Baptism symbol only ?

[IAm3rd]

There are approx. 2.18 BILLION people who claim to be Christian in this world, and at least 75% of them believe, as the Church has always believed... ie, that baptism is not an option. Im simply trying to see what basis the small number of christians in the world who hold to this new doctrin have for believing it... thats all

 

[p_rehbein]

There are approx. 2.18 BILLION people who claim to be Christian in this world, and at least 75% of them believe, as the Church has always believed... ie, that baptism is not an option. Im simply trying to see what basis the small number of christians in the world who hold to this new doctrin have for believing it... thats all

So, even though you don't want opinion, and don't seem to understand Scripture quoted to you........let us go at it this way:

Water baptism IS NOT essential for SALVATION! PERIOD! I don't care how many people in the world have been deceived into believing this.............Water baptism IS IMPORTANT! Why? Because Jesus said for us to be baptized........Why would Jesus say that? Because water baptism achieves the following;

1) Serves as a witness to the Church that a person has accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour
2) Serves as a witness to the World that a person has accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour

This is what water baptism accomplishes. It is, or should be, the first act of obedience in a born again believers life walk with Jesus Christ. Water baptism DOES NOT cleans anyone of their sin filled hearts and lives. ONLY the precious blood of Jesus Christ can do that............ONLY HIS BLOOD!

There are numerous Scriptures to show this............and a few to support the other side of the debate...........search for them yourself....................and in my opinion, you are just playing games with the tired old argument of water baptism.....

 

[p_rehbein]

Lol... im not fishing. Im asking an honest question. The scripture you posted has no relevance... or perhaps you would like to elaborate on them ? But if I were you, I'd quit wasting my time

Your lack of understanding does not equate to the Scriptures being relevant or not.............as for the last part......

OR WHAT?

 

[sacraig67]

We are saved by grace through faith in Christ according to scripture. Basically the point being no where in the Bible does it say we must be baptized to be saved. Now I am no scholar or know it all but this is what the Bible says as far as I know.

 

[p_rehbein]

The Precious Blood of Jesus

1. Leviticus 17:11, 14 (cp. Deuteronomy 12:23) “For the life of the flesh
is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an
atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement
for the soul…. For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life
thereof …”
2. Hebrews 9:22 “Without the shedding of blood, there is
no remission of sins.”
3. 1 John 1:7″… the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth
us from all sin.”
5. Exodus 12:13 “… and when I see the blood, I will pass over
you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you,
when I smite the land of Egypt.”
6. Revelation 12:11 “And they overcame him (Satan) by the blood
of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony …”
7. Hebrews 9:14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who
through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,
purge your conscience …
8. Hebrews 10:19, 22 “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter
into the holiest by the blood of Jesus … Let us draw near with a true
heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an
evil conscience …”
9. Hebrews 13:12 “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify
the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.”
10. Romans 3:24-25 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”
11. Romans 5:9 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”

 

[RedTent]

Lol... im not fishing. Im asking an honest question. The scripture you posted has no relevance... or perhaps you would like to elaborate on them ? But if I were you, I'd quit wasting my time

Oh, I see better now.

I don't think there is any scripture that specifically speaking of baptism in the way you want, but I think a lot of scripture answers your question. However, it is my "opinion" that it does. The theme of the book of Isaiah is about using legalistic obedience as true obedience. For instance, sacrificial ceremony used blood as a symbol of Christ. When this same ceremony was done using blood to satisfy the appetite of God, scripture says God hated it. It is my opinion that this would also relate to using the symbol of baptism.

Scripture does the same with circumcision. Based on the same principle, Paul was against, even, circumcision of the flesh but said circumcision of the heart was necessary. It is my opinion that this is explaining a principle of God.

 

[p_rehbein]

Matthew 3:16) And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 .) And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased..............[WITNESS]


Mark 1:4) John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5 .) And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins…….. 7) And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose. 8 .) I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. 9 .) And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. 10 .) And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: 11 .) And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.[WITNESS]

Luke 3:16) John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:…….21) Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
22 .) And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.[WITNESS]

Acts 1:4) And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 .) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence……22) Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

10:34) Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 .) But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 .) The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
37 .) That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;………..44) While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 .) And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 .) For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

 

[p_rehbein]

, 11:13) And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 .) Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 .) And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 .) Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

13:22) And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
23 .) Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
24 .) When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.



25 .) This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
26 .) And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
19:1) And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 .) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 .) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 .) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 .) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 .) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

3. 1 John 1:7″… the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth
us from all sin.”

1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 1:13) Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14 .) I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 .) Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 .) And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
17 .) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect

 

[p_rehbein]

18 .) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
10:1) Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 .) And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
12:13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.


