3 Millennial Views

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Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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#21
Well, I will be the first to admit that the thousand year reign does, at least, seem to cause a problem with the Preterist interpretation. But, for me, it seems to be what the bible is saying. And as still waters pointed out, there is a problem with all the theories.

I don't know if my interpretation falls into hyper-pretersim, as I don't read up on all the theories. I don't even know what "pre", "post", and "amill" are. I mean other than what I can get from their names.

It wasn't until I joined CC that I had even heard of preterism. But, according to many, that seems to be what I believe.

The "congregation" that I attend is amillennialist, but I don't really believe that.
 
Jan 6, 2014
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#22
As in the days of Noah..... I am an onlytheFatherknowist.
 
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Larry_Stotle

Guest
#23
Well, I will be the first to admit that the thousand year reign does, at least, seem to cause a problem with the Preterist interpretation. But, for me, it seems to be what the bible is saying. And as still waters pointed out, there is a problem with all the theories.
It's not a problem if we consider it as a symbolic number.

I don't know if my interpretation falls into hyper-pretersim, as I don't read up on all the theories. I don't even know what "pre", "post", and "amill" are. I mean other than what I can get from their names.
Hyper preterism considers that the resurrection and judgment of the nations is passed. The judgment was in accordance with the "old" eon or that age as Paul and Jesus called it.

Since 70AD judgment is according to the new (that's my opinion).

It wasn't until I joined CC that I had even heard of preterism. But, according to many, that seems to be what I believe.

The "congregation" that I attend is amillennialist, but I don't really believe that.
You're not the first I've come across that came to a preterist understanding without delving into the theology, there are a few shades of preterism as well.
 
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Larry_Stotle

Guest
#24
As in the days of Noah..... I am an onlytheFatherknowist.
Yes, but then the Father whom knewest told his son and his son told John, and John told the seven churches:

(Rev 1:1 KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Things which must/maybe "shortly" (aka any where from when John wrote the book to 1980+ years and counting) come to pass.

Book of Daniel - sealed for 490 years.

Book of revelation - seal not - 1980+ years..

Go figure.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
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#25
It's not a problem if we consider it as a symbolic number.



Hyper preterism considers that the resurrection and judgment of the nations is passed. The judgment was in accordance with the "old" eon or that age as Paul and Jesus called it.

Since 70AD judgment is according to the new (that's my opinion).



You're not the first I've come across that came to a preterist understanding without delving into the theology, there are a few shades of preterism as well.

I have considered that Peter was directly referring to the thousand year reign when he said that a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day. But, honestly, this is an idea/thought that I haven't committed to. Some will say that Revelation was written after 2 Peter, but whether it was or not, I don't really find that to be a problem for the Holy Spirit. If the writers of the bible were inspired (and they were) then the Holy Spirit can inspire them to write things that they do not "know" yet. We see this with David. I believe that he wrote many things that he didn't even know he was writing. And even if he did understand them, he was writing about things that hadn't been written yet. So we can conclude that Peter could write about something that hadn't been written yet.

I rambled about all that, but I do believe that Revelation was probably written before 2 Peter (as I don't believe that the dating for the NT letters were written on the original documents and were not inspired).

And again, I do not push that the thousand year reign was a day. It is just one of the things that I have considered. But, I need to find more scripture before I am going to believe it.

I have also considered that the thousand year reign refers to the years between David and Jesus, but that doesn't seem to fit either.

Brainstorming folks, and as I said before, the thousand year reign is something that I struggle with. May the Holy Spirit enlighten me, because I would like to know.

I have come to the conclusion that we cannot figure it out without the Holy Spirit. I also believe without His guidance I will not be able to know whether or not someone else's interpretation is correct or not. So the Holy Spirit enlightening someone else may not be of much benefit to my interpretation:confused:
 
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Apr 22, 2014
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#26
I am amill, because I don't see Jesus coming a third time in the Bible, nor a rapture. That is the historical view of the church, because the Bible supports it.

But I am also content to leave eschatology to God, and await his return, and occupy till he comes!


