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swat, the doctrine of Eternal Security ect.... is a false doctrine, however we can have assurance of our Salvation if we have repented and remain faithful to Christ being obedient to His Word.
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
These scripture not only disprove Eternal Security/OSAS, but also shows us we can be assured Salvation by remaining faithful, and there are many like them such as 1st John 2:3-6
1st John 2
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
We can have assurance of Salvation if we keep Christ commandments.
Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Colossians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
These scripture not only disprove Eternal Security/OSAS, but also shows us we can be assured Salvation by remaining faithful, and there are many like them such as 1st John 2:3-6
1st John 2
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
We can have assurance of Salvation if we keep Christ commandments.
Notion of infallible assurance is as silly as Faith Alone. Silly, unbiblical, irrational, never believed by early Christians, never taught by the Church. You need to get over this unchristian temptation.
This topic goes beyond simply believing if one has been saved. What the question also means is: "Don’t you wish you had the assurance of salvation?" Evangelicals and Fundamentalists think they do have such an absolute assurance. All they have to do is "accept Christ as their personal Savior," and it’s done. They might well live exemplary lives thereafter, but living well is not crucial and definitely does not affect their salvation.
Kenneth E. Hagin, a well-known Pentecostal televangelist from the "Word Faith" wing of Protestantism, asserts that this assurance of salvation comes through being "born again": "Unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). Though much of Hagin’s theology is considered bizarre in Protestant circles, his explanation of being born again could be endorsed by millions of Evangelical Protestants. In his booklet, The New Birth, Hagin writes, "The new birth is a necessity to being saved. Through the new birth you come into the right relationship with God."
According to Hagin, there are many things that this new birth is not. "The new birth is not: confirmation, church membership, water baptism, the taking of sacraments, observing religious duties, an intellectual reception of Christianity, orthodoxy of faith, going to church, saying prayers, reading the Bible, being moral, being cultured or refined, doing good deeds, doing your best, nor any of the many other things some men are trusting in to save them." Those who have obtained the new birth "did the one thing necessary: they accepted Jesus Christ as personal Savior by repenting and turning to God with the whole heart as a little child." That one act of the will, he explains, is all they needed to do. But is this true? Does the Bible support this concept?
Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
For many Fundamentalists and Evangelicals it makes no difference—as far as salvation is concerned—how you live or end your life. You can heed the altar call at church, announce that you’ve accepted Jesus as your personal Savior, and, so long as you really believe it, you’re set. From that point on there is nothing you can do, no sin you can commit, no matter how heinous, that will forfeit your salvation. You can’t undo your salvation, even if you wanted to.
Does this sound too good to be true? Yes, but nevertheless, it is something many Protestants claim. Take a look at what Wilson Ewin, the author of a booklet called There is Therefore Now No Condemnation, says. He writes that "the person who places his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his blood shed at Calvary is eternally secure. He can never lose his salvation. No personal breaking of God’s or man’s laws or commandments can nullify that status."
"To deny the assurance of salvation would be to deny Christ’s perfect redemption," argues Ewin, and this is something he can say only because he confuses the redemption that Christ accomplished for us objectively with our individual appropriation of that redemption. The truth is that in one sense we are all redeemed by Christ’s death on the cross—Christians, Jews, Muslims, even animists in the darkest forests (1 Tim. 2:6, 4:10, 1 John 2:2)—but our individual appropriation of what Christ provided is contingent on our response.
Certainly, Christ did die on the cross once for all and has entered into the holy place in heaven to appear before God on our behalf. Christ has abundantly provided for our salvation, but that does not mean that there is no process by which this is applied to us as individuals. Obviously, there is, or we would have been saved and justified from all eternity, with no need to repent or have faith or anything else. We would have been born "saved," with no need to be born again. Since we were not, since it is necessary for those who hear the gospel to repent and embrace it, there is a time at which we come to be reconciled to God. And if so, then we, like Adam and Eve, can become unreconciled with God and, like the prodigal son, need to come back and be reconciled again with God, after having left his family.
Ewin says that "no wrong act or sinful deed can ever affect the believer’s salvation. The sinner did nothing to merit God’s grace and likewise he can do nothing to demerit grace. True, sinful conduct always lessens one’s fellowship with Christ, limits his contribution to God’s work and can result in serious disciplinary action by the Holy Spirit."
One problem with this argument is that this is not even how things work in everyday life. If another person gives us something as a grace—as a gift—and even if we did nothing to deserve it (though frequently gifts are given based on our having pleased the one bestowing the gift), it in no way follows that our actions are irrelevant to whether or not we keep the gift. We can lose it in all kinds of ways. We can misplace it, destroy it, give it to someone else, take it back to the store. We may even forfeit something we were given by later displeasing the one who gave it—as when a person has been appointed to a special position but is later stripped of that position on account of mismanagement.
The argument fares no better when one turns to Scripture, for one finds that Adam and Eve, who received God’s grace in a manner just as unmerited as anyone today, most definitely did demerit it—and lost grace not only for themselves but for us as well (cf. also Rom. 11:17-24). While the idea that what is received without merit cannot be lost by demerit may have a kind of poetic charm for some, it does not stand up when compared with the way things really work—either in the everyday world or in the Bible.
Regarding the issue of whether Christians have an "absolute" assurance of salvation, regardless of their actions, consider this warning Paul gave: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).
Related to the issue of whether one can lose one’s salvation is the question of whether one can know with complete certainty that one is in a state of salvation. Even if one could not lose one’s salvation, one still might not be sure whether one ever had salvation. Similarly, even if one could be sure that one is now in a state of salvation, one might be able to fall from grace in the future. The "knowability" of salvation is a different question than the "loseability" of salvation.
From the Radio Bible Class listeners can obtain a booklet called Can Anyone Really Know for Sure? The anonymous author says the "Lord Jesus wanted his followers to be so sure of their salvation that they would rejoice more in the expectation of heaven than in victories on earth. ‘These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God (1 John 5:13).’"
Places where Scripture speaks of our ability to know that we are abiding in grace are important and must be taken seriously. But they do not promise that we will be protected from self-deception on this matter. Even the author of Can Anyone Really Know for Sure? admits that there is a false assurance: "The New Testament teaches us that genuine assurance is possible and desirable, but it also warns us that we can be deceived through a false assurance. Jesus declared: ‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 7:21)."
Sometimes Fundamentalists portray Apostolic Christians as if they must every moment be in terror of losing their salvation since Catholics recognize that it is possible to lose salvation through mortal sin. Fundamentalists then hold out the idea that, rather than living every moment in terror, they can have a calm, assured knowledge that they will, in fact, be saved, and that nothing will ever be able to change this fact.
But this portrayal is in error. Apostolic Christians do not live lives of mortal terror concerning salvation. True, salvation can be lost through mortal sin, but such sins are by nature grave ones, and not the kind that a person living the Christian life is going to slip into committing on the spur of the moment, without deliberate thought and consent. Neither does the Church teach that one cannot have a relative assurance of salvation. This is true both of present and future salvation.
One can be confident of one’s present salvation. This is one of the chief reasons why God gave us the sacraments—to provide visible assurances that he is invisibly providing us with his grace. And one can be confident that one has not thrown away that grace by simply examining one’s life and seeing whether one has committed mortal sin. Indeed, the tests that John sets forth in his first epistle to help us know whether we are abiding in grace are, in essence, tests of whether we are dwelling in grave sin. For example, "By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother" (1 John 3:10), "If any one says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen" (1 John 4:20), "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3).
Likewise, by looking at the course of one’s life in grace and the resolution of one’s heart to keep following God, one can also have confidence of future salvation. It is this Paul speaks of when he writes to the Philippians and says, "And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6). This is not a promise for all Christians, or even necessarily all in the church at Philippi, but it is a confidence that the Philippian Christians in general would make it. The basis of this is their spiritual performance to date, and Paul feels a need to explain to them that there is a basis for his confidence in them. Thus he says, immediately, "It is right for me to feel thus about you all, because I hold you in my heart, for you are all partakers with me of grace, both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel" (1:7). The fact that the Philippians performed spiritually by assisting Paul in his imprisonment and ministry showed that their hearts were with God and that it could be expected that they, at least in general, would persevere and remain with God.
There are many saintly men and women who have long lived the Christian life and whose characters are marked with profound spiritual joy and peace. Such individuals can look forward with confidence to their reception in heaven.
Such an individual was Paul, writing at the end of his life, "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day" (2 Tim. 4:7-8). But earlier in life, even Paul did not claim an infallible assurance, either of his present justification or of his remaining in grace in the future. Concerning his present state, he wrote, "I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified [Gk., dedikaiomai]. It is the Lord who judges me" (1 Cor. 4:4). Concerning his remaining life, Paul was frank in admitting that even he could fall away: "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27). Of course, for a spiritual giant such as Paul, it would be quite unexpected and out of character for him to fall from God’s grace. Nevertheless, he points out that, however much confidence in his own salvation he may be warranted in feeling, even he cannot be infallibly sure either of his own present state or of his future course.
The same is true of us. We can, if our lives display a pattern of perseverance and spiritual fruit, have not only a confidence in our present state of grace but also of our future perseverance with God. Yet we cannot have an infallible certitude of our own salvation, as many Protestantswill admit. There is the possibility of self-deception (cf. Matt. 7:22-23). As Jeremiah expressed it, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?" (Jer. 17:9). There is also the possibility of falling from grace through mortal sin, and even of falling away from the faith entirely, for as Jesus told us, there are those who "believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away" (Luke 8:13). It is in the light of these warnings and admonitions that we must understand Scripture’s positive statements concerning our ability to know and have confidence in our salvation. Assurance we may have; infallible certitude we may not.
This topic goes beyond simply believing if one has been saved. What the question also means is: "Don’t you wish you had the assurance of salvation?" Evangelicals and Fundamentalists think they do have such an absolute assurance. All they have to do is "accept Christ as their personal Savior," and it’s done. They might well live exemplary lives thereafter, but living well is not crucial and definitely does not affect their salvation.
Kenneth E. Hagin, a well-known Pentecostal televangelist from the "Word Faith" wing of Protestantism, asserts that this assurance of salvation comes through being "born again": "Unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). Though much of Hagin’s theology is considered bizarre in Protestant circles, his explanation of being born again could be endorsed by millions of Evangelical Protestants. In his booklet, The New Birth, Hagin writes, "The new birth is a necessity to being saved. Through the new birth you come into the right relationship with God."
