A Biblical treatment of the oneness doctrine.

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Jul 21, 2009
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By R.B. Ring
*********

In these last days we rally to uphold the Word of God which will stand forever ( Isaiah 40:8 ) as the only sure foundation for faith, calling upon Christians everywhere to earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints ( Jude 3 ).

One of the most rapidly spreading
errors of our day is the teaching that God the Father and God the Holy Spirit do not exist ; that Jesus alone is all three of the personalities of the Godhead. This not only dishonors the Father whom Jesus says sent Him ( John 4:34; 9:4; 11:42; 17:3; and 1 John 4:9), but the Holy Spirit ( John 14:16,17 ). We are expressly warned to be careful of how we speak of the Holy Spirit ( Luke 12:10).

Those who believe that Jesus alone is God must confess that according to Scripture they believe the following:

1.) Jesus is His own Father ( Acts 13:33 )

2.) Jesus begat Himself (John 3:16 )

3.) Jesus prayed to Himself and thanked Himself for giving the answer ( John 11:41).

4.) Jesus had to go away in order to send Himself back (John 16:7).

5.) Jesus promised those who were with Him on earth that as His own Father in heaven He would give Himself under a different name to them ( Luke 11:13 ).

6.) That Jesus said He was greater than Himself ( John )

7.) That Jesus as His own Father loved Himself ( John :17)

8.) That Jesus gave Himself a commandment which He obeyed ( John 10:18).

9.) That Jesus was the way to Himself ( John 14:6 ).

10.) That Jesus anointed Himself with Himself and accompanied Himself on earth ( Acts 10:38 )

11.) That in the same breath, Jesus said " blasphemy against Him would be forgiven and not forgiven." ( Luke 12:10)

12.) That His will disagreed with itself in the Garden of Gethsemane until He submitted His will on earth to His will in heaven and this struggle between His two wills caused Him to sweat drops of blood just as the struggle to conceive of such a situation may cause the believer to do likewise. ( Luke 22:42 )

13.) That Jesus prayed to Himself to forgive those who crucified Him (Luke 23:34)

14.) That Jesus forsook Himself on Calvary's cross. ( Matthew 27:46 ).

15.) That when Jesus died upon the cross He committed His own spirit unto His own hands ( Luke 23:46 )

16.) That when Jesus left this earth He went to meet Himself. ( John 16:28 )

17.) That Jesus then sat down at His own right hand ( Mark 16:19; Mark 14:62; Eph 1:20; Col 3:1; Heb 1:3; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2; and 1 Peter 3:22)

18.) That Jesus gave Himself all power in heaven and in earth ( Matthew 28:18)

19.) That Jesus is both judge and lawgiver pleading our cause with Himself. ( 1 John 2:1; 1 Tim 2:5; Heb 8:6; 12:24)

20.) That Jesus required His own death on the cross to satisfy Himself and reconcile a lost world to Himself by working in Himself ( 2 Cor 5:18,19 )

The above are only a very few of the many difficulties resulting from belief in the oneness doctrine. The utter folly of this teaching and the resultant confusion will be apparent if you will read

Jesus Himself declared that He knew not the hour of His return to earth, that neither the angels in heaven know it, but the Father only. If Jesus were both the Father and the Son, He knew the hour of His own return and He knew not the hour of His return.( This is ludicrous. ( emphasis mine - DeeperStill)

Jesus Himself declared that it was not His perogative to give power to sit on His right hand and His left hand, that these places would be given to whomever they were prepared for by His Father.

If we conceive of Jesus as being both the Father and the Son as this form of Unitarianism teaches, then we must understand that He both had and did not have the power to designate who should receive the seats of honor in glory. If this statement was made of one and the same person, then a falsehood is involved since He said it was not His to give ( Mark 10:40)

The first Christian martyr, Stephen, saw heaven opened and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. Was Stephen seeing double? Was Jesus standing with Himself? Take note here that Stephen was filled with the Holy Spirit and saw both God the Father and God the Son. Right there at Stephens death, we see the trinity in function. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. How could Stephen be filled with the Holy Spirit and still see God the Father and God the Son standing in heaven if God the Spirit was In Stephen.. unless the true understanding is that God is Triune and not modalistic.

So, lets put off this false doctrine and stand firm upon the truth which we have been taught and avoid such disputes any longer. Our God is One. He is One "WHAT" , three "WHO's"

Fundamental Truth
The trinity of God is the fundamental fact of the faith which we have been shown from Genesis to Revelations and it cannot be denied. Those who come teaching a different truth have sadly, been mislead by this false doctrine. And we must pray for them that they will have their eyes open to the true biblical understanding of the Godhead. We should not forsake them because most likely they believe themselves to be believing the truth.

However, let me suggest that you really read about the oneness's beliefs. I believe you will see other misunderstandings they believe such as the doctrine of baptism.. and other things.

