The Letter to the Romans...

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H

Hoffco

Guest
my brief recap of the first three chapters:

chap 1--everyone's bad

chap 2--everyone's bad

chap 3--ellie is bad...

take it from there.

ps-- good work, Elin!
love you!
SORRY. psychomom, your "recap " of Romans, chapters 1-3 is totally lop sided. In each of his first 3 chps. Paul is contrasting the Righteous, Godly Christians to the Ungodly pagans, in ch.1. Then in ch2, we see the self righteous, lost Jew (s), compared to the Righteous, saved, Sanctified, by the Spirit, Gentile and Jew of ch.2. Ch.2:29 concludes God's work of the New Birth seen in chps. 1&2. (Heart circumcision by the Spirit) Then in ch.3: 1-20 Paul condemns the whole world, Jew and Gentile, and in 3:21-31, Paul is praising God's Justification by Grace and Faith of the elect, saved persons, in the world. SORRY,! But, you and Elin are totally ignorant of the great salvation introduced in chps. 1&2, Sanctification begun, the radical brake with sin and the holy life in ch.1&2, which results in eternal life promised to the good persons of 2:6-11 vs.11, concludes," For there is no partiality with God" God gives the righteous, eternal life and He gives the evil, eternal wrath. Then ch.3:21 begins Justification.
No one can get Romans right if they miss this great teaching of chps. 1&2&3. Please, just read it with an open heart and mind to God to teach you. Love Hoffco
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
I am looking for a few good theologians or young Christians ,not pigheaded in error, willing to submit to the words of the Bible,. Please join me on this in depth study. Love to all Hoffco
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
The apostasy is in full bloom in the world today. and the true churches are so effected by it ,that we can not believe all of what Bible teachers are telling us today. False teachings abound in all bible believing churches. Love Hoffco
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
Romans 1:1-6
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, including you who are called to belong to Jesus Christ,


What Paul's Saying...

So Paul introduces himself, acknowledges his calling, and our calling to preach “the gospel” to the nations which was promised in the Old Testament (what he calls Holy Scripture); and the gospel is “we have received grace from Christ for obedience of faith”. So grace is defined as the power to be obedient...a power that is Christ’s alone.


If you agree with this interpretation, “like”.

If you disagree with this interpretation, post an alternative for others to agree with.

If you’d like further elaboration of an interpretation, feel free to ask.
I will restate a few key posts and add a thought or two, to it. please Joint me and we will start our study again. Yahshua gave us a good beginning. The purpose of God's work in this world is to call out sinners which will be OBEDIENT to Him. Thesesinners have always been ones from the whole world. Please read Romans 1-2 to get a look at where the Apostle Paul is going. And study 1:1-6 in light of the first two chapters. Love to all, Hoffco
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
It is a very sad day for the Bible truth, when no one is able to see the literal meaning of the words spoken, when taken in full context of the whole Bible book and books, it all fits together into a beautiful whole picture of God and His truth to mankind. I will not move on in Romans, until I get several Christians who will believe these wonderful trues of Chapters 1-3. Love to all. Hofffco
 
W

weakness

Guest
Are you blocking every one disagreeing with you or is there just nobody interested in your disemination of youropinion about Romans?
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
To weakness, I am telling it as it is, the truth, according to a contextual method of study, letting the Word interpret itself. Comparing Scripture with Scripture. As I said I do not want anyone to flood this tread with garbage that is only meant to cover up the truth of God's word. I have asked certain persons to stay off because they twist the Bible to the destruction of souls. I do not know how to block but I will try to delete the long posts that are way off base. I want honest questions from those who want to learn the truth. I don't want anyone who fights my interpretation of the first 3 chapters. That eliminates most big time radio preachers I know. I want ONLY those who want to learn.
Love to all, Hoffco, Pastor Doug
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
I will restate a few key posts and add a thought or two, to it. please Joint me and we will start our study again. Yahshua gave us a good beginning. The purpose of God's work in this world is to call out sinners who will be OBEDIENT to Him. These sinners have always been ones from the whole world. Please read Romans 1-2 to get a look at where the Apostle Paul is going. And study 1:1-6 in light of the first two chapters. Love to all, Hoffco
I will make another attempt to get a few followers of the TRUTH, every just one.! Please read Yahshua's old post, as I quoted it in post 1304 and my comments. If you agree with my words, then state it and we will restart this study based upon the TRUTH of God's SOVEREIGN control of salvation of his elect ones. Paul is very clear that God's purpose is to make us holy before He forgives our sins in Justification; So Sanctification of the Spirit,God, comes before Justification from God. The saved Jews and Gentiles of Rom chaps 1:1-17 & in ch. 2:10-29 are in stark contrast to the lost Gentiles of ch.1:18-32 and the lost Jews of ch.2:1-29. If no one will acknowledge the true bases of salvation,which is the sanctifying work of the Spirit, Of the New birth of the Spirit in Rom. chs,1&2, I will not go on to Justification in Ch. 3. Love to all, Hoffco , Pastor Doug.
 
