Revelation chapter 12 Bible study.

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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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t t t
The Church is NOT the Remnant of Israel, the 144,000. The Church is HIS Bride and that includes believers in Messiah as LORD from all time, up to when HE comes for his Bride, and the Wedding will take place in Heaven in the new Dwelling Place that He has Built for in His Father's House. I believe that New Dwelling Place truly is the New City Jerusalem, that will be lowered to the Earth at the end of Revelation.

Simplified Jewish Traditions explanation of the Wedding Proposal, the New Dwelling Place, the Calling out of the Bride, and the Wedding of the Lamb - for children and new Believers.
The Jewish Wedding - A Picture of Christ & The Church Bride | helpforhomeschoolers.com

Detailed Jewish Traditions explanation of the Wedding Proposal, the New Dwelling Place, the Calling out of the Bride, and the Wedding of the Lamb - for mature Believers.
Apocalypse soon - Rosh HaShanah - (1) The Wedding of the Messiah , (2) The Feast of Trumpets
I agree, the Church is NOT the 144,000. But the 144,000 is NOT the remnant of Israel either. The 144,000 are the ELECT, the Faithful and Chosen. They are the firstfruits redeemed of men and are of God and the Lamb. They are of Jewish descent from 2,500 years ago. They are from all over the Globe, every nation, tongue and race.

The Bride is ALL SAVED!! It is not just the church. I suggest you go back and read the end of Revelation, Chapters 19-22, as it is spelled out very clearly there.
 
L

LT

Guest
I agree, the Church is NOT the 144,000. But the 144,000 is NOT the remnant of Israel either. The 144,000 are the ELECT, the Faithful and Chosen. They are the firstfruits redeemed of men and are of God and the Lamb. They are of Jewish descent from 2,500 years ago. They are from all over the Globe, every nation, tongue and race.

The Bride is ALL SAVED!! It is not just the church. I suggest you go back and read the end of Revelation, Chapters 19-22, as it is spelled out very clearly there.
Amen!
Scripture is clear that the Bride is both OT saints and NT saints. The "Church" is not just NT saints, but is all those who put their faith in God to redeem them. The promise was given to Adam and Eve for a redeemer to come. Job knew that he had a redeemer. Abraham knew that his redeemer would be one of his descendants. They were saved by the same Blood that we are saved by today, and the same will save those in the Tribulation.
More of God's plan has been revealed to us now than was revealed to them, but it is all the same plan, and the same redemption. Faith was always the requirement. Faith always brought salvation.

WE KNOW the Two Witnesses will be KILLED in the Streets of Jerusalem, AND that it is given unto every man ONCE to die.
WHAT A MINUTE! Enuch and Elijah did not die!

Oh and believe me if those two were transported through time, to be the TWO WITNESSES, every Jew would listen to them as they pointed out, JESUS CHRIST IS YOUR MESSIAH.



Why do people abuse that verse? Didn't Lazarus die twice? What about Tabitha (Dorcas)?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I agree, the Church is NOT the 144,000. But the 144,000 is NOT the remnant of Israel either. The 144,000 are the ELECT, the Faithful and Chosen. They are the firstfruits redeemed of men and are of God and the Lamb. They are of Jewish descent from 2,500 years ago. They are from all over the Globe, every nation, tongue and race.

The Bride is ALL SAVED!! It is not just the church. I suggest you go back and read the end of Revelation, Chapters 19-22, as it is spelled out very clearly there.
Your correct, the bride is from all nations. Has been since the begining of time, Has never changed.

But these are 144000 from the nation of Israel. God told john they were. We should not call God a liar. If God wanted us to know they were from all nations, he would have plainly told us so.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Amen!

Why do people abuse that verse? Didn't Lazarus die twice? What about Tabitha (Dorcas)?
lol Scripture does not tell us who they are. I agree with you. That verse is abused alot.
 
L

LT

Guest
Your correct, the bride is from all nations. Has been since the begining of time, Has never changed.

But these are 144000 from the nation of Israel. God told john they were. We should not call God a liar. If God wanted us to know they were from all nations, he would have plainly told us so.
Totally agree. There is no reason why the Bible would say they are 12000 from each tribe, so very clearly, for it to then be just a metaphor.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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Your correct, the bride is from all nations. Has been since the begining of time, Has never changed.