The pre-trib rapture isn't Jesus coming to earth, Its' not the second coming.
The second coming is when Jesus comes back to reign, And His pre-trib raptured people comes with Him.
Zech 14: 5. 1 Thess 2: 19. 1 Thess 3: 13. Rec 19: 14.
So how can the Church be on the earth going through the tribulation and coming back with Jesus at the same time.
At the rapture, The ready and waiting Christians go to heaven to the marriage feast. Matt 25: 1--13.
So how can we be in heaven and going through the tribulation at the same time.

Jesus is going to take His people to their mansions in heaven Jn 14: 2--3.
Yet when Jesus comes back to reign, No one goes to heaven, Then after 1000 years, heaven comes down to earth.
 
Apr 22, 2014
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#27
I'm a "happens as it happens-linnealist"



Are you ready?,
Matt 25: 1--13. Lk 21: 36. Heb 9: 28. 1 Cor 16: 22, Which being interpreted, is,
"If anyone doesn't love the Lord at His coming, let them be unredeemable".

We should always be ready and waiting.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#28
I am amill, because I don't see Jesus coming a third time in the Bible, nor a rapture. That is the historical view of the church, because the Bible supports it.

But I am also content to leave eschatology to God, and await his return, and occupy till he comes!
I must have slept through the second coming, when did that happen?
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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#29
i lean towards amillennialism...

mainly because i just can't seem to find a sensible way of cramming 1,000 extra years into jesus' teaching on the end time...
You mean other than the twentieth chapter of the book of Revelation?
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
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#31
It is only symbolic when it suits a preterist veiw and only literal when it suits a preterist view.
Same could be said a wooden literal view of a thousand years, actually the bible supports 1000 as symbolic though out the whole bible more then a exact literal number of a thousand. Thus I say you are the one who is making it suit your interpretation.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#32
I lean towards historic/covenant premill, it appears to be the most biblical. My eschatological understanding isn't perfect, bit confused.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#33
I uploaded to YouTube a video called "An Evening of Eschatology" which is a round-table discussion on the three main views of the Millennium. The participants are Jim Hamilton (defending Premillennialism), Douglas Wilson (defending Postmillennialism), Sam Storms (defending Amillennialism), and the discussion is moderated by John Piper.

I found this discussion extremely helpful in understanding the different views of the Millennium found within Christianity, and I hope it can be helpful for this thread as well.


[video=youtube_share;W75bzrvJtLs]http://youtu.be/W75bzrvJtLs[/video]
I watched the whole video and it took me two days. I'm still in the same camp, but I did enjoy the post-Millennialist - he was "fun" like he said.

Thanks for posting such a good video of the views on eschatology!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,783
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#34
I must have slept through the second coming, when did that happen?
I mean that according to these views, Jesus has to return once for this so-called rapture (the second time!) and then again to rule and reign on the earth, the third appearance.

Seems to me that including the incarnation that makes three times Jesus returns.

Jesus came once as a baby to save the world, and he will return a second time for the judgement.

[SUP]"[/SUP]And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, [SUP]28 [/SUP]so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him." Hebrews 9:27-28
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#35
I mean that according to these views, Jesus has to return once for this so-called rapture (the second time!) and then again to rule and reign on the earth, the third appearance.

Seems to me that including the incarnation that makes three times Jesus returns.

Jesus came once as a baby to save the world, and he will return a second time for the judgement.

[SUP]"[/SUP]And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, [SUP]28 [/SUP]so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him." Hebrews 9:27-28
Well technically the pre-tribbers don't consider the invisible rapture an appearing or coming, and they believe Jesus stays on the Earth after the 1000 years and while Satan is defeated in the final rebellion, so technically they have one coming too.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
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#36
It is only symbolic when it suits a preterist veiw and only literal when it suits a preterist view.
How do you see the 70 weeks of Daniel? It says that Jesus would come within 70 weeks. I don't think anyone that studies and examines any type of time line can come to the conclusion Jesus was born, much less, crucified during a literal 70 week period. So, was this a literal 70 week period or symbolic?

I would suggest that it is a literal "symbolic" week of the land. God gave them a weeks of the land in Leviticus 25. Daniel's prophecy (that he received) is referring to 490 years. So it is literal, but not of a literal (7 day) week.

I hope that I was clear enough to understand. But I think I have given you some idea of where I am coming from. As I have said before, I haven't settled on the "meaning" of the thousand year reign. I lean toward it being a literal thousand years, but I don't really see how that fits. I feel that you must ignore more to be amillennialist.

