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These threads can get very emotional, and people take offense very quickly on this topic.
Proceed with caution.
Active Zionism is very strongly connected to certain doctrinal positions, and widely accepted as indisputable fact in the vast majority of American churches.
It is better to get to the doctrinal root, rather than debating the results (active Zionism, passive Zionism, neutrality, or anti-Zionism.)
Proceed with caution.
Active Zionism is very strongly connected to certain doctrinal positions, and widely accepted as indisputable fact in the vast majority of American churches.
It is better to get to the doctrinal root, rather than debating the results (active Zionism, passive Zionism, neutrality, or anti-Zionism.)
There is genuine racism in the world.
That is undeniable.
There is real racism.
However...
ALL people-groups have used the tactic of playing the "race card" against other people-groups, and accusing the others of racism (whether there is any or not) BECAUSE IT'S EFFECTIVE!
Playing the race card simply works.
It's dirty but effective.
It's a fast and dirty way to win any argument, and prop up any position.
Every people-group has done it.
Every people-group will continue to do it... because it works.
It's a dirty way to win any argument.
This tactic is unconscionable, but it works.
This tactic works, therefore this tactic is NEVER going away.
The "race card" will ALWAYS be a good tactic, because it's PERFECT.
It CANNOT be disproven.
You are accusing someone based on their MOTIVES... which are INVISIBLE.
Nothing you say about motives can be proven or disproven.
Accusing others of racism is the PERFECT, FLAWLESS ATTACK.
It can never be disproven.
It is evil... but it is perfection.
The "race card" will never go away.
It is the perfect attack by those who will do anything to win.
ALL PEOPLE GROUPS have used it.
It isn't a jewish thing, or a white thing, or a black thing... it's a sin thing.
Men are fallen, and they are sinners, and they will ALWAYS say terrible things to manipulate others.
All races do it.
That is undeniable.
There is real racism.
However...
ALL people-groups have used the tactic of playing the "race card" against other people-groups, and accusing the others of racism (whether there is any or not) BECAUSE IT'S EFFECTIVE!
Playing the race card simply works.
It's dirty but effective.
It's a fast and dirty way to win any argument, and prop up any position.
Every people-group has done it.
Every people-group will continue to do it... because it works.
It's a dirty way to win any argument.
This tactic is unconscionable, but it works.
This tactic works, therefore this tactic is NEVER going away.
The "race card" will ALWAYS be a good tactic, because it's PERFECT.
It CANNOT be disproven.
You are accusing someone based on their MOTIVES... which are INVISIBLE.
Nothing you say about motives can be proven or disproven.
Accusing others of racism is the PERFECT, FLAWLESS ATTACK.
It can never be disproven.
It is evil... but it is perfection.
The "race card" will never go away.
It is the perfect attack by those who will do anything to win.
ALL PEOPLE GROUPS have used it.
It isn't a jewish thing, or a white thing, or a black thing... it's a sin thing.
Men are fallen, and they are sinners, and they will ALWAYS say terrible things to manipulate others.
All races do it.
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Notes on my post above:
1. Racism CAN be proven, it just cannot be disproven.
It is the perfect slander for all occasions.
2. There are plenty of honest people, in all people-groups, who would never sink to these tactics.
3. Racism IS real. It just isn't as prevalent as all the accusations in the world would claim.
Alright, rant over.
: )
1. Racism CAN be proven, it just cannot be disproven.
It is the perfect slander for all occasions.
2. There are plenty of honest people, in all people-groups, who would never sink to these tactics.
3. Racism IS real. It just isn't as prevalent as all the accusations in the world would claim.
Alright, rant over.
: )
Look at the quote from the above poster from a thread just yesterday...
"It's self fulfillED prophecy,' like the whole existence of the nation state of Israel."
