Who are the 'Gentiles'?

[Definition_Christ]

That's not what I meant by remembering our sins

There's actually a Christian pastor my dad listens to, and I do too, because I really like him...don't agree with everything he says, but he's a man of G-d no less. His name is Voddie Baucham. He has a good sermon that talks about it called "Brokenness".

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=98F1FE2A5227BB3E&search_query=Brokenness+Voddie

Okay cool, I'll check it out/ Thanks God bless.

 

[Arel]

Hey, no problem man. Always willing to help people understand what I believe

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Bringing this thread back up due to some questions in other threads.

The second time 'Jews' are mentioned in the Bible is II Kings 25:25; now we have it in II Kings chapter 25 that Judah was taken into captivity; "And the king of Babylon smote them, and slew them at Riblah in the land of Hamath. So Judah was carried away out of their land."

But the people that remained in the land of Judah, were not the tribe of Judah, because the tribe of Judah was taken into captivity as we are told, so who are these other people, well, they were called "Jews" they were living in the land of Judah but they were not Judah so they were called 'Jews' which is translated from the Chaldean word Yehuwdiy, this is a Chaldee word, it's not derived from Hebrew, and this is because the Edomites who were conquered by Judah and those Edomites spoke Chaldean, they became subjects of the land owned by the tribe of Judah which was known as the southern kingdom of Judea and the capital was Jerusalem.

II Kings 25:22 "And as for the people that remained in the land of Judah, whom king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon had left, even over them he made Gedaliah the son of Ahikam, the son of Saphan, ruler."

So Gedaliah was made governor when the tribe of Judah was absent in captivity in Babylon, so who was still in Judea? it was not empty, well it was made up of people who were subjects and slaves of Judah from different tribes like the Edomites who were called 'Jews' and Chaldees, and it says this in II Kings 25:25;

"But it came to pass in the seventh month, that Ishmael the son of Nethaniah, the son of Elishama, of the royal seed, came and ten men with him, and he smote Gedaliah, that he died and the Jews and the Chaldees that were with him."

So here we see while Judah was in captivity, the Jews and Chaldees were in Jerusalem and the land belonging to Judah, that were never taken in captivity, John 8:33, the descendants of these Jews tell Jesus that they were never in bondage, not in Egypt or Babylon, yet they are the 'seed of Abraham', this is because they are Abraham's seed via Esau who is Edom, as Esau was renamed Edom.


Now, when we move onto Ezra we see the Jews mentioned in the letter by Artaxerxes, and in the chapter previous in Ezra, Judah is called Judah, then in the letter they are called 'Jews', why is this? Because the letter is written in Syrian which is Aramiac which is a derivative of Chaldee.

"and the writing of the letter was written in the Syrian tongue, and interpreted in the Syrian tongue" Ezra 4:7


And in this tongue Judeans are called Yehuwdiy, because its Chaldean language, and as the Bible says you interpret it in this manner, the king in the letter refers to Judah in his own tongue, but does not differentiate between the various Judeans, to Artaxerxes they are all Judeans or yehuwdiy which is only meaning those belonging to that land, again you colud be Edomite, Chaldee, Moabite and still be a 'Jew' that lived in the land belongning to the tribe of Judah.

 

[ChristsArmorBearer]

Anyone who is not a descendant of Abraham's grandson and Isaac's son Jacob is considered Gentile seeing as it is Jacob who the Lord changed his name to "ISRAEL".

 

[shad]

Anyone who is not a descendant of Abraham's grandson and Isaac's son Jacob is considered Gentile seeing as it is Jacob who the Lord changed his name to "ISRAEL".

Interested what you might think. When God called Abraham out of the Ur of the Chaldees / Gen 11:31, was Abram and his family of Gentile stock and nothing more than a pagan family that worshiped false gods? If he was of Gentile stock does that mean that God called a people for Himself through a pagan Gentile who believed God? If Abram was a Hebrew when and how did he become one in / Gen 14:13 and wasn't Isaac the child of promise? Wouldn't that make Isaac a Hebrew by birth and Abram one by God's choice? If Abram was a Gentile and all the families would come under his blessing, that would make him the father of our faith as much as any family on the earth, including the Hebrew / Jews / Israel.

