ASSURANCE OF SALVATION

swat4christ · May 28, 2009

Some call it ETERNAL SECURITY, some call it PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS, some call it PRESERVATION OF THE SAINTS; no matter what you call it, is it a Biblical FACT or is it some denominational belief system?

Can YOU lay aside your feelings, prejudices, predispositions, preferences and all of the rest of that STUFF - and just make a decision based on Scripture? I DIDN’T THINK SO! But if you could, would what follows influence your thought on the matter?

Careful now - don’t shoot the messenger.

Alright, first off, let’s look at Romans 4:5. (All Scripture is taken from the Authorized Version, also known as the King James Version, and any deviation from this text is purely unintentional). The Bible says in Romans 4:5, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Now, this is the first of many verses we shall look at, but notice that to “him that believeth” his FAITH is counted as righteousness. Salvation, according to this verse, has nothing to do with “works” but whether or not a person “believes.” Also note that the “faith” of this person IS his righteousness. Let’s continue. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 1:8, “Who shall confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” The Bible says that the Lord Jesus Christ will “confirm” us until the “END” - not for a little bit, not for a year until we mess up, not for a decade until we commit some kind of “unpardonable” sin. The Bible says that we are confirmed until the END! The question then begs to be asked, do we believe the Bible or don’t we? Moving on. The Bible says in Philippians 1:6, “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” So who began the “good work” in us? God! Not us, not our works, not our “righteousness”, but the Lord of Glory! Also, it says that He “will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” Who performs it? Does the Bible say that we perform it? No, it says that the Lord performs it until the day of Jesus Christ. So if we lost our salvation, that means that God would have FAILED in performing it! Can God fail? What new doctrine is this? I guess it all depends on whether you believe the Bible or not. The Bible says in John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” This is a fairly well known and memorized verse, and it is quite simple in nature. But look closely at what it says. It says that if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you HAVE everlasting life. How long is everlasting life? Is it temporary? Does it last for a few months, a few years, a few hundred years? Hmmm I don’t think so. Everlasting life means IT LASTS FOR EVER!!!! And the Bible says that when we place our belief in the Lord Jesus, that we HAVE that life that LASTS FOR EVER! Is God’s Holy and Perfect Word LYING when it says this? “Let God be true but every man a liar.” The Bible says in John 5:24, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” This verse is very similar to the previous one we just discussed, but this verse adds a little extra “goodness”. Not only do we have “everlasting life”, but when we believe, we “SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION”. That’s what the BOOK says! So if we placed our belief in the Lord Jesus, then we lost our salvation, and died and entered into condemnation, that means that the BOOK has LIED!!!

That’s some heavy accusations against God Almighty my friend! The Bible says in John 6:37-39, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” Notice in verse 37 that the Lord Jesus says that if anyone comes to Him, He will never “cast them out.” Was the Lord Jesus Christ lying? God forbid that any man would even THINK such a thing! But verse 39 is the real “doozy”, as they say, for it says that Jesus Christ “should lose nothing.” Well, if we “lost” our salvation, that would mean that Jesus would lose one of His own. I guess Jesus makes a habit out of lying then doesn’t He? The Lord knows my heart, that I am in no way being blasphemous. I am speaking “tongue in cheek”, as they say. Of course Jesus Christ never lied, for if He did, then our beliefs amount to absolutely nothing! Anyway, onward and upward! The Bible says in John 10:28, “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” Again, this is the Lord Jesus Christ speaking here. He says that anyone who places their faith in Him shall “never perish”, and that no one can “pluck them” out of His hand! These verses are pretty straight forward. Not much of explanation is really needed. If we can lose our salvation, Jesus and God are LIARS! I sound like a broken record don’t I?

