Revelation chapter 12 Bible study.

[PlainWord]

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

Rev. 8:1 the seventh seal. This seal includes not only an earthquake, but the seven trumpet judgments (8:1-9:21; 11:15ff.) and the seven bowl judgments (16:1-21), with the bowl judgments flowing out of the seventh trumpet and coming in rapid succession just before Christ’s return (see note on 6:1). silence in heaven. The silence of awe and anticipation at the grim reality of the judgments God is about to unleash.
Rev. 8:2 seven trumpets. In Revelation, trumpets primarily announce impending judgment. The trumpets are of greater intensity than the seals, but not as destructive as the final bowl judgments will be (cf. 16:1-21). They occur during the final three and one-half years, but the time of each is indefinite, except the effects of the fifth trumpet judgment, which will last five months (9:10). The first four announce the divine destruction of earth’s ecology (vv. 6-12), while the final three involve demonic devastation of earth’s inhabitants (9:1-21; 11:15ff.).
Rev. 8:3 censer. A golden pan, suspended on a rope or chain, that was used to transport fiery coals from the brazen altar to the altar of incense, in order to ignite the incense, symbolizing the prayers of the people (5:8; Ex. 27:3; cf. Luke 1:8, 9). This occurred twice daily at the time of the morning and evening sacrifices.
Rev. 8:5 thunderings, lightnings. See note on 4:5. an earthquake. Surely of equal or greater intensity than the one described in the sixth seal (see note on 6:12).
Rev. 8:7 hail and fire followed, mingled with blood. This may describe volcanic eruptions that could certainly result from the earthquake in verse 5. The steam and water thrown into the sky by such eruptions could easily condense into hail and fall to earth along with the fiery lava (cf. Ex. 9:13-25). Dust and gases may so contaminate falling liquid water that it appears blood red. a third of the trees were burned up. The lava storm will create a blazing fire that devastates one-third of the earth’s forests.
Rev. 8:8 like a great mountain. Probably a huge meteor or asteroid surrounded by gases that will ignite as it enters earth’s atmosphere. Its impact will create a tidal wave, destroying one-third of the world’s ships. sea became blood. This may refer to an event known as red tides, caused by billions of dead microorganisms poisoning the water—in this case the result of the meteor’s collision. Or it may be actual blood, a clear act of eschatological judgment.
Rev. 8:10 great star fell. Another celestial body, perhaps a comet in this case since it leaves a fiery trail (see notes on v. 8; 6:13). It will disintegrate as it nears the earth, scattering over the globe.
Rev. 8:11 Wormwood. A bitter, poisonous substance, derived from a root, that causes drunkenness and eventually death (Deut. 29:18; Prov. 5:4; Jer. 9:15; Lam. 3:15).
[TABLE="class: cms_table"]
[TR]
[TH="colspan: 2"]The Seven Trumpets[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. Trumpet One
(Rev. 8:7)[/TD]
[TD]Ravaging fires[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Trumpet Two
(Rev. 8:8, 9)[/TD]
[TD]Seas polluted[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. Trumpet Three
(Rev. 8:10, 11)[/TD]
[TD]Fresh water contaminated[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4. Trumpet Four
(Rev. 8:12, 13)[/TD]
[TD]Celestial disruption[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5. Trumpet Five
(Rev. 9:1-12)[/TD]
[TD]Demon invasion[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6. Trumpet Six
(Rev. 9:13-21)[/TD]
[TD]Demons wage war[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7. Trumpet Seven
(Rev. 11:15-19)[/TD]
[TD]The seven bowls (see note on 6:1)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

That unfortunately is a literal interpretation which is wrong. Until recently I too thought the trumpets were literal but three things prove that the first 5 trumpets are indeed spiritual, or figurative, and not literal.

1) Christ says it will be like the Days of Noah prior to His return. Everything will appear normal. This can't be the case if the trumpets were literal as the world would be in utter chaos.

2) Christ gives a very detailed description of the end times in His Olivet Discourse. There are no mention of any of these trumpet events during the tribulation period. Mat 24:21-28. Instead, these passages deal mostly with Satan's deception and warnings about going out after the false Christ (false Rapture). The only trumpet or bowl event that is clearly evident is the 6-7 bowl which is the preparation for and execution of, Armageddon, Mat 24:28. The 5th trumpet is alluded to as it is the period of Satan's "teaching" or deception. The 6th trumpet is also hinted at as it is the actual slaughter of those who do not follow the Lord's warning and go out after the False One.

3) The Bowl judgments are clearly of God as we are told this. We are also told that they are poured out in double strength. A study of the Bowls compared to the earlier trumpets show that the bowls are indeed poured out in double strength. This means the earlier trumpets are of Satan.

Compare:

Bowl #2: the sea became blood and every living creature died
Trumpet #2: great mountain thrown into the sea and 1/3 of the sea become blood, 1/3 of living creatures died.

If you take 1/3 away from ALL with Trumpet 2. You are left with 2/3 of the original amount. Therefore the Bowl affects twice or double what the trumpet affects.

Bowl #3: (ALL) the rivers and springs of waters became blood.
Trumpet #3: A third of the waters become wormwood and many men died.

Again, you have ALL remaining (which is 2/3) of the rivers and springs of waters affected by the bowl where you had 1/3 affected by the trumpet.