I think you have to ignore that the Great Commission was fulfilled before Romans was written, to believe two of them. Jesus says [SUP]13 [/SUP]But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. [SUP]14 [/SUP]This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Many people consider this to be the end of the world, when Jesus is clearly talking about the end of the age. The age in which the very people that He was talking to and said that they would not die until all these things happen.

Then Paul tells us,"But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world.” (Romans 10:18)

When people hear me say that the bible tells us that the great commission was fulfilled, they hear me say that we aren't supposed to teach. But that is not what I am saying at all. Nor am I saying that there is no hope. Nor am I saying that heavens Door has been locked. The opportunity to accept Jesus is still offered to us. And we still need to teach the word of God. But the apostles, and those that they taught , did spread the message to the whole world in the beginning of the first century. And all was fulfilled. My lack of understanding the thousand year reign doesn't change all of that, for me, of course. For many, it seems that it does.

Apparently I sidetracked. The question is, do you see the 70 Week Prophecy of Daniel 9 as 490 days or do you believe that we can apply it to the Weeks of the Land given in Leviticus 25 (which would be 490 years).
 
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Larry_Stotle

Guest
#37
(Dan 9:24 KJV) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The 70 weeks ended in 70AD otherwise we are all still in our sins.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#38
(Dan 9:24 KJV) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The 70 weeks ended in 70AD otherwise we are all still in our sins.
It's to make an end of Israel's sins.

I will cleanse them from all the guilt of their sin against me, and I will forgive all the guilt of their sin and rebellion against me.
(Jer 33:8)

In those days and in that time, declares the LORD, iniquity shall be sought in Israel, and there shall be none, and sin in Judah, and none shall be found, for I will pardon those whom I leave as a remnant.
(Jer 50:20)

(notice Jer 50:20 did not happen in 70AD , but is a future Millennial promise)
 
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Larry_Stotle

Guest
#39
The remnant were saved and forgiven - read Romans....shakes head..

(Rom 11:5 KJV) Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
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#40
(Dan 9:24 KJV) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The 70 weeks ended in 70AD otherwise we are all still in our sins.
Agreed, but I was trying to make a point. That some things in the bible are literal. Some are symbolic. And in this case, it is literal based upon something other than the standard literal.


Meaning, it was 70 weeks, but not was not being applied to a 7 day week, but to a 7 year week. So when we read, we must take all things into account.

And as I have said before, for some reason I tend to think that the thousand years is actually one thousand years, but to what end. What does it mean? Why a thousand years? Why not more than a thousand years - Eternal? I believe that Jesus was victorious at the cross and resurrection.

But the Revelation gets me turned around. I will be reading and feeling good about my "understanding" and then bam, I get hit with something that seems to blow all of my "understanding" in the previous verses out of the water. I think that anyone that doesn't understand what I am talking about, probably hasn't read Revelation; either that or they are full of the Holy Spirit; or they are full of something else (bologna - so one doesn't use their imagination:)). So, I really don't know if I am supposed to understand the thousand year reign as literal, symbolic, symbolically literal....

I don't get caught up on what I don't understand. If I am doing a puzzle and I have one that doesn't make any sense. I will put it to the side, not forgetting it, but also not focusing on it. I work on the pieces that do fit. And when I get to the last few pieces, I can just spin them around until they fit, both in picture and shape.

By the way, the first thing that I put together is the border. In which the whole puzzle is contained. Jesus is the beginning and the end. The frame, the structure. Jesus was the point from the beginning, before Adam was created. Before the fall. Jesus was the answer. Jesus is the answer. Jesus already defeated death. He was already victorious.


1 Corinthians 15:20-28
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, [SUP]24 [/SUP]then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. [SUP]25[/SUP]For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. [SUP]26 [/SUP]The last enemy that will be abolished is death. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. [SUP]28 [/SUP]When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

So, I guess we might look at [SUP] "[/SUP]For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive." In what way did Adam die? He died spiritually that very day. He lost a spiritual connection with God. Isn't it the same with life given through Jesus Christ? We receive back a spiritual connection with God, now. And then our spiritual bodies are removed from out physical bodies at death, but it is a physical death, releasing us fully to a spiritual life unhindered by the flesh.