the antichrist

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cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
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#1
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAKcai5s7m8&feature=related[/video]
 
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midwestbob

Guest
#2
The only 4 verses in the Scriptures that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us that there are many antichrists and that antichrist is a spirit.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

I know that most end time doctrines teach that there will be a “the Antichrist” in the end times. But not once in Scripture is the word antichrist capitalized. Nor do any of the verses that use the term state that antichrist is an end time world leader. In fact the verses tell us that antichrist was already in the world when John wrote the verses. Now many say that John said there would be a future “the Antichrist” because in 1Jn2:18 he said “ye have heard that antichrist shall come” but they neglect to recognize the fact that John also told us what that antichrist was in 1Jn4:3 when he said “this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come”. There are literally well over a billion people in today’s world that deny God even has a Son and by doing so they prove that they are inhabited by the spirit of antichrist. To use the term “the Antichrist” in singular fashion to describe an end time world leader does not match what Scripture tells us about antichrists.
Mar 7:13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Could the end result of this traditional teaching be making “the word of God of none effect” by taking the eyes of the average Christian off the literally billions of antichrists that have existed past, present and future? Just for grins next time you go to church, after the service ask a few members of the congregation who or what are antichrists. I’ve asked many people that question over the years and even though when asking I used the term in plural fashion not once has any one pointed out antichrist is a spirit and that there are many. I’m not a gambler but if I was I would give odds that the majority of people asked would say that antichrist is some end time figure (and proceed to guess at who it might be), and that few if any would point it out it is a spirit and there are many. Is it time that we as Christians start correcting this improper application? After all wouldn’t doing so bring the focus of the average Christian back to the literally billions of antichrist that have or will exist past, present and future? Who, other then satan would want to take the focus off these antichrists? Is it possible that this traditionally taught doctrine is a ploy of satan’s to keep us busy trying to figure out who “the Antichrist” is instead of concentrating on witnessing to the billions of antichrists past, present and future?

I know that many will say what about the beast? If we study what Scripture has taught us about beasts in fulfilled prophecy we can see that beasts in prophecy have been kingdoms. Daniel’s lion beast was Babylon, the bear was Medo-Persia, and the leopard was Greece. So doesn’t it stand to reason that if beasts in fulfilled prophecy were kingdoms, wouldn’t beasts in future prophecy also be kingdoms? Is it possible that the leopard, bear, lion beast of Rev occupies the same geographic area as those from Daniels prophecy occupied? Isn’t Islam a spiritual kingdom (united in the antichrist belief that God has no Son)? Is it a coincidence that the same geographic areas that were once occupied by Daniel’s leopard bear and lion beast is now occupied by the spiritual kingdom of Islam? Is it a coincidence that all these countries believe Israel (and all Christians should be forced to convert or face beheading)? Is it a coincidence that those occupying that area are united in an antichrist belief system that requires world conquest (by sword and beheading)? Is it a coincidence that Islam is one of the fastest growing belief systems in today’s world? Are we facing the beast? Are many of us so busy looking for a misconception that we don’t recognize what is staring us in the face? I think it is highly possible and most likely probable.
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
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#3
welcome to cc

the title of this thread should have been "more info on the antichrist"

according to john the antichrist is "plural" meaning there are many.

ive noticed that anyone that denieth that Christ is God in flesh is part of the antichrist, this falls under "anyone who denies that Christ came in the flesh is the antichrist"

the antichrist spirit denies the deity of Christ because they want to take His place or making themselves equal to Him.
 
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peterT

Guest
#4
Misleading video

There is no one man antichrist in the end days, funny.

Times and laws just the one, funny.

It depends on how you read the verse.

Daniel25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

He will have the power change times and laws for 3 ½ years the last 3 ½ years.

Times and laws just the Sabbath? That’s not the last 3 ½ years.