But You, stand on the truth that you have been taught and avoid contentious and divisive arguments . Do not be swayed and look for fruit of the Spirit, not gifts of the spirit because gifts can be counterfeit but fruit is Love....

T




 
Apr 23, 2009
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#2
By R.B. Ring
*********




Those who believe that Jesus alone is God must confess that according to Scripture they believe the following:

1.) Jesus is His own Father ( Acts 13:33 )

2.) Jesus begat Himself (John 3:16 )

3.) Jesus prayed to Himself and thanked Himself for giving the answer ( John 11:41).

4.) Jesus had to go away in order to send Himself back (John 16:7).

5.) Jesus promised those who were with Him on earth that as His own Father in heaven He would give Himself under a different name to them ( Luke 11:13 ).

6.) That Jesus said He was greater than Himself ( John )

7.) That Jesus as His own Father loved Himself ( John :17)

8.) That Jesus gave Himself a commandment which He obeyed ( John 10:18).

9.) That Jesus was the way to Himself ( John 14:6 ).

10.) That Jesus anointed Himself with Himself and accompanied Himself on earth ( Acts 10:38 )

11.) That in the same breath, Jesus said " blasphemy against Him would be forgiven and not forgiven." ( Luke 12:10)

12.) That His will disagreed with itself in the Garden of Gethsemane until He submitted His will on earth to His will in heaven and this struggle between His two wills caused Him to sweat drops of blood just as the struggle to conceive of such a situation may cause the believer to do likewise. ( Luke 22:42 )

13.) That Jesus prayed to Himself to forgive those who crucified Him (Luke 23:34)

14.) That Jesus forsook Himself on Calvary's cross. ( Matthew 27:46 ).

15.) That when Jesus died upon the cross He committed His own spirit unto His own hands ( Luke 23:46 )

16.) That when Jesus left this earth He went to meet Himself. ( John 16:28 )

17.) That Jesus then sat down at His own right hand ( Mark 16:19; Mark 14:62; Eph 1:20; Col 3:1; Heb 1:3; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2; and 1 Peter 3:22)

18.) That Jesus gave Himself all power in heaven and in earth ( Matthew 28:18)

19.) That Jesus is both judge and lawgiver pleading our cause with Himself. ( 1 John 2:1; 1 Tim 2:5; Heb 8:6; 12:24)

20.) That Jesus required His own death on the cross to satisfy Himself and reconcile a lost world to Himself by working in Himself ( 2 Cor 5:18,19 )
This is obviously from one of those anti oneness website like CARM that does not disprove the doctrine of Oneness, but instead shows the ignorance of people who cannot grasp it.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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#3
This is obviously from one of those anti oneness website like CARM that does not disprove the doctrine of Oneness, but instead shows the ignorance of people who cannot grasp it.
Watchmen, you left out much of what i said at the bottom which included this:

"Do not be swayed, and look for fruit of the Spirit, not gifts of the spirit because gifts can be counterfeit but fruit is Love.... "

****

T


 
Jan 8, 2009
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#4
Great post DeeperStill. Someone has to stand up for the truth.

By the way, CARM is not an anti-Oneness site. it is a Christian apologetics website. Oneness believers are hardly Christian, as evidenced by the other false doctrines they believe such as that you have to speak in tongues to be saved (Oneness Pentecostals).
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#5
Watchmen, you left out much of what i said at the bottom which included this:

"Do not be swayed, and look for fruit of the Spirit, not gifts of the spirit because gifts can be counterfeit but fruit is Love.... "

****

T


And that has anythiong to do with the subject, how??????
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#6
Great post DeeperStill. Someone has to stand up for the truth.

By the way, CARM is not an anti-Oneness site. it is a Christian apologetics website. Oneness believers are hardly Christian, as evidenced by the other false doctrines they believe such as that you have to speak in tongues to be saved (Oneness Pentecostals).
I do not believe poeple who do not speak in tongues are not saved. Like I said in another thread, we agree on almost everything else. You agree with a heretic on 90%+ of scripture. What does that say about you?
 
Jul 21, 2009
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#7
Word: heretic
Definitions: Noun: A person who holds religious beliefs in conflict with the dogma of the Roman Catholic Church
Noun: A person who holds unorthodox opinions in any field (not merely religion)


Hey, I resemble that remark !!!!

:eek:
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#8
I do not believe poeple who do not speak in tongues are not saved. Like I said in another thread, we agree on almost everything else. You agree with a heretic on 90%+ of scripture. What does that say about you?
Are you claiming that the 90% of what you believe is also heresy? :).

What does it say about me? Nothing. I don't follow your views or agree with you for the sake of agreeing. My beliefs come from mainstream Christianity and scripture, as do the 90% of yours. That should tell you something about that 10% of heresy you believe.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#9
Are you claiming that the 90% of what you believe is also heresy? :).