Bowl #4: Poured out on the (whole) sun and power was given to him to scorch men with fire/great heat.
Trumpet #4: A third of the sun, moon and stars were struck darkening them by 1/3 both day and night.

Who is the LIGHT? Who is the HIM? Jesus and by extension Christians are to be the salt and light. LIGHT = TRUTH. I see trumpet 4 as deception and/or falling away of significant Christian influence which is countered by God by pouring out TRUTH probably through the 144K and/or 2 witnesses. We know the witnesses have power to turn "water to blood" and we know that "fire" or Truth comes out of their mouths. Rev 11:5-6.

 

[VCO]

That unfortunately is a literal interpretation which is wrong. Until recently I too thought the trumpets were literal but three things prove that the first 5 trumpets are indeed spiritual, or figurative, and not literal.

1) Christ says it will be like the Days of Noah prior to His return. Everything will appear normal. This can't be the case if the trumpets were literal as the world would be in utter chaos.

2) Christ gives a very detailed description of the end times in His Olivet Discourse. There are no mention of any of these trumpet events during the tribulation period. Mat 24:21-28. Instead, these passages deal mostly with Satan's deception and warnings about going out after the false Christ (false Rapture). The only trumpet or bowl event that is clearly evident is the 6-7 bowl which is the preparation for and execution of, Armageddon, Mat 24:28. The 5th trumpet is alluded to as it is the period of Satan's "teaching" or deception. The 6th trumpet is also hinted at as it is the actual slaughter of those who do not follow the Lord's warning and go out after the False One.

3) The Bowl judgments are clearly of God as we are told this. We are also told that they are poured out in double strength. A study of the Bowls compared to the earlier trumpets show that the bowls are indeed poured out in double strength. This means the earlier trumpets are of Satan.

Compare:

Bowl #2: the sea became blood and every living creature died
Trumpet #2: great mountain thrown into the sea and 1/3 of the sea become blood, 1/3 of living creatures died.

If you take 1/3 away from ALL with Trumpet 2. You are left with 2/3 of the original amount. Therefore the Bowl affects twice or double what the trumpet affects.

Bowl #3: (ALL) the rivers and springs of waters became blood.
Trumpet #3: A third of the waters become wormwood and many men died.

Again, you have ALL remaining (which is 2/3) of the rivers and springs of waters affected by the bowl where you had 1/3 affected by the trumpet.

Bowl #4: Poured out on the (whole) sun and power was given to him to scorch men with fire/great heat.
Trumpet #4: A third of the sun, moon and stars were struck darkening them by 1/3 both day and night.

Who is the LIGHT? Who is the HIM? Jesus and by extension Christians are to be the salt and light. LIGHT = TRUTH. I see trumpet 4 as deception and/or falling away of significant Christian influence which is counted by God by pouring out TRUTH probably through the 144K and/or 2 witnesses. We know the witnesses have power to turn "water to blood" and we know that "fire" or Truth comes out of their mouths. Rev 11:5-6.

You NEVER did tell tell me who has been teaching you this theology?

 

[PlainWord]

I pretty much do agree with Trumpets 5-7 interpretation of MacArthur. I do think we will be invaded by demons. Jude paints a pretty scary picture. Whether these "Demons" take on obvious forms or whether they simply possess people is unclear to me. The description given matches almost perfectly the crest of Pope Francis (see below). The description of the locusts and of the 200 million "demonic" army are very similar and could represent religious people, perhaps a hybrid of Catholic/Muslim. I feel pretty strongly that these two religions will become the One World Religion of the Beast. These two religions account for almost half the world's population today.

7 The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. 8 They had hair like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' teeth. 9 And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle. 10 They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. Their power was to hurt men five months. 17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone. 18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed--by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.

 

[PlainWord]

You NEVER did tell tell me who has been teaching you this theology?

Nobody. It comes from my own study. See Acts 2:17

 

[VCO]

Nobody. It comes from my own study. See Acts 2:17

SO, you mis-use that verse to totally ignore what GOD says here:

Ephesians 4:11-14 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
[SUP]12 [/SUP] for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,

AND thus you do not arrive at the "unity of the faith".

So you do not think you NEED to sit and listen to the men GOD has gifted with the education and spiritual guidance to Teach us? AND all on your own you have decided these men were all wrong, and you were right.

Proverbs 8:33 (ASV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Hear instruction, and be wise, And refuse it not.

Ecclesiastes 5:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Guard your steps when you go to the house of God. To draw near to listen is better than to offer the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they are doing evil.

Proverbs 19:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Listen to counsel and receive instruction so that you may be wise later in life.

Proverbs 12:15 (ASV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The way of a fool is right in his own eyes; But he that is wise hearkeneth unto counsel.

 

[Isdaniel]

1 john 2

26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

 

[Kerry]

You can't argue with the cross. Nothing like Daniel will tell you its the law. Because law tickles the flesh and he rolls in it. the cross will offend because, you didn't and cannot do it. It is by God and only faith in the cross can set you free, Not the law of fake Isdaniel.

 

[PlainWord]

SO, you mis-use that verse to totally ignore what GOD says here:

Ephesians 4:11-14 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
[SUP]12 [/SUP] for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
[SUP]13 [/SUP] till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,

AND thus you do not arrive at the "unity of the faith".

