 6:35-40, “And [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall not get hungry at all, and he who believes in Me shall not get thirsty at all. But I said to you that you have seen Me, and still do not believe. All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I shall by no means cast out. Because I have come down out of the heaven, not to do My own desire, but the desire of Him who sent Me. This is the desire of the Father who sent Me, that all He has given Me I should not lose of it, but should raise it in the last day. And this is the desire of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him should possess everlasting life. And I shall raise him up in the last day.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 8:13-20, “The Pharisees, therefore, said to Him, “You bear witness about Yourself, Your witness is not true. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered and said to them, “Even if I witness concerning Myself, My witness is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you do not know from where I come, or where I go. You judge according to the flesh, I judge no one. But even if I do judge, My judgment is true, because I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me. And in your Torah also, it has been written that the witness of two men is true. I am One who witnesses concerning Myself, and the Father who sent Me witnesses concerning Me. Therefore they said to Him, “Where is Your Father?” [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father. If you knew Me, you would have known My Father also. These words [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]spoke in the treasury, teaching in the Set-apart Place. And no one laid hands on Him, because His hour had not yet come.”[/FONT]




[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 8:28-29, “So [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Aḏam, then you shall know that I am He, and that I do none at all of Myself, but as My Father taught Me, these words I speak. And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do what pleases Him.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:21-23, “Not everyone who says to Me; Maser! Master! Will enter into the Kingdom of YHWH, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day;Maser! Master! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 15:5-16, "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, produces much fruit; but without Me, you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away like a branch, and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and letting My words; abide in you, you will ask what you will, and it will be done for you. In this is My Father glorified: when you produce much fruit; and in this way you become My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, so have I loved you; continue in My love. If you keep My Commands, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's Commands, and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you, that My joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be complete. This is My Command: Love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: that one would lay down his life on behalf of his brothers. You are My brothers, if you do whatever I command you."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 16:5-16, “But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and not one of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ But because I have said these words to you, grief has filled your heart. But I say the truth to you. It is better for you that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper shall not come to you at all, but if I go, I shall send Him to you. And having come, He shall convict the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment, concerning sin because they do not believe in Me, concerning righteousness because I go to My Father and you see Me no more, concerning judgment because the ruler of this world is judged. I still have many words to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. But when He comes, the Spirit of the Truth, He shall guide you into all the truth. For He shall not speak from Himself, but whatever He hears He shall speak, and He shall announce to you what is to come. He shall esteem Me, for He shall take of what is Mine and announce it to you. All that the Father has is Mine. That is why I said that He takes from what is Mine and announces it to you. A little while, and you do not see Me, and again a little while, and you shall see Me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:27, John 6:27, “Do not labor for the food that is perishing, but for the food that is remaining to everlasting life, which the Son of Aḏam shall give you, for the Father, Yah, has set His seal on Him.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:27-30, “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; neither will any man snatch them out of My hand. My Father, Who gave them to Me, is greater than all; and no man is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand: I and My Father are in accord.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:9-31, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father, and how do you say, ‘Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak from Myself. But the Father who stays in Me does His works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, otherwise believe Me because of the works themselves. Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he shall do also. And greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My Name, that I shall do, in order that the Father might be esteemed in the Son. If you ask whatever in My Name, I shall do it. If you love Me, you shall guard My commands. (1Jn 5:2-3, 2 Jn 1:6."14:16) And I shall ask the Father, and He shall give you another Helper, to stay with you forever the Spirit of the Truth, whom the world is unable to receive, because it does not see Him or know Him. But you know Him, for He stays with you and shall be in you. I shall not leave you orphans – I am coming to you. Yet a little while, and the world no longer sees Me, but you shall see Me, because I live, and you shall live. In that day you shall know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. He who possesses My commands and guards them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and manifest Myself to him. Yehuḏah – not the one from Qerioth – said to Him, “Master, what has come about that You are about to manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world? [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me. These Words I have spoken to you while still with you. But the Helper, the Set-apart Spirit, whom the Father shall send in My Name, He shall teach you all, and remind you of all that I said to you. Peace I leave with you – My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming to you.’ If you did love Me, you would have rejoiced that I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it takes place, that when it does take place, you shall believe. I shall no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he possesses none at all in Me, but, in order for the world to know that I love the Father, and that as the Father commanded Me, so I am doing. Rise up, let us go from here.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 17:16-25, “They are not of the world, as I am not of the world. 17, “Set them apart in Your truth; Your Word is truth. 18, “As You sent Me into the world, I also sent them into the world. 19, “And for them I set Myself apart, so that they too might be set apart in truth. 20, “And I do not pray for these alone, but also for those believing in Me through their word, 21, so that they all might be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You, so that they too might be one in Us, so that the world might believe that You have sent Me. 22, “And the esteem which You gave Me I have given them, so that they might be one as We are one, 23, “I in them, and You in Me, so that they might be perfected into one, so that the world knows that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. 24, “Father, I desire that those whom You have given Me, might be with Me where I am, so that they see My esteem which You have given Me, because You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25, “O righteous Father, indeed the world did not know You, but I knew You, and these knew that You sent Me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 3:5, "He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
332
83
#62
I think you misunderstand...God does KNOW everything ! He has all knowledge IN SPIRIT/in Mind/given in stone/ on paper, whichever way He can communicate with man...but He could have no 'fleshly personal experience until He had a Son in the flesh. Jesus having the Mind/Spirit of His Father could then relay the human experience to God His Father....who until then KNEW EVRYthing only through Mind/Spirit which has not the feelings of the flesh.
GOD lacking KNOWledge is never in question !!! He knows everything to the finest detail but could not FEEL it as acutely till He had a SON.
Please PH, this is just as I see it today...tomorrow I might be corrected and know better, we grow and learn every day ...it's not a doctrine.
Did'nt have time to add...God does change His mind on occasion Ex 32 (after Moses pleaded with Him )
He is not as rigid as we think. The only thing God and Jesus will not move on are the Foundational Principles/Standards set up from the Beginning...of which the Sabbath is one and Jesus is Lord of as well as Cornerstone not to be moved !
Trad/Nom christians have done that and are now being told to 'put it back...or they will suffer the consequences when the true Christ returns !
 