Criticizing governments actions are appropriate, and in in some sense a responsibility, but people like DIDYMOS like to mask their anti-semitism with this type of "hey jews are fine it's just Israel I despise" threads. This guy, like muslims, doesn't believe Israel even has a right to exist. Don't fall for it from him.
Criticizing governments actions are appropriate, and in in some sense a responsibility, but people like DIDYMOS like to mask their anti-semitism with this type of "hey jews are fine it's just Israel I despise" threads. This guy, like muslims, doesn't believe Israel even has a right to exist. Don't fall for it from him.
P
depends who your speaking to, personally i seperate zionism from judism, and i disagree with much of zionism, along with many other christians and jews (simple google search, ' see jews against zionism ',.) Does this mean there are zionist christians, what does zionism stand for, wiki says, ' supports the creation of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the Land of Israel. Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. So have christians always believed in zionism, (christian zionsim),
Christian support for the restoration of the Jews was brought to America by the Puritans who fled England. In colonial times, Increase Mather and John Cotton,among others, favored restoration of the Jews, but it was not until the early 19th century that the idea gathered impetus.
The dispensationalist theology of John Nelson Darby which motivates one stream of American Christian Zionism is often claimed to be the foundation of American Christian Zionism. He first distinguished the hopes of the Jews and that of the church and gentiles in his ground-breaking series of 11 evening lectures in Geneva in 1840..
do any christians disagree with this view...Presbyterian , anglican many methodist and all COVENANTAL THEOLOGY churches
The Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem (Catholic), the Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem, the Episcopal Church in Jerusalem and the Middle East and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land, have recently joined together in order to proclaim and to publish the Jerusalem Declaration on Christian Zionism (August 22, 2006). This Declaration rejects Christian Zionism for substituting a political-military program in place of the teachings of Jesus Christ.[SUP][42][/SUP] The statement is very critical of Christian Zionism because it views it as providing a worldview where the Gospel is identified with the ideology of empire, colonialism and militarism.
what does the bible say about the return of the jews to israel..Thats where the difficulty occurs, there are different interpretations depending what bias the person giving the view.
so as we know the words of Jesus said to love our enemies, pray for peace, so maybe the litmus test is, if there is any situation anywhere in the world and innocent people are dying, am i supporting a side or praying for peace..,
So back to the question, do people realise you can be supportive of judism and not supportive of zionism and this is often mistaken as anti semitism.. When in fact its nothing of the sort..
maybe the best solution to all is to read the bible, without any pre-concieved bias and come to your own conclusions, (hard i know)...
Christian support for the restoration of the Jews was brought to America by the Puritans who fled England. In colonial times, Increase Mather and John Cotton,among others, favored restoration of the Jews, but it was not until the early 19th century that the idea gathered impetus.
The dispensationalist theology of John Nelson Darby which motivates one stream of American Christian Zionism is often claimed to be the foundation of American Christian Zionism. He first distinguished the hopes of the Jews and that of the church and gentiles in his ground-breaking series of 11 evening lectures in Geneva in 1840..
do any christians disagree with this view...Presbyterian , anglican many methodist and all COVENANTAL THEOLOGY churches
The Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem (Catholic), the Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem, the Episcopal Church in Jerusalem and the Middle East and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land, have recently joined together in order to proclaim and to publish the Jerusalem Declaration on Christian Zionism (August 22, 2006). This Declaration rejects Christian Zionism for substituting a political-military program in place of the teachings of Jesus Christ.[SUP][42][/SUP] The statement is very critical of Christian Zionism because it views it as providing a worldview where the Gospel is identified with the ideology of empire, colonialism and militarism.
what does the bible say about the return of the jews to israel..Thats where the difficulty occurs, there are different interpretations depending what bias the person giving the view.
so as we know the words of Jesus said to love our enemies, pray for peace, so maybe the litmus test is, if there is any situation anywhere in the world and innocent people are dying, am i supporting a side or praying for peace..,
So back to the question, do people realise you can be supportive of judism and not supportive of zionism and this is often mistaken as anti semitism.. When in fact its nothing of the sort..
maybe the best solution to all is to read the bible, without any pre-concieved bias and come to your own conclusions, (hard i know)...