Back to the book of Romans we go! The BOOK says in Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” One of the most widely memorized verses ever, in most likeliness. It says that we are given “eternal life”. How long is it? How long does eternity last? A couple years? A month? A century? A millennium? Don’t think so. It lasts FOR EVER!!! That’s what the Bible says anyway. But really, who believes any of THAT anymore? But guess what? We have just scratched the surface! The Bible says in Romans 8:29-30, “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Where to begin. The question is, did the Lord foreknow you to save you? Yes? No? Make up your mind, because it only gets “better from here.” Did He foreknow you to save you? Yes? There you go. So if He foreknew you, He predestinated you. If He predestinated you, He called you. Did He call you? Did He call you to Himself to be saved? Yes? Now we’re making progress! Well, if He called you, then He justified you! And if He justified you, then He GLORIFIED you! I’m sorry, did I miss the part about losing your calling and going to hell? I must have overlooked that somewhere. Oh wait, it wasn’t me, it was GOD who must have overlooked that little detail. Please, that’s not what the Bible says! I mean, we have to establish some kind of AUTHORITY here to base our beliefs on, right? We just can’t have people running around and spouting off about “well this feels right to ME” and “well I’ve just always believed” and “But I THINK” and all this business. We need an AUTHORITY! No? Well, my AUTHORITY is the Holy Bible, and that BOOK says that if He called me, then He GLORIFIED me! I have absolutely NOTHING to do with it! It’s not my works, my righteousness, my “keeping of the law” or any of this business. It is GOD and GOD alone.

Now of course, this does not mean that a man can “get saved” and then go about his business and live like the devil himself. But see, here’s the good part. If a man gets truly saved, he won’t do that ANYWAY! Look down at verse 33 of the same chapter we are in, which says, “Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.” See? Who can lay any sin at my feet? Can you? Can your pastor? Can anyone? Of course not. It is GOD that does ALL THE WORK!! I mean let’s face it, if it was left up to me or to you or to any flesh and blood man that walks to earth to get to heaven through our works, we would be “in a world of dung” as the Marines say. The Pharisees were some of the most, if not the most, religious people to ever set foot on the ground, but what did Jesus say to them? “Ye generation of vipers, ye shall receive the GREATER ****ATION.” Well, how’s THAT for offensive? The BOOK says in Ephesians 1:13, “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.” What does the verse SAY? Not what do you THINK it says. What does it say? It says that we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit. We are sealed my friend! And let me tell you something, when God seals a fellow, I don’t care who tries to “un-seal” him, it “ain’t happenin’”, as they say in Tennessee. The BOOK says in Ephesians 5:30, “For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.” Now here’s an interesting twist. If we “lost” our salvation and ended up burning in hell, we would be taking a part of Jesus Christ to burn in hell with us! What a shock! Now, now, let’s not get too excited, I’m just quoting Scripture! The BOOK says that we are PART of Christ, LITERALLY! So if we “went to hell” after becoming a member in the “Body of Christ”, we would take part of that body with us into eternal ****ation! I smell something “fishy”, don’t you? The BOOK says in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.” So, God did not appoint us to “wrath”. I would say that hell probably qualifies as “wrath” wouldn’t you? Remember, the Scripture is not to be “privately interpreted”. I’m just quoting Scripture! Look at verse 24 in the same chapter, which says, “Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.” Well, if we remember from Romans, it is God who calls us, and this verse says that He “WILL DO IT.” Now if we lost our salvation and went to hell, God did not “DO IT”, GOD FAILED!!! Now, now, children, we know that God cannot fail, and He cannot LIE. But if we lose our salvation, God DOES BOTH! “Let God be true but every man a liar.” The BOOK says in 2 Timothy 1:9, “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.” Again, the BOOK says that our salvation (and our retaining of it for that matter) have absolutely nothing to do with “our works” but only through the “grace” of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is starting to become redundant, no? Alright, once more with feeling! The BOOK says in 1 Peter 1:3-5, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance, incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” We shall end here. I don’t think any comment even needs to be made on the verses, they speak for themselves. The “gist” of the passage is this, we were given an “inheritance” that “fadeth not away” (there goes the losing of salvation, again), and it is “reserved” in heaven for us. There it is. I don’t know how much more could be said. Now you used Hebrews 10:26 in the chat room the other day to “prove” that we can lose salvation; the verse is as follows, “For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remained no more sacrifice for sins.” First of all, the verse is addressing those who have “knowledge of the truth.” That’s what the verse SAYS. A lot of people have “knowledge of the truth” who are NOT saved, I can assure you. If you’ve ever witnessed to someone and they did everything but spit in your face, they now have “knowledge” of the truth, but they are NOT saved. Second of all, the “sacrifice” being referred to in the verse is a reference to the Jewish sacrifice for sins of the Old Testament that is NO LONGER EFFICIENT. Always look at the rest of the TEXT for clarification. For in verse 28 we see that it is the law of MOSES that is being discussed. And of course, it always helps to read the entire passage and not just pull out one verse, for the end of the chapter says in verse 39, “But we are NOT OF THEM (emphasis mine) who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.” The people being referred to in verse 26 are not the Church, and Paul plainly states so at the end of the passage. God Bless.