Noblemen

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#63
noone to be father to?
exactly how many angels were with him in heaven again?
Ok check this out, did He create Angels or birth them.
There has to be a birthing to be a father.
 

Noblemen

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#64
Man that was a long post, I could only read a 1/3 my eyes were crossing thanks for your input.
 

Noblemen

Senior Member
Jan 14, 2018
498
149
43
#65
Ok here I go again with another thought; a few posters mentioned that God does not change.
I believe that, I think most of us would, the scriptures are clear on it, but here it is.

I don't see God changing, he is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
What I do see is how God handles people in different ages or dispensations, as changing.
I dont see him handling us in the dispensation of grace the way he handled those say under the law.
What he said to Abraham I can't connect it to our dispensation.
As pertaining to life now, I say all scripture is for us just not all written to us.
I would say each dispensation had a message, and we could probably call it the gospel for that time of God dealing with man.
Anyway just my thoughs, since you did so well on the last one haha here you go at another.
 
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L

lancaster

Guest
#66
I'm not going to argue the point, but there is evidence in the Bible that the "God of the Old Testament" is actually Jesus, not the Father. John declares that Isaiah saw Jesus, not the Father, on the throne.

I think that the idea of two different entities results from speculations rather than scholarship. The idea of Jesus throwing down fire and sulfur on Sodom doesn't square with "gentle Jesus, meek and mild". It's more comfortable to put the wrathful god at a distance, equate him with "the Father" Whom we cannot see, and embrace Jesus Who did not do such things while on earth. What is overlooked in such a view is that "He who has seen Me has seen the Father" and "I do what I see My Father doing". In other words, the two are one in character, will, and action.

The invisible unknowable Spirit of God in order to reveal Himself in creation reveals Himself as the spirit of Christ. John said in the first verse of John "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. The word that John was talking about as an example is Isiah 53 and many other scriptures where God reveals Himself. In John 1:14 John says and the word was made flesh and dwelled among us. There was no Son of God until Jesus was born. Most assuredly there is no such a thing as a trinity because God is one. The flesh was a veil to cover God as he interacted with the world; a temple not made with hands. Jesus said, "If you have seen me you have seen the Father."
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#68
Exodus 4:22-23
Jeremiah 31:9 (KJV).
Exo 4:22 Then you must tell him that I, the LORD, say, 'Israel is my first-born son. (Adopted son.)