So you do not think you NEED to sit and listen to the men GOD has gifted with the education and spiritual guidance to Teach us? AND all on your own you have decided these men were all wrong, and you were right.

Proverbs 8:33 (ASV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] Hear instruction, and be wise, And refuse it not.

Ecclesiastes 5:1 (ESV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Guard your steps when you go to the house of God. To draw near to listen is better than to offer the sacrifice of fools, for they do not know that they are doing evil.

Proverbs 19:20 (HCSB)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Listen to counsel and receive instruction so that you may be wise later in life.

Proverbs 12:15 (ASV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The way of a fool is right in his own eyes; But he that is wise hearkeneth unto counsel.

If man speaks truth, I embrace it. If man speaks lies, I condemn it. I don't care how many mortal men preach the Pre-Trib Rapture, if God did not teach it, they are false prophets. Let's see what our Lord God has said about false prophets in the past.

Ezek 13:

2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy , and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;

3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.

5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying , The LORD saith : and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say , The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken ?

8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying , Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go , even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

It would appear here that the Lord is against those that hunt souls to make them fly. What does the Lord say about those who speak lies? HE IS AGAINST THEM. I don't think the Lord is impressed with any religious man who tells lies and distorts His WORD.

2 Timothy 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred , saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

The Rapture lie would teach the Lord comes before He says He comes, thus it teaches in a resurrection before the real resurrection. This error will overthrow the faith of some. Judgment starts at the pulpit. Those teaching the Rapture lie are teaching Satan's lie and when the False One comes, they will lead their sheep to the slaughter. Woe to them!! I would not want to be in their shoes.

 

[VCO]

If man speaks truth, I embrace it. If man speaks lies, I condemn it. I don't care how many mortal men preach the Pre-Trib Rapture, if God did not teach it, they are false prophets. Let's see what our Lord God has said about false prophets in the past.

Ezek 13:

2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy , and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;

3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.

5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.

6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying , The LORD saith : and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say , The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken ?

8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD.

9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying , Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:

20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go , even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

It would appear here that the Lord is against those that hunt souls to make them fly. What does the Lord say about those who speak lies? HE IS AGAINST THEM. I don't think the Lord is impressed with any religious man who tells lies and distorts His WORD.

2 Timothy 2:
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18 Who concerning the truth have erred , saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

The Rapture lie would teach the Lord comes before He says He comes, thus it teaches in a resurrection before the real resurrection. This error will overthrow the faith of some. Judgment starts at the pulpit. Those teaching the Rapture lie are teaching Satan's lie and when the False One comes, they will lead their sheep to the slaughter. Woe to them!! I would not want to be in their shoes.

Titus 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] looking for the blessed hope and the appearing {NOT the Second Coming seven years later.}
of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

The APPEARING in the SKY only = VERY FAST like lightning flashes across the Sky.

The Second Coming where He sets foot on the Mt. of Olives = VERY SLOW, long enough for the World's Armies to gather in the Valley of Megiddo.

 

[GBrowning]

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, THAT NO PROPHECY of the scripture is of any PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.

WOMAN
​

Church; in this case it is the GODS Church or Gods/Jesus people.
Ephesians 5:22-33 compares the union of husband and wife to that of Christ and the church.
Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23. For the husband is the head of the wife, even AS CHRIST IS THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH: and he is the savior of the body.
24. Therefore AS THE CHURCH IS SUBJECT UNTO CHRIST, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25. HUSBANDS, LOVE YOUR WIVES, EVEN AS CHRIST ALSO LOVED THE CHURCH, and gave himself for it;

26. That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27. That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loves his wife loves himself.
29. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it, EVEN AS
THE LORD THE CHURCH:
30. For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32. THIS IS A GREAT MYSTERY: BUT I SPEAK CONCERNING CHRIST AND THE CHURCH.
33. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, PREPARED AS A BRIDEADORNED FOR HER HUSBAND.

Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I WILL SHEW THEE THE BRIDE, THE LAMB'S WIFE.

So when the BIBLE references the Antichrist as a women in Rev 17, God is telling us it is a church.

Isaiah 62:5 ...and as the bridegroom rejoices over the BRIDE, so shall thy GOD rejoice over THEE.

Jeremiah 6:2I have likened the DAUGHTER of ZION to a comely and delicate WOMAN.

Jeremiah 7:34Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, THE VOICE OF THE BRIDEGROOM, AND THE VOICE OF THE BRIDE: for the land shall be desolate.

Zephaniah 3:13 The REMNANT OF ISRAEL shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
14. Sing, O DAUGHTER OF ZION; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O DAUGHTER OF JERUSALEM.

John 3:29 He that hath the BRIDE is the BRIDEGROOM: but the friend of the BRIDEGROOM, which stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled”.

12 STARS
​

12 tribes of Israel
Gods church from Old Testament and Today are part of his 12 tribes of Israel spiritually. We who follow Jesus are the restored or remanant 12 tribes.

Isaiah 10:22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a REMNANT of them shall return:
Romans 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a REMNANT shall be saved :

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the REMNANT of her SEED , which KEEP the COMMANDMENTS of God, and have the TESTIMONY of Jesus Christ.

