The Written Code Kills

[JaumeJ]

The written code kills that is to say, scripture without the Holy Spirit to teach is
quite lethal. The Bible without the guidance of the Holy Spirit is death.

It is seen posted in the forums every day.

People arguing that works are not necessary pointing to how it is written no one is saved
by works of the law, and this is true when understood.

Others may say we are to work to be saved, pointing out we are to do the works of God as is
written, and this too is true when understood.

The Holy Spirit teaches me I do not need to quote scripture directlyp at any given time
providing I have learned of God........I feel I know I have, though I will not ever know all scripture for
this honor and truth is only conferred to God Who is the origin of all truth.

I will never be saved by the Law, but I have been taught and understand it according to the teaching of
our Teacher, Jesus Christ, and I know it is to be obeyed, with understanding, yet people say it is a lie
even though Jesus, Himself, tells us to not only abey the law according to His teaching but has elaborated
on the law giving us even a new law.

We cannot DO anything to be saved, Jesus has done this already. We cannot augment His glorious sacrifice,
but we are commended to obey Him, and in so doing we are to do the workds given us by God. If we are not
willing to do the works given us by God we are not thanking Him in any manner nor observing His will for faith
without works is no faith at all.

I ask those who post murdrous Scripture that is, Scripture without understanding of the Holy Spirit to cease this pratice
and pray before posting. Yes, Scripture is good and life-giving in Christ when shared in Spirit and truth,however without
understanding it can only amount to a lie and self promotion.

Pleas do not use misunderstood scriptures to fight two sides of battles........this is not of
the HOY SPIRIT.

May God bless all who are in Jesus Christ and all who will be, amen.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Greetings JaumeJ,

The written code kills that is to say, scripture without the Holy Spirit to teach is
quite lethal. The Bible without the guidance of the Holy Spirit is death.

Here is the scripture:

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

The reference to "the letter kills" is referring to the law given to Moses and Israel. It kills because the sting of sin is death and the power of sin is the law. Not there is anything wrong with the law, for it is righteous and Holy, but the law kills because of our sinful nature. Regarding this Paul said:

"So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

"What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good."

We who are in Christ have died to the law and are saved by grace through faith and this not of our own selves, it is the gift of God.

We cannot DO anything to be saved, Jesus has done this already. We cannot augment His glorious sacrifice,
but we are commended to obey Him, and in so doing we are to do the works given us by God.

If we can't do anything to be saved as you claim above, then why are you also claiming that we are to keep His commands by observing the law? You are saying two different things here! The commandments that God wants us to do is not the commandments of the law, but the following:

"And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. - 1 John 3:19-23

So, the works of God are not the keeping of the law, but to believe in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ and to love one another.

Jesus appeared as a human being in order to keep the law because we were unable to. He met the righteous requirements of the law, satisfying it completely. Those who believe in Him are then credited with the Lord's fulfillment of the law. We are no longer under the law, but follow Christ and are led by the Spirit. Anyone who is trying to be saved by keeping the law has wander away from the grace that is in Christ.

 

[JaumeJ]

In part this response is oblique at best. As for the works, we are given workds from God as stated plainly.

We do not refuse works of god for these ae teh talents of gold (faith) given us by Gdo, Himself. When we do not increase thhat gift it is because there is no faith.......

 

[JaumeJ]

The OP is not in reference to any brother or sister using Scripture with understand of the Holy Spirit as stated in the OP.......

 

[p_rehbein]

Good thoughts in the OP........

 

[Ahwatukee]

In part this response is oblique at best. As for the works, we are given workds from God as stated plainly.

We do not refuse works of god for these ae teh talents of gold (faith) given us by Gdo, Himself. When we do not increase thhat gift it is because there is no faith.......

Yes, but we are not doing those things for salvation, which Christ already provided by having faith in Him. Do you understand that when you bring in any other requirement along side of Christ's sacrifice, it is like saying that His sacrifice was insufficient.