Rom 9:4 They are God's people; he made them his children and revealed his glory to them; he made his covenants with them and gave them the Law; they have the true worship; they have received God's promises;

--------------------------------------------------

Jer 31:9 My people will return weeping, praying as I lead them back. I will guide them to streams of water, on a smooth road where they will not stumble. I am like a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my oldest son."

They will return to the Lord weeping for their past sins.

The LORD says, "When that time comes, the people of both Israel and Judah will come weeping, looking for me, their God. They will ask the way to Zion and then go in that direction. They will make an eternal covenant with me and never break it.
(Jer 50:4-5)

When they find Jesus, they will have found their God. (Father and Son are One, the Father is spirit, the son is flesh. They are One God.)

The eternal covenant is the New Covenant. Jesus the Good Shepherd is ready and waiting for them to return to the fold.
 
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beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,782
332
83
#69
Ok check this out, did He create Angels or birth them.
There has to be a birthing to be a father.

Does not a father BEGET rather than give birth ?
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
1,097
113
#70
Ok here I go again with another thought; a few posters mentioned that God does not change.
I believe that, I think most of us would, the scriptures are clear on it, but here it is.

I don't see God changing, he is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
What I do see is how God handles people in different ages or dispensations, as changing.
I dont see him handling us in the dispensation of grace the way he handled those say under the law.
What he said to Abraham I can't connect it to our dispensation.
As pertaining to life now, I say all scripture is for us just not all written to us.
I would say each dispensation had a message, and we could probably call it the gospel for that time of God dealing with man.
Anyway just my thoughs, since you did so well on the last one haha here you go at another.
Well you are right in that Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow and forever - but why are you right? Because, as the children's song goes, "the bible tells us so," right?! Smile. As in (Hebrews 13:8). Thus, as our premise, what does the bible say about our dispensation in Christ in association with Abraham of the Old Testament and the New Testament?

It is interesting to note that God said, "I am...the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." (Exodus 3:6). He said this in the Old Testament, and the Lord Jesus quoted it in the New Testament. "I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob," is quoted in the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. (Matthew 22:32; Mark 12:26; and Luke 20:37).

So now we can look at the different messages God has to include for us in each of these people Jesus tells us we will see in the Kingdom of God.. for each person ushers in a different reflection of God's heart here as well... I invite the study on this, but I do not have the time to get that far into it now...But time permitting maybe later... God bless you all - off to church I go!

2 Gods? NO! One God in three parts - Historically, we see different chapters of God's will being played out as well ... its called the Triune Godhead and it is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow! Remember there is a tomorrow as well yet to come both in His blessings and in His judgment. We would be well-served to learn from His history as we learn from history in Him!
 
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Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
5,947
1,691
113
#71
So, this is likely the reason (or one among others) why this particular verse stood out to me in study last night, why I was reminded of it this morning and prodded to remember its notation [in the OT, noting its contradiction to the common [mis]conception that God is not known as the Father in the OT}, and why I noticed this thread...

Isaiah 63:16 For You are our Father, though Abraham does not know us, And Israel does not recognize. You, O LORD, are our Father, Our Redeemer from of old is Your name."
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#72
So, this is likely the reason (or one among others) why this particular verse stood out to me in study last night, why I was reminded of it this morning and prodded to remember its notation [in the OT, noting its contradiction to the common [mis]conception that God is not known as the Father in the OT}, and why I noticed this thread...

Isaiah 63:16 For You are our Father, though Abraham does not know us, And Israel does not recognize. You, O LORD, are our Father, Our Redeemer from of old is Your name."
My God and your God, our redeemer and saviour. :)

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. (Isa 44:6 KJV)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,395
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#73
Let "US" make man in "OUR" IMAGE <--JESUS

All things were created by him and for him <--JESUS

In HEBREW you have....

a. Singular --->1
b. Dual --->pairs or 2
c. Plural --->3 or more

When GOD breathed into Adam the breath of LIFE....the word life is PLURAL (3)