WHEN YOU FOLLOW JESUS/GOD WHO ARE YOU???
Galations 3:27-19 [SUP]
26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]There is NEITHER JEW nor Greek(GENTILE; mistranslation), there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And if ye be Christ's, then are ye ABRAHAM'S SEED, and HEIRS according to the promise.

Romans 2:28-29 ONE is NOT a Jew/Israelite OUTWARDLY (race) but ONE is a Jew/Israelite INWARDLY by FAITH and the HOLY SPIRIT! (so what the Jews did, so should you; WAKE UP!)
This was the same in the Old Testament, the Jews were just ONE tribe of Judah, so you got to get race out of your mind, there is no race in gods eyes just followers regardless of race which is a man made curse of Dr. Evil Satan himself and his Menions. During the time Jesus was with us was two tribes Judah and Benjamen, Jesus was from Judah and Paul the apostle was from Benjamen tribe.
Look at Exodus of Moses and the 12 tribes of Israel named after Jacob. Remember why everyone was in Egypt to begin with; was because of the famine, God gave Joseph the interpretation of the Pharoahs dream and all nations at that time came to Egypt because of the 7 year famine.
When they left Egypt, all the children of Jacob (Israel) or descendants of Jacob leave with Moses in Exodus 12:37 but in the next verse 38, it says and a MIXED MULTITUDE also left with them. So again the 12 tribes in the Old Testament consisted of mixed races or nationals, so ANYONE who follows God & his son JESUS are Israelites INWARDLY by FAITH and the SPIRIT (Romans 2:28-29).
So when you hear people say Ohh, thats what the Jews did; is correct, and we should do the same, because they were only ONE of the 12 Tribes, that followed what God INSTRUCTED them to do. PLEASE quit saying thats what the Jews did, they did not INVENT the 7th day Sabbath or Gods Holy Days, or other commands, they only followed GODS INSTRUCTIONS!
Hebrews 10 Nothing changed except sacrifice, offerings and holy spirit that puts GODS LAWS into our minds and hearts, he did NOT do away with them. Accidental sin is normal, what we do WILLFULLY is what he judges us on AFTER receiving his truth. We can't use his grace as a fallback for doing what you want.

 

[GBrowning]

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, THAT NO PROPHECY of the scripture is of any PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]
WOMAN
Church; in this case it is the GODS Church or Gods/Jesus people.
Ephesians 5:22-33 compares the union of husband and wife to that of Christ and the church.
Ephesians 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23. For the husband is the head of the wife, even AS CHRIST IS THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH: and he is the savior of the body.
24. Therefore AS THE CHURCH IS SUBJECT UNTO CHRIST, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25. HUSBANDS, LOVE YOUR WIVES, EVEN AS CHRIST ALSO LOVED THE CHURCH, and gave himself for it;

26. That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27. That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loves his wife loves himself.
29. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it, EVEN AS THE LORD THE CHURCH:

30. For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32. THIS IS A GREAT MYSTERY: BUT I SPEAK CONCERNING CHRIST AND THE CHURCH.

33. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, PREPARED AS A BRIDEADORNED FOR HER HUSBAND.

Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I WILL SHEW THEE THE BRIDE, THE LAMB'S WIFE.

So when the BIBLE references the Antichrist as a women in Rev 17, God is telling us it is a church.

Isaiah 62:5 ...and as the bridegroom rejoices over the BRIDE, so shall thy GOD rejoice over THEE.

Jeremiah 6:2I have likened the DAUGHTER of ZION to a comely and delicate WOMAN.

Jeremiah 7:34Then will I cause to cease from the cities of Judah, and from the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, THE VOICE OF THE BRIDEGROOM, AND THE VOICE OF THE BRIDE: for the land shall be desolate.

Zephaniah 3:13 The REMNANT OF ISRAEL shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.
14. Sing, O DAUGHTER OF ZION; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O DAUGHTER OF JERUSALEM.

John 3:29 He that hath the BRIDE is the BRIDEGROOM: but the friend of the BRIDEGROOM, which stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled”.
12 STARS
12 tribes of Israel
Gods church from Old Testament and Today are part of his 12 tribes of Israel spiritually. We who follow Jesus are the restored or remanant 12 tribes.

Isaiah 10:22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a REMNANTof them shall return:
Romans 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a REMNANTshall be saved :

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the REMNANTof her SEED , which KEEP the COMMANDMENTSof God, and have the TESTIMONY of Jesus Christ.

WHEN YOU FOLLOW JESUS/GOD WHO ARE YOU???
Galations 3:27-19 [SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]There is NEITHER JEW nor Greek(GENTILE; mistranslation), there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

[SUP]29 [/SUP]And if ye be Christ's, then are ye ABRAHAM'S SEED, and HEIRS according to the promise.