Baruch · May 28, 2009

Psalm 16:10For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Acts 2:26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope: 27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

I believe Hebrews chapter 10 was trying to drive the point home that when someone sins again after being born again.. there is no need for another sacrificial offering as we have been bought with a price ad sealed as His. I believe this is the correct interpretation since the words written is about renewing oneself.. not about an unbeliever rejecting the Gospel of grace.

Hebrews 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. 32But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated,....

Hebrews 6: 4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3And this will we do, if God permit.

I would have to say that this was pretty much written for the Catholic believers in reproving the Eucharist useage in the Mass as a dead work that denies Him as being able by that one time offering for sin b y implying more is needed. All they need to do is touch not the Eucharist as it has become an idol... an unclean thing.. and withdraw from the Catholic Church so that their faith in Jesus Christ for justification may be seen apart from the RCC and the works of catholicism within.

2 Corinthians 6:14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

This also calls believers in the faith not to have fellowship with catholics so the world and other believers shall see our faith as apart from catholicism.

BLC · May 28, 2009

Baruch,

Your going way to far out there sir. You need to stop and start looking at the grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ. We were alienated from God in our mind and heart as an enemy doing wicked works, when God reached out to us through His Son. We were blind and living in darkness before the light of the glorious gospel shone unto us. We were dead in trespasses and sins but He saved us by grace and regenerated us according to His mercy. Religion is a form of darkness that has blinded the minds of many that do not believe. Satan has been able to deceive many including the first woman and was able to get the first man to transgress and disobey God and both were without sin or any false doctrine.

You should be thankful that God was gracious to you and gave you a gift of His righteousness by grace. You had nothing to do with your calling and nothing to do with the mercy that God had toward you when your whole head was sick and your heart was deceitful and desperately wicked. When you begin to rail on certain groups of people without understanding what God's heart is toward them, you are a stumbling block instead of an ambassador for Christ. If God has put up with Israel's rebellion and unbelief and rejection of Christ all these years, I am sure you can have a little fruit of patience and longsuffering toward those you condemn for heresy. Don't think that it is always your calling to go around and rebuke those things you disagree with even if contradicts the scriptures. Your life was a contradiction of the scripture when God found you, but He looked beyond that and gave you grace instead of judging your despicable life of unbelief and total rebellion before Him.

Lauren · May 28, 2009

Baruch said:

Can you explain to me why you feel that this passage refers to not having fellowship specifically with catholics? I mean, there are unbelievers in all denominations (those that attend church to look good or because it's the thing to do). I am not catholic, I know nothing about catholicism, it just jumped out to me that you mention catholics specifically, so I'd like to understand what about the scripture leads you to believe that it's referring only to catholics.

watchmen · May 28, 2009

swat4christ said:

swat, the doctrine of Eternal Security ect.... is a false doctrine, however we can have assurance of our Salvation if we have repented and remain faithful to Christ being obedient to His Word.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

These scripture not only disprove Eternal Security/OSAS, but also shows us we can be assured Salvation by remaining faithful, and there are many like them such as 1st John 2:3-6

1st John 2
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

We can have assurance of Salvation if we keep Christ commandments.