We do good works to glorify God and by doing so we are also building up our treasures in heaven. But, if anyone attempts to obtain salvation by good works, he will fail, because that person is not trusting in Christ, but in his own efforts. I would say the same thing to you as Paul said to the Galatians who were turning back to the law for salvation:

"You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[SUP]a[/SUP]4Have you experienced[SUP]b[/SUP] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? "

There were some who throwing the Galatians into confusion, leading them back into trusting in the law for salvation, which prompted Paul to write the above. They believed in what they heard, Jesus Christ crucified, buried and resurrected, for their salvation and were turning back to the keeping of the law. If what I said is oblique to you, then you are just not understanding. You start teaching that people are to keep the law and you are like those who were distorting God's free gift of salvation. It's no wonder Jesus says, "not everyone who says 'Lord, Lord' will inherit the kingdom of God. We should not be trusting in our works as a means of obtaining or maintaining salvation.

The law has been fulfilled on behalf of the believer and should be trusting in Christ's finished word as their salvation. I understand the scripture very well, and I am telling that you should be teaching the keeping of the law as a means of salvation. We do good works to glorify God not to obtain salvation.

I would suggest that you go back and read Romans and Galatians regarding the law vs. Grace.

What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.

If you teach keeping the commandments of the law as a means of salvation, then you are leading people away from Christ, not towards Him.

 

[JaumeJ]

Once more, my post is sayiing exactly that we do not do works for salvation, and it goes on to say Jesus has done this for us. Furthermore it goes on to say people who do not understand the written code use both sides to endless feigned debates.

If these people wo argue that works do not save a person whether by the law or not, and others that they do, they are not understandig what is inthe Word.

Again, faith without works is not faith.

Now the following s very important to actually undersgtand and not argue in a parrot-like manner.....we cannot save ourselves at all, not by works of the laww or offerings of works from ourselves. This does not mean we are given permission to be disob edient.

All who argue we do not need to obey the law are not hearing and understanding but they are adept at repeating we cannot save ourselves by works of the law.......

This is plain to understand........we are saved only by Jesus Christ Who teaches us to obey the law according to His Mastery..

Yes, but we are not doing those things for salvation, which Christ already provided by having faith in Him. Do you understand that when you bring in any other requirement along side of Christ's sacrifice, it is like saying that His sacrifice was insufficient.

We do good works to glorify God and by doing so we are also building up our treasures in heaven. But, if anyone attempts to obtain salvation by good works, he will fail, because that person is not trusting in Christ, but in his own efforts. I would say the same thing to you as Paul said to the Galatians who were turning back to the law for salvation:

"You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?[SUP]a[/SUP]4Have you experienced[SUP]b[/SUP] so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? "

There were some who throwing the Galatians into confusion, leading them back into trusting in the law for salvation, which prompted Paul to write the above. They believed in what they heard, Jesus Christ crucified, buried and resurrected, for their salvation and were turning back to the keeping of the law. If what I said is oblique to you, then you are just not understanding. You start teaching that people are to keep the law and you are like those who were distorting God's free gift of salvation. It's no wonder Jesus says, "not everyone who says 'Lord, Lord' will inherit the kingdom of God. We should not be trusting in our works as a means of obtaining or maintaining salvation.

The law has been fulfilled on behalf of the believer and should be trusting in Christ's finished word as their salvation. I understand the scripture very well, and I am telling that you should be teaching the keeping of the law as a means of salvation. We do good works to glorify God not to obtain salvation.

I would suggest that you go back and read Romans and Galatians regarding the law vs. Grace.

What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.

If you teach keeping the commandments of the law as a means of salvation, then you are leading people away from Christ, not towards Him.

 

[p_rehbein]

Once more, my post is sayiing exactly that we do not do works for salvation, and it goes on to say Jesus has done this for us. Furthermore it goes on to say people who do not understand the written code use both sides to endless feigned debates.

If these people wo argue that works do not save a person whether by the law or not, and others that they do, they are not understandig what is inthe Word.

Again, faith without works is not faith.

Now the following s very important to actually undersgtand and not argue in a parrot-like manner.....we cannot save ourselves at all, not by works of the laww or offerings of works from ourselves. This does not mean we are given permission to be disob edient.

All who argue we do not need to obey the law are not hearing and understanding but they are adept at repeating we cannot save ourselves by works of the law.......