According to Hagin, there are many things that this new birth is not. "The new birth is not: confirmation, church membership, water baptism, the taking of sacraments, observing religious duties, an intellectual reception of Christianity, orthodoxy of faith, going to church, saying prayers, reading the Bible, being moral, being cultured or refined, doing good deeds, doing your best, nor any of the many other things some men are trusting in to save them." Those who have obtained the new birth "did the one thing necessary: they accepted Jesus Christ as personal Savior by repenting and turning to God with the whole heart as a little child." That one act of the will, he explains, is all they needed to do. But is this true? Does the Bible support this concept?
Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
For many Fundamentalists and Evangelicals it makes no difference—as far as salvation is concerned—how you live or end your life. You can heed the altar call at church, announce that you’ve accepted Jesus as your personal Savior, and, so long as you really believe it, you’re set. From that point on there is nothing you can do, no sin you can commit, no matter how heinous, that will forfeit your salvation. You can’t undo your salvation, even if you wanted to.
Does this sound too good to be true? Yes, but nevertheless, it is something many Protestants claim. Take a look at what Wilson Ewin, the author of a booklet called There is Therefore Now No Condemnation, says. He writes that "the person who places his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his blood shed at Calvary is eternally secure. He can never lose his salvation. No personal breaking of God’s or man’s laws or commandments can nullify that status."
"To deny the assurance of salvation would be to deny Christ’s perfect redemption," argues Ewin, and this is something he can say only because he confuses the redemption that Christ accomplished for us objectively with our individual appropriation of that redemption. The truth is that in one sense we are all redeemed by Christ’s death on the cross—Christians, Jews, Muslims, even animists in the darkest forests (1 Tim. 2:6, 4:10, 1 John 2:2)—but our individual appropriation of what Christ provided is contingent on our response.
Certainly, Christ did die on the cross once for all and has entered into the holy place in heaven to appear before God on our behalf. Christ has abundantly provided for our salvation, but that does not mean that there is no process by which this is applied to us as individuals. Obviously, there is, or we would have been saved and justified from all eternity, with no need to repent or have faith or anything else. We would have been born "saved," with no need to be born again. Since we were not, since it is necessary for those who hear the gospel to repent and embrace it, there is a time at which we come to be reconciled to God. And if so, then we, like Adam and Eve, can become unreconciled with God and, like the prodigal son, need to come back and be reconciled again with God, after having left his family.
Ewin says that "no wrong act or sinful deed can ever affect the believer’s salvation. The sinner did nothing to merit God’s grace and likewise he can do nothing to demerit grace. True, sinful conduct always lessens one’s fellowship with Christ, limits his contribution to God’s work and can result in serious disciplinary action by the Holy Spirit."
One problem with this argument is that this is not even how things work in everyday life. If another person gives us something as a grace—as a gift—and even if we did nothing to deserve it (though frequently gifts are given based on our having pleased the one bestowing the gift), it in no way follows that our actions are irrelevant to whether or not we keep the gift. We can lose it in all kinds of ways. We can misplace it, destroy it, give it to someone else, take it back to the store. We may even forfeit something we were given by later displeasing the one who gave it—as when a person has been appointed to a special position but is later stripped of that position on account of mismanagement.
The argument fares no better when one turns to Scripture, for one finds that Adam and Eve, who received God’s grace in a manner just as unmerited as anyone today, most definitely did demerit it—and lost grace not only for themselves but for us as well (cf. also Rom. 11:17-24). While the idea that what is received without merit cannot be lost by demerit may have a kind of poetic charm for some, it does not stand up when compared with the way things really work—either in the everyday world or in the Bible.
Regarding the issue of whether Christians have an "absolute" assurance of salvation, regardless of their actions, consider this warning Paul gave: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).
Related to the issue of whether one can lose one’s salvation is the question of whether one can know with complete certainty that one is in a state of salvation. Even if one could not lose one’s salvation, one still might not be sure whether one ever had salvation. Similarly, even if one could be sure that one is now in a state of salvation, one might be able to fall from grace in the future. The "knowability" of salvation is a different question than the "loseability" of salvation.
From the Radio Bible Class listeners can obtain a booklet called Can Anyone Really Know for Sure? The anonymous author says the "Lord Jesus wanted his followers to be so sure of their salvation that they would rejoice more in the expectation of heaven than in victories on earth. ‘These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God (1 John 5:13).’"
Places where Scripture speaks of our ability to know that we are abiding in grace are important and must be taken seriously. But they do not promise that we will be protected from self-deception on this matter. Even the author of Can Anyone Really Know for Sure? admits that there is a false assurance: "The New Testament teaches us that genuine assurance is possible and desirable, but it also warns us that we can be deceived through a false assurance. Jesus declared: ‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 7:21)."
Sometimes Fundamentalists portray Apostolic Christians as if they must every moment be in terror of losing their salvation since Catholics recognize that it is possible to lose salvation through mortal sin. Fundamentalists then hold out the idea that, rather than living every moment in terror, they can have a calm, assured knowledge that they will, in fact, be saved, and that nothing will ever be able to change this fact.
But this portrayal is in error. Apostolic Christians do not live lives of mortal terror concerning salvation. True, salvation can be lost through mortal sin, but such sins are by nature grave ones, and not the kind that a person living the Christian life is going to slip into committing on the spur of the moment, without deliberate thought and consent. Neither does the Church teach that one cannot have a relative assurance of salvation. This is true both of present and future salvation.
One can be confident of one’s present salvation. This is one of the chief reasons why God gave us the sacraments—to provide visible assurances that he is invisibly providing us with his grace. And one can be confident that one has not thrown away that grace by simply examining one’s life and seeing whether one has committed mortal sin. Indeed, the tests that John sets forth in his first epistle to help us know whether we are abiding in grace are, in essence, tests of whether we are dwelling in grave sin. For example, "By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother" (1 John 3:10), "If any one says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen" (1 John 4:20), "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3).
Likewise, by looking at the course of one’s life in grace and the resolution of one’s heart to keep following God, one can also have confidence of future salvation. It is this Paul speaks of when he writes to the Philippians and says, "And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6). This is not a promise for all Christians, or even necessarily all in the church at Philippi, but it is a confidence that the Philippian Christians in general would make it. The basis of this is their spiritual performance to date, and Paul feels a need to explain to them that there is a basis for his confidence in them. Thus he says, immediately, "It is right for me to feel thus about you all, because I hold you in my heart, for you are all partakers with me of grace, both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel" (1:7). The fact that the Philippians performed spiritually by assisting Paul in his imprisonment and ministry showed that their hearts were with God and that it could be expected that they, at least in general, would persevere and remain with God.
There are many saintly men and women who have long lived the Christian life and whose characters are marked with profound spiritual joy and peace. Such individuals can look forward with confidence to their reception in heaven.
Such an individual was Paul, writing at the end of his life, "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day" (2 Tim. 4:7-8). But earlier in life, even Paul did not claim an infallible assurance, either of his present justification or of his remaining in grace in the future. Concerning his present state, he wrote, "I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified [Gk., dedikaiomai]. It is the Lord who judges me" (1 Cor. 4:4). Concerning his remaining life, Paul was frank in admitting that even he could fall away: "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27). Of course, for a spiritual giant such as Paul, it would be quite unexpected and out of character for him to fall from God’s grace. Nevertheless, he points out that, however much confidence in his own salvation he may be warranted in feeling, even he cannot be infallibly sure either of his own present state or of his future course.
The same is true of us. We can, if our lives display a pattern of perseverance and spiritual fruit, have not only a confidence in our present state of grace but also of our future perseverance with God. Yet we cannot have an infallible certitude of our own salvation, as many Protestantswill admit. There is the possibility of self-deception (cf. Matt. 7:22-23). As Jeremiah expressed it, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?" (Jer. 17:9). There is also the possibility of falling from grace through mortal sin, and even of falling away from the faith entirely, for as Jesus told us, there are those who "believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away" (Luke 8:13). It is in the light of these warnings and admonitions that we must understand Scripture’s positive statements concerning our ability to know and have confidence in our salvation. Assurance we may have; infallible certitude we may not.
L
One can dissect the phrase "born again" and toss scripture around to backup one's idea of what this is, but let me ask you this, have you ever had the experience of being born again? Where in a split second, everything you thought was true about the world was cast away right before you, and you saw everything in a whole new light? Where you were filled with such joy and such an assurance that you were His, now and always?
Was this an olfactory experience I had? Yes, it was....and there is no way I can ever impart through words to another person what happened to me. And if you've never had it happen to you, it would be hard to comprehend it. At the same time, I don't need scripture to know what happened to me - I was born again, saved, forever. God can give us that assurance of salvation, that knowing deep in our soul. Was it "just" a feeling? Yes, but it was like none other I've ever had.
Was this an olfactory experience I had? Yes, it was....and there is no way I can ever impart through words to another person what happened to me. And if you've never had it happen to you, it would be hard to comprehend it. At the same time, I don't need scripture to know what happened to me - I was born again, saved, forever. God can give us that assurance of salvation, that knowing deep in our soul. Was it "just" a feeling? Yes, but it was like none other I've ever had.
S
Notion of infallible assurance is as silly as Faith Alone. Silly, unbiblical, irrational, never believed by early Christians, never taught by the Church. You need to get over this unchristian temptation.
This topic goes beyond simply believing if one has been saved. What the question also means is: "Don’t you wish you had the assurance of salvation?" Evangelicals and Fundamentalists think they do have such an absolute assurance. All they have to do is "accept Christ as their personal Savior," and it’s done. They might well live exemplary lives thereafter, but living well is not crucial and definitely does not affect their salvation.
Kenneth E. Hagin, a well-known Pentecostal televangelist from the "Word Faith" wing of Protestantism, asserts that this assurance of salvation comes through being "born again": "Unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). Though much of Hagin’s theology is considered bizarre in Protestant circles, his explanation of being born again could be endorsed by millions of Evangelical Protestants. In his booklet, The New Birth, Hagin writes, "The new birth is a necessity to being saved. Through the new birth you come into the right relationship with God."
According to Hagin, there are many things that this new birth is not. "The new birth is not: confirmation, church membership, water baptism, the taking of sacraments, observing religious duties, an intellectual reception of Christianity, orthodoxy of faith, going to church, saying prayers, reading the Bible, being moral, being cultured or refined, doing good deeds, doing your best, nor any of the many other things some men are trusting in to save them." Those who have obtained the new birth "did the one thing necessary: they accepted Jesus Christ as personal Savior by repenting and turning to God with the whole heart as a little child." That one act of the will, he explains, is all they needed to do. But is this true? Does the Bible support this concept?
Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
For many Fundamentalists and Evangelicals it makes no difference—as far as salvation is concerned—how you live or end your life. You can heed the altar call at church, announce that you’ve accepted Jesus as your personal Savior, and, so long as you really believe it, you’re set. From that point on there is nothing you can do, no sin you can commit, no matter how heinous, that will forfeit your salvation. You can’t undo your salvation, even if you wanted to.
Does this sound too good to be true? Yes, but nevertheless, it is something many Protestants claim. Take a look at what Wilson Ewin, the author of a booklet called There is Therefore Now No Condemnation, says. He writes that "the person who places his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his blood shed at Calvary is eternally secure. He can never lose his salvation. No personal breaking of God’s or man’s laws or commandments can nullify that status."
"To deny the assurance of salvation would be to deny Christ’s perfect redemption," argues Ewin, and this is something he can say only because he confuses the redemption that Christ accomplished for us objectively with our individual appropriation of that redemption. The truth is that in one sense we are all redeemed by Christ’s death on the cross—Christians, Jews, Muslims, even animists in the darkest forests (1 Tim. 2:6, 4:10, 1 John 2:2)—but our individual appropriation of what Christ provided is contingent on our response.
Certainly, Christ did die on the cross once for all and has entered into the holy place in heaven to appear before God on our behalf. Christ has abundantly provided for our salvation, but that does not mean that there is no process by which this is applied to us as individuals. Obviously, there is, or we would have been saved and justified from all eternity, with no need to repent or have faith or anything else. We would have been born "saved," with no need to be born again. Since we were not, since it is necessary for those who hear the gospel to repent and embrace it, there is a time at which we come to be reconciled to God. And if so, then we, like Adam and Eve, can become unreconciled with God and, like the prodigal son, need to come back and be reconciled again with God, after having left his family.
Ewin says that "no wrong act or sinful deed can ever affect the believer’s salvation. The sinner did nothing to merit God’s grace and likewise he can do nothing to demerit grace. True, sinful conduct always lessens one’s fellowship with Christ, limits his contribution to God’s work and can result in serious disciplinary action by the Holy Spirit."
One problem with this argument is that this is not even how things work in everyday life. If another person gives us something as a grace—as a gift—and even if we did nothing to deserve it (though frequently gifts are given based on our having pleased the one bestowing the gift), it in no way follows that our actions are irrelevant to whether or not we keep the gift. We can lose it in all kinds of ways. We can misplace it, destroy it, give it to someone else, take it back to the store. We may even forfeit something we were given by later displeasing the one who gave it—as when a person has been appointed to a special position but is later stripped of that position on account of mismanagement.
The argument fares no better when one turns to Scripture, for one finds that Adam and Eve, who received God’s grace in a manner just as unmerited as anyone today, most definitely did demerit it—and lost grace not only for themselves but for us as well (cf. also Rom. 11:17-24). While the idea that what is received without merit cannot be lost by demerit may have a kind of poetic charm for some, it does not stand up when compared with the way things really work—either in the everyday world or in the Bible.
Regarding the issue of whether Christians have an "absolute" assurance of salvation, regardless of their actions, consider this warning Paul gave: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).
Related to the issue of whether one can lose one’s salvation is the question of whether one can know with complete certainty that one is in a state of salvation. Even if one could not lose one’s salvation, one still might not be sure whether one ever had salvation. Similarly, even if one could be sure that one is now in a state of salvation, one might be able to fall from grace in the future. The "knowability" of salvation is a different question than the "loseability" of salvation.
From the Radio Bible Class listeners can obtain a booklet called Can Anyone Really Know for Sure? The anonymous author says the "Lord Jesus wanted his followers to be so sure of their salvation that they would rejoice more in the expectation of heaven than in victories on earth. ‘These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God (1 John 5:13).’"
Places where Scripture speaks of our ability to know that we are abiding in grace are important and must be taken seriously. But they do not promise that we will be protected from self-deception on this matter. Even the author of Can Anyone Really Know for Sure? admits that there is a false assurance: "The New Testament teaches us that genuine assurance is possible and desirable, but it also warns us that we can be deceived through a false assurance. Jesus declared: ‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 7:21)."
Sometimes Fundamentalists portray Apostolic Christians as if they must every moment be in terror of losing their salvation since Catholics recognize that it is possible to lose salvation through mortal sin. Fundamentalists then hold out the idea that, rather than living every moment in terror, they can have a calm, assured knowledge that they will, in fact, be saved, and that nothing will ever be able to change this fact.
But this portrayal is in error. Apostolic Christians do not live lives of mortal terror concerning salvation. True, salvation can be lost through mortal sin, but such sins are by nature grave ones, and not the kind that a person living the Christian life is going to slip into committing on the spur of the moment, without deliberate thought and consent. Neither does the Church teach that one cannot have a relative assurance of salvation. This is true both of present and future salvation.
One can be confident of one’s present salvation. This is one of the chief reasons why God gave us the sacraments—to provide visible assurances that he is invisibly providing us with his grace. And one can be confident that one has not thrown away that grace by simply examining one’s life and seeing whether one has committed mortal sin. Indeed, the tests that John sets forth in his first epistle to help us know whether we are abiding in grace are, in essence, tests of whether we are dwelling in grave sin. For example, "By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother" (1 John 3:10), "If any one says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen" (1 John 4:20), "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3).
Likewise, by looking at the course of one’s life in grace and the resolution of one’s heart to keep following God, one can also have confidence of future salvation. It is this Paul speaks of when he writes to the Philippians and says, "And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6). This is not a promise for all Christians, or even necessarily all in the church at Philippi, but it is a confidence that the Philippian Christians in general would make it. The basis of this is their spiritual performance to date, and Paul feels a need to explain to them that there is a basis for his confidence in them. Thus he says, immediately, "It is right for me to feel thus about you all, because I hold you in my heart, for you are all partakers with me of grace, both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel" (1:7). The fact that the Philippians performed spiritually by assisting Paul in his imprisonment and ministry showed that their hearts were with God and that it could be expected that they, at least in general, would persevere and remain with God.
There are many saintly men and women who have long lived the Christian life and whose characters are marked with profound spiritual joy and peace. Such individuals can look forward with confidence to their reception in heaven.
Such an individual was Paul, writing at the end of his life, "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day" (2 Tim. 4:7-8). But earlier in life, even Paul did not claim an infallible assurance, either of his present justification or of his remaining in grace in the future. Concerning his present state, he wrote, "I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified [Gk., dedikaiomai]. It is the Lord who judges me" (1 Cor. 4:4). Concerning his remaining life, Paul was frank in admitting that even he could fall away: "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27). Of course, for a spiritual giant such as Paul, it would be quite unexpected and out of character for him to fall from God’s grace. Nevertheless, he points out that, however much confidence in his own salvation he may be warranted in feeling, even he cannot be infallibly sure either of his own present state or of his future course.
The same is true of us. We can, if our lives display a pattern of perseverance and spiritual fruit, have not only a confidence in our present state of grace but also of our future perseverance with God. Yet we cannot have an infallible certitude of our own salvation, as many Protestantswill admit. There is the possibility of self-deception (cf. Matt. 7:22-23). As Jeremiah expressed it, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?" (Jer. 17:9). There is also the possibility of falling from grace through mortal sin, and even of falling away from the faith entirely, for as Jesus told us, there are those who "believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away" (Luke 8:13). It is in the light of these warnings and admonitions that we must understand Scripture’s positive statements concerning our ability to know and have confidence in our salvation. Assurance we may have; infallible certitude we may not.
This topic goes beyond simply believing if one has been saved. What the question also means is: "Don’t you wish you had the assurance of salvation?" Evangelicals and Fundamentalists think they do have such an absolute assurance. All they have to do is "accept Christ as their personal Savior," and it’s done. They might well live exemplary lives thereafter, but living well is not crucial and definitely does not affect their salvation.
Kenneth E. Hagin, a well-known Pentecostal televangelist from the "Word Faith" wing of Protestantism, asserts that this assurance of salvation comes through being "born again": "Unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3). Though much of Hagin’s theology is considered bizarre in Protestant circles, his explanation of being born again could be endorsed by millions of Evangelical Protestants. In his booklet, The New Birth, Hagin writes, "The new birth is a necessity to being saved. Through the new birth you come into the right relationship with God."
According to Hagin, there are many things that this new birth is not. "The new birth is not: confirmation, church membership, water baptism, the taking of sacraments, observing religious duties, an intellectual reception of Christianity, orthodoxy of faith, going to church, saying prayers, reading the Bible, being moral, being cultured or refined, doing good deeds, doing your best, nor any of the many other things some men are trusting in to save them." Those who have obtained the new birth "did the one thing necessary: they accepted Jesus Christ as personal Savior by repenting and turning to God with the whole heart as a little child." That one act of the will, he explains, is all they needed to do. But is this true? Does the Bible support this concept?
Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, "He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
For many Fundamentalists and Evangelicals it makes no difference—as far as salvation is concerned—how you live or end your life. You can heed the altar call at church, announce that you’ve accepted Jesus as your personal Savior, and, so long as you really believe it, you’re set. From that point on there is nothing you can do, no sin you can commit, no matter how heinous, that will forfeit your salvation. You can’t undo your salvation, even if you wanted to.
Does this sound too good to be true? Yes, but nevertheless, it is something many Protestants claim. Take a look at what Wilson Ewin, the author of a booklet called There is Therefore Now No Condemnation, says. He writes that "the person who places his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his blood shed at Calvary is eternally secure. He can never lose his salvation. No personal breaking of God’s or man’s laws or commandments can nullify that status."
"To deny the assurance of salvation would be to deny Christ’s perfect redemption," argues Ewin, and this is something he can say only because he confuses the redemption that Christ accomplished for us objectively with our individual appropriation of that redemption. The truth is that in one sense we are all redeemed by Christ’s death on the cross—Christians, Jews, Muslims, even animists in the darkest forests (1 Tim. 2:6, 4:10, 1 John 2:2)—but our individual appropriation of what Christ provided is contingent on our response.