Baruch · May 28, 2009

BLC said:

Is this the same BLC that was defending the altar call of Billy Graham's in making a commitment to follow Christ for the assurances of salvation? How is it that you do not apply those words to Billy Graham's altar call?

Religion is what catholicism is, but as believers, for them to be engaging in them again is called labouring in unbelief.... just as keeping the commitment to follow Christ is not of faith, but of the flesh. We are warned not to be so foolish as the Galatians were ( Galatians 3:1-3 ) & coming short of that rest provided by Jesus Christ for those that believe... mixed with faith that heard Him.

I am thankful, but again, you are misapplying the correction.

Did not Paul railed on the Galatians in chapter 3? He did so by addressing what they were doing so foolishly: circumcision. That is a pretty broad address.

Do note that when I pointed out the catholics, the correction was towards the works of catholicism as Paul was towards the Galatians towards circumcision.

I am surprise you did not jump all over roaringkitten because he was the one condemning catholics to hell, was he not? I am hoping he has received the correction I had posted to him earlier by His grace.

I have not posted anything about any believer going to Hell, but forewarned them as to what voids faith and how sinful lifestyles will cause many believers to be left behind. By His grace, He shall wake them up to examine themselves in the faith or they will be awaken at the arpture event when then they will be shining the light of faith on what Christ has done for us, even though there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth for missing out on their first inheritance.

It is not for you to ignore a brother in a trespass. Jesus taught to correct him. Jesus taught excommunication if non-repentive. Just as Jesus taught, so will the rapture be as judgment falls on the House of God first so that they may be chastened by His grace to be partakers of His holiness to go through the great tribulation by being witnesses of Him and nothing else in His name on earth that would share in that glory with Him.

It is not love to ignore someoe you know is in danger.

Have you consulted with Him as to the reason why God placed me on this earth ( also by His grace)? I am not to say for that would be testifying of myself. So go ahead... ask Him.

Are we to obey the Gospel of grace or continue in sin and unbelief?

I really do not know why you are jumping up and down over all of this. I have not stated anything about any believer.. wayward or otherwise, would be going to Hell. As I agreed with the OP, if you had noticed.... the verses I quoted applied to catholics in regards to the Eucharist in the Mass to clarify what Henews 10:26 was referring to.... and the Poster of the OP wasn't catholic. If he was, he did not come across as one.

Baruch · May 28, 2009

Lauren said:

Oh. No. It is not specifically applying to only Catholics, but I can see how plainly it does apply to them.

From the Roman Catholic Catechism:

That makes the Eucharist as an idol. What follows is how the Eucharist takes the place of what should be the glory of Jesus Christ for having done.

Definition of the anti-christ means.. "instead of Christ". That is why I see the Eucharist as an idol and an unclean thing.

There are many other idols in the RCC such as Mary... and the departed saints as catholics do pray to them as if they are gods. There is only one Mediator between us and God, the man Christ Jesus.

There is alos the preists which they go to for confession of sin instead of to Jesus Whom cleanses us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

So when we are being ecumenical with the catholics, we are sending a mixed message to the world because the RCC do not believe the same as we do and indeed, they have seperated us from them by this singular belief.

So that is why I see those scriptures as applying to catholics in calling them out and not touching the unclean thing which is the Eucharist.

Baruch · May 28, 2009

watchmen said:

swat, the doctrine of Eternal Security ect.... is a false doctrine, however we can have assurance of our Salvation if we have repented and remain faithful to Christ being obedient to His Word.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

These scripture not only disprove Eternal Security/OSAS, but also shows us we can be assured Salvation by remaining faithful, and there are many like them such as 1st John 2:3-6

1st John 2
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

We can have assurance of Salvation if we keep Christ commandments.

What commandments do you believe you need to keep so you can have assuraces of salvation?

