A Positive Eschatology (Post Mill) vs. 2 Timothy 3 - Will Things Get Worse?

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1still_waters

Guest
#1
#1
More food for thought.

Post-millennialism teaches a "positive" eschatology, as opposed to other perspectives that are more "negative". Post-mills say things will actually get better before Jesus' return.

This video explains a positive eschatology in light of 2 Timothy 3 which makes it look like things will get worse before the return of Jesus.

[video=youtube;IsDRYoV2IT4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsDRYoV2IT4[/video]


Does 2nd Timothy 3 Teach things are getting worse? | Edified | Gary DeMar - YouTube
 
ChosenbyHim

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
#2
Sep 19, 2011
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#2
1still_waters said:
More food for thought.

Post-millennialism teaches a "positive" eschatology, as opposed to other perspectives that are more "negative". Post-mills say things will actually get better before Jesus' return.

This video explains a positive eschatology in light of 2 Timothy 3 which makes it look like things will get worse before the return of Jesus.


Does 2nd Timothy 3 Teach things are getting worse? | Edified | Gary DeMar - YouTube
Click to expand...
Does 2 Timothy 3 teach that things will get worse? Absolutely. It sure does teach that. The King James Bible and true science agree. The Law of Thermodynamics clearly shows that things left to its natural state will only get worse over a period of time.

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. - 2 Timothy 3:13 (Holy Bible)

It is also important to note that every dispensation ends in apostasy.

[video=youtube;0wwgaMmtXV4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wwgaMmtXV4[/video]
 
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1still_waters

Guest
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#3
Did you even watch the video?
 
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1still_waters

Guest
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#4
The Law of Thermodynamics clearly shows that things left to its natural state will only get worse over a period of time.
Click to expand...
Well we're not left in our natural state.
Read Acts 2.
Actually read the entire New Testament.
 
K

Kefa52

Guest
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#5
This is powerful stuff. I have not been spiritualy discerned with Eschatology until reciently. On the surface it looks like the world is learning but the deciever is hard at work. There is a deep erosion taking place that is behind all that looks good to the world, and many so called Christians.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
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#6
More please. I considered clicking the reputation button... but that would sorta be overkill at this point.
 
Bookends

Bookends

Senior Member
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Aug 28, 2012
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Are you a Post-Mill guy Still?

While I agree with Dr. Gary DeMar in that we need to be careful not to interpret the bible with a 21st mind set point of view, I don't see the scriptures that support a 1000 yrs of Good times, or Christendom which are still yet to come, except the eternal state. Instead I see a continuation of bondage and decay right up to the 2nd coming of Christ. Church growth always seemed to have it's most increase during times of heavy persecution. All the parables of Jesus in Matthew 13 seem to support my view of this...

Have any comments or scripture to support this post-mill. view?
 
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1still_waters

Guest
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#8
Bookends said:
Are you a Post-Mill guy Still?

While I agree with Dr. Gary DeMar in that we need to be careful not to interpret the bible with a 21st mind set point of view, I don't the scriptures that support a 1000 yrs of Good times, or Christendom which are still yet to come, except the eternal state. Instead I see a continuation of bondage and decay right up to the 2nd coming of Christ. Church growth always seemed to have it's most increase during times of heavy persecution. All the parables of Jesus in Matthew 13 seem to support my view of this...

Have any comments or scripture to support this post-mill. view?
Click to expand...
I am amill for now. But I'm kickin the tires of post mill. I'm hearing their case out. For now I have a supposed "pessimistic" view regarding the end
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#9
#9
Bookends said:
Are you a Post-Mill guy Still?

While I agree with Dr. Gary DeMar in that we need to be careful not to interpret the bible with a 21st mind set point of view, I don't see the scriptures that support a 1000 yrs of Good times, or Christendom which are still yet to come, except the eternal state. Instead I see a continuation of bondage and decay right up to the 2nd coming of Christ. Church growth always seemed to have it's most increase during times of heavy persecution. All the parables of Jesus in Matthew 13 seem to support my view of this...

Have any comments or scripture to support this post-mill. view?
Click to expand...
The post mill view believes creation will be decayed still, but culture itself will become mostly Christian before Jesus comes back.
 
JGPS

JGPS

Banned
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Jan 11, 2013
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I love post-millenial eschatology, though I'm not as partial to what appears to be some preterism in his reasoning. 'These last days' in Hebrews is qualified by 'these' while in Timothy it is simply the last days. I don't believe you can use the Hebrews reference to prove that Paul was talking specifically about his own time in the letter to Timothy.

