About PAstors

Mitspa · Nov 20, 2015

For my part...I would not make a charge against any "pastor" unless I had real evidence and conviction to do so...what I do say is that the religious structure that we see in the modern Protestant "churches" (which I consider the true people of God) needs real biblical reform. So its not personal for me and I believe many sincere ministers have accepted a religious structure and submitted to a tradition of men, out of a false idea of humility that actually works against true humility. Having said that, No one is going to reform anything unless God gives them the power to demonstrate the reforms they want are indeed from God. Paul ..when it come down to any correction in the church and when anyone challenged his standing in Christ, came down to the fact that God had place a rod of power in his hand...I don't believe reform is found in words that mans wisdom teaches, but in the power of the Holy Spirit. So when you see some reformers being raised up in power... Judge it in honesty and if its clear its from God? repent!

iwant2serve · Nov 20, 2015

Still again the negative comes out then attempted to be hidden behind some good. Why can't people just talk about the good things their church ministers do? I don't believe any of us have agreed with everything our leaders have said and done but does that overshadow how they have been a blessing?
As for TV ministers I have said over and over again, what are you doing to get the true message that your Pastors are preaching to the public? Are you promoting the website with the messages they preach, recording then and putting them on social media? Until we start doing something with what we call the truth against false teachings nothing is being done at all spreading it here in a Christian site.

Mitspa · Nov 20, 2015

iwant2serve said:

That's what Gods Word does...its judges the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Anyone who claims to have authority from the scriptures but reject that they should be held to the biblical standards of the scriptures are just in a form of religious pride in my view. The catholic church has tried to establish a religious class above the test of scriptures for hundreds of years now...and used the same arguments that many make in the protestant groups, for why they cannot be tested by the standard of truth that they preach to others.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Nov 20, 2015

In Yet's defense, I hope that we all would agree that the pastor-as-king model of ministry, and the abuse of power that tends to happen when authority is centralized in one person is detrimental to the body of Christ. I think that forms the basis of his message.

NarrowRoadDisciple · Nov 20, 2015

Hmm
For those called to be called to serve in ministry, it's both a great honor and responsibility to serve God and to serve the laity.
This is why the bible say there is a higher line of judgment for those who would be teachers because they have a responsibility to serve the flock God has entrusted them to oversee and not lead them astray. The higher line of judgment comes into play when pastors and elders lead their flock into false doctrine and heresies.
We can look at 2 Peter 2 as the ultimate end result for those overcome by the pastors/teachers that lead the sheep into heresy and error.

Should we outright condemn pastors? Should we just be quiet and say nothing?
I think that the bible is pretty clear when it comes to being under a false teacher in that God tells us that we can be put BACK into bondage by allowing the pastor/teacher to be spots and blemishes in our love feasts.
However, I do think that the false teachings should be pointed out to the pastor and elders via scripture. If they do not change their stance in line with the word of God, it's probably a good time to find a new pastor and local church.

Now when it comes to prominent pastors that people like to "bash," is calling them a false teacher or a false prophet in some cases considered bashing? Or is it a loving warning to those in the church to avoid these men who can bring them into bondage? If what we warn is based in love because we do not want spiritual harm to come over those that profess to be Christians, then I really don't see it as bashing. IF the speaking against these individuals is not warranted or not based on error in teaching then yes it is bashing.

We can indeed talk about the good things that occur in our churches as a testimony to others. Let us both warn and give good testimony in the body of Christ. To warn is not judgmental nor bashing. iwant2serve, I see many posts and people talking about great things going on in their local churches as well, so it's not absent.

Yet, you call the tithe satanic, but at the same time, Abraham paid a tithe to Melchizedek, a High Priest and King before the Mosaic Law was implemented. This was also mentioned in the NT and as such, the tithe itself is not based on the Law but God's principles. I do have a problem when churches require the laity to provide W-2 forms

. I agree though that it should be out of the heart of a cheerful giver.

iwant2serve · Nov 20, 2015

Mitspa said:

Why can't you say something good about the Pastors who do not abuse the authority God has given them?
Why keep bringing up how one who has authority and does not follow the directions themselves are in error.
Jesus said for all of us that if our righteousness does not exceed the Pharisees they will not inherit the kingdom.
So I would say this is a known fact but you must keep bringing it up.

blondieindahouse · Nov 20, 2015

jaybird88 said:

Amen to that!!! Not what the OP wanted to hear but oh well!

Mitspa · Nov 20, 2015

iwant2serve said:

Friend...the bible is the authority and I have tried to speak on this issue in a fair way, I don't believe I have been out of Gods Will on any post I have made...so Im sorry if the points I have made seem unfair to you...I don't see them that way.