Mar 23, 2014
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Romans 2: [SUP]17 [/SUP]Behold, thou art called a Jew and rest in the law and make thy boast of God,

This is important, to whom is Paul writing? to the Romans? No He is writing to the Christian Jews who are now living in Rome.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
To ivancO, The immediate audience are"to all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called yo be saints;"1:7 "to Jews and Greeks" " "to all who believe"1:16 It is a book for all to read. The saved will delight in it and the lost can get saved by reading it. You will not understand Romans if you narrow its message to one group. It is a universal Gospel message to the whole world. The lost Jews and Gentiles are invited to read this book. Please, get serious about the content of the book. Learn what the first chapter is saying, then go on to ch.2 in light of ch.1. Rightly relate the context. tell me what it means to "be the called of Jesus Christ"1:6 ; To do that .you most study every verse in the whole N.T. where "called " is used. Love to all, Hoffco
 
Jan 19, 2013
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I will make another attempt to get a few followers of the TRUTH, every just one.! Please read Yahshua's old post, as I quoted it in post 1304 and my comments. If you agree with my words, then state it and we will restart this study based upon the TRUTH of God's SOVEREIGN control of salvation of his elect ones. Paul is very clear that God's purpose is to make us holy before He forgives our sins in Justification; So Sanctification of the Spirit,God, comes before Justification from God. The saved Jews and Gentiles of Rom chaps 1:1-17 & in ch. 2:10-29 are in stark contrast to the lost Gentiles of ch.1:18-32 and the lost Jews of ch.2:1-29. If no one will acknowledge the true bases of salvation,which is the sanctifying work of the Spirit, Of the New birth of the Spirit in Rom. chs,1&2, I will not go on to Justification in Ch. 3. Love to all, Hoffco , Pastor Doug.
psychomom said:
my brief recap of the first three chapters;

chap 1--everyone's bad

chap 2--everyone's bad

chap 3--ellie is bad...

take it from there.

ps-- good work, Elin!
love you!
It bears repeating. . .

Recap of 25 gospel principles from Ro 1:1-6:4:

1) Grace was given to Paul to (call, thereby bringing about in others) obedience of faith. (1:5)

2) The gospel is the power of God to salvation to everyone that believes, because
a
) salvation is the forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77), which saves from God's wrath (Ro 5:9)
at the final judgment,
b) it reveals a righteousness from God (Ro 1:17, 3:21), a free gift (5:17), that is through faith
by grace, not by obedience.

This righteousness = justification = declared guiltless, position of right standing before God.
The cause of justification (position of right standing) is faith only.
The result of justification (position) is actual sanctification, through the obedience of faith. (1:16-17).

3) God's wrath is shown by giving men over to their sin, by judging (punishing) sin
with increased sin. (1:18)

4) God judges
according to truth (2:2), for those who hold the truth in unrighteousness,
according to deeds (2:6-11), for those who possess the Mosaic law, and
according to the light one has (2:12-15), for Gentiles who do not possess the Mosaic law. (2:2-16)

5) Jews had the advantage of the word of God and the law, but they were not
the saving advantage of true faith. (3:1-2)

6) Though Israel was unfaithful to God, God is faithful to his promise to punish sin
and unbelief. (3:3-5)

7) God cannot be unjust in bringing his wrath on unbelief, even if unbelief benefits
God by bringing out his righteousness more clearly, for Scripture states that he is
the just judge of the world who can do no wrong
(Dt 32:4; 2Ch 19:7; Job 8:3, 34:10-11, 36:23; Ps 119:137; Eze 18:25; Da 4:37, 9:14).
If he were unjust, how could he be the just judge of the world? (3:6)

8) God has shut up all men in sin. (3:19)

9) God is both just in requiring penalty for sin, and the justifier in providing the payment
of the penalty. (3:26)