Romans 2:28-29 ONE is NOT a Jew/Israelite OUTWARDLY (race) but ONE is a Jew/Israelite INWARDLY by FAITH and the HOLY SPIRIT! (so what the Jews did, so should you; WAKE UP!)
This was the same in the Old Testament, the Jews were just ONE tribe of Judah, so you got to get race out of your mind, there is no race in gods eyes just followers regardless of race which is a man made curse of Dr. Evil Satan himself and his Menions. During the time Jesus was with us was two tribes Judah and Benjamen, Jesus was from Judah and Paul the apostle was from Benjamen tribe.
Look at Exodus of Moses and the 12 tribes of Israel named after Jacob. Remember why everyone was in Egypt to begin with; was because of the famine, God gave Joseph the interpretation of the Pharoahs dream and all nations at that time came to Egypt because of the 7 year famine.
When they left Egypt, all the children of Jacob (Israel) or descendants of Jacob leave with Moses in Exodus 12:37 but in the next verse 38, it says and a MIXED MULTITUDE also left with them. So again the 12 tribes in the Old Testament consisted of mixed races or nationals, so ANYONE who follows God & his son JESUS are Israelites INWARDLY by FAITH and the SPIRIT (Romans 2:28-29).
So when you hear people say Ohh, thats what the Jews did; is correct, and we should do the same, because they were only ONE of the 12 Tribes, that followed what God INSTRUCTED them to do. PLEASE quit saying thats what the Jews did, they did not INVENT the 7th day Sabbath or Gods Holy Days, or other commands, they only followed GODS INSTRUCTIONS!
Hebrews 10 Nothing changed except sacrifice, offerings and holy spirit that puts GODS LAWS into our minds and hearts, he did NOT do away with them. Accidental sin is normal, what we do WILLFULLY is what he judges us on AFTER receiving his truth. We can't use his grace as a fallback for doing what you want.

 

[GBrowning]

MOON
​

Pay ATTENTION to the BIBLE not your CHURCH but to GODS WORD

JEREMIAH 31:31-36
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Not according to the COVENANT that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith GOD :
[SUP]33 [/SUP]But this shall be the COVENANT that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith GOD, I will put my LAW in their inward parts(Mind), and write it in their HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (repeated in Hebrews 8:10 & Hebrews 10:16 EVEYONE SHOULD MEMORIZE ALL OF HEBREWS 10)
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know GOD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith GOD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ORDINANCES of the MOON and of the STARS for a LIGHT by NIGHT, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; OUR GOD/YHWH of hosts is his name:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]IF those ORDINANCES DEPART FROM BEFORE ME, saith YHWH/GOD, then the SEED of Israel(anyone who follows Jesus/God)also shall cease from being a nation before me FOREVER.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Thus saith GOD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the SEED of Israel for all that they have done, saith GOD/YHWH.

Zechariah 14:16It shall come to pass, that every one that is left (second coming) of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to KEEPthe FEAST OF TABERNACLES.


[SUP]Isaiah 66:22-23[/SUP][SUP]
[/SUP][SUP]22 [/SUP]For as the NEW HEAVENS and the NEW EARTH, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith GOD, so shall your SEED and your NAME remain.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass, that from one NEW MOON to another, and from one SABBATH to another, shall ALL flesh come to worship before me, saith God.

Today people are so brainwashed into the Pagan Sun Worship instituted by the Catholic church with her Calendar, false doctrines and pagan holidays made into Christian holidays that told never to do in Deuteronomy 12:29-33, Jeremiah 10, Exodus 23:13 God told us not to mention or speak pagan god names but here we are today with the beast calendar speaking pagan names for six months and 5 days of the week.
People ignore GODS CALENDAR set by the MOON even though it is right there in the bible for all to see.
Crescent NEW MOON SETS GODS CALENDAR:
1. MONTHS= Numbers 28 the Israelites gave sacrifices each New Moon.
2. NEW YEARS= Exodus 12:2 This month shall be a new month and NEW YEAR (Passover & Unleavened Bread & Firstfruits Month)
3. HOLY DAYS= count days after the new moon to appointed Holy days like 14th Passover etc..
Jesus fulfilled the spring feast and see how symbolic his holy days are, there are 7 feast days in Unleavened bread and 7 weeks separate Pentecost from Firstfruits and 7 the seventh month starts the FALL Holy days and there are 7 feast days in Tabernacles, symbolic how Jesus will return on the 7th millennium/month on Day of Trumpets.
Jesus has to fulfill all the holy days or there is no Jesus, so if some supernatural event happens like some aliens landing in Jerusalem and claim to be our true creators and its not the Day of Trumpets than you know its a demonic sign that will fool even Gods elect in Matthew 24. This is why it is so important to follow GODS MOON ORDINANCES HIS HOLY DAYS.

Today people follow pagan sun worship calendars and holidays like Christmas(Tammuz), Sun New Years(Winter Solstice), Valentines, Easter, Halloween (Samhain), and Thanksgiving (Demeter/Ceres or Cerelia).

EXODUS 20 God gave his followers the 10 commandments and in Leviticus 23:14, 21, 31, & 41 Which are the most recognized commands but there were 600-1000 commands and people tend to threw that in your face when you say we should keep his instructions. What most people don't understand is most of these laws were sacrifice and temple laws like measurements and colors etc...and Jesus did away with these in Hebrews 10.