This is plain to understand........we are saved only by Jesus Christ Who teaches us to obey the law according to His Mastery..

You can say this a thousand times in the largest font possible, and they will STILL not hear you....... If they see anything that even resembles works.......that will be all they see......brain freeze sets I suppose.

just saying

 

[JaumeJ]

Here is another that is in the Holy Scripture to be understood by the HOly Spirit, yet it goes on ignore for those same.......

Faith without works is dead........and this too may be in the largest font, but being so large it will be too much for them to see.....and so it goes....quoting LInda Elerbee (Ellerby")

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

The written code kills in this sense:

By the written code, I am not a murderer and not an adulterer and I have always kept those commands all my life, even before I met Him I kept them. This leads to thanking God I am not like these other men who murder and commit adultery. I am judging these men by their outward behavior, that they are sinning, and of course, they are if they do these things. So I tell them that they have to repent because no murderer will be allowed in heaven, as everyone knows.

But by the spirit of the words, of these laws about murder and adultery, I am guilty and have done the same things I just judged other men for. Because I have stored up anger and resentment in my heart and I have had impure thoughts about someone other than my spouse.

This is what the apostle meant when he gave a long list, including murderer, and said they who do these things won't inherit or be allowed in. Then he said, you may think you can judge them, but you who judge them, why do you do the same things?

But he was talking not to the unsaved but to saved men. He wasn't chiding them for shooting people or for hopping into the beds of other peoples husbands and wives. He was talking to people who should be able to understand the spirit of the word and the laws and so be able to judge their own selves rightly and not hypocritically. But they were judging others for outward behavior that they then committed inwardly. And we know that one day, a light so bright will shine that all of the inward things will be seen and everything hidden will be brought into that light.

So if you can't see well enough to judge yourself inwardly and you judge someone else outwardly for the same things you do inwardly, though hidden from men, your judgement of yourself is not correct. And if you are not able to judge yourself rightly, will you judge others?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

It is using unequal scales to judge others outwardly for what you do inwardly and God detests unequal weights.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Faith without works is dead...

Works is a result of faith and the indwelling of the Spirit, not a requirement for salvation. A good example of salvation by grace through the belief of the gospel, is when Peter was sent to Cornelius' house and as Peter was still speaking, the Holy Spirit fell upon all who heard the message, and that before being Baptized or performing any works or by promising to keep the law.

We also have the example of the simplicity of salvation, when the man crucified next to Christ said, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom." And Jesus said, "today you will be with me in paradise." The man could not come down off the cross to be baptized or to do any good works, but simply believed Christ to be Lord and was saved. There were some Pharisee believers who were teaching that in order to be saved the Gentile believers had to be circumcised and keep the works of the law and this is what the answer was regarding this:

"Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

The answer:

"God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Believers should be looking to Christ as the One who provided salvation for us, not trusting in our own works.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Those who truly follow Christ will do all of the righteousness required by the law. Every jot and tittle of the law is satisfied by walking in the spirit. That righteous conduct may not exactly match what the letter requires, but that is unimportant because the letter was in part and the fullness has come in Christ.

Imagine that you are parents who want their children to act in a certain way. Call it behavior Z. The children are too immature to fully understand behavior Z, so the parents structure their lives with rules A, B and C, which forbid behavior X that is antithetical to behavior Z. As the children grow and learn, behavior Z becomes their nature. The parents then set rules A, B and C aside because they have accomplished their purpose and are no longer needed. The actions dictated by those rules may still be done to some degree, but exact conformance to the rules is irrelevant because behavior Z was the goal, not following rules.

 

[JaumeJ]

Yes, those who are indeed renewed in Jesus do not find obeying a work.

It is no longer works to respect andhonor your parents. The sameholds true for all of the commandments for they are all found in the great laws of love.