Here is a time for you.
1260 days.
And another time.
42 months .
And another.
Time times and half of a time.
I wonder if he thinks to change times and laws?.
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
13
0
#5
The only 4 verses in the Scriptures that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us that there are many antichrists and that antichrist is a spirit.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

I know that most end time doctrines teach that there will be a “the Antichrist” in the end times. But not once in Scripture is the word antichrist capitalized. Nor do any of the verses that use the term state that antichrist is an end time world leader. In fact the verses tell us that antichrist was already in the world when John wrote the verses. Now many say that John said there would be a future “the Antichrist” because in 1Jn2:18 he said “ye have heard that antichrist shall come” but they neglect to recognize the fact that John also told us what that antichrist was in 1Jn4:3 when he said “this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come”. There are literally well over a billion people in today’s world that deny God even has a Son and by doing so they prove that they are inhabited by the spirit of antichrist. To use the term “the Antichrist” in singular fashion to describe an end time world leader does not match what Scripture tells us about antichrists.
Mar 7:13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Could the end result of this traditional teaching be making “the word of God of none effect” by taking the eyes of the average Christian off the literally billions of antichrists that have existed past, present and future? Just for grins next time you go to church, after the service ask a few members of the congregation who or what are antichrists. I’ve asked many people that question over the years and even though when asking I used the term in plural fashion not once has any one pointed out antichrist is a spirit and that there are many. I’m not a gambler but if I was I would give odds that the majority of people asked would say that antichrist is some end time figure (and proceed to guess at who it might be), and that few if any would point it out it is a spirit and there are many. Is it time that we as Christians start correcting this improper application? After all wouldn’t doing so bring the focus of the average Christian back to the literally billions of antichrist that have or will exist past, present and future? Who, other then satan would want to take the focus off these antichrists? Is it possible that this traditionally taught doctrine is a ploy of satan’s to keep us busy trying to figure out who “the Antichrist” is instead of concentrating on witnessing to the billions of antichrists past, present and future?

I know that many will say what about the beast? If we study what Scripture has taught us about beasts in fulfilled prophecy we can see that beasts in prophecy have been kingdoms. Daniel’s lion beast was Babylon, the bear was Medo-Persia, and the leopard was Greece. So doesn’t it stand to reason that if beasts in fulfilled prophecy were kingdoms, wouldn’t beasts in future prophecy also be kingdoms? Is it possible that the leopard, bear, lion beast of Rev occupies the same geographic area as those from Daniels prophecy occupied? Isn’t Islam a spiritual kingdom (united in the antichrist belief that God has no Son)? Is it a coincidence that the same geographic areas that were once occupied by Daniel’s leopard bear and lion beast is now occupied by the spiritual kingdom of Islam? Is it a coincidence that all these countries believe Israel (and all Christians should be forced to convert or face beheading)? Is it a coincidence that those occupying that area are united in an antichrist belief system that requires world conquest (by sword and beheading)? Is it a coincidence that Islam is one of the fastest growing belief systems in today’s world? Are we facing the beast? Are many of us so busy looking for a misconception that we don’t recognize what is staring us in the face? I think it is highly possible and most likely probable.
-------> What is the MARK of the BEAST?

it's a bit lengthy but it shows that the mark, the name, and the number of it's name is all symbolic.

it's not a chip or some kind of bar code.

i believe that the "cannot buy or sell" unless one has the mark of the beast is also symbolic.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#6
there is nothing in the bible that makes any connection between the antichrist and worship on sunday...

this is just something the seventh day adventist church fabricated...

and actually 'sabbath keeping' movements throughout history have had more anti christian tendencies than probably any other movement...
 
C

Crimeny

Guest
#7
antichrist is also meaning that it will want to to try to replace christ, a fake.

that means it will be someone who will try to become christ-like and then claim he is christ.
 