God choose Israel to bring the message of God's salvation to the world, but when they failed to do so and rebelled, God scattered them throughout the earth, sent His Son to be crucified to make both Jew and Gentile one through the blood of the cross and His body / Eph 2:11-19. The Gentiles were graffed in during the time of Israel's unbelief / Rom 11. There is no prophesy that the Gentiles will be broken off for their unbelief even though Paul makes reference to it as a warning / Rom 11;21,22. The time of the Gentiles will come in and be fulfilled / Rom 11:25, Lk 21:24 and many will be saved, then the time of Jacob's trouble will come / Jer 30:7 and all of Israel will be saved when the Deliverer turns away ungodliness from Jacob / Rom 11:26.

Abraham is the father of not only Israel but of the Gentiles also ...

Rom 4:9-18

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

 

[RightKnowledge]

Greetings,

"Gentile" is a word that is commonly misunderstood by christians. It doesn't mean what you think it means! When you learn what the Bible really is saying with the Greek word ethnos which is commonly translated "Gentile" then your entire concept of what Christianity means will be wonderfully uplifted and changed.

In most English Bibles the Greek word ethnos is translated as either "gentile" or as "nation". A few centuries ago the English word had the same meaning as the Greek word "ethnos", but today the meaning has been perverted to mean the exact opposite of it's original meaning. Unless one understands what Jesus and the N.T. writers meant by the word ethnos one cannot fully understand the message of Jesus. This is critically important for any christian to consider.

Gentile and nation are English words used for the Greek word "ethnos", which is the root word for our English word ethnic. But Gentile is understood by most people whether Christian or not to mean today as non-Jew. Many modern Bible Dictionaries can be found to descibe the word as; "Gentile: All nations of the world other than Jews." But for anybody who has studied linguistics with Bible history knows this to be false and that the word "Gentile" has assumed in modern times a corrupted meaning. A in depth study quickly reveals the truth. According to Skeats Etymological Dictionary of the English Language. (New York : Pedigree Books, 1980, p.210) the word is derived from Old French and Latin. Walter W. Skeatsays: GENTILE. see Genteel. GENTEEL. (F.-L.) XVI cent.; F. gentil. C L> gentilis, belonging to the same clan, a gentile (afterwards applied to mean well-bred, &c. C L. genti-, decl. stem of gens, a clan, tribe. Alied to genus.

The original use of the word for the English language actually refers to those who belong to the same tribe or clan, a meaning nearly opposite its misinterpreted use in Scripture today - all nations other than Jews, the word Gentile from Genteel in no way can be defined as this, it's meaning which was understood as little as hundred to two hundred years ago was - belonging to the same clan, a gentile!

Gentile does not mean all others but really means excluding all others i.e. limited to a certain sthnic group. Websters Unabridged Dictionary defines the word, "gentile" as "of a clan, tribe, people or nation." The Encyclopedia Americana says for the root word, "gens: GENS, among the Romans, denoted that those persons belonged to the same gens who bore the same name; had no slave among their anscestors: and who had not been reduced from a superior to an inferior condition. The gens consisted of many families, supposedly of kindred blood, but was also applied to a whole community, the members of which were to believed to be decended from a common stem." (1956 Americana, XII p. 401)

It is from the Latin root GENS that we have derived such words as; Genteel, Gentleman, Gentry, Gentility, Genus and Genuine. The Universal Dictionary of the English Language, 1897, Vol II, p. 2286, says: gen-tile, gen-til, gen-tyl, a. & s. [Fr. gentil, from Lat. gentilis = one belonging to the same class, agentile, from gens (genit. gentis) = a clan; Sp. & Port. gentil: Ital. Gentile is thus a doublet of genteel and gentile (q.v).] A. As adjective: I. Ordinary Language: 1 Of or pertaining to any nation; national. 2. Of noble or gentle birth; of high rank; noble II. Technically: 1. Gram.: Denoting the clan, race, or country. B. As substantive: I. Ordinary Language: 1. One of the same clan or family. 2. A person of noble birth or gentile birth; one of high rank."

The original Greek word "ethnos" from which the Latin "gens" and then English "gentile" was translated correctly has exactly the same meaning. When Jesus used the word ethnos he did not mean non-Jews as that is simply not the definition of the word, the word can mean a specific ethnic group or clan of high birth but it can NEVER mean all nations of the world other than the Jews!

