Who are the 'Gentiles'?

[Cup-of-Ruin]

The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia

"The primary meaning of Ashkenaz and Ashkenazim in Hebrew is Germany and Germans. This may be due to the fact that the home of the ancient ancestors of the Germans is Media, which is the Biblical Ashkenaz...Krauss is of the opinion that the early medieval ages the khazars were sometimes referred to as Ashkenazim...About 92% of all Jews or approximately 14,5000,00 are Ashkenazim."

The Bible

The Bible relates that the Khazar (Ashkenaz) Jews were/are the sons of Japheth not Shem.

"Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth; and unto them were the sons born after the flood. The sons of Japheth;...the sons of Gomer; Ashekenaz..." Genesis 10:1-3

Therefore the Bible proves that the Ashkenazim Jews who make up 92% of all modern Jews according to official Jewish records are descendants of Japheth and Gomer, and not Shem so therefore cannot be truthfully nammed 'semites'...

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Israel are His sheep.

1 Kings 22:17

"And he said, I saw Israel scattered upon the hills, as sheep that have not a shepherd: and the Lord said, these have no master; let them return every man to his house of peace."

Ps. 74:1

"O God, why hast thou cast us off for ever? why doth thine anger smoke against the sheep of thy pasture."

Ps. 78:52

"But made his own people to go forth like sheep, and guided them in the wilderness like a flock."

Ps. 79:13

"So we they people and sheep of thy pasture will give thee thanks for ever: we will show forth thy praise to all generations."

Ps. 95:7

"For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and his sheep of his hand. To day if ye hear his voice."

Ps. 100:3

"Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he who hath made us, and not we ourselves: we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture."

Isa. 53:6

"All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."

Jer. 23:1

"Woe be unto the pastures that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! Saith the Lord."

Jer. 50:17

"Israel is a scattered sheep: the lions have driven him away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzer king of Babylon hath broken his bones."

Ezek. 34:6

"My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them."

Ezek. 34:11

For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep and seek them out."

Ezek. 34:12

"As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day."

Matt. 9:36

"But when He saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd."

Matt. 10:6

"But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Matt. 10:16

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves; be ye therefore wise as serpents, and as harmless as doves."

Matt. 25:33

"And he shall set sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left."

Matt. 26:31

Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad,"

John 10:3

"To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice; and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out."

John 10:4

"And when he put forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for the know his voice."

John 10:7

"Then Jesus said unto them, verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep."

John 10:11

"I am the good shepherd: the goo shepherd giveth his life for the sheep."

John 10:16

"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd."

John 10:27

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."

Rom. 8:36

"As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."

Heb. 13:20

"Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covernant."

1 Pet. 2:25

"FOR YE WERE AS SHEEP GOING ASTRAY: BUT ARE NOW RETURNED UNTO THE SHEPHERD AND BISHOP OF YOUR SOULS."

 

[Arel]

*shrug* I won't argue with you. If you want to be "Israel" so bad, fine by me. Within the first five books of the bible, which is called the Torah, there are 613 commandments set down by G-d that He told the Israelites to do.

If you want to be "Israel" so bad, get started. Abstain from food that is not kosher. Don't shave your beard. Don't cut your hair at the temples. I'll see you in synagogue next Friday night.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

*shrug* I won't argue with you. If you want to be "Israel" so bad, fine by me. Within the first five books of the bible, which is called the Torah, there are 613 commandments set down by G-d that He told the Israelites to do.

If you want to be "Israel" so bad, get started. Abstain from food that is not kosher. Don't shave your beard. Don't cut your hair at the temples. I'll see you in synagogue next Friday night.

Israel are under the new Covenant and all became Christian as did the House of Judah, Hebrews 8 - the new Covenenat - the everlasting covenant of the blood of Jesus.

 

[Arel]

Israel are under the new Covenant and all became Christian as did the House of Judah, Hebrews 8 - the new Covenenat - the everlasting covenant of the blood of Jesus.

No, I understand perfectly. You have this "new covenant", and you're under the Abrahamic covenant. You want to call yourself "Israel" and get all the blessings and protections that come from being "Israel", the Chosen People of G-d, yet you don't want to keep Israel's end of the covenant.

You want something for nothing.

I get it. May G-d show mercy to you, liars and pretenders.

 

[Mobius]

Yeah, I too am well beyond wanting to debate with one who has proven himself to be a deceiver, and usurper, and no true follower of Messiah.

I mean, look at the top post of this page right here, and you'll see that Cartman_of_ruin continues to rely on erroneous definitions, WELL after you've debunked them for him.

This, friends and brethren, is what we call "Jew envy." Instead of wrestling with why his people (whoever they may be) were not chosen to be G-d's firstborn son (Exo 4:22) these racist types simply try to rewrite what scripture says, so that they can try to claim all the blessings of Isreal, without actually having to fulfill the commitments to doing all that G-d asks OF the Israelites.

And didn't I predict this very thing would happen, when first I came to this forum?

Didn't I warn you all, that the reason this deceiver would NOT go into detail about his beliefs, is that he knew as well as I did, that if he SHOULD give more details about the fulness of his belief system, that even those NOT as intimately familiar with racist theologies as I am, would easily be able to identify him as a proponent of racist theology?

And let me tell you, brothers and sisters, I am SO glad that you DO recognize it for what is is. Unfortunately, within certain circles, like young malcontents (which seem to be increasing) these sorts of theories can tend to be quite popular.

NOW then, I would put forth the question of what can be done about these attempts to spread racist theology in our midst? I'm generally not a fan of censorship, but I am also congizent of the fact that there seem to be many present who are young in body, or in the Spirit, and may be susceptible to such misinterpretations. But of course there are other options, such ignoring him en masse.

As you ponder these things, I would remind you of that which he has left out of this thread-

Not only does he consider those claiming to be Jews or Israelites to be doing so falsely, he has actually referred to them as the synagogues of satan, citing Rev 2:2.

Additionally, he has repeatedly denied requests for clarification on other matters on which most racists tend to agree... such as whether the holocaust in WW2 really happened, and what number he would estimate were killed therein.

I believe there is a very significant reason for these glaring ommisions.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

No, I understand perfectly. You have this "new covenant", and you're under the Abrahamic covenant. You want to call yourself "Israel" and get all the blessings and protections that come from being "Israel", the Chosen People of G-d, yet you don't want to keep Israel's end of the covenant.

You want something for nothing.

I get it. May G-d show mercy to you, liars and pretenders.

Salvation is free gift, it's God's grace you see, you cannot do anything to earn it.

 

[Arel]

Salvation is free gift, it's God's grace you see, you cannot do anything to earn it.

It was never about earning salvation. Judaism teaches salvation by the grace of G-d, as does the Tanakh (what you call the "old testament").

 

[Definition_Christ]

It was never about earning salvation. Judaism teaches salvation by the grace of G-d, as does the Tanakh (what you call the "old testament").

Isn't it true 247 of the 613 laws concern the ceremonial and cultic laws of the tabernacle? You are saying you still make animal sacrifices right? Do you really follow the law?

 

[Mobius]

No, the generally recognized 613 mitzvot can be broken down into 248 (often falsely reported as 247) things we are to do (mitzvot aseh) and 365 things we are NOT to do (mitzvot lo ta'aseh).


If memory serves, this distinction comes from Maimonides, AKA the Rambam.

May I ask what you mean by "cultic" laws ?

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

No, the generally recognized 613 mitzvot can be broken down into 248 (often falsely reported as 247) things we are to do (mitzvot aseh) and 365 things we are NOT to do (mitzvot lo ta'aseh).


If memory serves, this distinction comes from Maimonides, AKA the Rambam.

May I ask what you mean by "cultic" laws ?

As according to the Talmud, that is what you follow, the Talmudic laws right?

 

[Mobius]

I wasn't talking to you. As an openly practicing racist, I would fully expect that if given the opportunity to speak at length on the Talmud, you would pick out and distort some dozen or so passages from the Talmud, and ignore the immense volume of wisdom contained therein, much like you're doing with the Bible throughout this thread.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

I wasn't talking to you. As an openly practicing racist, I would fully expect that if given the opportunity to speak at length on the Talmud, you would pick out and distort some dozen or so passages from the Talmud, and ignore the immense volume of wisdom contained therein, much like you're doing with the Bible throughout this thread.

Can you please refrain from calling me a 'racist', I have made no racist comments whatsoever, neither do I teach any racist doctrine.

 

[Mobius]

Mainstream Judaism and mainstream Christianity have no use for race. In both such systems, race is 100% irrelevant to who are G-d's people. Even though Judaism is commonly misinterpreted in racial or ethnic terms, because Israel STARTED from a single family, as long as we have record, converts have been not only accepted into the flock, but it is forbidden to even speak of the fact that are converts, and not born as Jews.

This does not fit what you are preaching here, when you speak of lost tribes of Isreal or Judah, and even believers and non-believers, in racial or ethnic terms.

Therefore, to the rest of us, this IS a racist way of looking at things. Maybe like Matt Hale, you prefer "racialist" to "racist" I dunno... if so, feel free to substitute the one term for the other, as I see no disctinction between the two.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Mainstream Judaism and mainstream Christianity have no use for race. In both such systems, race is 100% irrelevant to who are G-d's people. Even though Judaism is commonly misinterpreted in racial or ethnic terms, because Israel STARTED from a single family, as long as we have record, converts have been not only accepted into the flock, but it is forbidden to even speak of the fact that are converts, and not born as Jews.

I think your getting mixed up with the military state of modern day 'Israel' with God's Israel, Isarel are a people who have been given a new name and new lands, and are many nations today, they are under the new covenant which is written on their hearts and put in their minds, the sheep of the flock are saved as Jesus said, He is the Great Shepherd, the God of the OT Covenant is the same God as the NT Covenant, it was necessary that Judah be saved first and then the Gentiles of Israel and then the Gospel was to be taken to the whole world, which Christians have done. Judaism is not Biblical it is derived from the tradition of the elders, an oral tradition from Babylon, that is why Rabbi's follow the Talmud, which is their holy book. many rabbi's have no problem at all with what I say, in fact they agree, I quote many Jewish sources.

 

[Arel]

Isn't it true 247 of the 613 laws concern the ceremonial and cultic laws of the tabernacle? You are saying you still make animal sacrifices right? Do you really follow the law?

"Cultic" laws?

Yes, I do follow the Torah to the best of my ability. I fail, but that's okay. As for sacrifices, I don't make animal sacrifices because we don't have the Temple. When the Temple is rebuilt, sacrifices will resume.

 

[Definition_Christ]

"Cultic" laws?

Yes, I do follow the Torah to the best of my ability. I fail, but that's okay. As for sacrifices, I don't make animal sacrifices because we don't have the Temple. When the Temple is rebuilt, sacrifices will resume.

Ah okay. Fair enough. Not sure if you care or not but this is where the average Christian stands on making animal sacrifices.

Hebrews 10
1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“ Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them ” (which are offered according to the law),
9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second.
10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,
13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool.
14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”
17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

Not sure if you would agree Christ was the final sacrifice being "The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!" -John the Baptist.. But that is where the average Christian stands. Anyway, hopefully I can get your thoughts on that?

 

[Arel]

Ah okay. Fair enough. Not sure if you care or not but this is where the average Christian stands on making animal sacrifices.

Hebrews 10
1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“ Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them ” (which are offered according to the law),
9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second.
10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,
13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool.
14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”
17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

Not sure if you would agree Christ was the final sacrifice, but that is where the average Christian stands. Anyway, hopefully I can get your thoughts on that?

Actually, to be completely honest, I am neutral on the idea of sacrifices and where Yeshua's place in sacrifice is. I haven't found, in all my research of the Scriptures and in all the guidance I've asked G-d for, where I stand on the issue yet.

But as far as the verse about there being a reminder of sins every day...personally, I don't think we SHOULD forget our sins. I can expound on that, if you'd like.

 

[Definition_Christ]

Actually, to be completely honest, I am neutral on the idea of sacrifices and where Yeshua's place in sacrifice is. I haven't found, in all my research of the Scriptures and in all the guidance I've asked G-d for, where I stand on the issue yet.

But as far as the verse about there being a reminder of sins every day...personally, I don't think we SHOULD forget our sins. I can expound on that, if you'd like.

I see, yeah Yeshua being the final sacrifice. No I understand what you mean we should remember our sins, maybe not by the particular sin but at least know it's the reason why Jesus had to go and die on the Cross.. To make the final sacrifice for our sins.

 

[Arel]

I see, yeah Yeshua being the final sacrifice. No I understand what you mean we should remember our sins, maybe not by the particular sin but at least know it's the reason why Jesus had to go and die on the Cross.. To make the final sacrifice for our sins.

That's not what I meant by remembering our sins

There's actually a Christian pastor my dad listens to, and I do too, because I really like him...don't agree with everything he says, but he's a man of G-d no less. His name is Voddie Baucham. He has a good sermon that talks about it called "Brokenness".

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=98F1FE2A5227BB3E&search_query=Brokenness+Voddie