Physical LIFE
INTELLECTUAL LIFE
SPIRITUAL LIFE

HEAVENLY FATHER --->INTELLECTUAL
THE SON ----> PHYSICAL
HOLY SPIRIT -->SPIRITUAL

LET "US" make man in "OUR" IMAGE
 
Feb 11, 2018
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0
0
#74
Israel is God's first-born.
Jesus is God's begotten son.
If Jesus had been in the beginning God wouldn't have called Israel His first born.
Exodus 4:22
Jeremiah 31:9
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#75
Israel is God's first-born.
Jesus is God's begotten son.
If Jesus had been in the beginning God wouldn't have called Israel His first born.
Exodus 4:22
Jeremiah 31:9
Pharaoh was the "son of Ra" (not literally) God told Moses to say to Pharaoh, Israel is my son. (not literally, it is about status) Julius Caesar was known as "son of god." (not literally, it is an idiom). If someone attempted to kill all Jews, they would be known as the "son of Hitler." George Washington was known as a "Son of the Soil" he was a farmer. You and I are the sons of God Rom 8:14 (not literally, it means we are important to God and so is Israel).

Jesus pre-existed his birth on earth. In the beginning he was the Word, and the Word was was God. (Joh 1:1) By him all things were created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. (Col 1:16-17)
 
Feb 11, 2018
56
0
0
#76
Yes I know that verse and it's also been studied out and that's not what it means.
If all things consist by Jesus then when he died everything would have fallen apart.
Remember the bible translators believed the trinity and Jesus in the beginning and so tried to include it in the word.
Also if Jesus had been in the beginning then Luke 1:35 is wrong.
Because the angel says "that holy thing which shall be born SHALL BE CALLED the son of God.
If Jesus was in the beginning then the angel should have said that holy thing which shall be born is called God's son.
Luke 1:32 Says he shall be great, not he is already great.
If Jesus was a spirit in the beginning then he cannot cease to be who He was in the beginning.
Because a spirit cannot die nor can it stop being who it is.
The bible says God is spirit and He is eternal.
Jesus being a spirit makes him eternal. Just like angels, demons, us. We all are spirit or have a spirit, and that spirit part is eternal.
If not then we have a God that can die which is false.
What was Jesus name before it was Jesus?
Also acts 2:22 Says Jesus was a man approved by God. How can Jesus be God and be approved by himself?
Numbers says God is not a man nor the son of man.
Yet Jesus is a man and the son of man.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
#77
Yes I know that verse and it's also been studied out and that's not what it means.
If all things consist by Jesus then when he died everything would have fallen apart.
Remember the bible translators believed the trinity and Jesus in the beginning and so tried to include it in the word.
Also if Jesus had been in the beginning then Luke 1:35 is wrong.
Because the angel says "that holy thing which shall be born SHALL BE CALLED the son of God.
If Jesus was in the beginning then the angel should have said that holy thing which shall be born is called God's son.
Luke 1:32 Says he shall be great, not he is already great.
If Jesus was a spirit in the beginning then he cannot cease to be who He was in the beginning.
Because a spirit cannot die nor can it stop being who it is.
The bible says God is spirit and He is eternal.
Jesus being a spirit makes him eternal. Just like angels, demons, us. We all are spirit or have a spirit, and that spirit part is eternal.
If not then we have a God that can die which is false.
What was Jesus name before it was Jesus?
Also acts 2:22 Says Jesus was a man approved by God. How can Jesus be God and be approved by himself?
Numbers says God is not a man nor the son of man.
Yet Jesus is a man and the son of man.
Jesus the creator came down from heaven Joh 6:38 and is there now upholding all things.

You are clearly against Christ and I won't be responding to your unbelief any more.
 
Feb 11, 2018
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#78
No actually not against Christ, just against the false doctrines of Jesus in the beginning and the trinity as they are of the spirit of the anti christ.
Only the antichrist sits in the temple as God claiming that he is God.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,373
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#79
Jesus the creator came down from heaven Joh 6:38 and is there now upholding all things.

You are clearly against Christ and I won't be responding to your unbelief any more.
Hello PS,

You are absolutely correct. Scripture states that Jesus was with the Father in the beginning and that He created all things.

"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and firstborn from among the dead, so that in all things He may have preeminence.For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross."

Not only that, but by DJ777 saying that Jesus is not God, it makes him a created being.

The Jews know what he as talking about when Jesus said "I and My Father are one." The Jews picked up stones to stone him saying, " We are not stoning you for any good work," they replied, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

DJ777 is on very thin ice here to say the least.