The ultimate Greek Lexicon, Liddel & Scott, lists many references to Greek classical literature, and Biblical writings, for definition of the word "ethnos". The definitions are: "number of people living together, company, body of men; particular tribe; a nation, a people; a caste, a tribe; a guild; a relation." (p.480) That is the Greek language known to the Greeks of that day. Biblical Koine Greekis the same. Thayer's Greek Lexicon of the New Testament defines "ethnos" as "a multitude associated or living together, a company, troop, or swarm, & a multitude of individuals of the same nature or genus, & race or nation." (p.168) It is ONLY modern and poorly educated Bible translators and Church institutions who have mistranslated whether deliberately or not the Greek word to mean all nations except Jews, and to be honest the situation has now become quite absurd by any standard. The theological implications of this are immense and I know that many in the higher eschalons of the Christian and Catholic Church along with Bible scholars are too afraid to reveal this truth as for the consequences and the difficulties in approaching this critical study.

You may well ask now just who are the Gentiles? and the answer because of all the lies and falsehoods out there now is very difficult to explain and would take a long time and many would simply not be strong enough to adapt to the truth in a short period of time, but the Bible tells us that in the latter days those that were blinded by God to their true identity, it would be revealed to them just who they really are and where they are from "the eyes of those will see will not be blinded, and the ears of those who hear will listen, and the mind of the hasty will discern truth." (Isaish 32:3-4).

There are so many lies and deceptions out there and I urge all Christians to consider what I have told you, it is essential and God wills it to be known and He will bring those who are His back to their true identity as it is written God will not cast off His people, look to the Word of God.

Mat. 12:18 - [referencing a prophecy of Isaiah, Jesus quotes] "Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall show judgement to the Gentiles (ethnesin)."

Mat. 12:21 - "And in his name shall the Gentiles trust"

Romans 2:14-15 - When the Gentiles (ethne) which have not the law, do by their nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written on their hearts,"

Jeremiah 31:33: "This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law into their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."

Hebrews 8:10 - "Into their understanding I will put My laws, and on their hearts I will write them."

Isaiah 9:8 - "The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it lighted upon Israel."

Isaiah 49:6 - "I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth."

Luke 2:30-32 - "For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; a light to lighten the Gentiles, and glory of thy people Israel."

Isaiah (Esaias) 1:2-4 - "Hear, O heaven, and hearken, O earth: for the Lord has spoken, saying 'I have begotten and reared up children, but they have rebelled against Me. The ox knows his owner, and the donkey his master's crib: but Israel does not know Me, and the people has not regarded Me. Ah, sinful nation (ethnos), a people full of sins, an evil seed, lawless children: ye have forsaken the Lord and provoked the Holy One of Israel."

Isaiah (Esaias) 8:8-9 - Know , ye Gentiles (ethne), and be conquered; hearken ye, even unto the extremity of the earth: be conquered..."

Ezekiel 20:34-36 - "And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out. And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face. like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will plead with you, saith the Lord God."

Hosea 1:10 - "And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there IT SHALL BE SAID TO THEM, YE ARE THE SONS OF THE LIVING GOD"

Jeremiah 31:2 - "Thus saith the Lord, The people which were left of the sword FOUND GRACE IN THE WILDERNESS; EVEN ISRAEL, when I went to CAUSE HIM TO REST"

Deuteronomy 30:6 - "AND the Lord thy GOD WILL CIRCUMCISE THINE HEART, and THE HEART OF THY SEED, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thine soul, that thou mayest live."

Phillipians 3:3 - "For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Jesus Christ, and have no confidence in the flesh."

Romans 2:29 - Circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Who are the "Gentiles"? They are the House of Israel who were cut off by the Lord and taken into Assyrian captivity, these Gentiles of high noble birth, the great Lost Tribes found grace in the wilderness and became many great nations as they were the seed of Abraham and they fulfilled the promises that God made to Abraham, Israel was released from Assyrian captivity and crossed over the Caucasus Mountains and there they dwelt and became known to history as a 'Great multitude of people" who migrated into Europe. It was to these forsaken children of God that Jesus came for "I was not sent except unto the lost sheep of the House of Israel" Who are the lost sheep? who are the Gentiles? who are the House of Israel that was taken into captivity? Who are God's people Israel who He will never cast off? Who are the people who God sent into the wilderness to find grace and salvation in Jesus Christ The Lord?