What does it say about me? Nothing. I don't follow your views or agree with you for the sake of agreeing. My beliefs come from mainstream Christianity and scripture, as do the 90% of yours. That should tell you something about that 10% of heresy you believe.
All my beliefs come from scripture, I believe nothing because it is mainstream. What does that other 10% mean? You need to start listening to God instead of your sunday school teacher.
 
Jan 8, 2009
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#10
Thats your religious spirit talking there not the Holy Spirit.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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#11
Because this post has gotten lost on the second page, and I think its important for us to understand just exactly what the oneness viewpoint means in the interpretation of God's word, I am going to bump this topic by posting again. I hope more people post responses.

T


**Bump**
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#12
Because this post has gotten lost on the second page, and I think its important for us to understand just exactly what the oneness viewpoint means in the interpretation of God's word, I am going to bump this topic by posting again. I hope more people post responses.

T


**Bump**
I too think it is important to understand what Oneness believers believe. Rather than taken a trintiarians word for what someone else believes.

I believe in the Oneness doctrine, which is neither trinitarian nor modalist The teaching of Oneness is this....
#1 The Father is God, Jesus is God, The Holy Spirit is God.
#2 However Jesus Christ is also the Father and the Father is the Holy Spirit.
#3 In other words there is one God the Father, who came in a body (the Son) and who is the Eternal Spirit (the Holy Spirit). So we teach that the Father came in the flesh as Jesus, and is a Spirit ''The Holy Spirit''.
#4 So it is similar to the Trinity doctrine in that we have 3 who are one, but Oneness doctrine says that the 3 ''persons'' are not separate, but actually the same 1, who is God.
 
S

stillearning

Guest
#13
Because this post has gotten lost on the second page, and I think its important for us to understand just exactly what the oneness viewpoint means in the interpretation of God's word, I am going to bump this topic by posting again. I hope more people post responses.

T


**Bump**
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.(Prophecy).
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.(Isaiah 7:14 prophecy fulfilled).
Isa 40:3 ¶ The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.(Prophecy).
Jhn 1:23 He said, I [am] the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.(Isaiah 40:3 prophecy fulfilled).
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. (Prophecy).
Phl 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;
Phl 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.(Isaiah 45:23 prophecy referring to Jesus).
Isa 44:6 ¶ Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.
Isa 48:12 ¶ Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I [am] he; I [am] the first, I also [am] the last.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

Jesus is the image of the invisible God
Hbr 1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
2Cr 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Jesus came to save us from our sin
Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Jhn 1:29 ¶ The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Hbr 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Jesus is the Son of God
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Hbr 1:5 ¶ For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Mat 1:18 ¶ Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Mat 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
He is the King of Kings and Lord of lords
Dan 2:47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth [it is], that your God [is] a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.
1Ti 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and [before] Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep [this] commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, [who is] the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Jesus’ Father, the Spirit of God, was living within him.
Jhn 10:30 I and [my] Father are one.
Jhn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him.
Jhn 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Col 1:19 ¶ For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Jesus is the baptizer with the Holy Ghost, the Comforter
Isa 44:3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
Isa 59:20 ¶ And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
Isa 59:21 As for me, this [is] my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that [is] upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
Joe 2:28 ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joe 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:
Mar 1:7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
Mar 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
Jhn 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:1 ¶ And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Act 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 ¶ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Act 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
Act 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Act 2:14 ¶ But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is [but] the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Jesus is the Holy Ghost/Comforter
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Jhn 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Jesus will be on the throne in heaven.
Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and [one] sat on the throne.
Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and [there was] a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Rev 19:4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads.

Jesus is everything to us: He is God, savior, mediator, propitiation for sin, advocate, and comforter. He is our rescuer, King and ruler.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#14
I too think it is important to understand what Oneness believers believe. Rather than taken a trintiarians word for what someone else believes.

I believe in the Oneness doctrine, which is neither trinitarian nor modalist The teaching of Oneness is this....
#1 The Father is God, Jesus is God, The Holy Spirit is God.
#2 However Jesus Christ is also the Father and the Father is the Holy Spirit.
#3 In other words there is one God the Father, who came in a body (the Son) and who is the Eternal Spirit (the Holy Spirit). So we teach that the Father came in the flesh as Jesus, and is a Spirit ''The Holy Spirit''.
#4 So it is similar to the Trinity doctrine in that we have 3 who are one, but Oneness doctrine says that the 3 ''persons'' are not separate, but actually the same 1, who is God.
I too as deeperstill believe it is important for people to understand what Oneness actually believe, so i will bump this post.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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#15
I too think it is important to understand what Oneness believers believe. Rather than taken a trintiarians word for what someone else believes.