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midwestbob

Guest
#8
it's a bit lengthy but it shows that the mark, the name, and the number of it's name is all symbolic.
it's not a chip or some kind of bar code.
i believe that the "cannot buy or sell" unless one has the mark of the beast is also symbolic.
For starters I don’t believe that the mark is a barcode or chip, nor do I believe that you or I can see the mark (having said that does not mean the mark isn’t there, just that mere mortals cannot see it). But rather then confuse the issue by changing directions in midstream, lets stick to the subject of the video about who changes time and law and see if maybe Islam isn’t a better fit then Catholicism.

If I am understanding the message being conveyed in the original video you posted it is suggesting that Catholicism is the antichrist or beast that changes time and law. So for the time being lets focus on whether it was Catholicism (as the video suggests) or islam that has attempted to change law and time

As for as changing the times go it is islam that changed time. The issue isn’t whether the day we worship on changed, but who changes time. Changing the day of the Sabbath doesn’t change time. Even though the Sabbath was changed it didn’t change time. Whether it was changed, or not, does not change what day and year it is. It doesn’t matter that the Sabbath was changed from Saturday to Sunday today would still be Dec11 2011 either way. So it didn’t change time. Islam on the other hand did change time. According to the Islamic calendar we are in the year 1433 Do Catholics believe that we are in the year 2011? Yes they do. Does islam believe we are in the year 2011? No they believe it is 1433. Is 1433 the same as 2011? No it isn’t. Did the Catholics change time? No, its still Dec11 2011 according to them. Did Islam change time? Yes according to Islam we are in the year 1433. So who changed time?

Doesn’t islam (with its antichrist belief that God has no Son) teach the exact opposite of the gospels? So who changed the law? Was it the Catholics or was it islam? Don’t the Catholics base their core beliefs on Scripture? Aren’t their core beliefs based on the record of God given to us by the prophets from Moses to Christ over a 1600 year period? How does that change the law? On the other hand you have islam. A faith that bases it’s belief on the 23 year record of a false prophet called mohammed. A false prophet who inspired an anttichrist belief system that for the last 1400 years has been leading people to perdition by teaching the exact opposite of the Gospel. To quote a friend (with his permission of course) “Christians follow the 1600 year record of God to mankind revealed through all of the prophets and legions of witnesses in His Holy Word. Muslims follow the 23 year, 6th century record of Mohammed that is the perfect DIRECT OPPOSITE, of the Word of God.”

So who is it that seeks to change time and law Catholics or Islam?
LOL and before anybody asks, no I am not Catholic.
 
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midwestbob

Guest
#9
antichrist is also meaning that it will want to to try to replace christ, a fake.

that means it will be someone who will try to become christ-like and then claim he is christ.
I realize this a commonly held belief, but it does not appear to match what Scripture actually says concerning the antichrist.. Would you care to show us which one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists states that “antichrist is also meaning that it will want to to try to replace christ, a fake” or is “someone who will try to become christ-like and then claim he is christ”?

For your convenience I have listed the only 4 verses from Scripture that uses the term antichrist or antichrists:
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
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#10
midwestbob

you believe islam is the antichrist, is this correct?

ive heard about that before but the only problem i have with that is the fact that the antichrist comes from within the church, not islam because islam is not part of the christian church.

when i say church i mean the spiritual church of the followers of Christ, not a building but then again you knew that.

he (the many antichrist's) which infiltrated the church (apostacy) sits in the temple of God claiming himself to be the most high. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 (KJV)
 
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Kiwitron

Guest
#11
Seeing he's basically a counterfeit Jesus Christ - I'd say the beast will be a Jew - a false Messiah of this antichrist Israel and antichrist world.

I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. (John 5:43)

I don't know the traditional Catholic view, but I'm pretty sure that's the Orthodox view.
Many of the Reformers thought the Pope was it.
 

cronjecj

Banned [Reason: ongoing "extreme error/heresy" Den
Sep 25, 2011
1,934
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#12
the antichrist comes out of the church 2 Thessalonians 2:4 (KJV), they are many.

i had a few antichrist's in my local church that's why i left it.

WE ARE THE CHURCH, not a building.
 
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Oct 22, 2011
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#13
These are just some verses out of the quran.