Isarel was to become a vast multitude of people! Genesis 22:17

Israel was to form a multitude of nations! Genesis 17:4-6

Israel was to rule over other nations! Deuteronomy 15:6

Israel was to be a blessing to all nations! Genesis 22:18

Israel was to have a new home other than Canaan land! 2 Samuel 7:10

Isarel was to have a land of unwalled villages without walls, bars or gates!Ezekiel 38:11

Israel's land was to be described as a camp of saints! Revelations 20: 7-9

Isarel was to have a NEW RELIGION and BE SAVED BY GOD! Jeremiah 31:7, 31-37

ISRAEL WAS TO CARRY THE GOSPEL TO THE WORLD! Isaiah 49:3-6

Israel was to be blind for the most part to her identity! Isaiah 42:16-19

ISRAEL WAS TO BE CALLED A NEW NAME! Isaiah 62:1-2

It is you Christians who are Israel, you Gentiles of high noble birth who carried the gospel of the Lord Jesus to the ends of the earth, you whose ancestors crossed the Caucasus Mountains and came into Europe, those lost sheep who Jesus charged His Apostles to find are the sons of the Living God who are blind to their identity as the House of Israel and their new name became Christ's Sons- Christians!

Let no man decieve you and listen to the Words long written down, many will try to convince you that you are not Israel so that you do not come into your inheritance, but they are liars and usurpers, your inheritence as Christs-Sons is to know that you are Israel and that Jesus and the Apostles are your brothers and share your heritage and Jesus Christ is Almighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace who has called His lost sheep back to Him and He will lose not one for He is the Great Shepard!

'Gentiles' Are Those Who Follow The Teaching Of Paul , And Not Following The Laws Of Mose Which Yashu'a Himself Follow !

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Anyone who is not a descendant of Abraham's grandson and Isaac's son Jacob is considered Gentile seeing as it is Jacob who the Lord changed his name to "ISRAEL".

See this is like some made up definition, it has no basis in reality or history, its a crude and uneducated guess without any reference or foundation.

So let me give the references and foundations once again;

The Greek Lexicon, Liddel & Scott. - ethnos (Gentile); "number of people living together, company, body of men; particular tribe; a nation, a people; a caste, a tribe; a guild; A RELATION."

That is the Greek language known to the Greeks of that day, in academia, and in literature both Biblical and secular Greek Classical. So again we see the word ethnos meaning those of a particular tribe that are a relation.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon of the New Testament. - ethnos (Gentile); "a multitude associated or living together, a company, a troop or a swarm, and a multitude of individuals OF THE SAME NATURE OR GENUS, & A RACE OR NATION.

Again "ethnos" cannot be taken to mean more than one nation, because it does not have that definition, Gentiles are of a nation or tribe, a people of the same race or nation, so its not plural. Only poor recent modern translations and bible dictionaries interpret the Greek "ethnos" as meaning 'all those who are non-jews', and that is just outrageous deception, it has no basis in linguistic history whatsoever, only a ignorant fool could believe such a thing against all the proper evidence presented to the contrary.

The Universal Dictionary of the English Language, 1897, Vol II, p.2286, - "gen-tile, gen-til, gen-tyl, a. & s [Fr. gentil, from Lat. gentilis = one belonging to the same class, a gentile, from gens (genit. gentis) = a clan; Sp. & Port. gentil: Ital. gentile. Gentile is thus a doublet of genteel and gentle (q.v.) A. As adjective: I. Ordinary Langauge; 1. Of or pertaining to any nation; national. 2. Of noble birth; of high rank; noble. II. Technically: 1. Gram: DENOTING THE CLAN< RACE< OR COUNTRY. B. As Substantive: I. Ordinary Langauge: 1. ONE OF THE SAME CLAN OR FAMILY. 2. PERSON OF NOBLE BIRTH OR GENTLE BIRTH: ONE OF HIGH RANK.

Of course if one is familiar with Latin roots, GENS means "descended from a commom stem". "kindred blood", "family".

Paul called the lost sheep of Israel - "ethnos" because they were related to the same tribe, they were divorced Israel, who became many nations, as history testifies to and the Biblical evidence agrees, as I have presented.

 

[greatkraw]

Thank you for this thread Cup

can I just clarify

Do you consider YOURSELF a 'Jew'?

 

[Definition_Christ]

*waits for him to quote Romans 2:28-29* Lol

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Thank you for this thread Cup

can I just clarify

Do you consider YOURSELF a 'Jew'?

Oh greatkraw have you learnt nothing yet?

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

OK "Gentile" cannot be translated in Greek, Latin or English as plural, its never been understood to be more than one nation in all of linguistic history, it has only been changed recently, the definition has simply been changed whether on purpose or not, the fact is it has been changed. You canot take 'Gentiles' to mean 'foreign Nations' as in plural, the word does not mean that, gentiles are only plural within the the same tribe or, the same nation, or the same family.