10) Righteousness through faith, apart from the law, has always been the teaching
of the OT (Ge 15:6). (3:28)

11) We do not "establish the law" by being made righteous according to it. That is anti-gospel.
We "establish the law" in the NT by establishing the right use of the law,
we don't overthrow the law, we establish its standing by setting it on the right basis;
i.e., although we cannot be saved by it as a covenant, we submit to it in Christ's two
commandments (Mt 22:37-39), which are subject to the law of grace. (3:31)

12) Salvation is the forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77),
which removes our guilt and God's wrath on it at the final judgment.
We are saved from the wrath of God at the final judgment, by forgiveness of our sin,
not by works of obedience.
(4:8)

13) Circumcision was not an action (work) required to confirm faith.
Circumcision was a sign only, given as a seal to guarantee one's righteousness by faith,
apart from works.
(4:11)

14) Those under the law cannot be heirs to the promise because
inheritance by law keeping makes faith worthless, and
law keeping effectively voids the promise, by disqualifying everyone and producing
only wrath. (4:14-15)

15) The promise can be guaranteed only if it is based on faith, because basing it on
law keeping can result only in wrath (Gal 3:10), it cannot result in fulfillment of the promise.

Righteousness by faith was guaranteed by the sign of circumcision (4:11), and the
promise is guaranteed by grace through faith
(4:16).

16) True saving faith is the conviction of belief, which obeys. (4:20)

17) Jesus rose from the dead as the firstfruits of the resurrection of all believers,
as proof that he was who he said he was, Christ the Redeemer, of his people
from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) by forgiveness of their sin (Lk 1:77),
through faith in him (Jn 3:16, 18, 36).

The resurrection shows that Jesus' sacrifice (death) was accepted as atonement for sin (Ro 3:25) and,
therefore, we have, indeed, been justified (declared guiltless, position of right standing before God)
by his atoning death.


Christ's blood was poured out (Lk 22:20) on the ground at the base of the cross (Jn 19:34, 36-37),
just as the animals' blood was poured out on the ground at the base of the altar
(Lev 4:7, 18, 25, 30, 34).

Christ was physically resurrected, not so he could take his physical blood into a physical sanctuary
to physically sprinkle it on physical things (no physical blood, it had been poured out on the ground).

The heavenly things (gospel graces for the redeemed) of Heb 9:23-24 were purified by his Spirit,
the Holy Spirit, when
his work was finished,
his Spirit departed at his death (Jn 19:30),
returned to God, and
established
the gospel graces of his atoning
death for the redeemed.

And those graces are now applied by him in his
living resurrected body, through his Spirit (Ro 8:27)
in the presence of God (Heb 9:24), where he ever lives to intercede for us (Ro 8:34; Heb 7:25).

Christ's death atoned for sin (Ro 3:25),
and his life now applies that atonement to the redeemed in justification
(position of right standing)
by faith alone.
(4:25)

18)
We are justified (position of right standing) by faith, apart from any other actions of obedience,
as was Abraham
(Ge 15:6). (5:1)

19) We are
saved. . .from the wrath of God at the final judgment, because we have been
justified (declared guiltless, position of right standing before God) through faith in Christ's
blood (Ro 3:25), which is his atoning death. (5:9)

20) Since God saved us from his wrath through justification (declared guiltless, position of
right standing before God) by Christ's atoning
death, he shall also save (sanctify, glorify) us
through Christ's resurrected
life, who ever lives to intercede for us (Heb 7:25; Ro 8:34). (5:10)

21) Although sin was not taken into account between Adam and Moses
when there was no Mosaic law to transgress,
yet all mankind died as the result of sin (Ro 6:23).
So for what sin were all men held guilty and subject to death, when sin was not taken into account?
They were all held guilty of Adam's sin. (5:12-17).

22) Just as the one act of trespass and disobedience of the first Adam made the many sinners
and resulted in their condemnation,
so the one act of obedience and righteousness of the second Adam made righteous and justified
(position of right standing, guiltless before God) the many.

Man was both made a sinner and made righteous, not because of what man did, but because of
what Adam and Christ did.

Man is born a sinner and unrighteous, because of Adam's sin "imputed" to him at natural birth (Ps 51:5).
Man is justified, made righteous (position of right standing, guiltless) because of Christ's righteousness
"imputed" to him at spiritual rebirth. (5:18-19)

23) Just as sin was increased by the law, so grace was increased by sin (5:20-21).