Sura 4. 157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Sura 5. 73. They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

Sura 19.35. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, "Be", and it is.


Sura 19. 88. They say: "((Allah)) Most Gracious has begotten a son!"
Sura 19. 89. Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!
Sura 19.90. At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,
Sura 19.91. That they should invoke a son for ((Allah)) Most Gracious. Sura 19.92. For it is not consonant with the majesty of ((Allah)) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.

And these are verses out of the Bible.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Scripture points more to Islam being antichrist than the Catholic Church!

In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#14
ive heard about that before but the only problem i have with that is the fact that the antichrist comes from within the church, not islam because islam is not part of the christian church.
well some christian writers shortly after muhammad's time actually did consider islam to be an extremely heretical variant of christianity
 
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midwestbob

Guest
#15
midwestbob

you believe islam is the antichrist, is this correct?
Not really Islam is a false religion. All who follow this religion are taught to believe God has no Son. The individuals (muslims) who follow that belief and believe God has no Son are antichrists. They aren’t alone in the world there are many antichrists outside of islam too.

ive heard about that before but the only problem i have with that is the fact that the antichrist comes from within the church, not islam because islam is not part of the christian church.
Really? And which one of the 4 verses that uses the term antichrist or antichrists state that?. Here allow me to quote the verses for you:
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
.
when i say church i mean the spiritual church of the followers of Christ, not a building but then again you knew that.
While I agree the church is the body of believers with Christ as the cornerstone (Eph2:19-21) we cannot say that antichrists only come from within the church. All who deny Christ/God are antichrists, whether they come from with in the church or outside of it makes no difference.

he (the many antichrist's) which infiltrated the church (apostacy) sits in the temple of God claiming himself to be the most high. 2 Thessalonians 2:4 (KJV)
Actually it is the man of sin that sits in the temple of God “so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.” Paul did not say the antichrist he said the man of sin, the son of perdition. While the man of sin is probably one of many antichrists, to call him “the Antichrist” is an improper application of the term antichrist. It also leads to the mistaken belief that antichrists are only in the church when in reality they are everywhere
 
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midwestbob

Guest
#16
Seeing he's basically a counterfeit Jesus Christ - I'd say the beast will be a Jew - a false Messiah of this antichrist Israel and antichrist world.

I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. (John 5:43)

I don't know the traditional Catholic view, but I'm pretty sure that's the Orthodox view.
Many of the Reformers thought the Pope was it.
Is it possible you are confusing antichrists with beasts? We can see from Scripture that antichrists are those who deny Christ/God. On the other hand we can see from fulfilled prophecy that beasts are kingdoms. (Daniel’s beasts, leopard = Greece, bear = Medo-Persia and lion = Babylon). The beast of Rev13:2 is a spiritual kingdom that stands against God and His people. While this kingdom will certainly be full of antichrists we must remember antichrists are individuals. Beasts are kingdoms containing many individuals.
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#17
Cronje, any teaching that oppose the one God gave us is ANTI-CHRIST! Paul said it clear... those that change the Word of God to their own destruction! God said they will appoint for them teachers that is soft on the ears. And boy are there many soft-ear tachers! You see I know because even though I was NEVER indoctrenated by any church, there was always something that made me suspicious of a man claiming to have the Holy Spirit, yet he looks and acts like any of my "heathen" pals!

I always thought that a person that confess that Jesus lives in him, should be different than me. If he is not then wat did that Holy Spirit change? And then that person wants to offer me peace, and soon when times are testing, he is the first one to loose his "cool"! But then God did say they cannnot offer you peace, becasue they do not have it! Yet that will not stop them from offering it! JEsus said COME TO ME, and i will give you rest. You see I think if Jesus gives a person HIS REST, HIS PEACE, HIS SPIRIT, AND HIS salvation, there is something very different to such a person. I know one person that I can say has this peace, reast Spirit and salvation..... ONE! No matter who she is, just trust me on this, this woman is Holy Spirit filled! the love she has for people is not possible by a person, it has to be from God! I have NEVER seen her put herself above ANY other person!

And I knew one man like that as well, but he is asleep now. This man was EVERYBODY's servant, Never did he deny any person a service and a 100% support. Just trust me on this! Now these two people i will say..." The Spirit of Jesus Christ are and was in them!" And no other person will I say have I found "blameless". Least of all me! But I would have to say, I do know the truth, and I do know that EVERY person God saves HE MAKES THEM ALL ACT AND LOOK LIKE JESUS. Eph 4:11 to 13. To the same measure of holiness Jesus was it says in Eph 4:13. It is not people that make themselves to the same holiness of Jesus it is GOD's APPOINTED leaders that does this and they ALL are perfect.

Read Eph 4:11 to 13.... IT says God appointed these people to these offices for THE PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS! How can a non-perfec t teacher of God teach a man that already stopped sinning to be perfect, if he himself is not perfect? God does not appoint hypocrates, His teachers and pastors and evangelists, and prophets and apostles are and were all EXACTLY like HE wanted them! They were what HE MADE them.... Eph 4:11 says HE APPOINTED them!

God says EVERYONE In Christ..... is a new creature, OLD THINGS HAS PASSED.. AND EVERYTHING IS new! And becasue these creatures ARE HIS CREATION, they are EXACTLY LIKE HE WANTS THEM TO BE! He is the potter, and the clay has no say! I hope one day God Himself will get this into some heads! God is the one that gives HIS Spirit! I cannot steal that Spirit. I cannot earn that Spirit, and I cannot immitate that Spirit! I saw that Spirit in two people in my entire life! Both were and are the most humble, least spoken and NEVER seen any of them sin! NEVER!

Just try and know this. They are not that way becasue they want to be, they are that way as a result of wht GOD DID TO AND WITH THEM! the man that is now asleep, was named Micheal. and he was a black South African. He used to work with me on Emfuleni gholf coarse closw to you! Cronje, i was a young man of 30 when I met him. What a man! always loved EVERYBODY, and so wise and humble. I saw love and peace in that man, that are burnt into my memeory. The other person we will not disclose, becasue God will if He wants you to know her!

May the Lord of peace and holiness give us His Spirit, so that we can confess CHRIST HAS COME IN THE FLESH! OUR FLESH, Amen!
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#18
Anti means in place of, the anti Christ is someone in place of Christ.
Read the description of the 1st beast of Rev 13 and it will give a description of a beast in place of Christ.

1. Christ was baptized came out of the water and his ministry lasted for 3.5 years and then He died and was resurrected.
The 1st beast in Rev 13 also comes out of the water, continues for 3.5 prophetic years, receives a deadly wound but comes back.

2. Christ receives authority from the Father, the beast receives authority from the dragon.

3. All whose names are written in the book of life worship Christ, all whose names are not written in the book of life worship the beast.
 
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peterT

Guest
#19
Anti means in place of, the anti Christ is someone in place of Christ.
Read the description of the 1st beast of Rev 13 and it will give a description of a beast in place of Christ.

1. Christ was baptized came out of the water and his ministry lasted for 3.5 years and then He died and was resurrected.
The 1st beast in Rev 13 also comes out of the water, continues for 3.5 prophetic years, receives a deadly wound but comes back.

2. Christ receives authority from the Father, the beast receives authority from the dragon.

3. All whose names are written in the book of life worship Christ, all whose names are not written in the book of life worship the beast.
Good point

Ps

What does 3.5 prophetic years mean?
 
Feb 24, 2011
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#20
Revelation never actually mentions an antichrist, and 'antichrist' is not mentioned at all as a powerful opponent to Jesus, just as any person who claims that Jesus is not the Messiah.

The "beast" in Revelation, the one who many people equate to the Antichrist, is debatabely a historical figure, Nero Ceasar, a tyrannical evil Roman emperor that largely fits the description of the beast. His Greek numerological name even equals 666.