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An answer to the prosperity Gospel
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So many christians, so many different 'brands' - all professing the 'bible' as the basis of their beliefs.
Literally thousands of variations.
Some, no doubt, simply seekers of fame and fortune.
But most, I suspect, are sincere and genuine - utterly certain their interpretation or emphasis is "gospel".
What a pity the 'message' could not have been conveyed clearly and unambiguously.
Literally thousands of variations.
Some, no doubt, simply seekers of fame and fortune.
But most, I suspect, are sincere and genuine - utterly certain their interpretation or emphasis is "gospel".
What a pity the 'message' could not have been conveyed clearly and unambiguously.
How do I only have half the equation? Are you seriously still not reading what I am writing?
If god promises all christians good health then why are there so many sick and dying Christians?
Lack of faith? Give me a break! Answer that for me.
If God promises wealth and prosperity why are so many Christians poor?
Lack of faith again? Is god a Liar?
Answer those questions for me.
I make no claim that Christians needs to be poor, or sick etc, I am just saying it's a foolish and unbiblical lie that all Christians will have great health, or a home, and a decent bank account.
SOME DO. SOME DON'T. How that is a one-sided coin I will never know.
If god promises all christians good health then why are there so many sick and dying Christians?
Lack of faith? Give me a break! Answer that for me.
If God promises wealth and prosperity why are so many Christians poor?
Lack of faith again? Is god a Liar?
Answer those questions for me.
I make no claim that Christians needs to be poor, or sick etc, I am just saying it's a foolish and unbiblical lie that all Christians will have great health, or a home, and a decent bank account.
SOME DO. SOME DON'T. How that is a one-sided coin I will never know.
Excellent question Matty.
I stand confused - a genuine seeker after truth - but all I see are inconsistencies and contradictions.
Like I said " What a pity the 'message' could not have been conveyed clearly and unambiguously."
I know, you and just about everybody here can give me "THE TRUTH"
but those 'truths' will differ - and not just about petty stuff but about the real basics.
So I remain uncertain.
I stand confused - a genuine seeker after truth - but all I see are inconsistencies and contradictions.
Like I said " What a pity the 'message' could not have been conveyed clearly and unambiguously."
I know, you and just about everybody here can give me "THE TRUTH"
but those 'truths' will differ - and not just about petty stuff but about the real basics.
So I remain uncertain.
Jesus made it very simple, 'weeds' in the field - the Good Seed also in the field..------> the weeds have many different gospels, as in the plant kingdom , many different type of 'weeds'... Only One Good Seed though, that which Bears Fruit from Good Ground, a heart that has been Genuinely changed by the Working of the Paraclete, God is Not Divided, Christ is not Divided, all those confusing groups and messages??? who is the Author of Confusion.. mmmmmm
your spiritual status says not Christian, which means you are looking for the truth.
i was where you are a year and a half ago. my advice to you is you will not find the 'truth' by listening to man, meaning all of us here as well.
get the new testament bible, only the new testament, don't bog yourself down right now with what is old and not our covenant.
there are easier to read English versions, but i would have an older style one like the king james version on hand just to check once in a while that the scriptures written have been translated pretty close because there are some that are way out of whack.
read the new testament, every day, from front page to back, don't skip from here to there, even one page a day but read it every day, and when done read it again and again. you will start out reading the letter of the word and eventually the spirit of the word with seed into your heart and mind.
the truth is in the word as given by god through jesus christ in the new testament.
this is where i have found the truth, and i have now no more questions.
God bless
i was where you are a year and a half ago. my advice to you is you will not find the 'truth' by listening to man, meaning all of us here as well.
get the new testament bible, only the new testament, don't bog yourself down right now with what is old and not our covenant.
there are easier to read English versions, but i would have an older style one like the king james version on hand just to check once in a while that the scriptures written have been translated pretty close because there are some that are way out of whack.
read the new testament, every day, from front page to back, don't skip from here to there, even one page a day but read it every day, and when done read it again and again. you will start out reading the letter of the word and eventually the spirit of the word with seed into your heart and mind.
the truth is in the word as given by god through jesus christ in the new testament.
this is where i have found the truth, and i have now no more questions.
God bless
Some miss the Mark, in their search For Truth, oh yes. they gather the Scripture together, put it down on paper, this is what we consider to be 'truth'... they forget..
Truth is A PERSON. the Person of Christ, He that was Crucified for Appeasement........ God manifest in the flesh...
Jesus saith unto him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.
Luke 6:38 (KJV) [SUP]38 [/SUP] Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Commandment with a promise. It's been true for me and many others who have faith to stand on it. Why ignore the promise part, pretending you didn't see the part I'm bolding. You just give and refuse to think you might be blessed? The only part I see where we ought not expect blessing back is when lending. Luke 6:35 (KJV)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Here's a fact: 2 Corinthians 9:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
The promise encourages doing all things bountifully. God doesn't promise things for no purpose. I don't take anything God says as rhetoric.