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But the doctrinal root is all based on matters of biblical hermeneutics... and orthodox denominations all have extremely different views on hermeneutics.
There won't be any consensus on hermeneutics in this forum.
There might however be a consensus about simple Christian principles... simple things upon which we DO NOT all disagree.
For example: Is disagreeing with someone inherently equivalent to racism?
I think that's pretty easy, and we could all agree. You MAY disagree because you're a racist, but disagreeing does not MAKE you a racist. Very simple, and no hermeneutic arguments required.
There won't be any consensus on hermeneutics in this forum.
There might however be a consensus about simple Christian principles... simple things upon which we DO NOT all disagree.
For example: Is disagreeing with someone inherently equivalent to racism?
I think that's pretty easy, and we could all agree. You MAY disagree because you're a racist, but disagreeing does not MAKE you a racist. Very simple, and no hermeneutic arguments required.
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The Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem (Catholic), the Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem, the Episcopal Church in Jerusalem and the Middle East and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land, have recently joined together in order to proclaim and to publish the Jerusalem Declaration on Christian Zionism (August 22, 2006).
Isn't that the meeting where at the end all those religious leaders shook hands with Arafat and had a photo shoot?
Non political...for sure.
Isn't that the meeting where at the end all those religious leaders shook hands with Arafat and had a photo shoot?
Non political...for sure.
P
oh so you dont like arafat and are you judging the salvation of those christians seen shaking hands with him, mmm, ok aint seen that one in the bible, leave that between you and god... i'm guessing (could be wrong) your not one of the ones praying for peace then..and that is in the bible..
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Very tricky issue to figure out.
Claims of antisemitism seems like a version of "the race card" in some situations.
Very few are criticized for being anti-Arab when they call for "turning them into glass" with nukes.
I've seen many calls for war against other people, and those calls are rarely labeled as anti"fill in the people group".
So this whole claim of anti"whatever" seems very inconsistent and very biased.
If you criticize Israel you can be called a racist, but if you call for the carpet bombing or "turning into glass" of any other group of people, then that's really not racist or whatever.
Remember for Christians it's not about focusing on one group in favor of another.
We have to view everything through the lens of Jesus who makes both groups one.
Ephesians 2
It doesn't follow the law of love to be anti-any people group, and it doesn't follow the law of love to play the race card when you really don't know the motives behind why people are saying what they say.
Claims of antisemitism seems like a version of "the race card" in some situations.
Very few are criticized for being anti-Arab when they call for "turning them into glass" with nukes.
I've seen many calls for war against other people, and those calls are rarely labeled as anti"fill in the people group".
So this whole claim of anti"whatever" seems very inconsistent and very biased.
If you criticize Israel you can be called a racist, but if you call for the carpet bombing or "turning into glass" of any other group of people, then that's really not racist or whatever.
Remember for Christians it's not about focusing on one group in favor of another.
We have to view everything through the lens of Jesus who makes both groups one.
Ephesians 2
It doesn't follow the law of love to be anti-any people group, and it doesn't follow the law of love to play the race card when you really don't know the motives behind why people are saying what they say.
Strange,can anyone really say the US has been blessed as a Nation since America started supporting Israel?
This is a list of what has happened to America since she started supporting Israel
Well, the fact is that America is the world's greatest benefactor and blesser of Israel. We bless the Jews in countless ways, and yet, consider the many curses that America is now suffering:
The Curse of the Illuminati? - Texe Marrs
(Never mind Korea,Vietnam etc etc etc)
This is a list of what has happened to America since she started supporting Israel
Well, the fact is that America is the world's greatest benefactor and blesser of Israel. We bless the Jews in countless ways, and yet, consider the many curses that America is now suffering:
- America is now suffering a staggering economic collapse; with banks and corporations failing, prices skyrocketing, real estate being dumped, jobs being lost, the whole bit. Our federal deficit and national debt are staggering.