24) So in 5:12-21:

a) our own sin/sinfulness is not the ground for our condemnation,
it is our guilt of Adam's sin that condemns us (Ps 51:5),
the very nature with which we are born (sinful) condemns us (Eph 2:3); and

b) our own obedience/sanctification is not the ground for our justification (position of right
standing, guiltless),
it is the righteousness of Jesus Christ's obedience to death that
justifies us, through faith alone, which is the burden of Ro 4 and Ro 5. (5:12-21)

25) Baptism is the when and how of our death to sin.
When: in our union with Christ in baptism, which is a union in the benefits of his death.
How: by entering into the purpose of his death - to redeem us from sin,
- - - -by living according to the model of his death - who died for sin,
- - - -by being raised with Christ - to die to sin. (6:1-4)[/QUOTE]
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Romans 2: [SUP]17 [/SUP]Behold, thou art called a Jew and rest in the law and make thy boast of God,

This is important, to whom is Paul writing? to the Romans? No He is writing
to the Christian Jews who are now living in Rome.
Actually, Paul is writing to the church in Rome, and presenting the basic gospel--a righteousness
from God, not from good works, but a gift (Ro 5:17), which is God's plan of salvation and righteousness
for all mankind, Jew and Gentile alike (Ro 1:16-17).

He starts his presentation of the basic gospel in the first three chapters where he presents the unrighteousness of all mankind, Gentiles (1:18-32), Jews (2:1-3:8) and all people (3:9-20).

In Ro 2:17, he is beginning his presentation of the unrighteousness of all Jews, closing it with 3:9.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
Elin, and to all, to Elin, you have failed in your attempt to summary Rom chs.1-6. So I will give my first assignment to my class. What is the Gospel according to Paul in Romans 1:1-17? What is our introduction to the Gospel, and our response to the Gospel? What does Paul mean by "the called of Jesus Christ". v. 6? What does Paul mean by "called to be saints. v7? Is "called" used in the same way as "called" in Ro.8:29-30 and in 1Cor 1:9,24,26,. How is "called" related to "sanctified" in 1Cor.1:2 and 6:11?, and to "chosen" in 1Cor1;27? How is "called" related to the fact that the gospel is the "power of God" in Rom1:16? Do you see in Romans ch. one 1Pet.1:2-3? Is Romans ch. one teaching the powerful conversion of the sinner to Jesus? Does Romans one relate to 2Thess.2:13? Do you see that Romans one is the great doctrine of the Sanctification of the Spirit that makes us born again and able to live the holy Christian life? If not , leave my class. If so, then ,you are welcome to joint my class. Or if, you are WILLING to learn, then you may stay in my class. Elin, you are not the teacher, I am. submit, or leave. Love to all. Hoffco
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
I have left an assignment and no one is willing to do the home work and study the first doctrine introduced by Paul in this first 17 verses; The two main themes in Ch. 1:1-17 are the Gospel and the doctrine of the new birth. A good student of the Bible will know is that the New Birth is Sanctification Begun, the radical brake with sin. Therefore,
I will not proceed with our study and waste my time arguing with ignorant fools. Love to all, Hoffco, Ptr. Doug
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
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I have left an assignment and no one is willing to do the home work and study the first doctrine introduced by Paul in this first 17 verses; The two main themes in Ch. 1:1-17 are the Gospel and the doctrine of the new birth. A good student of the Bible will know is that the New Birth is Sanctification Begun, the radical brake with sin. Therefore,
I will not proceed with our study and waste my time arguing with ignorant fools. Love to all, Hoffco, Ptr. Doug
Love to all ignorant fools. . .thanks for including them.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
Are there any Christians on this site who will agree with Paul's words,(God'sWord)? Namely: That Romans 1:1-17 is teaching that it is God almighty that saves Us! Jesus, Who is God in the flesh,"declared to be the son of God with power"..."by the resurrection from the dead." 1:4 ,This Jesus ,by His "power" 1:16 "called" 1:1,6,7, us sinners out of our sin and into a life of "obedience to the faith"1:5. "called to be saints" 1:7 to be "The just shall live by faith." 1:17, to be holy persons who live out their "faith" and not only believe it. ? Does any one believe this great, basic truth of the Gospel? Does anyone believe we are saved "by grace" thru "faith" unto "good works". Eph.2:8-10? Love to all Hoffco
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
If one doesn't understand the first part of salvation, the conversion, new birth of/by God's power, in our spirit, as a part of sanctification, one can't make full senses of how God save us, according to the book of Roman and the whole Bible. So called, great men of God, like Luther, have missed this truth. and have twisted Romans. Even a great Bible teach as John MacArthur has perverted the themes, short changed us, of God's purpose/way of salvation in/of Romans by leaving our sanctification to only chps. 6-8,in His study Bible. Paul always lists Sanctification before Justification. Love to all Hoffco
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
If one doesn't understand the first part of salvation, the conversion, new birth of/by God's power, in our spirit, as a part of sanctification, one can't make full senses of how God save us, according to the book of Roman and the whole Bible. So called, great men of God, like Luther, have missed this truth. and have twisted Romans. Even a great Bible teach as John MacArthur has perverted the themes, short changed us, of God's purpose/way of salvation in/of Romans by leaving our sanctification to only chps. 6-8,in His study Bible. Paul always lists Sanctification before Justification. Love to all Hoffco