Galatians 3:23) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 .) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 .) But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 .) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 .) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 .) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 .) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Ephesians 4:3) Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 .) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 .) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 .) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 .) But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

Titus 3:5) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 .) Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 .) That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1[SUP]st[/SUP] John 5:6) This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 .) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 .) And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
9 .) If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
10 .) He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 .) And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 .) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Revelation 7:14) And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 

[Simona25]

We are saved by grace through faith in Christ according to scripture. Basically the point being no where in the Bible does it say we must be baptized to be saved. Now I am no scholar or know it all but this is what the Bible says as far as I know.

That's right. Don't do absolutely nothing to express your faith, don't make any movement towards God, just look in the mirror and repeat every morning that you are saved by grace through faith in Christ.

 

[sacraig67]

Um did I say do not do anything? Nope I didnt! I said that is how we are saved. Faith thru works is nothing so yes we still have a job to do but we sure as heck cannot save ourselves. If you can show me anywhere in the Bible where it says we have to work to be saved I'll bite my elbow. Was Jesus dying on the cross not enough?

 

[sacraig67]

Sorry I meant faith without works my bad lol

 

[Simona25]

Um did I say do not do anything? Nope I didnt! I said that is how we are saved. Faith thru works is nothing so yes we still have a job to do but we sure as heck cannot save ourselves. If you can show me anywhere in the Bible where it says we have to work to be saved I'll bite my elbow. Was Jesus dying on the cross not enough?

Did Christ say in John 3:5 that you must be born from water and Spirit in order to enter the kingdom of God, yes or no? What did Saint Paul say to Galatians?

Galatians 3:27 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ.

I know too well the refrain "saved by grace through faith in Christ". I did not say it is not truth, but you, wolves dressed like sheeps, reduce the meaning of it and make it say that you no longer need to get baptized, you no longer need to partake the Holy Communion (maybe once a year, only symbolically, of course); you gave up all the Holy Mysteries through which we can partake with God's grace and replaced it with a religion of autosuggestion.

 

[sacraig67]

I need to proofread better lol I am sorry

 

[Simona25]

Why would someone willingly deprive himself of Christ and replace Him with ideas and theologies, it is a mystery for me. Genuine faith means that you get baptized because you believe with all your heart that what St. Paul says in Galatians 3:27 is true.
Maybe that's why the prostitutes and the murderers will enter easier in the kingdom of God. Because once they repent they are more humble and more willing to do what's right and don't start to debate the Bible and become "technocrats" of christianity.

 

[sacraig67]

OK so think about this...the person who receives Christ on their deathbed but was never baptized or had communion? Are they saved?

 

[IAm3rd]

So, even though you don't want opinion, and don't seem to understand Scripture quoted to you........let us go at it this way:

Water baptism IS NOT essential for SALVATION! PERIOD! I don't care how many people in the world have been deceived into believing this.............Water baptism IS IMPORTANT! Why? Because Jesus said for us to be baptized........Why would Jesus say that? Because water baptism achieves the following;

1) Serves as a witness to the Church that a person has accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour
2) Serves as a witness to the World that a person has accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour

This is what water baptism accomplishes. It is, or should be, the first act of obedience in a born again believers life walk with Jesus Christ. Water baptism DOES NOT cleans anyone of their sin filled hearts and lives. ONLY the precious blood of Jesus Christ can do that............ONLY HIS BLOOD!

There are numerous Scriptures to show this............and a few to support the other side of the debate...........search for them yourself....................and in my opinion, you are just playing games with the tired old argument of water baptism.....

Still looking for that scripture...

 

[IAm3rd]

We are saved by grace through faith in Christ according to scripture. Basically the point being no where in the Bible does it say we must be baptized to be saved. Now I am no scholar or know it all but this is what the Bible says as far as I know.

Mark 16:16 He that believes and is baptized will be saved...

 

[IAm3rd]

Your lack of understanding does not equate to the Scriptures being relevant or not.............as for the last part......

OR WHAT?

or... you'll be wasting your time ? You are the one saying this was a waste of time... good grief, you need to relax.

 

[IAm3rd]

The Precious Blood of Jesus

1. Leviticus 17:11, 14 (cp. Deuteronomy 12:23) “For the life of the flesh
is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an
atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement
for the soul…. For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life
thereof …”
2. Hebrews 9:22 “Without the shedding of blood, there is
no remission of sins.”
3. 1 John 1:7″… the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth
us from all sin.”
5. Exodus 12:13 “… and when I see the blood, I will pass over
you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you,
when I smite the land of Egypt.”
6. Revelation 12:11 “And they overcame him (Satan) by the blood
of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony …”
7. Hebrews 9:14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who
through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,
purge your conscience …
8. Hebrews 10:19, 22 “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter
into the holiest by the blood of Jesus … Let us draw near with a true
heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an
evil conscience …”
9. Hebrews 13:12 “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify
the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.”
10.Romans 3:24-25“Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”
11.Romans 5:9“Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”

Which one is supposed to say we dont need to get baptized ?