I believe in the Oneness doctrine, which is neither trinitarian nor modalist The teaching of Oneness is this....
#1 The Father is God, Jesus is God, The Holy Spirit is God.
#2 However Jesus Christ is also the Father and the Father is the Holy Spirit.
#3 In other words there is one God the Father, who came in a body (the Son) and who is the Eternal Spirit (the Holy Spirit). So we teach that the Father came in the flesh as Jesus, and is a Spirit ''The Holy Spirit''.
#4 So it is similar to the Trinity doctrine in that we have 3 who are one, but Oneness doctrine says that the 3 ''persons'' are not separate, but actually the same 1, who is God.

You are correct on number 1.

What you are missing are the other truths about the Godhead. The truths about the Godhead are these:

1. Our God is One:
2. Three personages
3. Co-equal and co-eternal

Where you are missing it is that you think that The Father became the Son and then the Son became the Holy Spirit. This is the error. Because The Son.. The logos (John 1 ) was WITH God the Father, as was the Holy Spirit. God the Son, took on human flesh and became two natures. One nature being diety, the other nature being human. Logos /Jesus.

The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are distinct personages yet they are ONE.


Below you will see an image. This image shows the three truths:
One God
Three personages
Co-equal and Co-eternal

If one of these truths taught in God's Word is not upheld, there is error.




lets take the truth "Equality of Person", in bold, on the right margin. If God is not equal in personages, then the arrow points to the error at the opposite point of hte triangle. This error is Subordinationism.

Now lets look at the bold typed "Monotheism", which is One God. If we are promoting more than one God, as in saying God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three gods, Then we are promoting the error at the top of the triangle called Polytheism.


Now... Here is your error watchman.

If we are not teaching that God is "Three Persons", the error it points to is Modalism, and since you are teaching that the Father became the Son, then the Son became the Holy Spirit, and I quote you on this "#3 In other words there is one God the Father, who came in a body (the Son) and who is the Eternal Spirit (the Holy Spirit). So we teach that the Father came in the flesh as Jesus, and is a Spirit ''The Holy Spirit''.", you are promoting the error called modalism.

The Father never came in the body of the Son and is not the Holy Spirit. This is the error you promote.

God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are One God, they are co-equal, they are co-eternal. They are distinct personages who were all present at creation, all present at redemption and all Present for all time for God is Omnipresent. They are separate personages who make up the Triune Godhead.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#16
Originally Posted by watchmen

I too think it is important to understand what Oneness believers believe. Rather than taken a trintiarians word for what someone else believes.

I believe in the Oneness doctrine, which is neither trinitarian nor modalist The teaching of Oneness is this....
#1 The Father is God, Jesus is God, The Holy Spirit is God.
#2 However Jesus Christ is also the Father and the Father is the Holy Spirit.
#3 In other words there is one God the Father, who came in a body (the Son) and who is the Eternal Spirit (the Holy Spirit). So we teach that the Father came in the flesh as Jesus, and is a Spirit ''The Holy Spirit''.
#4 So it is similar to the Trinity doctrine in that we have 3 who are one, but Oneness doctrine says that the 3 ''persons'' are not separate, but actually the same 1, who is God.
You are correct on number 1.

What you are missing are the other truths about the Godhead. The truths about the Godhead are these:

1. Our God is One:
2. Three personages
3. Co-equal and co-eternal


If one of these truths taught in God's Word is not upheld, there is error.

The problem is the Bible does not teach God is 3 persons therefore those persons being equal does not even come into the discussion. For if God is not 3 separate persons then there is no need for those ''persons'' to be declared as equal.
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#17


God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are One God, they are co-equal, they are co-eternal. They are distinct personages who were all present at creation, all present at redemption and all Present for all time for God is Omnipresent. They are separate personages who make up the Triune Godhead.
This is man's teaching not God's. The bible does NOT teach this.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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#18
The problem is the Bible does not teach God is 3 persons therefore those persons being equal does not even come into the discussion. For if God is not 3 separate persons then there is no need for those ''persons'' to be declared as equal.

Hermanuetics are tricky for sure. Your view is colored by your oneness theology. Mine is colored by my trinitarian theology/

Let God be true and every man a liar.


Others will come either agreeing or denying; as you have done.

T
 
Apr 23, 2009
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#19
Hermanuetics are tricky for sure. Your view is colored by your oneness theology. Mine is colored by my trinitarian theology/

Let God be true and every man a liar.


Others will come either agreeing or denying; as you have done.

T
This is true most men are swayed by their preconceived ideas. The thing about that was I used to be trinitarian until God revealed to me the truth through His word and the guidance of His Spirit into all truths. So my preconceived ideas were smashed by God's truth, I was not swayed into believing Oneness by them.
 
Jul 21, 2009
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#20
Perhaps now you can return to the first post and try to explain those verses listed there in light of your oneness doctrine. How do you answer for those verses.

How do you explain the use of echad instead of yachim in the Schema?



T
 
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