- America is riddled with narcotics, meth, and other illegal drugs.
- America is saturated to the hilt with pornography and blasphemy against God.
- America’s political leaders consistently lie, cheat, fornicate, kill and otherwise disgrace our once, great country.
- The whole world thinks of the United States as a rogue, warmongering nation led at the top by a moron, George W. Bush.
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[TD="width: 100%"]Mainly to further the Israeli agenda, the United States is embroiled in two foreign wars, in Iraq and Afghanistan. As a result, flag-draped coffins of slain U.S. military personnel are regularly brought home by transport aircraft. Is this an example of how much God is blessing America for its support of Israel and the Jewish Zionist Agenda?[/TD]
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The United States is now engaged in two foreign wars simultaneously. Over 4,000 of our young people have been slain and tens of thousands maimed with limbs torn off by roadside bombs in far-off Iraq. Thousands more are casualties of the Afghanistan conflict, a war we are losing to the dreaded Taliban. And our crazy, bamboozled leaders, manipulated by the powerful Jewish lobby (ADL, AIPAC, AJC, etc.) are hankering to plunge headlong into yet a third war—against Iran. - America is suffering an illegal alien invasion. Some 20 to 40 million illegals are inside our nonexistent borders—no one really knows the real number, but it’s huge. Their care and welfare is costing us tens of billions per year, and the illegal aliens are taking millions of jobs away from unemployed and desperate American workers.
- Our Christian TV evangelists—men like Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, and Paul Crouch—push positive thinking, feel good theology, and a smorgasboard of other nonsense.
- Our nation’s warped children are showing sick effects of having imbibed too much "gangsta" rap and heavy metal rock music and watching too much sorcery and occult TV cartoons. Many youngsters are on Prozac, Ritalin, and other mind-altering drugs.
- Our nation’s teenagers and even many adults idolize and want to be just like their decadent idols—Madonna, Lindsay Lohan, Paris Hilton, Britney Spears and the rest of the Motley Crew of Hollywood. Oh yes, there’s also Whoopi Goldberg, Rosie O’Donnell, and similar cretans—all of whom are adored, admired, and paid fabulously for their vulgar, profane jokes, blasphemous conduct, etc.
- Crime waves roar not only in American cities, but in small town America. Rapes, murders, kids killing parents, parents killing kids, car jacking, the list goes on and on. Lock your doors, folks, the bad guys are now breaking down doors to rob suburban dwellers, too.
- The police in America are corrupt, abusive, and often incompetent. Call 911 in many locales and nothing happens. But get on someone’s blacklist and a black-uniformed, masked police Swat Team may just show up at your residence, ready to slay your pets, frighten your kids into tears, and take you and the Missus off to jail. Then, they discover, "Whoops, wrong house."[TABLE="width: 1%"]
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[TD="width: 100%"][TABLE="width: 97%"]
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[TD="width: 100%"]Black-uniformed, masked police are becoming commonplace in America. Big Brother’s apparatus is bearing down on law-abiding citizens more and more everyday. Is this because America is "blessing" Zionist Israel?[/TD]
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[/TABLE] - Virtually every merchant, every appliance repairman, every auto mechanic in America has become a shyster, ripping consumers off. Identity theft is commonplace.
- Bribes and pay-offs are now S.O.P. for city officials and politicians, from lowly city councilmen to the halls of Congress.
- America is rapidly becoming a Police State, as our liberty and constitutional rights are systematically stripped from us, and Big Brother’s high-tech spy apparatus bears down on citizens more each day.
- We have just handily elected as President a man, Barack Obama, who endorses both gay marriage and the horrors of partial-birth abortion.
The Curse of the Illuminati? - Texe Marrs
(Never mind Korea,Vietnam etc etc etc)