the antichrist
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Scripture gives us the definition of antichrist.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Where in the above verses does it say in place of Christ?
G500
ἀντίχριστος
antichristos
Thayer Definition:
1) the adversary of the Messiah
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G473 and G5547
Citing in TDNT: 9:493, 1322
If antichrist was two seperate words, anti and christ, then I might accept your definition of anti christ as given in Strong’s or Thayer.
STRONG’S
G473
ἀντί
anti
an-tee'
A primary particle; opposite, that is, instead or because of (rarely in addition to): - for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.
G473
ἀντί
anti
Thayer Definition:
1) over against, opposite to, before
2) for, instead of, in place of (something)
2a) instead of
2b) for
2c) for that, because
2d) wherefore, for this cause
Part of Speech: preposition
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary particle
Citing in TDNT: 1:372, 61
But seeing it is one word, antichrist, then I believe G500 is more applicable in this case.
In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316
　
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Where in the above verses does it say in place of Christ?
G500
ἀντίχριστος
antichristos
Thayer Definition:
1) the adversary of the Messiah
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G473 and G5547
Citing in TDNT: 9:493, 1322
If antichrist was two seperate words, anti and christ, then I might accept your definition of anti christ as given in Strong’s or Thayer.
STRONG’S
G473
ἀντί
anti
an-tee'
A primary particle; opposite, that is, instead or because of (rarely in addition to): - for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.
G473
ἀντί
anti
Thayer Definition:
1) over against, opposite to, before
2) for, instead of, in place of (something)
2a) instead of
2b) for
2c) for that, because
2d) wherefore, for this cause
Part of Speech: preposition
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary particle
Citing in TDNT: 1:372, 61
But seeing it is one word, antichrist, then I believe G500 is more applicable in this case.
In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316
　
M
While it’s true that by mans definition anti may mean in place of, not once do any of the verses using the term antichrist or antichrists say the anti Christ is in place of Christ.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Wouldn’t we be better served to base our belief’s about antichrists on what Scripture states rather then use man’s definition?
Here are the verses:
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,
having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads
the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they
worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with
him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name,
and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
I don’t see anything in the description of this beast that indicates the beast is in place of Christ, now if you said the exact opposite of Christ then I could agree. In addition we must remember that we know from fulfilled prophecy beasts are kingdoms. Daniels beasts, lion = Babylon, bear = Medo-Persia and the leopard = Greece.. If John meant antichrist then why didn’t he say antichrist? John was the only one of God’s messengers that uses the term antichrist so why would he suddenly start using another word for antichrists? Wouldn’t that be rather confusing?
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
If a beast in Daniel’s time was a kingdom then it would be a kingdom “yesterday, and today, and forever”. Can you demonstrate with Scripture where the definition of a beast changed from a kingdom to an antichrist? If not then why shouldn’t we use the definition God gave us in Daniel?
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Doesn’t the above verse clearly show that beasts are kingdoms? So why should we believe that a beast in Revelation is “the Antichrist” instead of a kingdom?
This doesn’t give me any reason to believe the beast is in place of Christ. On the other hand it does give us reason to believe it is the opposite. I find it interesting that islam ( a spiritual kingdom) teaches the exact opposite of the gospels.. It might also be worth noting that Islam’s main power and authority are centered in the same geographic locations as Daniel’s beasts. The lion was Babylon now occupied by Iraq, the bear was Medo-Persia now occupied by Iran and the leopard was Greece now occupied by Syria/Lebanon. Could John’s leopard-bear-lion beast be the spiritual kingdom of islam?
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Wouldn’t we be better served to base our belief’s about antichrists on what Scripture states rather then use man’s definition?
Here are the verses:
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,
having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads
the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they
worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with
him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name,
and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
I don’t see anything in the description of this beast that indicates the beast is in place of Christ, now if you said the exact opposite of Christ then I could agree. In addition we must remember that we know from fulfilled prophecy beasts are kingdoms. Daniels beasts, lion = Babylon, bear = Medo-Persia and the leopard = Greece.. If John meant antichrist then why didn’t he say antichrist? John was the only one of God’s messengers that uses the term antichrist so why would he suddenly start using another word for antichrists? Wouldn’t that be rather confusing?