But these are 144000 from the nation of Israel. God told john they were. We should not call God a liar. If God wanted us to know they were from all nations, he would have plainly told us so.
Who is calling God a liar!!?!?!? Certainly not me. If you have any knowledge of Jewish history at all, you would know that the ten northern tribes (AKA ISRAEL, as opposed to Judea) went over the Caucus Mountains about 2,700 years ago and settled Europe and eventually North America and into Russia, China and everywhere else. These tribes were scattered. But God knows their bloodlines, from umbilical to umbilical cord, where these descendants are. You could be a descendant, I could be. How many people can trace their roots back 2,700 years? I can't even trace mine back to 1800.

God will seal these 12,000 from each tribe. They will minister to those on earth during the Tribulation all over the globe. They will be God's tool to combat Satan's lies once the Church is slaughtered for going out for the fake antichrist, See Rev 7 and Isa 65. It will be just like Gideon. God prefers to use a small select group heavily outnumbered so He gets all the glory. The rest are "sent home" just like the 32,000 were for Gideon.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
I agree, the Church is NOT the 144,000. But the 144,000 is NOT the remnant of Israel either. The 144,000 are the ELECT, the Faithful and Chosen. They are the firstfruits redeemed of men and are of God and the Lamb. They are of Jewish descent from 2,500 years ago. They are from all over the Globe, every nation, tongue and race.

The Bride is ALL SAVED!! It is not just the church. I suggest you go back and read the end of Revelation, Chapters 19-22, as it is spelled out very clearly there.
And HE said they were ALL sons of ISRAEL:

Revelation 7:4 (ESV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

AND WENT ON TO SPECIFY THAT 12,000 WOULD BE FROM EACH TRIBE OF ISRAEL.

I BELIEVE GOD, you apparently believe something else.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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And HE said they were ALL sons of ISRAEL:

Revelation 7:4 (ESV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

AND WENT ON TO SPECIFY THAT 12,000 WOULD BE FROM EACH TRIBE OF ISRAEL.

I BELIEVE GOD, you apparently believe something else.
Where do you believe the sons of Israel are VCO today??? Prior to 1948 most of the world's Jewish population resided outside current Israel. While many have returned, most of the Jewish population remains outside Israel. Do you think they are all in Israel proper now?

Are you suggesting the 144,000 are all that will be left of Israel after the Tribulation??

Let's try a little math exercise shall we???

from Wikipedia:

The demography of Israel is monitored by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics. The State of Israel has a population of approximately 8,012,400 inhabitants as of 31 March 2013.[SUP][2][/SUP] 75.4 percent of them are Jewish (about 6,037,700 individuals), 20.6 percent are Arabs (about 1,656,600 individuals), while the remaining 4 percent (about 318,100 individuals) are defined as "others" (family members of Jewish immigrants who are not registered at the Ministry of Interior as Jews, non-Arab Christians, non-Arab Muslims and residents who do not have an ethnic or religious classification).

Let's only use the 6 million number that are Jews.

Zech 13:

8 And it shall come to pass in all the land," Says the Lord, "That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it:

9 I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, 'This is My people'; And each one will say, 'The Lord is my God.' "

According to this, if the Lord returned today, 2 million Jews would be saved. That is a heck of a lot more than 144,000 wouldn't you say?