The problem is that those who speak on Romans, especially on these 3 chapters of 6-8 I have seen that a good majority of them teach it wrong. I don't know how many I have seen try and say the Apostle Paul walked the way he described in chapter 7 all the way up to his death.
Meaning they teach that Paul continued to be carnally minded all the way through his ministry, which is false teaching and contradictory to what he said in chapter 8 that we can not continue to walk carnally minded and have eternal life both.
 

Hepzibah

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2015
337
24
18
Hello Hoffco

I am willing to look at Romans with you.

Actually, Paul is writing to the church in Rome, and presenting the basic gospel--a righteousness
from God, not from good works, but a gift (Ro 5:17), which is God's plan of salvation and righteousness
for all mankind, Jew and Gentile alike (Ro 1:16-17).
Agreed.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
If one doesn't understand the first part of salvation, the conversion, new birth of/by God's power, in our spirit, as a part of sanctification, one can't make full senses of how God save us, according to the book of Roman and the whole Bible. So called, great men of God, like
Luther, have missed this truth. and have twisted Romans. Even a great Bible teach as
John MacArthur has perverted the themes, short changed us,
No flies on you. . .

of God's purpose/way of salvation in/of Romans by leaving our sanctification to only chps. 6-8,in His study Bible. Paul always lists Sanctification before Justification. Love to all Hoffco
Not agreed. . .

1) Grace was given to Paul to (call, thereby bringing about in others) obedience of faith. (1:5)

2) The gospel is the power of God to salvation to everyone that believes, because
a
) salvation is the forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77), which saves from God's wrath (Ro 5:9)
at the final judgment,
b) it reveals a righteousness from God (Ro 1:17, 3:21), a free gift (5:17), that is through faith
by grace, not by obedience.

This righteousness = justification = declared guiltless, position of right standing before God.
The cause of justification (position of right standing) is faith only.
The result of justification (position) is actual sanctification, through the obedience of faith. (1:16-17).

3) God's wrath is shown by giving men over to their sin, by judging (punishing) sin
with increased sin. (1:18)

4) God judges
according to truth (2:2), for those who hold the truth in unrighteousness,
according to deeds (2:6-11), for those who possess the Mosaic law, and
according to the light one has (2:12-15), for Gentiles who do not possess the Mosaic law. (2:2-16)

5) Jews had the advantage of the word of God and the law, but they were not
the saving advantage of true faith. (3:1-2)

6) Though Israel was unfaithful to God, God is faithful to his promise to punish sin
and unbelief. (3:3-5)

7) God cannot be unjust in bringing his wrath on unbelief, even if unbelief benefits
God by bringing out his righteousness more clearly, for Scripture states that he is
the just judge of the world who can do no wrong
(Dt 32:4; 2Ch 19:7; Job 8:3, 34:10-11, 36:23; Ps 119:137; Eze 18:25; Da 4:37, 9:14).
If he were unjust, how could he be the just judge of the world? (3:6)

8) God has shut up all men in sin. (3:19)

9) God is both just in requiring penalty for sin, and the justifier in providing the payment
of the penalty. (3:26)

10) Righteousness through faith, apart from the law, has always been the teaching
of the OT (Ge 15:6). (3:28)

11) We do not "establish the law" by being made righteous according to it. That is anti-gospel.
We "establish the law" in the NT by establishing the right use of the law,
we don't overthrow the law, we establish its standing by setting it on the right basis;
subject to the law of grace, i.e., although we cannot be saved by it as a covenant,
we submit to it in Christ's two commandments (Mt 22:37-39) as the means of sanctification. (3:31)