GOD commanded us to follow HIS, GODS HOLY DAYS not the Jews, they only followed what GOD INTRUCTED them to do. GOD gave us these days because they are 100% about Jesus, and are rehearsals God gave us, because his son JESUS would fulfill these days, these are not holidays but HOLY DAYS. Jesus fulfilled Passover, Unleavened bread, Firstfruits and Pentecost, and in Luke 22:16-19 he told us to "DO THIS IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME" and he would continue these days when he returns after he fulfills the rest of the Holy Days "TILL ALL BE FULFILLED in the KINGDOM"
Matthew 7:7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men...
Mans traditions turned this into some juice and cracker session called the Last Supper and Communion or Mass, but the Tradition of God is having the PASSOVER MEAL and eating Unleavened Bread with it, and after Passover began the 7 days of Unleavened bread that reminded us to be like Jesus without sin to live our lives sinless as his witness.
Jesus and his disciples keeping the Holy Days like they did all their lives and like the first one in Egypt with Moses in Exodus 12. For thousands of years since Moses, Gods Followers kept Gods Traditions and Instructions and Jesus and his disciples did the same, Remember Jesus is the son of God and also was the Commander of these days, so he is fulfilling his law of Passover and Unleavened Bread. Matthew 5:17Think NOT that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy , but to FULFILL.
He fulfills the Holy Day laws and expanded the commandments into thinking about sin is just as guilty. The apostles followed also in the New Testament as instructed, and NO they weren't there just to convert Jews but because they were following GODS TRADITION since he gave the command to Moses.

Acts 2:1 And when the DAY OF PENTECOST WAS FULLY COME, they were all with one accord in one place.
2. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with OTHER TONGUES, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem JEWS, DEVOUT MEN, OUT OF EVERY NATION UNDER HEAVEN.
6. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
So you see here in Acts 2 everyone who is following God is observing Pentecost as was there custom, Jesus had ascended 10 days prior and yet the people were still followings GODS Law. Note it is NOT just Jews, but every nation under heaven is present here when Pentecost if fulfilled, Gods/Abraham's SEED/word is not about race again, but all about faith in, who follows him, Jesus was a direct descendant of David (Matthew 1) and Paul was from tribe of Benjamen, but all who followed Jesus then, today and back in Moses times are all Israelite's by faith Exodus 12:38, Romans 2:28-29, Galatians 3:27-29.


Acts 18:21 But bade them farewell, saying, I MUST BY ALL MEANS KEEP THIS FEAST that comes in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if GOD will. And he sailed from Ephesus.


Acts 20:6And we sailed away from Philippi AFTER THE DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where WE SPENT SEVEN DAYS.
Seven Days of Unleavened Bread from the 15[SUP]th[/SUP] - 21[SUP]st[/SUP] day of the month after the crescent new moon is spotted.


Acts 20:16For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted , IF IT WERE POSSIBLE FOR HIM, TO BE AT JERUSALEM THE DAY OF PENTECOST.
After he followed Unleavened Bread in verse 6, now he is talking about keeping Pentecost which is 50 days after the Firstfruits day, on the first day of the week that followed the weekly sabbath during the 7 days of Unleavened Bread.

Acts 27:9 Now when much time was spent, and when sailing was now dangerous, because THE FAST(Day of Atonement)WAS NOW ALREADY PAST, Paul admonished (rebuked or scolded) them!

I Corinthians 5:8 Therefore LET US KEEP THE FEAST; not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Paul is celebrating the Unleavened Bread feast and his reminding the people, not to continue in their old sins, which is malice and wicked, but live sinless with sincerity and truth not for salvation by works but by faith alone.

LET NO ONE JUDGE US.
Colossians 2:16-17, which states, “Let no man therefore JUDGE you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an HOLY DAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS: Which are a SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of the Messiah.”
Paul is telling his missionarys/people of Colossi to OBSERVE the Leviticus 23 Holy & Feast days, dietary laws, and NOT let anyone judge you for doing so. He knows the people of Colossi are embeded in pagan sun worship, eating swine and drinking blood and know people there will mock them for keeping Gods Holy Days. He is telling his people NOT to let the Colossi or anyone judge you for following Gods commanded laws, Dietary, Holy Days, set by the New Moon observance, and Sabbath's weekly and 7 sabbaths in the Holy Days.

Today’s modern churches twist this verse in Colossians 2 around, from its true meaning. It does NOT make any sense to SAY Paul is telling people not to follow them, when they are commandments God gave us. Paul has been following since birth and all through Acts, Corinthians and now in Colossians! The key verse is SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME, and the BODY (WORD) of Jesus. Jesus still has to finish fulfilling the holy days and from old to new testament, God told us we will still continue them in the 1000 years reign. Luke 22:16 I will not eat again UNTIL all is fulfilled in the kingdom by in the mean time "DO THIS IN REMBERANCE OF ME"

 

[GBrowning]

WRAPPED WITH THE SUN
Holy Ghost is our LIGHT our WITNESS because his CHURCH WITNESSES Jesus and are his SHINING LIGHT by following his Laws, only for love, faith, not for works of salvation. We cant look at law keeping as salvation but only because we love who we follow. Everyone should know who we follow without even preaching to them.
His holy spirit fills those who follow him and they rebuke accidental sin and commit no WILLfull sin. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego should be our example everytime we confront sin, obey to the death for love and faith only so we will always be his witness.

The thief on the cross next to Jesus was under the law and never kept the law but was pardoned without keeping any laws or holy days but he was forgiven. This is what happens when you accept Jesus, he gives you a pardon. Now that the Governor Jesus has pardoned you, he tells you go, and sin no more. Now what happens if you go back to practicing sin/theifing again. John 8: Has no one condemned you?” [SUP]11 [/SUP]She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and FROM NOW ON, SIN NO MORE.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who PRACTICES SIN, is a slave to sin.
Hebrews 10:26-39 (plainly said) IF you SIN WILLFULLY, after receiving the truth, there remains no more sacrifice. Those who set aside or ignore the law God gave Moses, dies without mercy, so how much punishment will you deserve for stomping all over Jesus's grace to willfully sin, for he said "Vengance is mine; I will repay. 39. for those who shrink back I will destroy.