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
If a beast in Daniel’s time was a kingdom then it would be a kingdom “yesterday, and today, and forever”. Can you demonstrate with Scripture where the definition of a beast changed from a kingdom to an antichrist? If not then why shouldn’t we use the definition God gave us in Daniel?
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Doesn’t the above verse clearly show that beasts are kingdoms? So why should we believe that a beast in Revelation is “the Antichrist” instead of a kingdom?
This doesn’t give me any reason to believe the beast is in place of Christ. On the other hand it does give us reason to believe it is the opposite. I find it interesting that islam ( a spiritual kingdom) teaches the exact opposite of the gospels.. It might also be worth noting that Islam’s main power and authority are centered in the same geographic locations as Daniel’s beasts. The lion was Babylon now occupied by Iraq, the bear was Medo-Persia now occupied by Iran and the leopard was Greece now occupied by Syria/Lebanon. Could John’s leopard-bear-lion beast be the spiritual kingdom of islam?
P
To all.
So what are you saying that in the last days there is no one particular Antichrist that will come to power?
If so then what is HE/HIM the beast if no an antichrist, that has power to rule over the whole world and to make war with the saints?
Rv13:2 and the dragon gave HIM his power, and HIS seat, and great authority.
4who is able to make war with HIM?
5And there was given unto HIM a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto HIM to continue forty [and] two months.
6And HE opened his mouth in blasphemy against God
And it was given unto HIM to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given HIM over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship HIM, whose names are not written in the book of life
13 And HE doeth great wonders, so that HE maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
So what are you saying that in the last days there is no one particular Antichrist that will come to power?
If so then what is HE/HIM the beast if no an antichrist, that has power to rule over the whole world and to make war with the saints?
Rv13:2 and the dragon gave HIM his power, and HIS seat, and great authority.
4who is able to make war with HIM?
5And there was given unto HIM a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto HIM to continue forty [and] two months.
6And HE opened his mouth in blasphemy against God
And it was given unto HIM to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given HIM over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship HIM, whose names are not written in the book of life
13 And HE doeth great wonders, so that HE maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
I
This is not a particular person, but a representation of the spirit of the world working in the children of disobedience. The hosts are the vessels (people) given to this spirit. They make war by means of peace and overcome the saints.
Why was power given to to him (collectuve spirit of the world) over all kindreds (races) and tongues (LANGUAGES) and nations?
Romans 9:22
22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
C
If HE makes fire come down in the sight of men from heaven, wouldn't this be a physical and spiritual being? What kind of fire is also coming down?
And they shall worship him? If this is a spirit, must it not take a physical form, otherwise how can people worship it, unless it possess people, but it causes them to worship the beast, which is the person themselves (humanity) or is it something else?
It could be the beast = humanity, many heads (nations), and many crowns, and men speak a lot of blasphemy against the Lord. Man or men? Does man refer to singular or more than one? Who knows, maybe it will reveal itself later.
And they shall worship him? If this is a spirit, must it not take a physical form, otherwise how can people worship it, unless it possess people, but it causes them to worship the beast, which is the person themselves (humanity) or is it something else?
It could be the beast = humanity, many heads (nations), and many crowns, and men speak a lot of blasphemy against the Lord. Man or men? Does man refer to singular or more than one? Who knows, maybe it will reveal itself later.
M
If there is then wouldn’t one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists state that? Which one of those 4 verses speak of that individual?
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
May I ask why you capitalize the word antichrist? The word antichrist is never capitalized in my Bible. Not really sure it might be capitalized in some though, maybe in yours?
Actually I believe it is a kingdom. Let me start by giving a brief explanation why we should look for the beast to be a kingdom and not a person just because it is referred to as he, him.
God told us back in Daniel that beasts are kingdoms and fulfilled prophecy proved this to be true. Daniel’s lion beast was Babylon, the bear was Medo-Persia and the leopard was Greece. If in the language God chose to use in prophecy a beast was a kingdom yesterday then wouldn’t a beast still be a kingdom today or tomorrow? After all isn’t God the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? So if God said a beast was a kingdom yesterday why should we believe a beast today or tomorrow is the Antichrist? Wouldn’t that be confusing? Is God the author of confusion? Just because this kingdom is referred to as a he doesn’t mean it has to be a person, nor does it prove it is a person. There are multiple places in scripture where kingdoms have been spoken of as if they were a person. Israel has been referred to as a HER, it doesn’t make Israel a person.
Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put HER away, and given HER a bill of divorce; yet HER treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Babylon has been referred to as a HER and a SHE but it didn’t mean Babylon was a person.
Jer 50:29 Call together the archers against Babylon: all ye that bend the bow, camp against it round about; let none thereof escape: recompense HER according to HER work; according to all that SHE hath done, do unto HER: for SHE hath been proud against the LORD, against the Holy One of Israel.
So while I can see where the use of him and he might lead one to assume this is a person it is far from conclusive proof. Additionally we have to consider that doing so totally disregards what God’s word told us (and history proves true) about beasts in Daniel.
So can a beast/kingdom have “power to rule over the whole world and to make war with the saints”? While it is certainly possible that the world could be under one govt it is highly unlikely. Considering that this beast/kingdom makes war against the saints we have to recognize that this is a spiritual battle, a literal real world battle against God’s people. Considering that it is satan who gives this beast/kingdom its seat power and authority doesn’t it stand to reason that this would be satan’s spiritual kingdom. Are the members of satan’s kingdom united by geographic location or political leaders? Not really but they are united by the spirit of antichrist. Would it be necessary for a spiritual kingdom to be united by govt or geographic location to have power to rule over the whole world and to make war with the saints? Not really, look how rapidly islam is growing and spreading around the world. With islam comes sharia law. As islam advances sharia law advances it isn’t constrained by geographical or political divisions. Nor is it united under one person but yet it effectively wages jihad against all (who refuse to submit to islam) world wide. Does islam specifically target Christians and Jews? yes(see surah9:29) Does sharia law put Christians in a position of not being able to buy and sell? Doesn’t islam require world domination? Isn’t the penalty for those who refuse to submit to islam death by beheading? Didn’t islam rise and spread from the geographic area that was Daniels leopard bear and lion beasts? I suspect the beast is alive and growing right before our eyes. IMO many or so intent on looking for what they think will happen that they fail to see prophecy unfolding right before our eyes.
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
May I ask why you capitalize the word antichrist? The word antichrist is never capitalized in my Bible. Not really sure it might be capitalized in some though, maybe in yours?
Actually I believe it is a kingdom. Let me start by giving a brief explanation why we should look for the beast to be a kingdom and not a person just because it is referred to as he, him.
God told us back in Daniel that beasts are kingdoms and fulfilled prophecy proved this to be true. Daniel’s lion beast was Babylon, the bear was Medo-Persia and the leopard was Greece. If in the language God chose to use in prophecy a beast was a kingdom yesterday then wouldn’t a beast still be a kingdom today or tomorrow? After all isn’t God the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? So if God said a beast was a kingdom yesterday why should we believe a beast today or tomorrow is the Antichrist? Wouldn’t that be confusing? Is God the author of confusion? Just because this kingdom is referred to as a he doesn’t mean it has to be a person, nor does it prove it is a person. There are multiple places in scripture where kingdoms have been spoken of as if they were a person. Israel has been referred to as a HER, it doesn’t make Israel a person.
Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put HER away, and given HER a bill of divorce; yet HER treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Babylon has been referred to as a HER and a SHE but it didn’t mean Babylon was a person.
Jer 50:29 Call together the archers against Babylon: all ye that bend the bow, camp against it round about; let none thereof escape: recompense HER according to HER work; according to all that SHE hath done, do unto HER: for SHE hath been proud against the LORD, against the Holy One of Israel.
So while I can see where the use of him and he might lead one to assume this is a person it is far from conclusive proof. Additionally we have to consider that doing so totally disregards what God’s word told us (and history proves true) about beasts in Daniel.
So can a beast/kingdom have “power to rule over the whole world and to make war with the saints”? While it is certainly possible that the world could be under one govt it is highly unlikely. Considering that this beast/kingdom makes war against the saints we have to recognize that this is a spiritual battle, a literal real world battle against God’s people. Considering that it is satan who gives this beast/kingdom its seat power and authority doesn’t it stand to reason that this would be satan’s spiritual kingdom. Are the members of satan’s kingdom united by geographic location or political leaders? Not really but they are united by the spirit of antichrist. Would it be necessary for a spiritual kingdom to be united by govt or geographic location to have power to rule over the whole world and to make war with the saints? Not really, look how rapidly islam is growing and spreading around the world. With islam comes sharia law. As islam advances sharia law advances it isn’t constrained by geographical or political divisions. Nor is it united under one person but yet it effectively wages jihad against all (who refuse to submit to islam) world wide. Does islam specifically target Christians and Jews? yes(see surah9:29) Does sharia law put Christians in a position of not being able to buy and sell? Doesn’t islam require world domination? Isn’t the penalty for those who refuse to submit to islam death by beheading? Didn’t islam rise and spread from the geographic area that was Daniels leopard bear and lion beasts? I suspect the beast is alive and growing right before our eyes. IMO many or so intent on looking for what they think will happen that they fail to see prophecy unfolding right before our eyes.
M
As I demonstrated in the post above your "HE/HIM/HIS" argument proves nothing. It is merely a reason to assume. It provides no conclusive proof.
I've provided Scripture that proves God has used the word beast to describe kingdoms in prophecy.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth.....
Doesn't Scripture itself teach beasts are kingdoms or is the above verse in error?
Can you provide Scripture that proves God uses the word beast to describe the "man of sin", "son of perdition" " prince of this world be cast out"? God's inspired word says beast are kingdoms, you say beasts are man of sin, son of perdition. hmmmm who should we believe? Scripture interprets scripture. Where does Scripture say a beast is the man of sin?
Already addressed that. isn't islam a spiritual kingdom? Don't approximately 1.5 billion in todays world alone worship islam? And that's not counting the billions lost over the last 1400 years that have followed the false prophet mohammed to perdition with its antichrist belief that requies all muslims to deny the Son. Don't make a snap judgment, take a little time reeread my post above, take it to scripture and see if it isn't a much better fit.
I've provided Scripture that proves God has used the word beast to describe kingdoms in prophecy.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth.....
Doesn't Scripture itself teach beasts are kingdoms or is the above verse in error?
Can you provide Scripture that proves God uses the word beast to describe the "man of sin", "son of perdition" " prince of this world be cast out"? God's inspired word says beast are kingdoms, you say beasts are man of sin, son of perdition. hmmmm who should we believe? Scripture interprets scripture. Where does Scripture say a beast is the man of sin?
Already addressed that. isn't islam a spiritual kingdom? Don't approximately 1.5 billion in todays world alone worship islam? And that's not counting the billions lost over the last 1400 years that have followed the false prophet mohammed to perdition with its antichrist belief that requies all muslims to deny the Son. Don't make a snap judgment, take a little time reeread my post above, take it to scripture and see if it isn't a much better fit.
M
Don't try twisting my words because you have no scripture to back what you say. I never said Islam was the 4th beast but I did use that verse to prove that God's inspired word does tell us beasts are kingdoms. The 4th beast was Rome but the example clearly shows that God's inspired word uses a beast as a kingdom. Now how about answering some of the questions i asked? Lets start with a verse that says a beast is the ma of sin, can you provide such a verse if not then why should we believe a beast means man of sin? Gods inspired word proves that a beast is a kingdom yet you insist a beast is the man of sin prove it, if you can. Precept upon preept line upon line.
P
Ok I will do my best be patient and I will get to it.
I didn’t trying to twist you words that’s what I thought you meant.
So the 4th beast is Rome a kingdom, and
10 kings shall arise:
and another shall rise after them;
and he shall be diverse from the first,
and he shall subdue three kings.
In that 4th beast, 10 kings come to power, and another one comes up and destroys three kings
But you say the one horn that comes up after the 10, that destroys three, is Satan’s spiritual kingdom of islam? Not a kingdom with a king but a individual peoples a religion YES?
If that be so then the other 10 horns/kings are individual peoples a religion too.
Or is it just that horn that’s not a king?
I didn’t trying to twist you words that’s what I thought you meant.
So the 4th beast is Rome a kingdom, and
10 kings shall arise:
and another shall rise after them;
and he shall be diverse from the first,
and he shall subdue three kings.
In that 4th beast, 10 kings come to power, and another one comes up and destroys three kings
But you say the one horn that comes up after the 10, that destroys three, is Satan’s spiritual kingdom of islam? Not a kingdom with a king but a individual peoples a religion YES?
If that be so then the other 10 horns/kings are individual peoples a religion too.
Or is it just that horn that’s not a king?