Certainly, Christ did die on the cross once for all and has entered into the holy place in heaven to appear before God on our behalf. Christ has abundantly provided for our salvation, but that does not mean that there is no process by which this is applied to us as individuals. Obviously, there is, or we would have been saved and justified from all eternity, with no need to repent or have faith or anything else. We would have been born "saved," with no need to be born again. Since we were not, since it is necessary for those who hear the gospel to repent and embrace it, there is a time at which we come to be reconciled to God. And if so, then we, like Adam and Eve, can become unreconciled with God and, like the prodigal son, need to come back and be reconciled again with God, after having left his family.
Ewin says that "no wrong act or sinful deed can ever affect the believer’s salvation. The sinner did nothing to merit God’s grace and likewise he can do nothing to demerit grace. True, sinful conduct always lessens one’s fellowship with Christ, limits his contribution to God’s work and can result in serious disciplinary action by the Holy Spirit."
One problem with this argument is that this is not even how things work in everyday life. If another person gives us something as a grace—as a gift—and even if we did nothing to deserve it (though frequently gifts are given based on our having pleased the one bestowing the gift), it in no way follows that our actions are irrelevant to whether or not we keep the gift. We can lose it in all kinds of ways. We can misplace it, destroy it, give it to someone else, take it back to the store. We may even forfeit something we were given by later displeasing the one who gave it—as when a person has been appointed to a special position but is later stripped of that position on account of mismanagement.
The argument fares no better when one turns to Scripture, for one finds that Adam and Eve, who received God’s grace in a manner just as unmerited as anyone today, most definitely did demerit it—and lost grace not only for themselves but for us as well (cf. also Rom. 11:17-24). While the idea that what is received without merit cannot be lost by demerit may have a kind of poetic charm for some, it does not stand up when compared with the way things really work—either in the everyday world or in the Bible.
Regarding the issue of whether Christians have an "absolute" assurance of salvation, regardless of their actions, consider this warning Paul gave: "See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).
Related to the issue of whether one can lose one’s salvation is the question of whether one can know with complete certainty that one is in a state of salvation. Even if one could not lose one’s salvation, one still might not be sure whether one ever had salvation. Similarly, even if one could be sure that one is now in a state of salvation, one might be able to fall from grace in the future. The "knowability" of salvation is a different question than the "loseability" of salvation.
From the Radio Bible Class listeners can obtain a booklet called Can Anyone Really Know for Sure? The anonymous author says the "Lord Jesus wanted his followers to be so sure of their salvation that they would rejoice more in the expectation of heaven than in victories on earth. ‘These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God (1 John 5:13).’"
Places where Scripture speaks of our ability to know that we are abiding in grace are important and must be taken seriously. But they do not promise that we will be protected from self-deception on this matter. Even the author of Can Anyone Really Know for Sure? admits that there is a false assurance: "The New Testament teaches us that genuine assurance is possible and desirable, but it also warns us that we can be deceived through a false assurance. Jesus declared: ‘Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 7:21)."
Sometimes Fundamentalists portray Apostolic Christians as if they must every moment be in terror of losing their salvation since Catholics recognize that it is possible to lose salvation through mortal sin. Fundamentalists then hold out the idea that, rather than living every moment in terror, they can have a calm, assured knowledge that they will, in fact, be saved, and that nothing will ever be able to change this fact.
But this portrayal is in error. Apostolic Christians do not live lives of mortal terror concerning salvation. True, salvation can be lost through mortal sin, but such sins are by nature grave ones, and not the kind that a person living the Christian life is going to slip into committing on the spur of the moment, without deliberate thought and consent. Neither does the Church teach that one cannot have a relative assurance of salvation. This is true both of present and future salvation.
One can be confident of one’s present salvation. This is one of the chief reasons why God gave us the sacraments—to provide visible assurances that he is invisibly providing us with his grace. And one can be confident that one has not thrown away that grace by simply examining one’s life and seeing whether one has committed mortal sin. Indeed, the tests that John sets forth in his first epistle to help us know whether we are abiding in grace are, in essence, tests of whether we are dwelling in grave sin. For example, "By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother" (1 John 3:10), "If any one says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen" (1 John 4:20), "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3).
Likewise, by looking at the course of one’s life in grace and the resolution of one’s heart to keep following God, one can also have confidence of future salvation. It is this Paul speaks of when he writes to the Philippians and says, "And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6). This is not a promise for all Christians, or even necessarily all in the church at Philippi, but it is a confidence that the Philippian Christians in general would make it. The basis of this is their spiritual performance to date, and Paul feels a need to explain to them that there is a basis for his confidence in them. Thus he says, immediately, "It is right for me to feel thus about you all, because I hold you in my heart, for you are all partakers with me of grace, both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel" (1:7). The fact that the Philippians performed spiritually by assisting Paul in his imprisonment and ministry showed that their hearts were with God and that it could be expected that they, at least in general, would persevere and remain with God.
There are many saintly men and women who have long lived the Christian life and whose characters are marked with profound spiritual joy and peace. Such individuals can look forward with confidence to their reception in heaven.
Such an individual was Paul, writing at the end of his life, "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that Day" (2 Tim. 4:7-8). But earlier in life, even Paul did not claim an infallible assurance, either of his present justification or of his remaining in grace in the future. Concerning his present state, he wrote, "I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby justified [Gk., dedikaiomai]. It is the Lord who judges me" (1 Cor. 4:4). Concerning his remaining life, Paul was frank in admitting that even he could fall away: "I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27). Of course, for a spiritual giant such as Paul, it would be quite unexpected and out of character for him to fall from God’s grace. Nevertheless, he points out that, however much confidence in his own salvation he may be warranted in feeling, even he cannot be infallibly sure either of his own present state or of his future course.
The same is true of us. We can, if our lives display a pattern of perseverance and spiritual fruit, have not only a confidence in our present state of grace but also of our future perseverance with God. Yet we cannot have an infallible certitude of our own salvation, as many Protestantswill admit. There is the possibility of self-deception (cf. Matt. 7:22-23). As Jeremiah expressed it, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?" (Jer. 17:9). There is also the possibility of falling from grace through mortal sin, and even of falling away from the faith entirely, for as Jesus told us, there are those who "believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away" (Luke 8:13). It is in the light of these warnings and admonitions that we must understand Scripture’s positive statements concerning our ability to know and have confidence in our salvation. Assurance we may have; infallible certitude we may not.
One can dissect the phrase "born again" and toss scripture around to backup one's idea of what this is, but let me ask you this, have you ever had the experience of being born again? Where in a split second, everything you thought was true about the world was cast away right before you, and you saw everything in a whole new light? Where you were filled with such joy and such an assurance that you were His, now and always?
Was this an olfactory experience I had? Yes, it was....and there is no way I can ever impart through words to another person what happened to me. And if you've never had it happen to you, it would be hard to comprehend it. At the same time, I don't need scripture to know what happened to me - I was born again, saved, forever. God can give us that assurance of salvation, that knowing deep in our soul. Was it "just" a feeling? Yes, but it was like none other I've ever had.
Was this an olfactory experience I had? Yes, it was....and there is no way I can ever impart through words to another person what happened to me. And if you've never had it happen to you, it would be hard to comprehend it. At the same time, I don't need scripture to know what happened to me - I was born again, saved, forever. God can give us that assurance of salvation, that knowing deep in our soul. Was it "just" a feeling? Yes, but it was like none other I've ever had.
I have heard a number of similar experiences related to me. But let me share this with you: CHRISTIANITY HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FEELINGS. It is a FAITH based on REASON. Because one feels good, euphoric, what have you, does not support an inference that one has been "born again". One can feel lousy, yet one may be holding fast to the truth, be obedient, be JUSTIFIED IN GOD'S EYES. God does not necessarily reward one in this world for having grasped the Truth by making that person feel great. Most saints, many good people, have encountered pain, sacrifice, martyrdom, for doing the right thing.
DO NOT, let me repeat, DO NOT equate FEELINGS as a sign of being "born again", saved or whatever you call it. Feelings cannot be verified, either to others or to yourself. You may very well feel something, but why do you feel it? What do those feelings corroborate, if anything?
Think this thru carefully, I ask you. This has been a trap for many people.
God Bless.
Amen.
QUOTE: "not to mention the other 64 Books of Scripture"
There are 73 books in the Christian bible, so, you hopefully mean the other 71.
I have quoted scripture to the cup brims over, in all my posts on this topic [there have been many]. So, I suggest you would have been better off not saying anything, period.
God Bless.
Amen.
There are 73 books in the Christian bible, so, you hopefully mean the other 71.
I have quoted scripture to the cup brims over, in all my posts on this topic [there have been many]. So, I suggest you would have been better off not saying anything, period.
God Bless.
Amen.
L
CHRISTIANITY HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FEELINGS. It is a FAITH based on REASON.
What is faith? Faith: A belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. That definition seems to go contrary to your definition that faith is based on reason.
Where do you think that each of us gets our faith from? Just curious.
Well, well, well. The security of the believer a false doctrine - is that so? How could you have read the scriptures that were provided and make such a ridiculous statement?
L
Because one feels good, euphoric, what have you, does not support an inference that one has been "born again". One can feel lousy, yet one may be holding fast to the truth, be obedient, be JUSTIFIED IN GOD'S EYES. God does not necessarily reward one in this world for having grasped the Truth by making that person feel great. Most saints, many good people, have encountered pain, sacrifice, martyrdom, for doing the right thing.
When I was born again, saved, I knew absolutely nothing about God, about Jesus, about Satan, so it seems unlikely that this was just something I "conjured" up. But like I said, if you've never experienced it, you could hardly comprehend.
A
Some call it ETERNAL SECURITY, some call it PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS, some call it PRESERVATION OF THE SAINTS; no matter what you call it, is it a Biblical FACT or is it some denominational belief system?
Can YOU lay aside your feelings, prejudices, predispositions, preferences and all of the rest of that STUFF - and just make a decision based on Scripture? I DIDN’T THINK SO! But if you could, would what follows influence your thought on the matter?
Careful now - don’t shoot the messenger.