TEMPLE MESSAGE/PRAYER
I now leave the WORLD behind and follow Jesus (outer courtyard), come into my temple Jesus and everything you would not do, I will not do also, not because it is going to save me, but because I love you and I want to walk as you walked.
I know you are our Passover for sin, and our Unleavened/Sinless sacrifice. I recognize you are the Firstfruits to rise from the dead & enter into the kingdom.
I ask forgiveness for all my iniquitys and I promise to obey your word willfully and ask you to bath me with your holy spirit (Pentecost) to guide me in your word and traditions. I will fight to the death to keep you word, your instructions from the beginning regardless of persecution from the world around me. For example: I will labor (Hebrews 4) to keep your weekly and Holy sabbaths and if my job keeps me from honoring your Sabbaths from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset (Lev 23:32), and your holy days sabbaths. I will quit my job if my boss ignores my request to keep your word. I know I want to witness you my savior, regardless of the consequences. Nothing I have matters, all my earthly possessions now belong to you, and if I loose all, it will not matter, for I know you will look out for me either here on earth or in your kingdom to come, thy will be done.
I will study your word (shew bread), I will witness you and be your shining light (candlestick), and I know you will keep the spirit in me (incense) and pray always for forgiveness and to keep me from sin and in his grace. I want to continue in your word and do it your way.
I know you will come again to establish your kingdom on the Day of Trumpets and you will atone for my sins on judgment day (Day of Atonement) I hope and pray I will be with you at that harvest (Feast of Tabernacles) and live with you a 1000 more years here on earth continuing your feast and traditions with you, until that last great day when you make a new heaven in the Last Great Day and beginning of the 8th millennium in you new heaven.
I only want to be your witness by keeping your laws or instructions faithfully and not because I think I deserve your grace for doing so. Jesus have mercy on me before your father and my God, please forgive all my iniquity’s for I know you are my only hope to receive life and the kingdom through your grace alone. I know you sacrificed for my sins (commandments & blue curtain) and are the only Authority (rod of Aaron & purple curtain) and the living word and body that gives life (manna & red curtain). AMEN!

 

[VCO]

That unfortunately is a literal interpretation which is wrong. Until recently I too thought the trumpets were literal but three things prove that the first 5 trumpets are indeed spiritual, or figurative, and not literal.

1) Christ says it will be like the Days of Noah prior to His return. Everything will appear normal. This can't be the case if the trumpets were literal as the world would be in utter chaos.

2) Christ gives a very detailed description of the end times in His Olivet Discourse. There are no mention of any of these trumpet events during the tribulation period. Mat 24:21-28. Instead, these passages deal mostly with Satan's deception and warnings about going out after the false Christ (false Rapture). The only trumpet or bowl event that is clearly evident is the 6-7 bowl which is the preparation for and execution of, Armageddon, Mat 24:28. The 5th trumpet is alluded to as it is the period of Satan's "teaching" or deception. The 6th trumpet is also hinted at as it is the actual slaughter of those who do not follow the Lord's warning and go out after the False One.

3) The Bowl judgments are clearly of God as we are told this. We are also told that they are poured out in double strength. A study of the Bowls compared to the earlier trumpets show that the bowls are indeed poured out in double strength. This means the earlier trumpets are of Satan.

Compare:

Bowl #2: the sea became blood and every living creature died
Trumpet #2: great mountain thrown into the sea and 1/3 of the sea become blood, 1/3 of living creatures died.

If you take 1/3 away from ALL with Trumpet 2. You are left with 2/3 of the original amount. Therefore the Bowl affects twice or double what the trumpet affects.

Bowl #3: (ALL) the rivers and springs of waters became blood.
Trumpet #3: A third of the waters become wormwood and many men died.

Again, you have ALL remaining (which is 2/3) of the rivers and springs of waters affected by the bowl where you had 1/3 affected by the trumpet.

Bowl #4: Poured out on the (whole) sun and power was given to him to scorch men with fire/great heat.
Trumpet #4: A third of the sun, moon and stars were struck darkening them by 1/3 both day and night.

Who is the LIGHT? Who is the HIM? Jesus and by extension Christians are to be the salt and light. LIGHT = TRUTH. I see trumpet 4 as deception and/or falling away of significant Christian influence which is countered by God by pouring out TRUTH probably through the 144K and/or 2 witnesses. We know the witnesses have power to turn "water to blood" and we know that "fire" or Truth comes out of their mouths. Rev 11:5-6.

WE KNOW the Two Witnesses will be KILLED in the Streets of Jerusalem, AND that it is given unto every man ONCE to die.

WHAT A MINUTE! Enuch and Elijah did not die!

Oh and believe me if those two were transported through time, to be the TWO WITNESSES, every Jew would listen to them as they pointed out, JESUS CHRIST IS YOUR MESSIAH.