The post-millenialism I know handles 2 Timothy 3 like this; people become corrupt to a point they are able to see their need for salvation, then the ministering of the word will bring people to God in droves. People become corrupt then they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. The corruption of false teachers shows their folly to the public, then those that live lives of purpose, faith, long-suffering, and patience will be heard out, and people will be saved en mass.

The theme of those two chapters is plain, people will do evil, what do we do? Preach the Word, lead people to salvation. I think that fits into post-millennial weather its preached to Pauls day or ours.
 
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Rock022

Banned
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Dec 5, 2012
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Here is a catholic view of the millennium if there may be a person interested.

[video=youtube;TeRs8jHTlVA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeRs8jHTlVA&feature=player_embedded[/video]
 
Bookends

Bookends

Senior Member
#12
Aug 28, 2012
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1still_waters said:
The post mill view believes creation will be decayed still, but culture itself will become mostly Christian before Jesus comes back.
Click to expand...
ok, please come back and tell me what they use to support a revised culture of Christendom.
 
Bookends

Bookends

Senior Member
#13
Aug 28, 2012
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1still_waters said:
I am amill for now. But I'm kickin the tires of post mill. I'm hearing their case out. For now I have a supposed "pessimistic" view regarding the end
Click to expand...
I thought you had a preterist view...Don't most or all Amills hold to a futurist view of Revelations?

I'm currently partial-preterist/Amill combined lol.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#14
#14
Bookends said:
I thought you had a preterist view...Don't most or all Amills hold to a futurist view of Revelations?

I'm currently partial-preterist/Amill combined lol.
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im a pret who has an amill view of the millennium.

Some post mills say I'm a post mill, but I'm not as optimistic as they are.
 
Bookends

Bookends

Senior Member
#15
Aug 28, 2012
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Rock022 said:
Here is a catholic view of the millennium if there may be a person interested.
Click to expand...
I'll tell you one thing Rock, I don't believe the Catholic Church is the Babylonian harlot found in Revelations as some Christians do...:cool:
 
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1still_waters

Guest
#16
#16
Rock022 said:
Here is a catholic view of the millennium if there may be a person interested.

[video=youtube;TeRs8jHTlVA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeRs8jHTlVA&feature=player_embedded[/video]
Click to expand...
I like that he says the Catholic church doesn't have a dogmatic stand on Revelation. This is something many of us non-Catholics forget. For many years (maybe still) the RC was a VERY big tent church, with many diverse opinions within it. Although the reformation tossed out a TON of garbage from the RC, we may also have tossed out a LOT of legit scholarship, interpretations and the like.
 
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Rock022

Banned
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Dec 5, 2012
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1still_waters said:
I like that he says the Catholic church doesn't have a dogmatic stand on Revelation. This is something many of us non-Catholics forget. For many years (maybe still) the RC was a VERY big tent church, with many diverse opinions within it. Although the reformation tossed out a TON of garbage from the RC, we may also have tossed out a LOT of legit scholarship, interpretations and the like.
Click to expand...
I am can never know which ton you refer to because the ones that I have talked to here all claim they have the truth but none of them agree with each other.

Wasn't Luther a catholic monk, who read a catholic book were he learned the catholic doctrine of grace and believed that's all you need? He was very catholic wasn't he.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#18
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#18
Rock022 said:
I am can never know which ton you refer to because the ones that I have talked to here all claim they have the truth but none of them agree with each other.

Wasn't Luther a catholic monk, who read a catholic book were he learned the catholic doctrine of grace and believed that's all you need? He was very catholic wasn't he.
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uh....no.
that's why a little thing called the Reformation happened.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#19
#19
I did not get what the guy was saying in whole. Not Inspired?? But I agree with a few things.

1. The Gospel is not where we stop, we need the whole counsel of God (not many churches like to do this)
2. It is the world view which causes those things to happen. the more the culture trusts the world. the more immoral it will be, the more faith and knowledge we do need.
3. The true believer will not fall away. he can't.

As far as eschatology goes. I did not hear to much in there about this.. to even know what the guy believes. I agree with his rapture thinking. It is these days we need to worry about spreading the gospel, bbecause more people need it. not worried about some rapture.
 
Bookends

Bookends

Senior Member
#20
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
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#20
Just to entertain the idea.... Perhaps this verse in psalms supports Post-mill.

Psalm 86:9
[SUP]9 [/SUP]All nations whom You have made
Shall come and worship before You, O Lord,
And shall glorify Your name.

Question is this, is this referring to the days of King Solomon, when Israel had peace all around her.
 
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