Alright, first off, let’s look at Romans 4:5. (All Scripture is taken from the Authorized Version, also known as the King James Version, and any deviation from this text is purely unintentional). The Bible says in Romans 4:5, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Now, this is the first of many verses we shall look at, but notice that to “him that believeth” his FAITH is counted as righteousness. Salvation, according to this verse, has nothing to do with “works” but whether or not a person “believes.” Also note that the “faith” of this person IS his righteousness. Let’s continue. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 1:8, “Who shall confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” The Bible says that the Lord Jesus Christ will “confirm” us until the “END” - not for a little bit, not for a year until we mess up, not for a decade until we commit some kind of “unpardonable” sin. The Bible says that we are confirmed until the END! The question then begs to be asked, do we believe the Bible or don’t we? Moving on. The Bible says in Philippians 1:6, “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” So who began the “good work” in us? God! Not us, not our works, not our “righteousness”, but the Lord of Glory! Also, it says that He “will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” Who performs it? Does the Bible say that we perform it? No, it says that the Lord performs it until the day of Jesus Christ. So if we lost our salvation, that means that God would have FAILED in performing it! Can God fail? What new doctrine is this? I guess it all depends on whether you believe the Bible or not. The Bible says in John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” This is a fairly well known and memorized verse, and it is quite simple in nature. But look closely at what it says. It says that if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you HAVE everlasting life. How long is everlasting life? Is it temporary? Does it last for a few months, a few years, a few hundred years? Hmmm I don’t think so. Everlasting life means IT LASTS FOR EVER!!!! And the Bible says that when we place our belief in the Lord Jesus, that we HAVE that life that LASTS FOR EVER! Is God’s Holy and Perfect Word LYING when it says this? “Let God be true but every man a liar.” The Bible says in John 5:24, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” This verse is very similar to the previous one we just discussed, but this verse adds a little extra “goodness”. Not only do we have “everlasting life”, but when we believe, we “SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION”. That’s what the BOOK says! So if we placed our belief in the Lord Jesus, then we lost our salvation, and died and entered into condemnation, that means that the BOOK has LIED!!!
That’s some heavy accusations against God Almighty my friend! The Bible says in John 6:37-39, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” Notice in verse 37 that the Lord Jesus says that if anyone comes to Him, He will never “cast them out.” Was the Lord Jesus Christ lying? God forbid that any man would even THINK such a thing! But verse 39 is the real “doozy”, as they say, for it says that Jesus Christ “should lose nothing.” Well, if we “lost” our salvation, that would mean that Jesus would lose one of His own. I guess Jesus makes a habit out of lying then doesn’t He? The Lord knows my heart, that I am in no way being blasphemous. I am speaking “tongue in cheek”, as they say. Of course Jesus Christ never lied, for if He did, then our beliefs amount to absolutely nothing! Anyway, onward and upward! The Bible says in John 10:28, “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” Again, this is the Lord Jesus Christ speaking here. He says that anyone who places their faith in Him shall “never perish”, and that no one can “pluck them” out of His hand! These verses are pretty straight forward. Not much of explanation is really needed. If we can lose our salvation, Jesus and God are LIARS! I sound like a broken record don’t I?
Back to the book of Romans we go! The BOOK says in Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” One of the most widely memorized verses ever, in most likeliness. It says that we are given “eternal life”. How long is it? How long does eternity last? A couple years? A month? A century? A millennium? Don’t think so. It lasts FOR EVER!!! That’s what the Bible says anyway. But really, who believes any of THAT anymore? But guess what? We have just scratched the surface! The Bible says in Romans 8:29-30, “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Where to begin. The question is, did the Lord foreknow you to save you? Yes? No? Make up your mind, because it only gets “better from here.” Did He foreknow you to save you? Yes? There you go. So if He foreknew you, He predestinated you. If He predestinated you, He called you. Did He call you? Did He call you to Himself to be saved? Yes? Now we’re making progress! Well, if He called you, then He justified you! And if He justified you, then He GLORIFIED you! I’m sorry, did I miss the part about losing your calling and going to hell? I must have overlooked that somewhere. Oh wait, it wasn’t me, it was GOD who must have overlooked that little detail. Please, that’s not what the Bible says! I mean, we have to establish some kind of AUTHORITY here to base our beliefs on, right? We just can’t have people running around and spouting off about “well this feels right to ME” and “well I’ve just always believed” and “But I THINK” and all this business. We need an AUTHORITY! No? Well, my AUTHORITY is the Holy Bible, and that BOOK says that if He called me, then He GLORIFIED me! I have absolutely NOTHING to do with it! It’s not my works, my righteousness, my “keeping of the law” or any of this business. It is GOD and GOD alone.
Now of course, this does not mean that a man can “get saved” and then go about his business and live like the devil himself. But see, here’s the good part. If a man gets truly saved, he won’t do that ANYWAY! Look down at verse 33 of the same chapter we are in, which says, “Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.” See? Who can lay any sin at my feet? Can you? Can your pastor? Can anyone? Of course not. It is GOD that does ALL THE WORK!! I mean let’s face it, if it was left up to me or to you or to any flesh and blood man that walks to earth to get to heaven through our works, we would be “in a world of dung” as the Marines say. The Pharisees were some of the most, if not the most, religious people to ever set foot on the ground, but what did Jesus say to them? “Ye generation of vipers, ye shall receive the GREATER ****ATION.” Well, how’s THAT for offensive? The BOOK says in Ephesians 1:13, “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.” What does the verse SAY? Not what do you THINK it says. What does it say? It says that we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit. We are sealed my friend! And let me tell you something, when God seals a fellow, I don’t care who tries to “un-seal” him, it “ain’t happenin’”, as they say in Tennessee. The BOOK says in Ephesians 5:30, “For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.” Now here’s an interesting twist. If we “lost” our salvation and ended up burning in hell, we would be taking a part of Jesus Christ to burn in hell with us! What a shock! Now, now, let’s not get too excited, I’m just quoting Scripture! The BOOK says that we are PART of Christ, LITERALLY! So if we “went to hell” after becoming a member in the “Body of Christ”, we would take part of that body with us into eternal ****ation! I smell something “fishy”, don’t you? The BOOK says in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.” So, God did not appoint us to “wrath”. I would say that hell probably qualifies as “wrath” wouldn’t you? Remember, the Scripture is not to be “privately interpreted”. I’m just quoting Scripture! Look at verse 24 in the same chapter, which says, “Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.” Well, if we remember from Romans, it is God who calls us, and this verse says that He “WILL DO IT.” Now if we lost our salvation and went to hell, God did not “DO IT”, GOD FAILED!!! Now, now, children, we know that God cannot fail, and He cannot LIE. But if we lose our salvation, God DOES BOTH! “Let God be true but every man a liar.” The BOOK says in 2 Timothy 1:9, “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.” Again, the BOOK says that our salvation (and our retaining of it for that matter) have absolutely nothing to do with “our works” but only through the “grace” of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is starting to become redundant, no? Alright, once more with feeling! The BOOK says in 1 Peter 1:3-5, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance, incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” We shall end here. I don’t think any comment even needs to be made on the verses, they speak for themselves. The “gist” of the passage is this, we were given an “inheritance” that “fadeth not away” (there goes the losing of salvation, again), and it is “reserved” in heaven for us. There it is. I don’t know how much more could be said. Now you used Hebrews 10:26 in the chat room the other day to “prove” that we can lose salvation; the verse is as follows, “For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remained no more sacrifice for sins.” First of all, the verse is addressing those who have “knowledge of the truth.” That’s what the verse SAYS. A lot of people have “knowledge of the truth” who are NOT saved, I can assure you. If you’ve ever witnessed to someone and they did everything but spit in your face, they now have “knowledge” of the truth, but they are NOT saved. Second of all, the “sacrifice” being referred to in the verse is a reference to the Jewish sacrifice for sins of the Old Testament that is NO LONGER EFFICIENT. Always look at the rest of the TEXT for clarification. For in verse 28 we see that it is the law of MOSES that is being discussed. And of course, it always helps to read the entire passage and not just pull out one verse, for the end of the chapter says in verse 39, “But we are NOT OF THEM (emphasis mine) who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.” The people being referred to in verse 26 are not the Church, and Paul plainly states so at the end of the passage. God Bless.
Can YOU lay aside your feelings, prejudices, predispositions, preferences and all of the rest of that STUFF - and just make a decision based on Scripture? I DIDN’T THINK SO! But if you could, would what follows influence your thought on the matter?
Careful now - don’t shoot the messenger.
Alright, first off, let’s look at Romans 4:5. (All Scripture is taken from the Authorized Version, also known as the King James Version, and any deviation from this text is purely unintentional). The Bible says in Romans 4:5, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Now, this is the first of many verses we shall look at, but notice that to “him that believeth” his FAITH is counted as righteousness. Salvation, according to this verse, has nothing to do with “works” but whether or not a person “believes.” Also note that the “faith” of this person IS his righteousness. Let’s continue. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 1:8, “Who shall confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” The Bible says that the Lord Jesus Christ will “confirm” us until the “END” - not for a little bit, not for a year until we mess up, not for a decade until we commit some kind of “unpardonable” sin. The Bible says that we are confirmed until the END! The question then begs to be asked, do we believe the Bible or don’t we? Moving on. The Bible says in Philippians 1:6, “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” So who began the “good work” in us? God! Not us, not our works, not our “righteousness”, but the Lord of Glory! Also, it says that He “will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” Who performs it? Does the Bible say that we perform it? No, it says that the Lord performs it until the day of Jesus Christ. So if we lost our salvation, that means that God would have FAILED in performing it! Can God fail? What new doctrine is this? I guess it all depends on whether you believe the Bible or not. The Bible says in John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” This is a fairly well known and memorized verse, and it is quite simple in nature. But look closely at what it says. It says that if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you HAVE everlasting life. How long is everlasting life? Is it temporary? Does it last for a few months, a few years, a few hundred years? Hmmm I don’t think so. Everlasting life means IT LASTS FOR EVER!!!! And the Bible says that when we place our belief in the Lord Jesus, that we HAVE that life that LASTS FOR EVER! Is God’s Holy and Perfect Word LYING when it says this? “Let God be true but every man a liar.” The Bible says in John 5:24, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” This verse is very similar to the previous one we just discussed, but this verse adds a little extra “goodness”. Not only do we have “everlasting life”, but when we believe, we “SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION”. That’s what the BOOK says! So if we placed our belief in the Lord Jesus, then we lost our salvation, and died and entered into condemnation, that means that the BOOK has LIED!!!