Marian29 · Nov 20, 2015

There are blessed Pastors and fake Pastors... they can grow in this world, as the Bible said the wheat and tares would grow, but in the end, the tares will be burnt. (Mtt. 13:25)

jaybird88 · Nov 20, 2015

blondieindahouse said:

thanks blondie, and i hope the Op didnt think i was being ugly to him directly. all i ment was we should let our works speak for themselves, not call attention to our works.

i dont want to sound negative so i will say somethig good. one of the best preachers i had was named Joe, he was called late in his life, he retired from preaching about 10 years back. i still visit with him to this day. many thought his teachings were harsh but everyone loved him. as Christians he believed we should always give our best effort to serve our Lord knowing that we can always try harder. he believed that todays Christians have fallen away. there was never showmanship in his sermons, only compassion, he never called glory to himself, he always made time for those that needed him. when His grand daughter was about 2 she would sneak away from her mom and go up the stage to her grandpaw when he was preaching.
my favorite preacher and i miss his teachings greatly

blondieindahouse · Nov 20, 2015

jaybird88 said:

thanks blondie, and i hope the Op didnt think i was being ugly to him directly. all i ment was we should let our works speak for themselves, not call attention to our works.

i dont want to sound negative so i will say somethig good. one of the best preachers i had was named Joe, he was called late in his life, he retired from preaching about 10 years back. i still visit with him to this day. many thought his teachings were harsh but everyone loved him. as Christians he believed we should always give our best effort to serve our Lord knowing that we can always try harder. he believed that todays Christians have fallen away. there was never showmanship in his sermons, only compassion, he never called glory to himself, he always made time for those that needed him. when His grand daughter was about 2 she would sneak away from her mom and go up the stage to her grandpaw when he was preaching.
my favorite preacher and i miss his teachings greatly

thanks blondie, and i hope the Op didnt think i was being ugly to him directly. all i ment was we should let our works speak for themselves, not call attention to our works.

I agree.

Bonnie77 · Nov 20, 2015

Yes. yes, yes. and Amen!

HeRoseFromTheDead · Nov 21, 2015

The Pastor: Where Did He Come From? Frank Viola

Like Calvin, Luther also made the Pastor a separate and exalted office. While he argued that the keys of the kingdom belonged to all believers, Luther confined their use to those who held offices in the church.[192] “We are all priests,” said Luther, “insofar as we are Christians, but those whom we call priests are ministers selected from our midst to act in our name, and their priesthood is our ministry.”[193]

Sadly, Luther believed that all are in the priesthood, but not all can exercise the priesthood.[194] This is sacerdotalism, pure and simple. Luther broke from the Catholic camp in that he rejected a sacrificing priesthood. But in its place, he believed that the ministry of God’s Word belonged to a special order

iwant2serve · Nov 21, 2015

jaybird88 said:

Actually Jay I did not. As I said earlier in the post this is not about a Pastor who abuses the authority given by God to feed and nurture the flock in discipleship. Yet people cannot help but bring up the negative things about Pastor. God is clear in his word about what leaders and ones He placed under them should be like. You are one of the few to have anything good to say about their Pastor and I do appreciate that. If all we want to do is find fault in clergy then what is the purpose of having any at all?

iwant2serve · Nov 21, 2015

blondieindahouse said:

May God bless you and your Pastor the he may continue to teach you the ways of Jesus and discipleship.

Yet · Nov 22, 2015

I'm castigated for warning about wolves. See how far the church has sunk?

I use sound scripture to refute the Diotrephes ministers and their self exalted title bearing positions.
I'm blasted for it. See how far the church has sunk?

Everyone says this and that about me, putting me down but will not touch the verses I submit with a ten foot pole. Talk about a dark stronghold on the church.

Tyndale was strangled then burnt at the stake for teaching the very things I do. What does that tell you?

Yet · Nov 22, 2015

In another thread I had a word study. The word 'every' in 1Cor. 12:7. It proved the every member participation assembly.

A couple of weak responses but no one else touching the verse with steal meshed gloves. Scripture that smacks right up against organized religion.

Instead I get mocked. Why do you suppose?

Talking to Christians is like talking to liberals.....presenting facts is an excercize in futility.

ukok102nak · Nov 22, 2015

:smoke: we haven't read that thread of yours my brethren my brother
sorry for we are not all knowing . ...

:happy: but we could give some answers unto those verses
:read: 1 Corinthians: 12. 7. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9. To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10. To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11. But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

ukok102nak · Nov 22, 2015

:now: please
:read:
2 Corinthians: 3. 7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13. And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

:smoke: please observed how saulo este pablo or paul write this letters
for its only your understanding that could give a better enlightment
unto this verses from your inner spiritual thoughts . ...
:happy: WITH THE GUIDANCE OF GOODNESS THAT IS INSIDE YOU . ...

:sisid: As we've said before
we are not pastors or anything that a man could achieved
inside the true church as the early christians did . . ... :takbo:

for we dont even want to achieve anything from any
present religion sects or churches
just to become a part of history and fame or whatever :rofl:

:yawn: we just need to save the souls of people
:scarf: as many as we could and as far as we can . ...
:dontknow: if it took us even in death
: : we would not regret it!

:ty:

God bless us all always

Sirk · Nov 22, 2015

My pastor could not do what he does and work a 9 to 5. Physically and emotionally impossible.

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