What hope do you put on yourself to achieve assurances?

When He appears, are you going to draw back not knowing if you had met all of those commandments to get those assurances?

BLC · May 28, 2009

quote: 'these scripture not only disprove Eternal Security/OSAS, but also shows us we can be assured Salvation by remaining faithful, and there are many like them such as 1st John 2:3-6'
1st John 2:
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Watchmen...According To You...

If I can prove that you are not keeping His commandments or His word, then you are a liar and the truth is not in you. Is that right? You have to be a doer and not a hearer only (James 1:23). Isn't that right? You would have to be keeping ALL the commandments and ALL of the word for the truth to be in you and remain in you. As soon as you broke one of the commandments (even the least Mt 5:19) no longer would you be of the truth but you would be a liar. As a believer you are to be honest and you are to put away lying (Eph 4:25, Col 3:9, James 3:14, Rom 12:17, 2Cor 8:21, 1Pt 2:12). We are commanded to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature and make disciples, baptizing them and teaching them the commandments of Jesus Christ. Are you doing that? We are commanded not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together but to do it more as you see the day approaching when Christ comes back (Heb 10:25). Are you doing that?

You are commanded not to think or speak evil of any man (1Cor 13:5, Titus 3:2). Have you keep the word or have you spoken evil of anyone, even your enemy? You are told and instructed to redeem the time for the days are evil (Eph 5:16). Are you doing what the word of God is telling you or perhaps you do not know what that means? If you have one thought or take one step outside of faith that is sin and you have broken the law of faith (Rom 3:27,28, Rom 14:23). Have you been there or done that? I say that if you proclaim that you have always kept the commandments and every word of God without sin, you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you. And if you say you have not sinned (by breaking the commandments), you make God a liar and His word is not in you (1John 1:8,10).

Lauren · May 28, 2009

Baruch said:

Thank you for clarifying that.

BLC · May 28, 2009

Baruch,

Jer 17:5-10 ' Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited. Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit. The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings'.

You have to see the goodness of God that has been reaching many Catholics in their own church and gloriously redeeming them with salvation by grace and through faith in Christ. It has been going on for the last four decades. Some have stayed and some God has called out. When you see it you can do nothing but be thankful because God has done it. So we praise God for each one and pray that He will continue to extend His arm of mercy and save many more. God looks beyond the appearance of religious darkness and looks upon the heart and draws people to Himself with lovingkindness. Put all that stuff away and take on a ministry of reconciliation because that is what God is doing. That is not compromising the truth that you have in your heart because you have conviction and the truth will not change. They need the gospel of Christ as we all do. We don't war or fight against flesh and blood. I have seen personally hundreds of Catholics come to Christ and what God has done in their lives is truly a work of redemptive grace.

NoahsDad · May 28, 2009

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Rom 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Hmmmm woman preachers?neither male Nor female in Christ?.wierd)
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. (hmmmmm.she aint laughin now,but judging God faithful for His promise)
Heb 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Heb 11:17 By faith(belief) Abraham, when he was tried, offered up(Action on that faith) Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,(action on that faith)
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.(Belief)
Heb 11:20 By faith(belief) Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. (Acton on that faith)
Heb 11:21 By faith(belief) Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed(action) both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped,(action again) leaning upon the top of his staff.
Heb 11:22 By faith(Belief) Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones. (action) Y'all startin to see a pattern here yet?
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Heb 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Heb 11:29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
Heb 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Heb 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
Heb 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
Heb 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
Heb 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Heb 11:36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy

they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
[QUOTEJoh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. ][/QUOTE]
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
2Ti 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

watchmen · May 28, 2009

watchmen said:

BLC said:

Actually that is according to The Apostle John, not me

watchmen · May 28, 2009

watchmen said:

Baruch said:

I think we should obey all of Christ commandments, just like BLC said (although I am not sure what His motive was). Namely love God with all you heart , mind, soul, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.