That’s some heavy accusations against God Almighty my friend! The Bible says in John 6:37-39, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” Notice in verse 37 that the Lord Jesus says that if anyone comes to Him, He will never “cast them out.” Was the Lord Jesus Christ lying? God forbid that any man would even THINK such a thing! But verse 39 is the real “doozy”, as they say, for it says that Jesus Christ “should lose nothing.” Well, if we “lost” our salvation, that would mean that Jesus would lose one of His own. I guess Jesus makes a habit out of lying then doesn’t He? The Lord knows my heart, that I am in no way being blasphemous. I am speaking “tongue in cheek”, as they say. Of course Jesus Christ never lied, for if He did, then our beliefs amount to absolutely nothing! Anyway, onward and upward! The Bible says in John 10:28, “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” Again, this is the Lord Jesus Christ speaking here. He says that anyone who places their faith in Him shall “never perish”, and that no one can “pluck them” out of His hand! These verses are pretty straight forward. Not much of explanation is really needed. If we can lose our salvation, Jesus and God are LIARS! I sound like a broken record don’t I?
Back to the book of Romans we go! The BOOK says in Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” One of the most widely memorized verses ever, in most likeliness. It says that we are given “eternal life”. How long is it? How long does eternity last? A couple years? A month? A century? A millennium? Don’t think so. It lasts FOR EVER!!! That’s what the Bible says anyway. But really, who believes any of THAT anymore? But guess what? We have just scratched the surface! The Bible says in Romans 8:29-30, “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Where to begin. The question is, did the Lord foreknow you to save you? Yes? No? Make up your mind, because it only gets “better from here.” Did He foreknow you to save you? Yes? There you go. So if He foreknew you, He predestinated you. If He predestinated you, He called you. Did He call you? Did He call you to Himself to be saved? Yes? Now we’re making progress! Well, if He called you, then He justified you! And if He justified you, then He GLORIFIED you! I’m sorry, did I miss the part about losing your calling and going to hell? I must have overlooked that somewhere. Oh wait, it wasn’t me, it was GOD who must have overlooked that little detail. Please, that’s not what the Bible says! I mean, we have to establish some kind of AUTHORITY here to base our beliefs on, right? We just can’t have people running around and spouting off about “well this feels right to ME” and “well I’ve just always believed” and “But I THINK” and all this business. We need an AUTHORITY! No? Well, my AUTHORITY is the Holy Bible, and that BOOK says that if He called me, then He GLORIFIED me! I have absolutely NOTHING to do with it! It’s not my works, my righteousness, my “keeping of the law” or any of this business. It is GOD and GOD alone.
Now of course, this does not mean that a man can “get saved” and then go about his business and live like the devil himself. But see, here’s the good part. If a man gets truly saved, he won’t do that ANYWAY! Look down at verse 33 of the same chapter we are in, which says, “Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.” See? Who can lay any sin at my feet? Can you? Can your pastor? Can anyone? Of course not. It is GOD that does ALL THE WORK!! I mean let’s face it, if it was left up to me or to you or to any flesh and blood man that walks to earth to get to heaven through our works, we would be “in a world of dung” as the Marines say. The Pharisees were some of the most, if not the most, religious people to ever set foot on the ground, but what did Jesus say to them? “Ye generation of vipers, ye shall receive the GREATER ****ATION.” Well, how’s THAT for offensive? The BOOK says in Ephesians 1:13, “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.” What does the verse SAY? Not what do you THINK it says. What does it say? It says that we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit. We are sealed my friend! And let me tell you something, when God seals a fellow, I don’t care who tries to “un-seal” him, it “ain’t happenin’”, as they say in Tennessee. The BOOK says in Ephesians 5:30, “For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.” Now here’s an interesting twist. If we “lost” our salvation and ended up burning in hell, we would be taking a part of Jesus Christ to burn in hell with us! What a shock! Now, now, let’s not get too excited, I’m just quoting Scripture! The BOOK says that we are PART of Christ, LITERALLY! So if we “went to hell” after becoming a member in the “Body of Christ”, we would take part of that body with us into eternal ****ation! I smell something “fishy”, don’t you? The BOOK says in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.” So, God did not appoint us to “wrath”. I would say that hell probably qualifies as “wrath” wouldn’t you? Remember, the Scripture is not to be “privately interpreted”. I’m just quoting Scripture! Look at verse 24 in the same chapter, which says, “Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.” Well, if we remember from Romans, it is God who calls us, and this verse says that He “WILL DO IT.” Now if we lost our salvation and went to hell, God did not “DO IT”, GOD FAILED!!! Now, now, children, we know that God cannot fail, and He cannot LIE. But if we lose our salvation, God DOES BOTH! “Let God be true but every man a liar.” The BOOK says in 2 Timothy 1:9, “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.” Again, the BOOK says that our salvation (and our retaining of it for that matter) have absolutely nothing to do with “our works” but only through the “grace” of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is starting to become redundant, no? Alright, once more with feeling! The BOOK says in 1 Peter 1:3-5, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance, incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” We shall end here. I don’t think any comment even needs to be made on the verses, they speak for themselves. The “gist” of the passage is this, we were given an “inheritance” that “fadeth not away” (there goes the losing of salvation, again), and it is “reserved” in heaven for us. There it is. I don’t know how much more could be said. Now you used Hebrews 10:26 in the chat room the other day to “prove” that we can lose salvation; the verse is as follows, “For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remained no more sacrifice for sins.” First of all, the verse is addressing those who have “knowledge of the truth.” That’s what the verse SAYS. A lot of people have “knowledge of the truth” who are NOT saved, I can assure you. If you’ve ever witnessed to someone and they did everything but spit in your face, they now have “knowledge” of the truth, but they are NOT saved. Second of all, the “sacrifice” being referred to in the verse is a reference to the Jewish sacrifice for sins of the Old Testament that is NO LONGER EFFICIENT. Always look at the rest of the TEXT for clarification. For in verse 28 we see that it is the law of MOSES that is being discussed. And of course, it always helps to read the entire passage and not just pull out one verse, for the end of the chapter says in verse 39, “But we are NOT OF THEM (emphasis mine) who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.” The people being referred to in verse 26 are not the Church, and Paul plainly states so at the end of the passage. God Bless.
1) That one is saved if they are on a church roll.
2) That one is saved if other members of their family are saved.
3) That one is saved if they confess Jesus is Lord, and then they can live like they want to
Slavation is conditionary , Jesus made it clear "if you follow My commandments"
All Ten Commadments are still inforce. Jesus made that clear also.
Some call it ETERNAL SECURITY, some call it PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS, some call it PRESERVATION OF THE SAINTS; no matter what you call it, is it a Biblical FACT or is it some denominational belief system?
Can YOU lay aside your feelings, prejudices, predispositions, preferences and all of the rest of that STUFF - and just make a decision based on Scripture? I DIDN’T THINK SO! But if you could, would what follows influence your thought on the matter?
Careful now - don’t shoot the messenger.
Alright, first off, let’s look at Romans 4:5. (All Scripture is taken from the Authorized Version, also known as the King James Version, and any deviation from this text is purely unintentional). The Bible says in Romans 4:5, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Now, this is the first of many verses we shall look at, but notice that to “him that believeth” his FAITH is counted as righteousness. Salvation, according to this verse, has nothing to do with “works” but whether or not a person “believes.” Also note that the “faith” of this person IS his righteousness. Let’s continue. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 1:8, “Who shall confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” The Bible says that the Lord Jesus Christ will “confirm” us until the “END” - not for a little bit, not for a year until we mess up, not for a decade until we commit some kind of “unpardonable” sin. The Bible says that we are confirmed until the END! The question then begs to be asked, do we believe the Bible or don’t we? Moving on. The Bible says in Philippians 1:6, “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” So who began the “good work” in us? God! Not us, not our works, not our “righteousness”, but the Lord of Glory! Also, it says that He “will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” Who performs it? Does the Bible say that we perform it? No, it says that the Lord performs it until the day of Jesus Christ. So if we lost our salvation, that means that God would have FAILED in performing it! Can God fail? What new doctrine is this? I guess it all depends on whether you believe the Bible or not. The Bible says in John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” This is a fairly well known and memorized verse, and it is quite simple in nature. But look closely at what it says. It says that if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you HAVE everlasting life. How long is everlasting life? Is it temporary? Does it last for a few months, a few years, a few hundred years? Hmmm I don’t think so. Everlasting life means IT LASTS FOR EVER!!!! And the Bible says that when we place our belief in the Lord Jesus, that we HAVE that life that LASTS FOR EVER! Is God’s Holy and Perfect Word LYING when it says this? “Let God be true but every man a liar.” The Bible says in John 5:24, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” This verse is very similar to the previous one we just discussed, but this verse adds a little extra “goodness”. Not only do we have “everlasting life”, but when we believe, we “SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION”. That’s what the BOOK says! So if we placed our belief in the Lord Jesus, then we lost our salvation, and died and entered into condemnation, that means that the BOOK has LIED!!!
That’s some heavy accusations against God Almighty my friend! The Bible says in John 6:37-39, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” Notice in verse 37 that the Lord Jesus says that if anyone comes to Him, He will never “cast them out.” Was the Lord Jesus Christ lying? God forbid that any man would even THINK such a thing! But verse 39 is the real “doozy”, as they say, for it says that Jesus Christ “should lose nothing.” Well, if we “lost” our salvation, that would mean that Jesus would lose one of His own. I guess Jesus makes a habit out of lying then doesn’t He? The Lord knows my heart, that I am in no way being blasphemous. I am speaking “tongue in cheek”, as they say. Of course Jesus Christ never lied, for if He did, then our beliefs amount to absolutely nothing! Anyway, onward and upward! The Bible says in John 10:28, “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” Again, this is the Lord Jesus Christ speaking here. He says that anyone who places their faith in Him shall “never perish”, and that no one can “pluck them” out of His hand! These verses are pretty straight forward. Not much of explanation is really needed. If we can lose our salvation, Jesus and God are LIARS! I sound like a broken record don’t I?
Back to the book of Romans we go! The BOOK says in Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” One of the most widely memorized verses ever, in most likeliness. It says that we are given “eternal life”. How long is it? How long does eternity last? A couple years? A month? A century? A millennium? Don’t think so. It lasts FOR EVER!!! That’s what the Bible says anyway. But really, who believes any of THAT anymore? But guess what? We have just scratched the surface! The Bible says in Romans 8:29-30, “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Where to begin. The question is, did the Lord foreknow you to save you? Yes? No? Make up your mind, because it only gets “better from here.” Did He foreknow you to save you? Yes? There you go. So if He foreknew you, He predestinated you. If He predestinated you, He called you. Did He call you? Did He call you to Himself to be saved? Yes? Now we’re making progress! Well, if He called you, then He justified you! And if He justified you, then He GLORIFIED you! I’m sorry, did I miss the part about losing your calling and going to hell? I must have overlooked that somewhere. Oh wait, it wasn’t me, it was GOD who must have overlooked that little detail. Please, that’s not what the Bible says! I mean, we have to establish some kind of AUTHORITY here to base our beliefs on, right? We just can’t have people running around and spouting off about “well this feels right to ME” and “well I’ve just always believed” and “But I THINK” and all this business. We need an AUTHORITY! No? Well, my AUTHORITY is the Holy Bible, and that BOOK says that if He called me, then He GLORIFIED me! I have absolutely NOTHING to do with it! It’s not my works, my righteousness, my “keeping of the law” or any of this business. It is GOD and GOD alone.