Again, Rev 7 says 12,000 from each tribe will be SEALED before the Trumpets are blown. They are sealed on their foreheads which Biblically means they have the truth of God in their minds and cannot be deceived. NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING says they are within the boarders of National Israel. I suggest you stop jumping to conclusions and take what the Word actually says rather than interpreting it the way you want it to read. That is likely how you have allowed yourself to be deceived into believing this false Pre-Trib Rapture lie.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20"] Rank [/TD]
[TD="width: 100"] Country [/TD]
[TD="width: 150"] Core Jewish Population [/TD]
[TD="width: 150"] Enlarged population estimates [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]
Israel[/TD]
[TD] 6,042,000[SUP][2][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]6,300,000[SUP][3][/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]
United States[/TD]
[TD] 5,435,000[SUP][1][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]6,722,000[SUP][4][/SUP][SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]
France[/TD]
[TD] 483,500 [/TD]
[TD]600,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]
Canada[/TD]
[TD] 315,120[SUP][9][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]375000[SUP][10][/SUP] 385,000[SUP][11][/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]
United Kingdom[/TD]
[TD] 263,346[SUP][12][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]450,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]
Russia[/TD]
[TD] 205,000 [/TD]
[TD]400,000[SUP][13][/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]
Argentina[/TD]
[TD] 181,800[SUP][14][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]250,000[SUP][15][/SUP][SUP][16][/SUP][SUP][17][/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]
Germany[/TD]
[TD] 119,000[SUP][14][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]250,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]
Brazil|[/TD]
[TD] 107,329[SUP][18][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]200,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]
Australia[/TD]
[TD] 97,000[SUP][19][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]100,000[SUP][20][/SUP][SUP][21][/SUP][SUP][21][/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]
Ukraine[/TD]
[TD] 67,000[SUP][14][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]142,276[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]
South Africa[/TD]
[TD] 70,801[SUP][14][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]88,688[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]
Mexico[/TD]
[TD] 39,400[SUP][14][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]53,101[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]
Belgium[/TD]
[TD] 30,300[SUP][14][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]51,821[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]
Netherlands[/TD]
[TD] 29,900[SUP][14][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]32,814[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]
Italy[/TD]
[TD] 28,400[SUP][14][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]30,213[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]
Iran[/TD]
[TD] 8,756 [SUP][22][/SUP][SUP][23][/SUP][SUP][24][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]25,002[SUP][25][/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]
Chile[/TD]
[TD] 20,500[SUP][14][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]25,375[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]
Kazakhstan[/TD]
[TD] 18,000 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]
Switzerland[/TD]
[TD] 17,600 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]
Turkey[/TD]
[TD] 17,600 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]
Uruguay[/TD]
[TD] 17,500 [/TD]
[TD]30,743[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]
Belarus[/TD]
[TD] 16,500 [/TD]
[TD]72,103[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]
Azerbaijan[/TD]
[TD] 16,000 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]25[/TD]
[TD]
Sweden[/TD]
[TD] 15,000[SUP][1][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]18,003[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]26[/TD]
[TD]
Poland[/TD]
[TD] 12,000[SUP][26][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]30,000[SUP][27][/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]
Georgia[/TD]
[TD] 13,000 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]
Spain[/TD]
[TD] 12,000[SUP][1][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]48,409[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]29[/TD]
[TD]
Venezuela[/TD]
[TD] 12,000 [/TD]
[TD]20,900[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]
Hungary[/TD]
[TD] 10,965[SUP][28][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD]120,000[SUP][29][/SUP][SUP][30][/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]
Latvia[/TD]
[TD] 9,700 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]32[/TD]
[TD]
Romania[/TD]
[TD] 9,500[SUP][1][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]33[/TD]
[TD]
Austria[/TD]
[TD] 9,000 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]34[/TD]
[TD]
New Zealand[/TD]
[TD] 7,500[SUP][31][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]33[/TD]
[TD]
Denmark[/TD]
[TD] 7,000 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]
India[/TD]
[TD] 5,000[SUP][32][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]36[/TD]
[TD]
Hong Kong[/TD]
[TD] 5,000[SUP][33][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]
Czech Republic[/TD]
[TD] 4,000[SUP][34][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]38[/TD]
[TD]
China[/TD]
[TD] 2,500 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]39[/TD]
[TD]
Republic of Ireland[/TD]
[TD] 1,984[SUP][35][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]40[/TD]
[TD]
Finland[/TD]
[TD] 1,500[SUP][36][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]41[/TD]
[TD]
Tajikistan[/TD]
[TD] 900 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]42[/TD]
[TD]
Armenia[/TD]
[TD] 750 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]43[/TD]
[TD]
Turkmenistan[/TD]
[TD] 700[SUP][37][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]
Norway[/TD]
[TD] 153[SUP][38][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD]
Tahiti[/TD]
[TD] 120[SUP][39][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]46[/TD]
[TD]
South Korea[/TD]
[TD] 100 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]47[/TD]
[TD]
Syria[/TD]
[TD] 100 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]
Fiji[/TD]
[TD] 60[SUP][40][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]49[/TD]
[TD]
New Caledonia[/TD]
[TD] 50[SUP][41][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]50[/TD]
[TD]
Albania[/TD]
[TD] 45[SUP][42][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
Lebanon[/TD]
[TD] 40[SUP][43][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]52[/TD]
[TD]
Bahrain[/TD]
[TD] 30 [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]53[/TD]
[TD]
Palau[/TD]
[TD] 9[SUP][44][/SUP] [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,969
4,586
113
Where do you believe the sons of Israel are VCO today??? Prior to 1948 most of the world's Jewish population resided outside current Israel. While many have returned, most of the Jewish population remains outside Israel. Do you think they are all in Israel proper now?