Now if you believe you are inChrist and doing the above is works to you, I am afraid you are not yet in Christ. As for the law, if you do not understand it from Jesus, and you are stillstuck in believe the y11 or 613 laws can be obeyed, you do not know what Christ has fulfileld.....Very few of the laws remain that are to be obeyed, and they too, just as the commandmnts are ajoy to the renewd soul. Those who think they know otherwise are seklf deluded.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Those who truly follow Christ will do all of the righteousness required by the law. Every jot and tittle of the law is satisfied by walking in the spirit. That righteous conduct may not exactly match what the letter requires, but that is unimportant because the letter was in part and the fullness has come in Christ.

Imagine that you are parents who want their children to act in a certain way. Call it behavior Z. The children are too immature to fully understand behavior Z, so the parents structure their lives with rules A, B and C, which forbid behavior X that is antithetical to behavior Z. As the children grow and learn, behavior Z becomes their nature. The parents then set rules A, B and C aside because they have accomplished their purpose and are no longer needed. The actions dictated by those rules may still be done to some degree, but exact conformance to the rules is irrelevant because behavior Z was the goal, not following rules.

This is very good...!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Yes, those who are indeed renewed in Jesus do not find obeying a work.

It is no longer works to respect andhonor your parents. The sameholds true for all of the commandments for they are all found in the great laws of love.

Now if you believe you are inChrist and doing the above is works to you, I am afraid you are not yet in Christ. As for the law, if you do not understand it from Jesus, and you are stillstuck in believe the y11 or 613 laws can be obeyed, you do not know what Christ has fulfileld.....Very few of the laws remain that are to be obeyed, and they too, just as the commandmnts are ajoy to the renewd soul. Those who think they know otherwise are seklf deluded.

I'm going to try to explain a different mindset to you so you can understand someone thinking what confuses you as to how they could think it.

I know to hold anger and resentment in my heart is murder. Will I then worry over whether I am honoring my parents? I'm murdering! Does anyone who murders honor his parents anyway? If a child murders, it dishonors his parents! I definitely want to obey and not murder. But the harder I try to give up murder, resentment, anger - the worse I seem to become. So I try harder to not be that way inside. Then someone cuts me off in traffic and I'm so angry I could just explode. So there, I've murdered again. I find the command VERY burdensome because no matter how hard I try to keep it, I keep failing at some point.

If I am to be clean inside, there is no way I can do it in my own strength. It will take a miracle to make me good inside. So I stop working to obey that law and I go to Him and say, if this is ever to happen that I stop my murdering, You will have to do something. So I stop working to keep the law and I start trusting Him to fix me, which He does begin to do.

So when I tried to keep the law, it was burdensome. When I stopped trying to keep it and trusted Him, it became not burdensome because He began to fix my heart and I then found the law to be not burdensome.

Does that help you at all to see the mindset you find confusing?

 

[JaumeJ]

You will nave need to excuse me because I am so confused, though I understand what you have posted.

Yes, Jesus does teach to the hypocrites if you have hatred in your heart for a brother you are already guilty of murder...I knew that, but being so confused it seems you have not read my op or other posts in this the thread I began this morning.

Now if you believe it out of love to label an elder as confused in the presence of others who beieve Jesus, then you seem to believe it to be good in the sight of the Fasther also.

It is too latwe for you to take me aside, that is send a pm, so i will leave you to contiue in your most holy endeavor. Meanwhiel I will share truth, even the truth you have indicated I am too confused to be aware of.

Since you are not confused, it probably will do not good to advise you to read my op and other posts today, thereofe ti will do you little if any good to post directly to me, a confused person who has been reading the Word for a half century. Oh, that is almost your age... Thank you for your critique. God bless you with true uinderstanding in Jesus christ, amen.

I'm going to try to explain a different mindset to you so you can understand someone thinking what confuses you as to how they could think it.

I know to hold anger and resentment in my heart is murder. Will I then worry over whether I am honoring my parents? I'm murdering! Does anyone who murders honor his parents anyway? If a child murders, it dishonors his parents! I definitely want to obey and not murder. But the harder I try to give up murder, resentment, anger - the worse I seem to become. So I try harder to not be that way inside. Then someone cuts me off in traffic and I'm so angry I could just explode. So there, I've murdered again. I find the command VERY burdensome because no matter how hard I try to keep it, I keep failing at some point.

