Adam's fall and its consequences
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Such a disgrace, God chooses to remove the blinders from some but only some. No mercy there but now y'all will just say more bs. So Gods mercy is limited? Jesus saçifice wasn't enough for everyone? Now comes the crap about only God knows we cant understand. Sounds like a brutal uncaring God and yes many of the tulips here are in that image.
Welcome back davida. As I have stated a few times TULIP is distorted theology and a perversion of the Gospel of God's grace (even though they label that "The Doctrines of Grace").
The true doctrines of grace are:
1. All human beings are sinners, and all need salvation.
2. Christ died for the sins of the whole world.
3. The offer of eternal life is to "whosover will" receive it.
4. The power of the Gospel, and the convicting and convincing power of the Holy Spirit, are powerful enough to bring the lost to Christ.
4. God elects no one to either Heaven or Hell. However He does elect and predestinate the saints "to be conformed to the image of His Son".
All this erroneous teaching began with Augustine of Hippo, a Roman Catholic. The Reformers bought it hook, line, and sinker. And now the Reformed Churches will never admit that they preach "another gospel".
The true doctrines of grace are:
1. All human beings are sinners, and all need salvation.
2. Christ died for the sins of the whole world.
3. The offer of eternal life is to "whosover will" receive it.
4. The power of the Gospel, and the convicting and convincing power of the Holy Spirit, are powerful enough to bring the lost to Christ.
4. God elects no one to either Heaven or Hell. However He does elect and predestinate the saints "to be conformed to the image of His Son".
All this erroneous teaching began with Augustine of Hippo, a Roman Catholic. The Reformers bought it hook, line, and sinker. And now the Reformed Churches will never admit that they preach "another gospel".
Such a disgrace. God chose to save nobody, but only made salvation possible for all. Man's will is supreme. So God's sovereignity is limited? Jesus sacrifice didn't save anyone? But only made it possible? Sounds like an incompetent God.
I have no hate towards you. I only wrote the above to prove a point and show you how easily these accusations can be turned around. Lets deal with the Scriptures and not with emotions. Human emotions are frail, shaky and can lead us astray.
I have no hate towards you. I only wrote the above to prove a point and show you how easily these accusations can be turned around. Lets deal with the Scriptures and not with emotions. Human emotions are frail, shaky and can lead us astray.
What about the antichrist and Judas? Is the offer of salvation available to them as well? Or Pharaoh?
Augustine was not a roman catholic, this shows me you have not actually read Augustine's writings. The roman catholic church disagrees with Augustine's teaching of predestination, in fact the roman catholic church agrees much more with the arminian position.
I have an idea where you might have gotten this misunderstanding. Did you see him use the word catholic? The early church fathers are talking about the universal church, body of believers. Not the roman catholic church as we know it today.
Augustine was not a roman catholic, this shows me you have not actually read Augustine's writings. The roman catholic church disagrees with Augustine's teaching of predestination, in fact the roman catholic church agrees much more with the arminian position.
I have an idea where you might have gotten this misunderstanding. Did you see him use the word catholic? The early church fathers are talking about the universal church, body of believers. Not the roman catholic church as we know it today.
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If indeed God would "choose" to save sinners, then He would choose to save all humanity. Why?
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Tim 2:3-6).
Nobody in their right mind or with an ounce of Bible knowledge makes this claim. Another straw man. But there can be no denying that after sinners have heard the Gospel, they must listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit and respond in faith.
7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. (Hebrews 3:7-12).
Another straw man argument. Nobody in their right mind or with an ounce of Bible knowledge makes this claim. On the other hand, while God commands all men everywhere to repent, He allows men to either obey or disobey the Gospel.
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (Acts 17:30).
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Thess 1:8)
If God would choose to exercise His almighty power and His absolute sovereignty in bringing sinners to salvation, THEN NONE COULD DISOBEY THE GOSPEL AND ALL WOULD BE SAVED. Another straw man argument. While Jesus paid the penalty for the sins of the whole world, salvation is NOT automatic. There are conditions to salvation, and unless these conditions are met, none can be saved.
And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:20,21).
Yes, let's deal with the Scriptures which I have given you, which are totally in context, and totally demolish all your straw man arguments. So are you now going to believe God and reject the doctrines of men, or are you going to double down in your errors and dismiss all these Scriptures as irrelevant?
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. (1 Tim 2:3-6).
Nobody in their right mind or with an ounce of Bible knowledge makes this claim. Another straw man. But there can be no denying that after sinners have heard the Gospel, they must listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit and respond in faith.
7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. (Hebrews 3:7-12).
Another straw man argument. Nobody in their right mind or with an ounce of Bible knowledge makes this claim. On the other hand, while God commands all men everywhere to repent, He allows men to either obey or disobey the Gospel.
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (Acts 17:30).
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Thess 1:8)
If God would choose to exercise His almighty power and His absolute sovereignty in bringing sinners to salvation, THEN NONE COULD DISOBEY THE GOSPEL AND ALL WOULD BE SAVED. Another straw man argument. While Jesus paid the penalty for the sins of the whole world, salvation is NOT automatic. There are conditions to salvation, and unless these conditions are met, none can be saved.
And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:20,21).