Now of course, this does not mean that a man can “get saved” and then go about his business and live like the devil himself. But see, here’s the good part. If a man gets truly saved, he won’t do that ANYWAY! Look down at verse 33 of the same chapter we are in, which says, “Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.” See? Who can lay any sin at my feet? Can you? Can your pastor? Can anyone? Of course not. It is GOD that does ALL THE WORK!! I mean let’s face it, if it was left up to me or to you or to any flesh and blood man that walks to earth to get to heaven through our works, we would be “in a world of dung” as the Marines say. The Pharisees were some of the most, if not the most, religious people to ever set foot on the ground, but what did Jesus say to them? “Ye generation of vipers, ye shall receive the GREATER ****ATION.” Well, how’s THAT for offensive? The BOOK says in Ephesians 1:13, “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.” What does the verse SAY? Not what do you THINK it says. What does it say? It says that we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit. We are sealed my friend! And let me tell you something, when God seals a fellow, I don’t care who tries to “un-seal” him, it “ain’t happenin’”, as they say in Tennessee. The BOOK says in Ephesians 5:30, “For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.” Now here’s an interesting twist. If we “lost” our salvation and ended up burning in hell, we would be taking a part of Jesus Christ to burn in hell with us! What a shock! Now, now, let’s not get too excited, I’m just quoting Scripture! The BOOK says that we are PART of Christ, LITERALLY! So if we “went to hell” after becoming a member in the “Body of Christ”, we would take part of that body with us into eternal ****ation! I smell something “fishy”, don’t you? The BOOK says in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.” So, God did not appoint us to “wrath”. I would say that hell probably qualifies as “wrath” wouldn’t you? Remember, the Scripture is not to be “privately interpreted”. I’m just quoting Scripture! Look at verse 24 in the same chapter, which says, “Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.” Well, if we remember from Romans, it is God who calls us, and this verse says that He “WILL DO IT.” Now if we lost our salvation and went to hell, God did not “DO IT”, GOD FAILED!!! Now, now, children, we know that God cannot fail, and He cannot LIE. But if we lose our salvation, God DOES BOTH! “Let God be true but every man a liar.” The BOOK says in 2 Timothy 1:9, “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.” Again, the BOOK says that our salvation (and our retaining of it for that matter) have absolutely nothing to do with “our works” but only through the “grace” of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is starting to become redundant, no? Alright, once more with feeling! The BOOK says in 1 Peter 1:3-5, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance, incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” We shall end here. I don’t think any comment even needs to be made on the verses, they speak for themselves. The “gist” of the passage is this, we were given an “inheritance” that “fadeth not away” (there goes the losing of salvation, again), and it is “reserved” in heaven for us. There it is. I don’t know how much more could be said. Now you used Hebrews 10:26 in the chat room the other day to “prove” that we can lose salvation; the verse is as follows, “For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remained no more sacrifice for sins.” First of all, the verse is addressing those who have “knowledge of the truth.” That’s what the verse SAYS. A lot of people have “knowledge of the truth” who are NOT saved, I can assure you. If you’ve ever witnessed to someone and they did everything but spit in your face, they now have “knowledge” of the truth, but they are NOT saved. Second of all, the “sacrifice” being referred to in the verse is a reference to the Jewish sacrifice for sins of the Old Testament that is NO LONGER EFFICIENT. Always look at the rest of the TEXT for clarification. For in verse 28 we see that it is the law of MOSES that is being discussed. And of course, it always helps to read the entire passage and not just pull out one verse, for the end of the chapter says in verse 39, “But we are NOT OF THEM (emphasis mine) who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.” The people being referred to in verse 26 are not the Church, and Paul plainly states so at the end of the passage. God Bless.
Can YOU lay aside your feelings, prejudices, predispositions, preferences and all of the rest of that STUFF - and just make a decision based on Scripture? I DIDN’T THINK SO! But if you could, would what follows influence your thought on the matter?
Careful now - don’t shoot the messenger.
Alright, first off, let’s look at Romans 4:5. (All Scripture is taken from the Authorized Version, also known as the King James Version, and any deviation from this text is purely unintentional). The Bible says in Romans 4:5, “But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” Now, this is the first of many verses we shall look at, but notice that to “him that believeth” his FAITH is counted as righteousness. Salvation, according to this verse, has nothing to do with “works” but whether or not a person “believes.” Also note that the “faith” of this person IS his righteousness. Let’s continue. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 1:8, “Who shall confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” The Bible says that the Lord Jesus Christ will “confirm” us until the “END” - not for a little bit, not for a year until we mess up, not for a decade until we commit some kind of “unpardonable” sin. The Bible says that we are confirmed until the END! The question then begs to be asked, do we believe the Bible or don’t we? Moving on. The Bible says in Philippians 1:6, “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” So who began the “good work” in us? God! Not us, not our works, not our “righteousness”, but the Lord of Glory! Also, it says that He “will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.” Who performs it? Does the Bible say that we perform it? No, it says that the Lord performs it until the day of Jesus Christ. So if we lost our salvation, that means that God would have FAILED in performing it! Can God fail? What new doctrine is this? I guess it all depends on whether you believe the Bible or not. The Bible says in John 3:36, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.” This is a fairly well known and memorized verse, and it is quite simple in nature. But look closely at what it says. It says that if you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you HAVE everlasting life. How long is everlasting life? Is it temporary? Does it last for a few months, a few years, a few hundred years? Hmmm I don’t think so. Everlasting life means IT LASTS FOR EVER!!!! And the Bible says that when we place our belief in the Lord Jesus, that we HAVE that life that LASTS FOR EVER! Is God’s Holy and Perfect Word LYING when it says this? “Let God be true but every man a liar.” The Bible says in John 5:24, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” This verse is very similar to the previous one we just discussed, but this verse adds a little extra “goodness”. Not only do we have “everlasting life”, but when we believe, we “SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION”. That’s what the BOOK says! So if we placed our belief in the Lord Jesus, then we lost our salvation, and died and entered into condemnation, that means that the BOOK has LIED!!!
That’s some heavy accusations against God Almighty my friend! The Bible says in John 6:37-39, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” Notice in verse 37 that the Lord Jesus says that if anyone comes to Him, He will never “cast them out.” Was the Lord Jesus Christ lying? God forbid that any man would even THINK such a thing! But verse 39 is the real “doozy”, as they say, for it says that Jesus Christ “should lose nothing.” Well, if we “lost” our salvation, that would mean that Jesus would lose one of His own. I guess Jesus makes a habit out of lying then doesn’t He? The Lord knows my heart, that I am in no way being blasphemous. I am speaking “tongue in cheek”, as they say. Of course Jesus Christ never lied, for if He did, then our beliefs amount to absolutely nothing! Anyway, onward and upward! The Bible says in John 10:28, “And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” Again, this is the Lord Jesus Christ speaking here. He says that anyone who places their faith in Him shall “never perish”, and that no one can “pluck them” out of His hand! These verses are pretty straight forward. Not much of explanation is really needed. If we can lose our salvation, Jesus and God are LIARS! I sound like a broken record don’t I?
Back to the book of Romans we go! The BOOK says in Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” One of the most widely memorized verses ever, in most likeliness. It says that we are given “eternal life”. How long is it? How long does eternity last? A couple years? A month? A century? A millennium? Don’t think so. It lasts FOR EVER!!! That’s what the Bible says anyway. But really, who believes any of THAT anymore? But guess what? We have just scratched the surface! The Bible says in Romans 8:29-30, “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.” Where to begin. The question is, did the Lord foreknow you to save you? Yes? No? Make up your mind, because it only gets “better from here.” Did He foreknow you to save you? Yes? There you go. So if He foreknew you, He predestinated you. If He predestinated you, He called you. Did He call you? Did He call you to Himself to be saved? Yes? Now we’re making progress! Well, if He called you, then He justified you! And if He justified you, then He GLORIFIED you! I’m sorry, did I miss the part about losing your calling and going to hell? I must have overlooked that somewhere. Oh wait, it wasn’t me, it was GOD who must have overlooked that little detail. Please, that’s not what the Bible says! I mean, we have to establish some kind of AUTHORITY here to base our beliefs on, right? We just can’t have people running around and spouting off about “well this feels right to ME” and “well I’ve just always believed” and “But I THINK” and all this business. We need an AUTHORITY! No? Well, my AUTHORITY is the Holy Bible, and that BOOK says that if He called me, then He GLORIFIED me! I have absolutely NOTHING to do with it! It’s not my works, my righteousness, my “keeping of the law” or any of this business. It is GOD and GOD alone.