By the way BLC
1st John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

BLC · May 28, 2009

I believe that we are to keep and do the commandments that we have received from God, but I am against those that say if you fail to keep them that you lose the truth, the substance and the God of your salvation. That's takes away from God fulfilling His promises to me. Eternal redemption d salvation is a promise from God that He has to keep, not me. If we break or offend in any one point of the law we are guilty of all of it (James 2:10). That is why the scriptures say in (Rom 13:8-10):

'Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law'.

James 2:8-12 'If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty'.

The scriptures cannot be broken (John 10:35). That means that (the law) is one law and not many. If we do not keep even one commandment we are guilty of keeping none. That is why that the law is fulfilled in one word, 'love thy neighbor as thyself' (Gal 5:14, Rom 13:10, James 2:8). Have we forgotten the weightier matters of the law which are judgment, mercy and faith (Mt 23:23)? Should I lose a promise from God by not keeping a commandment? Our salvation has nothing to do with keeping the commandments but believing in the cross Christ. If salvation is according to man keeping the commandments, salvation would be of the law and not of the LORD (Ps 37:39, Jonah 2:9).

BLC · May 28, 2009

NoahsDad,

Your quote from: Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Can you explain this statement concerning John the baptist that Jesus made (in blue);

Luke 7:26-28 'But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet. This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he'.

Baruch · May 28, 2009

BLC said:

Oh I shall rejoice. I shall.

As I know that not all believers in the Catholic Church practise catholicism to the labouring in unbelief, but as a faithful attender, from the youth up, rituals are performed that voids faith. Like Confirmation for young adults when the priest slaps two fingers on the side of the cheek of young adults as that was the passing on of the Holy Spirit to them. A dead work not of faith.

So as dead works reign within that denies Him as able.. the Mass .. the Eucharist... looking to be a member of the Catholic Church to obtain salvation and the works within... the seven sacraments necessary for salvation... I see that as a man that trusteth in man as in the RCC and has made his flesh his arm as in making catholicism his strength in obtaining salvation, then they will not see when good cometh... the faith in Jesus Christ. That is how I apply your quoted verse to the RCC. Do you believe in His Words or not? Then when a believer departs from the faith in Jesus Christ by the works within, no one can see their own faith when it is reminded again by those outside the RCC. The truth of God's words in Jeremiah 17:5-10.

If God looks upon the heart of a catholic, then God as the Good Shepherd would lead those that hear His voice and seek His face.. to leave the Catholic Church so that their faith may shine as apart from the RCC and the works within if they ever expect their loved ones to know the Good News in Christ.

But that cannot be done unless those outside the RCC declares the simplicity of the Gospel to expose the dead works of catholicism within for many do believe Jesus Christ is the Saviour, but many fail to see His glory as Saviour when they place their hopes on catholicism to obtain eternal life as well.

NoahsDad · May 28, 2009

BLC said:

The Kingdom of god and the Kingdom of Heaven arte 2 different subjects......The Kingdom of God is ,Righteousness,Peace and Joy in the Holy Spirit
The Kingdom of Heaven is where God lives and where Jesus ascended to

Baruch · May 28, 2009

An addition for clarification...

Although we are called to expose the works of darkness by the Light of scriptures, God can lead catholics out of catholicism on His own. He is able to correct those that seek Him and hear His voice as I testify that no one corrected me when I was being tossed hither and thither by the deceitful doctrine of man and brought into boindage till He delivered me from every evil work as I trust Him to continue to preserve me from every evil work as well so He can bring me Home to His glory.

fcda2009 · May 28, 2009

Do not doubt about your salvation. When God said I love you. He loves you, so when God promised salvation. We are all secured that when death comes we will be all in Heaven. Romans 8:35-39. As a child of our earthly father we commit sins and again to sin. The question is does our being a son was cut off? of course not. Because legallly we are a child of of our fathers. So, when we received Jesus as our Lord and personal saviour. We areconvince that when we die we will go with our father that is God.

I John 3:20

MIJI Ministries
www.mijiph.webs.com

ASSURANCE OF SALVATION

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