 

[zone]

Pay ATTENTION to the BIBLE not your CHURCH but to GODS WORD

Zechariah 14:16 It shall come to pass, that every one that is left (second coming) of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to KEEP the FEAST OF TABERNACLES.

which bible are you using?

none of the bibles i reference say "...every one that is left (second coming) of all the nations..."

 

[konroh]

Going off post to new Brown-- you misquoted Rom. 9:27, it says "All Israel is saved" not a remnant. Also, this idea that the Jews is just one tribe of Israel from Judah is false. And there were other tribes in Jesus day besides Judah and Benjamin, Anna the prophetess who saw the infant Jesus is from the tribe of Asher, not a lost tribe.

Other than that, sorry to respond to this obvious spam-bombing of bibliosity and agenda.

 

[Isdaniel]

WE KNOW the Two Witnesses will be KILLED in the Streets of Jerusalem, AND that it is given unto every man ONCE to die.

WHAT A MINUTE! Enuch and Elijah did not die!

Oh and believe me if those two were transported through time, to be the TWO WITNESSES, every Jew would listen to them as they pointed out, JESUS CHRIST IS YOUR MESSIAH.

How long is the 3 1/2 days ? Is it 84 hours

Revelation 11

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

 

[PlainWord]

Titus 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] looking for the blessed hope and the appearing {NOT the Second Coming seven years later.}
of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

The APPEARING in the SKY only = VERY FAST like lightning flashes across the Sky.

The Second Coming where He sets foot on the Mt. of Olives = VERY SLOW, long enough for the World's Armies to gather in the Valley of Megiddo.

Here again you don't have anything that says what you say? The blessed hope is for the Lord's return. If there is only ONE return of the Lord then it has to apply to the Second Coming.

This whole thing about the Lord coming in the clouds for a Rapture then coming on the Mount of Olives for the second coming is a joke. You have no way of knowing whether or not the Lord first gathers the remnant in the clouds then touches down on the mount vs. what you say which is He does a U-Turn and takes us all back to heaven. Since neither are told us with certainty, why do you think it more compelling that the Lord does a U-turn instead of just gathering us and landing with us?

Secondly, I showed in an earlier post that the Greek for "clouds" as used could refer to fog on a mountaintop. If this was the correct translation, then the Lord lands on the mountaintop where the angels gather His remnant to him thereby totally destroying the Rapture theory which violates and creates so many conflicts of scripture.

 

[PlainWord]

WE KNOW the Two Witnesses will be KILLED in the Streets of Jerusalem, AND that it is given unto every man ONCE to die.

WHAT A MINUTE! Enuch and Elijah did not die!

Oh and believe me if those two were transported through time, to be the TWO WITNESSES, every Jew would listen to them as they pointed out, JESUS CHRIST IS YOUR MESSIAH.

According to research I have been doing, 2% of National Israel are Messianic Jews, thus would be saved. We know that 2/3 will be cut off and 1/3 are taken through fire during "Jacob's Trouble" and saved. (We know from the 144K, 12K from each tribe, 10 of these tribes are scattered all over the world and thus could be just about anybody from any race). Yes, two famous witnesses return and I do believe they have a dramatic effect on the faith of National Israel. Going from 2% to 33% would be a HUGE jump.

As to the identity, I don't think you can assume they will be Enoch and Elijah. Enoch was taken pre-flood which was a different era. He would not be known to national Israel as he predated the Flood, Abraham and the Jewish nation.

There is compelling evidence which suggests the other witness will be Moses, Mat 17:3. The appointed to die once has exceptions as the remnant will also not face death. We also had some people die twice already, Lazarus was one example.

 

[VCO]

Here again you don't have anything that says what you say? The blessed hope is for the Lord's return. If there is only ONE return of the Lord then it has to apply to the Second Coming.

This whole thing about the Lord coming in the clouds for a Rapture then coming on the Mount of Olives for the second coming is a joke. You have no way of knowing whether or not the Lord first gathers the remnant in the clouds then touches down on the mount vs. what you say which is He does a U-Turn and takes us all back to heaven. Since neither are told us with certainty, why do you think it more compelling that the Lord does a U-turn instead of just gathering us and landing with us?

Secondly, I showed in an earlier post that the Greek for "clouds" as used could refer to fog on a mountaintop. If this was the correct translation, then the Lord lands on the mountaintop where the angels gather His remnant to him thereby totally destroying the Rapture theory which violates and creates so many conflicts of scripture.

t t t
The Church is NOT the Remnant of Israel, the 144,000. The Church is HIS Bride and that includes believers in Messiah as LORD from all time, up to when HE comes for his Bride, and the Wedding will take place in Heaven in the new Dwelling Place that He has Built for in His Father's House. I believe that New Dwelling Place truly is the New City Jerusalem, that will be lowered to the Earth at the end of Revelation.

Simplified Jewish Traditions explanation of the Wedding Proposal, the New Dwelling Place, the Calling out of the Bride, and the Wedding of the Lamb - for children and new Believers.
The Jewish Wedding - A Picture of Christ & The Church Bride | helpforhomeschoolers.com

Detailed Jewish Traditions explanation of the Wedding Proposal, the New Dwelling Place, the Calling out of the Bride, and the Wedding of the Lamb - for mature Believers.
Apocalypse soon - Rosh HaShanah - (1) The Wedding of the Messiah , (2) The Feast of Trumpets