Same goes for the Hebrew, we have in modern dictionaries and especially amongst jews and christians, this ridiculous idea that goy means 'non-jew', how ridiculous, since when, since people forgot how to read books? Gen. 12:2 "Get thee out of thy country and from thy kindred and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will show thee, and I will bless you and make of thee a great GOY (nation)" So Abraham was a 'goy' he became a great goy, in fact many goyim because he is the father of many nations.

Gen. 48:19 "His seed shall become a multitude of goyim (Nations)"

Jacob/Israel became goyim, many nations.


Now people say that a goy is a non-jew, thats just completely unfounded and Biblically incorrect.

Do you know how numerous Israel are, they number like the sands of the sea, who can count? Abraham? Even the Spartans said they were descended from Abraham! They traded with Judea and considered Judah as Brethren, they both aknowledged they have the same father, what about Arabs, the Persians, all descended from father Abraham. Just like the Anglo-Saxons, if you read the Anglo-Saxons Chronicles, the kings trace their lineage right back to Abraham and then Eber and then Shem and then Adam, they go all the way back!

And yet we have this crazy, foolish idea in churches today where they claim only 'jews' are descendents of Abraham, ????? Try telling a Muslim that, try telling anyone who knows his/her ancestry or knows the Bible and history! What foolishness!

 

[Definition_Christ]

OK "Gentile" cannot be translated in Greek, Latin or English as plural, its never been understood to be more than one nation in all of linguistic history, it has only been changed recently, the definition has simply been changed whether on purpose or not, the fact is it has been changed. You canot take 'Gentiles' to mean 'foreign Nations' as in plural, the word does not mean that, gentiles are only plural within the the same tribe or, the same nation, or the same family.

Same goes for the Hebrew, we have in modern dictionaries and especially amongst jews and christians, this ridiculous idea that goy means 'non-jew', how ridiculous, since when, since people forgot how to read books? Gen. 12:2 "Get thee out of thy country and from thy kindred and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will show thee, and I will bless you and make of thee a great GOY (nation)" So Abraham was a 'goy' he became a great goy, in fact many goyim because he is the father of many nations.

Gen. 48:19 "His seed shall become a multitude of goyim (Nations)"

Jacob/Israel became goyim, many nations.

You almost had it, try Esau/Edom instead of Jacob/Israel though .

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

You almost had it, try Esau/Edom instead of Jacob/Israel though .

"But truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations (goyim)"

Ephraim in fact from Jacob/Israel.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Both Jacob/Israel and Esau/Edom were goy.

Gen. 25:23 "And the Lord said ' Two goy (nations) are in thy womb"

 

[greatkraw]

Oh greatkraw have you learnt nothing yet?

All I need is a yes or a no.

Why the hesitation?

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

"And God said "I am GOD ALMIGHTY: be fruitful and multiply; a goy (nation), and a company of goyim (nations) shall be of thee, and kings shall come from your loins. Gen. 35:11

Jacob/Israel became a company of nations.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

All I need is a yes or a no.

Why the hesitation?

A 'Jew' is a 'Jew' by conversion or by matriarchal line, my mother is not a jew neither any of my forebears, and I never converted to Judaism, I am a Christian. Anybody can become a jew an Eskimo could become a jew, just needs to go to a Rabbi and convert, it was the same in Jesus' day and ever since II Kings 16:6, the Edomites of Elath were jews they were at war with Israel, they converted to the Oral Law of the Elders which is Babylonian, its not Mosaic. now jews have an interpretation of the Bible, but its superceded by the Talmud which is their religious holy book and law code.

 

[greatkraw]

A 'Jew' is a 'Jew' by conversion or by matriarchal line, my mother is not a jew neither any of my forebears, and I never converted to Judaism, I am a Christian. Anybody can become a jew an Eskimo could become a jew, just needs to go to a Rabbi and convert, it was the same in Jesus' day and ever since II Kings 16:6, the Edomites of Elath were jews they were at war with Israel, they converted to the Oral Law of the Elders which is Babylonian, its not Mosaic. now jews have an interpretation of the Bible, but its superceded by the Talmud which is their religious holy book and law code.

OK, so what are you?

Your answer will determine whether or not you are of the synagogue of satan.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Would have to be Irish.

 

[greatkraw]

Would have to be Irish.

to be sure to be sure