Now of course, this does not mean that a man can “get saved” and then go about his business and live like the devil himself. But see, here’s the good part. If a man gets truly saved, he won’t do that ANYWAY! Look down at verse 33 of the same chapter we are in, which says, “Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.” See? Who can lay any sin at my feet? Can you? Can your pastor? Can anyone? Of course not. It is GOD that does ALL THE WORK!! I mean let’s face it, if it was left up to me or to you or to any flesh and blood man that walks to earth to get to heaven through our works, we would be “in a world of dung” as the Marines say. The Pharisees were some of the most, if not the most, religious people to ever set foot on the ground, but what did Jesus say to them? “Ye generation of vipers, ye shall receive the GREATER ****ATION.” Well, how’s THAT for offensive? The BOOK says in Ephesians 1:13, “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.” What does the verse SAY? Not what do you THINK it says. What does it say? It says that we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit. We are sealed my friend! And let me tell you something, when God seals a fellow, I don’t care who tries to “un-seal” him, it “ain’t happenin’”, as they say in Tennessee. The BOOK says in Ephesians 5:30, “For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.” Now here’s an interesting twist. If we “lost” our salvation and ended up burning in hell, we would be taking a part of Jesus Christ to burn in hell with us! What a shock! Now, now, let’s not get too excited, I’m just quoting Scripture! The BOOK says that we are PART of Christ, LITERALLY! So if we “went to hell” after becoming a member in the “Body of Christ”, we would take part of that body with us into eternal ****ation! I smell something “fishy”, don’t you? The BOOK says in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.” So, God did not appoint us to “wrath”. I would say that hell probably qualifies as “wrath” wouldn’t you? Remember, the Scripture is not to be “privately interpreted”. I’m just quoting Scripture! Look at verse 24 in the same chapter, which says, “Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.” Well, if we remember from Romans, it is God who calls us, and this verse says that He “WILL DO IT.” Now if we lost our salvation and went to hell, God did not “DO IT”, GOD FAILED!!! Now, now, children, we know that God cannot fail, and He cannot LIE. But if we lose our salvation, God DOES BOTH! “Let God be true but every man a liar.” The BOOK says in 2 Timothy 1:9, “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began.” Again, the BOOK says that our salvation (and our retaining of it for that matter) have absolutely nothing to do with “our works” but only through the “grace” of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is starting to become redundant, no? Alright, once more with feeling! The BOOK says in 1 Peter 1:3-5, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance, incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” We shall end here. I don’t think any comment even needs to be made on the verses, they speak for themselves. The “gist” of the passage is this, we were given an “inheritance” that “fadeth not away” (there goes the losing of salvation, again), and it is “reserved” in heaven for us. There it is. I don’t know how much more could be said. Now you used Hebrews 10:26 in the chat room the other day to “prove” that we can lose salvation; the verse is as follows, “For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remained no more sacrifice for sins.” First of all, the verse is addressing those who have “knowledge of the truth.” That’s what the verse SAYS. A lot of people have “knowledge of the truth” who are NOT saved, I can assure you. If you’ve ever witnessed to someone and they did everything but spit in your face, they now have “knowledge” of the truth, but they are NOT saved. Second of all, the “sacrifice” being referred to in the verse is a reference to the Jewish sacrifice for sins of the Old Testament that is NO LONGER EFFICIENT. Always look at the rest of the TEXT for clarification. For in verse 28 we see that it is the law of MOSES that is being discussed. And of course, it always helps to read the entire passage and not just pull out one verse, for the end of the chapter says in verse 39, “But we are NOT OF THEM (emphasis mine) who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.” The people being referred to in verse 26 are not the Church, and Paul plainly states so at the end of the passage. God Bless.
First of all, in Romans, Paul is referring to "works of the law" or "works of righteousness". This refers to Mosaic Law or rituals. Paul is criticizing those Jews who think God was obligated to forgive them as long as they fulfilled what the Mosaic Law prescribed for their type of sin or offense. Paul is saying such "works of the law" do not come from the heart, do not come from God's grace, therefore, they will not save you from your sins. He was comparing this type of mentality to a worker who feels the employer is obligated to pay him his wage. Paul says God is NOT your employer; you, a mortal, cannot obligate him by fulfilling what the Mosaic Law prescribed.
Therefore, your references from Romans does not pass muster. Paul is not criticizing good works or works of charity. I have posted on this topic, many, many times. Evidently, you have not read my post.
John 5:24 - note that "eternal life" here means sanctifying grace (the life of God within us). We can choose to fall from this grace.
Rom. 6:23 – this is why Paul says the "wages" of sin is death. Eternal life is a free gift from God. We cannot obligate God to pay us for our works; otherwise, we are in a system of law, not a system of grace.
Eph. 2:8-9 - we have been saved by grace through faith, not because of "works," lest anyone boast. This much-quoted verse by Protestants refers to the "works" of the Mosaic law or any works performed in a legalistic sense, where we view God as a debtor to us, and not as our heavenly Father. Paul is teaching us that, with the coming of Christ, we are now saved by grace through faith, not by Mosaic or legal works.
This is why Paul refers to “works of ourselves” and so we can’t “boast.” Paul says the same thing about “works” Rom. 4:2,4 – if Abraham was justified by “works,” he would have something to “boast” about. Here, the wages are not counted as grace, but debt. “Boasting” does not attribute works to God, but to oneself. But good works done in faith are necessary for justification (James 2:24, etc.) because we receive rewards by grace, not by legal obligation, and we attribute these works to God, not ourselves. Eph. 2:10 - in quoting Ephesians 2:8-9, Protestants invariably ignore the very next verse. Right after Paul's teaching on "works" referring to Mosaic law, Paul says we are created in Christ for "good works" - a clear distinction between "works of law" (Mosaic law/legal payment) and "good works" (law of Christ/reward of grace).
God Bless.
There is some lies going around about salvation:
1) That one is saved if they are on a church roll.
2) That one is saved if other members of their family are saved.
3) That one is saved if they confess Jesus is Lord, and then they can live like they want to
Slavation is conditionary , Jesus made it clear "if you follow My commandments"
All Ten Commadments are still inforce. Jesus made that clear also.
1) That one is saved if they are on a church roll.
2) That one is saved if other members of their family are saved.
3) That one is saved if they confess Jesus is Lord, and then they can live like they want to
Slavation is conditionary , Jesus made it clear "if you follow My commandments"
All Ten Commadments are still inforce. Jesus made that clear also.
Lauren,
You have done a wonderful job communicating something that goes deeper than any knowledge these boneheads have to offer. Did I say boneheads? What got into me? But for some reason I'm not convicted and have no guilt. It kinda feeeeeeeeeeeels good. They just talk in circles all puffed up in their own personal knowledge in that which they understand not. I don't have any empathy for those that persist to disgrace the nature of God and make fun of eternal life that is given by God freely to those who simply believe in the finished work of Christ, God's Son. All they do is trouble and hinder you from the truth and try to take you away from the grace of God. Paul has something very stern to say about those that do such things.
Gal 5:1-12: 'Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. I would they were even cut off which trouble you'.
Understanding this passage of scripture in the Spirit, will give so much joy that you might even want to do a little dance of rejoicing before the LORD. I did, and with a big smile on my face and God was well pleased. It was like the light shining in darkness and the darkness comprehended it not (John 1:5).
You have done a wonderful job communicating something that goes deeper than any knowledge these boneheads have to offer. Did I say boneheads? What got into me? But for some reason I'm not convicted and have no guilt. It kinda feeeeeeeeeeeels good. They just talk in circles all puffed up in their own personal knowledge in that which they understand not. I don't have any empathy for those that persist to disgrace the nature of God and make fun of eternal life that is given by God freely to those who simply believe in the finished work of Christ, God's Son. All they do is trouble and hinder you from the truth and try to take you away from the grace of God. Paul has something very stern to say about those that do such things.
Gal 5:1-12: 'Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. I would they were even cut off which trouble you'.
Understanding this passage of scripture in the Spirit, will give so much joy that you might even want to do a little dance of rejoicing before the LORD. I did, and with a big smile on my face and God was well pleased. It was like the light shining in darkness and the darkness comprehended it not (John 1:5).
B
Well, well, well. The security of the believer a false doctrine - is that so? How could you have read the scriptures that were provided and make such a ridiculous statement? Understand, the argument isn't with me - it is with the Word of God. Go ahead and call God a liar. LET GOD BE TRUE BUT EVERY MAN A LIAR. We'll see how that turns out for you. Hebrews 13:9 is a verse I would otherwise point you to - that is if you had any interest in what the Bible has to say about the matter. You see, Hebrews 13:9 tells us that "...it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE..."(emphasis mine). The simple truth is, there isn't a verse that you quoted that doesn't have a BIBLICAL explanation for it. But you can’t explain advanced trigonometry or calculus to someone who hasn’t learned the simple principles of basic math. And likewise, until you can grasp that one plus one is two, and two times two is four, don’t step into the classroom of advanced mathematics and try to teach! Before you start trying to teach ANYONE, ANYTHING, you’d best get the basics nailed down first. Hebrews 5:11-14 would be a good study for you as well. But you won’t handle the texts that were quoted because you can’t find your way around the classroom! So you simply return fire with some more verses that you really don’t understand either! Come on, step up to the plate and just handle one simple passage - let’s start with Romans 8:28-39. Let’s see your skilled exegesis of this passage. Maybe for the first time in your life it will cause you to seriously study a passage of Scripture instead of just being a “blind leader of the blind” and a “stumblingblock to them that are weak.” Come on, are you up for it? I’ll step into the ring with you or anyone who thinks they are in a position to say that what the Scriptures clearly state is false. You talk about the epitome of egotism - a person who thinks they are in a position to refute the clear statements of Scripture. And then, you add on top a that, a person who apparently thinks they are righteous enough - OUTSIDE OF THE IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS OF JESUS CHRIST - to live a life that pleases God. Who do you think you are trying to kid? Your thought-life alone - for just one week - would be enough to make Satan puke! Don’t kid me - you can’t kid God - so best you stop kidding yourself!
2 Timothy 2: 9Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. 10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. ....19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
2 Timothy 4:5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. ............. 16At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge. 17Notwithstanding the Lord stood with me, and strengthened me; that by me the preaching might be fully known, and that all the Gentiles might hear: and I was delivered out of the mouth of the lion. 18And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
I kind of figured you'd say that. All the scripture in the world can't convince you. As I mentioned in my post, if you've never experienced it, it would be hard to comprehend.
What is faith? Faith: A belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. That definition seems to go contrary to your definition that faith is based on reason.
Where do you think that each of us gets our faith from? Just curious.
What is faith? Faith: A belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. That definition seems to go contrary to your definition that faith is based on reason.
Where do you think that each of us gets our faith from? Just curious.
Curious.
Christian faith most certainly is based on reason. That such a statement evidently surprises you, just shows you have little interest in our history.
L
I don't have any empathy for those that persist to disgrace the nature of God and make fun of eternal life that is given by God freely to those who simply believe in the finished work of Christ, God's Son. All they do is trouble and hinder you from the truth and try to take you away from the grace of God.
Anyways, it's such an awesome experience, words don't do it justice, do they? In fact, words alone do it a disservice as no description can ever convey what happens.
L
Pray tell, your posted definition comes from where?
Curious.
Christian faith most certainly is based on reason. That such a statement evidently surprises you, just shows you have little interest in our history.
Curious.
Christian faith most certainly is based on reason. That such a statement evidently surprises you, just shows you have little interest in our history.
Free Online Dictionary: 2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence
I realize these are definitions via a dictionary, not translations from greek, hebrew or whatever, but they are what they are.
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