Are you suggesting the 144,000 are all that will be left of Israel after the Tribulation??

Let's try a little math exercise shall we???

from Wikipedia:

The demography of Israel is monitored by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics. The State of Israel has a population of approximately 8,012,400 inhabitants as of 31 March 2013.[SUP][2][/SUP] 75.4 percent of them are Jewish (about 6,037,700 individuals), 20.6 percent are Arabs (about 1,656,600 individuals), while the remaining 4 percent (about 318,100 individuals) are defined as "others" (family members of Jewish immigrants who are not registered at the Ministry of Interior as Jews, non-Arab Christians, non-Arab Muslims and residents who do not have an ethnic or religious classification).

Let's only use the 6 million number that are Jews.

Zech 13:

8 And it shall come to pass in all the land," Says the Lord, "That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it:

9 I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, 'This is My people'; And each one will say, 'The Lord is my God.' "

According to this, if the Lord returned today, 2 million Jews would be saved. That is a heck of a lot more than 144,000 wouldn't you say?

Again, Rev 7 says 12,000 from each tribe will be SEALED before the Trumpets are blown. They are sealed on their foreheads which Biblically means they have the truth of God in their minds and cannot be deceived. NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING says they are within the boarders of National Israel. I suggest you stop jumping to conclusions and take what the Word actually says rather than interpreting it the way you want it to read. That is likely how you have allowed yourself to be deceived into believing this false Pre-Trib Rapture lie.

t t t

The 144,000 ARE CHOSEN BY GOD, to be sealed from harm to their MORTAL bodies during the Great Tribulation. WHY? To carry on the Promise of GOD that stated that the Covenant with ISRAEL will be an EVERLASTING COVENANT, thus THEY will be the ones to repopulate the Earth during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ from the THRONE OF DAVID. They certainly will be Jews who have received Messiah as their LORD.

Why do I say repopulate the Earth?

Revelation 6:9-11 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Thus any Jew who becomes a true believer in the LORD JESUS CHRIST during the Great Tribulation, who IS NOT part of the 144,000 chosen and sealed by GOD; will become beheaded martyred saints when they refuse the mark of the beast, just like all other people who are converted and receive Jesus Christ as LORD during the Great Tribulation.

AND WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL UNBELIEVERS WHEN CHRIST RETURNS AS KING OF kings?

Revelation 19:21 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] The rest were killed with the sword that came from the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
The 144,000 ARE CHOSEN BY GOD, to be sealed from harm to their MORTAL bodies during the Great Tribulation.
No, they are sealed on their foreheads. This means they are sealed with the knowledge and truth of the Word and cannot be deceived by Satan. It does not mean they cannot be killed.

THEY will be the ones to repopulate the Earth during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ from the THRONE OF DAVID.
No, this is wrong too. Those remaining of the 144K will be the remnant or those remaining after the Tribulation. They are the ones who get Raptured and reign with Christ for 1,000 years. They receive spiritual bodies and are the firstfruits redeemed from the earth. They are NOT going to be having children during the millennium.

until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
The 5th seal shows martyrs already killed in heaven awaiting vengeance. Yes, they must wait for the rest of their brethren who will be martyred during the tribulation before they see Christ take vengeance for them.

AND WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL UNBELIEVERS WHEN CHRIST RETURNS AS KING OF kings?

Revelation 19:21 (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] The rest were killed with the sword that came from the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
No, only those who came against Israel are killed, see Zech 14. The "rest" here is speaking of the Beast's armies. If the Lord kills everyone, there won't be any nations left for Him to rule over. See verse 15 of Rev 19:

15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

See what happens when your belief systems starts out with a false premise (Rapture doctrine)? It skews everything because you have to interpret the Word to fit your pre-Trib rapture belief. But if you take our Lord at HIS Word and believe that He comes AFTER the Tribulation as He said and as Paul confirms, then you see the rest of prophesy clearly. What a difference one lie makes!!!! Just ask Obama.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
WHAT A MINUTE! Enuch and Elijah did not die!
There are some problems with this statement. If Elijah didn't die, why did John the Baptist have to fulfill that office?

If neither of these guys died, where are they? They are not in Heaven...

Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

They did not receive the promises...

Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

In fact, if they are alive right now, then the bible is false...

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

And Christ really wasn't the Firstfruit...

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Nope, it won't be Enoch and Elijah.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
And we have another little problem here, Enoch and Elijah did not circumvent this scripture...

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: