Anti-Semitism?

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Ukorin

Guest
#41
The reasoning and logic that people use to debate depends upon the premise that is used. Example: If an individual makes a decision that ends up being a bad one and others are effected, just how are you going to intellectually debate that? What premise are you going to utilize for your debate? Are you going to discredit the person who made the bad decision by showing how others were effected and use that as proof that the individual was unqualified to make the decision that was made? Perhaps that bad decision was a misjudgment based upon the dynamics of situations you are not aware and are not privy to. Wouldn't that make you unqualified to constructively examine the situation without all the facts and wouldn't you have to assume other facts into evidence (or fill the gaps) to come to a logical conclusion?

Wouldn't you also have to be prejudice and put a greater value on how others were effected including their emotional state to have the kind of premise you need to determine the degree of destructiveness of that bad decision and the quality and character of the life of the one who made it? The debater is easily susceptible to their own accusation of 'ad hominem' because of the contention that arises from their own premise for the debate. There is always a degree of prejudice interwoven in every debate and many are just too proud and arrogant to admit to it and therefore cancel out any wisdom and discretion that could be utilized in their conclusions. That is the definition of a certain type of fool.
I think I get your point.
Calling someone an ad hominem user is an ad hominem itself.
The conundrum of awareness and responsibility.
Good thoughts.
 
S

sassylady

Guest
#42
I would not want to be the one who criticized Israel or Jewish people. It does not go well with those who do.
 
P

prodigal

Guest
#44
I would not want to be the one who criticized Israel or Jewish people. It does not go well with those who do.
god criticised em quite a bit, Jesus too,
 
Jun 18, 2014
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#45
Is criticism of 'Israel' by definition anti-semitism?
Your thoughts please.
No, it is simply criticism, and in my opinion it is better to direct criticism to particular members of a party rather than the whole party itself. Criticism of suicide bombers is not necessarily criticism of Islam, since most Muslims are not suicide bombers, but we tend to lump people together when it comes to things like this.

I, for instance, criticize those Israelis who drop shells indiscriminately on civilian buildings. That is not criticism of 'Israel' per se, but it is criticism of the actions of some Israelis. Though, I would criticize any human if they acted in such a way, nomatter what nationality or religion.

Anti-semitism is prejudice against Jews. Not all Israelis are Jews, and not all Jews are Israelis. If I am anti-semetic, I am by definition 'prejudiced against Jewish people'. But nobody can call me prejudiced for criticizing Israelis indiscriminately killing innocents when I would critize any person for killing innocents, thus I am fair and consistent in my criticism, not prejudiced.
 
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Dec 26, 2012
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#46
No, it is simply criticism, and in my opinion it is better to direct criticism to particular members of a party rather than the whole party itself. Criticism of suicide bombers is not necessarily criticism of Islam, since most Muslims are not suicide bombers, but we tend to lump people together when it comes to things like this.

I, for instance, criticize those Israelis who drop shells indiscriminately on civilian buildings. That is not criticism of 'Israel' per se, but it is criticism of the actions of some Israelis. Though, I would criticize any human if they acted in such a way, nomatter what nationality or religion.

Anti-semitism is prejudice against Jews. Not all Israelis are Jews, and not all Jews are Israelis. If I am anti-semetic, I am by definition 'prejudiced against Jewish people'. But nobody can call me prejudiced for criticizing Israelis indiscriminately killing innocents when I would critize any person for killing innocents, thus I am fair and consistent in my criticism, not prejudiced.
But by definition Arabs are also semitic.

Semite Merriam Webster


[h=2]Sem·ite[/h] noun \ˈse-ˌmīt, especially British ˈsē-ˌmīt\: a member of a group of people originally of southwestern Asia that includes Jews and Arabs










[h=2]Full Definition of SEMITE[/h]1
a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs
b : a descendant of these peoples

2
: a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language




 
Jun 18, 2014
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#47
But by definition Arabs are also semitic.

Semite Merriam Webster


Sem·ite

noun \ˈse-ˌmīt, especially British ˈsē-ˌmīt\: a member of a group of people originally of southwestern Asia that includes Jews and Arabs










Full Definition of SEMITE

1
a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs
b : a descendant of these peoples

2
: a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language




Yes, they are, and yet the dictionary defines anti-semitism as being prejudiced against Jews, which I think shows a kind of bias in itself.

anti-Semitism
antiˈsɛmətɪzəm/
noun
noun: anti-Semitism; noun: antisemitism

  • hostility to or prejudice against Jews

 
Dec 26, 2012
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#48
Yes, they are, and yet the dictionary defines anti-semitism as being prejudiced against Jews, which I think shows a kind of bias in itself.

anti-Semitism
antiˈsɛmətɪzəm/
noun
noun: anti-Semitism; noun: antisemitism

  • hostility to or prejudice against Jews

I think the biggest problem is that most can not get a handle on is that one can be against Zionism and yet not be anti-Jewish. How can they explain how to deal with anti-Zionist Jews? Are they anti-semites because they are against Zionism?
Isn't that an oxymoron?
:confused:
 
F

Fishbait

Guest
#49
this wont be any good for the christian zionists that believe israel can do no wrong but if any want a fair unbias view of the whole situation i found this quite good, 9 questions about the Israel-Palestine conflict you were too embarrassed to ask - Vox
Israel has done many things wrong. They've been doing wrong for years. God knows that. And Israel will be corrected by God.

"In those days and at that time, When I (God) bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather ALL nations, And bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; And I will enter into judgment with them there On account of My people, My heritage Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; They have also DIVIDED up My Land."

The only 'question' that needs to be asked is what side will we be on when God enters into judgment with Israel. His 'judgement' will be swift and woe to anyone that is against Israel at that time. When God's judgement is made it may be too late to change our views and opinions about Israel who are God's chosen people. God makes it very clear (to all that can hear) that His fury will come about in the city of Jerusalem, in the land of Israel:

“And in that day I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.” Zechariah 12:9
 
L

Linda70

Guest
#50
Antisemitism in Australia:

[video=youtube;e8GkE1EY_QA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8GkE1EY_QA[/video]
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#51
No, numbers are objective, while the list was subjective.
It was not dishonest.

Examples are selective by nature. If you have an issue with the ethics of such lists, then you have an issue with the ethics of using examples entirely.

The truth is that you simply wanted the poster to be wrong, and made up a reason for them to be wrong. You wanted their post to be dishonest, and labeled it as such.
It is human nature. Now you're mad because I called you out on it. I would be too. It's human nature.

Just so you know, post 28 was simply providing extra evidence for my 3rd point in post 27,
not making a new point.
You are making little sense, especially in your attempt to judge motives.
You say 'the truth is that you simply wanted the poster to be wrong, and made up a reason for them to be wrong.'
Perhaps you are projecting your way of thinking onto Rachel?

Then you judge her emotions by saying, "Now you're mad because I called you out on it."
Another assumption and a seeming cheap attempt to shut down the conversation. Then you admit you would react the same...which is only added confirmation that you are projecting your thinking onto others.
Just lay out your case without psychoanalyzing others...now that you know how it feels.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#52
I think the biggest problem is that most can not get a handle on is that one can be against Zionism and yet not be anti-Jewish. How can they explain how to deal with anti-Zionist Jews? Are they anti-semites because they are against Zionism?
Isn't that an oxymoron?
:confused:
I think an even bigger problem is for how one be a christian anti-Zionist and still hold to the Scriptures which is replete of prophecies foretelling the Jews dispersion to the four corners of the earth, to be horribly treated and then regathered back in their land in the last days..hmm, hmm.?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#53
Antisemitism in Australia:

[video=youtube;e8GkE1EY_QA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8GkE1EY_QA[/video]
Prodigal, SarahM, Ukorin, Esanta...please answer this man's questions and points especially about Islam's atrocities elsewhere in the world, while the world is silent in comparison to their vitriol against Israel for defending herself.
I suspect silence here also.
 
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Linda70

Guest
#54
Prodigal, SarahM, Ukorin, Esanta...please answer this man's questions and points especially about Islam's atrocities elsewhere in the world, while the world is silent in comparison to their vitriol against Israel for defending herself.
I suspect silence here also.
You can also add Isaiah_TheVoiceInTheDesert, Drett, and didymos to that list...but don't hold your breath for a response anytime soon.
 
Jun 18, 2014
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#55
Prodigal, SarahM, Ukorin, Esanta...please answer this man's questions and points especially about Islam's atrocities elsewhere in the world, while the world is silent in comparison to their vitriol against Israel for defending herself.
I suspect silence here also.
They ignore Israel's ceasefire pleas because they do not work to Palestine's benefit. These people want something that means more their own lives; clean water for their children, ample food, electricity, nationality, livelihood, economy, military, safety, the land they're rightfully owed and a future, and you could never understand that because you've lived your whole life with freedom.
 
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Linda70

Guest
#56
They ignore Israel's ceasefire pleas because they do not work to Palestine's benefit. These people want something that means more their own lives; clean water for their children, ample food, electricity, nationality, livelihood, economy, military, safety, the land they're rightfully owed and a future, and you could never understand that because you've lived your whole life with freedom.
There's no freedom in Islam. This conflict won't end (in the minds and actions of Hamas) until every last Jew is annihilated and Israel is destroyed. They have no regard for human rights...they are murderers and cowards who use their own civilians as human shields.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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#57
Prodigal, SarahM, Ukorin, Esanta...please answer this man's questions and points especially about Islam's atrocities elsewhere in the world, while the world is silent in comparison to their vitriol against Israel for defending herself.
I suspect silence here also.
Big difference between them. No Christian claims that Islam is doing these things in the name of God,BUT yet they will IGNORE what Israel does in the name of God.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#58
I'm just wondering why this discussion is in the Bible forum? Other than a few people like prodigal and fish bait, this discussion is not about the Bible, but rather, politics, history, geography and mostly opinions.

Perhaps we can make this into a Bible discussion by posting Scriptures, or move the thread to another forum, where all this politicking would be appropriate.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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#59
I think an even bigger problem is for how one be a christian anti-Zionist and still hold to the Scriptures which is replete of prophecies foretelling the Jews dispersion to the four corners of the earth, to be horribly treated and then regathered back in their land in the last days..hmm, hmm.?
Where did Jesus or the apostles tie in Christ's return with Israel being back in the land? Not once in the New Testament is it recorded that they ever said that. It's NOT there.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#60
conveniently omitted from the list were some of the following events that also happened within the same time frame...

american surgeons perform the first successful kidney transplant...
american engineers build the first nuclear power plant...
american engineers invent the first personal computer...
american doctors develop synthetic penicillins...
american doctors invent the first polio vaccine...
the united states lands people on the moon...
the civil rights movement leads to the abolishment of legal segregation in the united states...
american scientists invent nuclear MRI...
american surgeons perform the first successful heart-lung transplant...
the cold war ends in the united states' favor...
american engineers develop the internet...
american companies dominate the airline industry for decades...

and there are lots more of these blessings...

now for the record i don't believe God is either blessing or cursing the united states based on our policy towards israel...i merely want to point out the dishonesty of the author's extremely selective use of history...
Yea not doubt and I agree!