Yes, let's deal with the Scriptures which I have given you, which are totally in context, and totally demolish all your straw man arguments. So are you now going to believe God and reject the doctrines of men, or are you going to double down in your errors and dismiss all these Scriptures as irrelevant?
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Ephesians one precedes Ephesians 2. Ephesian one says you were chosen in Him before the creation of the world. Why do you not believe it? God did not change His mind toward you, just because you changed your mind (repented) of your rebellion against God. His plan ALWAYS was to redeem all who repent and believe.
What about them? Why do you want to go off on a rabbit trail?
Should I say "Ha,ha, ha, ha"? Here is the truth about Augustine from the Catholic New Advent Encyclopedia: 'In the nineteenth century Stöckl expressed the thought of all when he said, "Augustine has justly been called the greatest Doctor of the Catholic world."'
Since he lived from 384-356 the "Catholic Church" and the Roman Catholic Church were identical by that time.
Should I say "Ha,ha, ha, ha"? Here is the truth about Augustine from the Catholic New Advent Encyclopedia: 'In the nineteenth century Stöckl expressed the thought of all when he said, "Augustine has justly been called the greatest Doctor of the Catholic world."'
Since he lived from 384-356 the "Catholic Church" and the Roman Catholic Church were identical by that time.
Let's take a look:
Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Please note what it does not say. It does not say that we were chosen to be in him before the foundation of the world. The word, "according" is directing us to look back at verse 3. The spiritual blessings in the heavenly places are in accordance to what God has chosen before the foundation of the world. Before the foundation of the world, God chose to give spiritual blessings to those in Christ. Those in Christ were not chosen, rather, the spiritual blessings were chosen.
Having predestinated us for the adoption. Who's us? Those in Christ. Predestined for what? The adoption. What's the adoption? The redemption of our body. See Romans 8:23. It's a future thing. It's being conformed to the image of His Son. The destination of those in Christ is to receive the redemption of the body. The adoption is not salvation, but a blessing coming to those who are saved.
Ephesians 1
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Please note what it does not say. It does not say that we were chosen to be in him before the foundation of the world. The word, "according" is directing us to look back at verse 3. The spiritual blessings in the heavenly places are in accordance to what God has chosen before the foundation of the world. Before the foundation of the world, God chose to give spiritual blessings to those in Christ. Those in Christ were not chosen, rather, the spiritual blessings were chosen.
Having predestinated us for the adoption. Who's us? Those in Christ. Predestined for what? The adoption. What's the adoption? The redemption of our body. See Romans 8:23. It's a future thing. It's being conformed to the image of His Son. The destination of those in Christ is to receive the redemption of the body. The adoption is not salvation, but a blessing coming to those who are saved.
Do you have children?
Have you ever threatened them? Tell them if they don't clean their room they're going to get a spanking?
Now you can be 100% serious about them getting a spanking but not have to give one if they do what is required. That is not a lie. Its motivation.
You've told them they were going to get a spanking but you know that you don't have to give them one because you know before-hand that they know you are serious and will do what is required in order to not get one.
That's what God did with Ninevah. If He REALLY planned on destroying them in 40 days He would not have sent Jonah. Even you must know how obvious that is.
Jonah sure did.
Have you ever threatened them? Tell them if they don't clean their room they're going to get a spanking?
Now you can be 100% serious about them getting a spanking but not have to give one if they do what is required. That is not a lie. Its motivation.
You've told them they were going to get a spanking but you know that you don't have to give them one because you know before-hand that they know you are serious and will do what is required in order to not get one.
That's what God did with Ninevah. If He REALLY planned on destroying them in 40 days He would not have sent Jonah. Even you must know how obvious that is.
Jonah sure did.
Sissy, you have the wrong view of who man and God is. Man is not someone, when in their fallen state, was looking for a way to God. Nay, they were running from Him, and the lost are still running from Him.
Look at those who rejected the Christ whilst He was here on earth. They sought some way to have Him killed. When they saw the miraculous raising of Lazarus, they did not praise God, they went and told the religious leaders what the Christ had done. When they came to see the Christ, they also came to see Lazarus. That is why the religious leaders sought to kill Lazarus and the Christ both.
Whilst He was dying upon the cross, they mocked Him, wagged their heads at Him, said, "He can save others, but can not save Himself!"
I am amazed that God saves anyone.
The thing you need to realize is that God did not have to remove the 'blinders' off of anyone to begin with. Instead of getting mad at God for removing some ppl's blinders, you should rejoice that He mercifully removes blinders from anyone at all.
Look at those who rejected the Christ whilst He was here on earth. They sought some way to have Him killed. When they saw the miraculous raising of Lazarus, they did not praise God, they went and told the religious leaders what the Christ had done. When they came to see the Christ, they also came to see Lazarus. That is why the religious leaders sought to kill Lazarus and the Christ both.
Whilst He was dying upon the cross, they mocked Him, wagged their heads at Him, said, "He can save others, but can not save Himself!"
I am amazed that God saves anyone.
The thing you need to realize is that God did not have to remove the 'blinders' off of anyone to begin with. Instead of getting mad at God for removing some ppl's blinders, you should rejoice that He mercifully removes blinders from anyone at all.
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