If I am to be clean inside, there is no way I can do it in my own strength. It will take a miracle to make me good inside. So I stop working to obey that law and I go to Him and say, if this is ever to happen that I stop my murdering, You will have to do something. So I stop working to keep the law and I start trusting Him to fix me, which He does begin to do.

So when I tried to keep the law, it was burdensome. When I stopped trying to keep it and trusted Him, it became not burdensome because He began to fix my heart and I then found the law to be not burdensome.

Does that help you at all to see the mindset you find confusing?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is no longer works to respect andhonor your parents. The sameholds true for all of the commandments for they are all found in the great laws of love.

Now if you believe you are inChrist and doing the above is works to you, I am afraid you are not yet in Christ. As for the law, if you do not understand it from Jesus, and you are stillstuck in believe the y11 or 613 laws can be obeyed, you do not know what Christ has fulfileld.....Very few of the laws remain that are to be obeyed, and they too, just as the commandmnts are ajoy to the renewd soul. Those who think they know otherwise are seklf deluded.

I dunno. Honoring one's parents can be huge work. The law says honor mother and father, but Jesus told people to do things that most people would find highly objectionable. Like abandoning one's father to do his fishing business alone; like not attending a father's funeral, like ignoring a parent's demands to do something that would violate one's conscience. Under the law those things could possibly be punishable by death. And imagine having parents that have a dysfunctional relationship. Is honoring them never rocking the boat and offending them, or is it confronting the iniquity in an attempt to put an end to familial sin? Honoring one's parents can be a highly complex, very difficult issue.

 

[Blain]

The written code kills that is to say, scripture without the Holy Spirit to teach is
quite lethal. The Bible without the guidance of the Holy Spirit is death.

It is seen posted in the forums every day.

People arguing that works are not necessary pointing to how it is written no one is saved
by works of the law, and this is true when understood.

Others may say we are to work to be saved, pointing out we are to do the works of God as is
written, and this too is true when understood.

The Holy Spirit teaches me I do not need to quote scripture directlyp at any given time
providing I have learned of God........I feel I know I have, though I will not ever know all scripture for
this honor and truth is only conferred to God Who is the origin of all truth.

I will never be saved by the Law, but I have been taught and understand it according to the teaching of
our Teacher, Jesus Christ, and I know it is to be obeyed, with understanding, yet people say it is a lie
even though Jesus, Himself, tells us to not only abey the law according to His teaching but has elaborated
on the law giving us even a new law.

We cannot DO anything to be saved, Jesus has done this already. We cannot augment His glorious sacrifice,
but we are commended to obey Him, and in so doing we are to do the workds given us by God. If we are not
willing to do the works given us by God we are not thanking Him in any manner nor observing His will for faith
without works is no faith at all.

I ask those who post murdrous Scripture that is, Scripture without understanding of the Holy Spirit to cease this pratice
and pray before posting. Yes, Scripture is good and life-giving in Christ when shared in Spirit and truth,however without
understanding it can only amount to a lie and self promotion.

Pleas do not use misunderstood scriptures to fight two sides of battles........this is not of
the HOY SPIRIT.

May God bless all who are in Jesus Christ and all who will be, amen.

If I was able to rep you several times at once I would Yes often times there are two sides of the same coin such as the works and salvation thing you speak of and they are argued against themselves as if they are two separate things but they are only understood when you understand they intertwine with each other you cannot have one without the other. And yes just as I always say simply because you show scripture doesn't make you right. The scriptures are not to be treated with such disregard as to be used so casually and taken out of context so easily just to prove a point or to just show your right in an argument. The word of God is not a toy and we should be careful as to how we use it and treat it.

 

[JaumeJ]

I love my parents very much, and always will. I did not honor them as a child as I should have because of the divorces and the neglect to the point of hunger, but I truly love them and loved them when I was a bit older and I pray to god they are both awaiting in Heaven, rather in the hope of Jesus, for all the family to be reunited.

We are to love our enemies, how much more should we love our family as given us ony by the FAther. Yes, the true family is eternal, but loving our parents, even if they were bad to us, is actually a very easy thing to do, in in so doing we do honor them.