As already posted several posts up, 2 Corinthians 9:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
Again, promise coupled with action. That isn't just a spiritual thing, but covers all things needed to do good works. God is not lacking. He's not like an evil parent that has much, but gives a rock when the child asks for some bread. He is about prosperity of all kinds, for the soul, the body, relationships, taking the gospel to the world. These days that requires bountifulness just like those folks supplied to Paul.
"Give to get". You are letting a few bad apples deceive you. I bought a bag of apples last week, opened it, the first two in bad shape. I took it back. We like that little store. The manager poured the apples out on the counter, the rest of them perfect. He put two good ones in and I was happy, and he was alerted to check the pile of bags. Had I poured them out at home I wouldn't have bothered returning them. But the grand children get apples after school. I assumed too much.
I give knowing God will keep blessings flowing through me, as he has proved that over and over consistently, and he gives his word on it.
Commandment with a promise. It's been true for me and many others who have faith to stand on it. Why ignore the promise part, pretending you didn't see the part I'm bolding. You just give and refuse to think you might be blessed? The only part I see where we ought not expect blessing back is when lending. Luke 6:35 (KJV)
[SUP]35 [/SUP] But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Here's a fact: 2 Corinthians 9:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
The promise encourages doing all things bountifully. God doesn't promise things for no purpose. I don't take anything God says as rhetoric.
As already posted several posts up, 2 Corinthians 9:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
Again, promise coupled with action. That isn't just a spiritual thing, but covers all things needed to do good works. God is not lacking. He's not like an evil parent that has much, but gives a rock when the child asks for some bread. He is about prosperity of all kinds, for the soul, the body, relationships, taking the gospel to the world. These days that requires bountifulness just like those folks supplied to Paul.
"Give to get". You are letting a few bad apples deceive you. I bought a bag of apples last week, opened it, the first two in bad shape. I took it back. We like that little store. The manager poured the apples out on the counter, the rest of them perfect. He put two good ones in and I was happy, and he was alerted to check the pile of bags. Had I poured them out at home I wouldn't have bothered returning them. But the grand children get apples after school. I assumed too much.
I give knowing God will keep blessings flowing through me, as he has proved that over and over consistently, and he gives his word on it.
You have stated here you give with expectation of return. That is where WOF falls is blind, leading another blind and enters into the pit[Ironically that is found in Luke 6.39]
WOF teaches if you give you will get. It is not just a few bad apples. I can go on any WOF mission base in the world and they teach the same foolishness.
You have eloquently proved my point. YOU only give to GET back, not once in your tepid defense of the hell bound heresy have you ever stated you receive to give back. Its all about you!
When Jesus went to the cross he went without any expectation of any kind of return for his redemptive work. He knew many were going to reject what he went through and his suffering, yet he still was obedient, even to the cross.
WOF eradicates brokenness, trials and tribulations, because you are all spoiled brat "kings kids" demanding that God give you what you want, how you want and when you want and will not take anything else in consideration nor accept anything other than what you blabbed and claimed! and if it falls short, it is because your faith was weak.
We do not storm the gates of heaven and demand of abba. We ask and receive!
We storm the gates of hell and take back what and who the enemy stole!
A few bad apples my behind!
Stop spitting on people and saying hey look ...its rain!
P
as if you do not present suffering,poverty in lieu of God's promises.
I never said "wealth" and prosperity is not "money only".In fact, "....as your soul prospers" is our clue to priorities.
under your template here,we can assume salvation is suspect also as that is promised but few take him up on it.
Why would God bless someone that resents blessing?
You will have to blame the bible then,for it contains what you call foolish.
Progress,but your message is one sided,and therefore error.
The fact you buck up against God's promises is proof.
I never said "wealth" and prosperity is not "money only".In fact, "....as your soul prospers" is our clue to priorities.
under your template here,we can assume salvation is suspect also as that is promised but few take him up on it.
Why would God bless someone that resents blessing?
You will have to blame the bible then,for it contains what you call foolish.
Progress,but your message is one sided,and therefore error.
The fact you buck up against God's promises is proof.
P
I pretty much agree. And have issues with wof.Mainly the error by emphasis. Just can not and will not demonize believers for error.
They favor,like you say,blessing,over the inevitable storm and trials,causing their members to stumble and fail.
We are promised a return. It is a law. It is called sowing and reaping. You will have to confront heaven with that one.
They favor,like you say,blessing,over the inevitable storm and trials,causing their members to stumble and fail.
We are promised a return. It is a law. It is called sowing and reaping. You will have to confront heaven with that one.
P
1)Well,he sure did not buck up at God and say,"you have your priorities wrong God.How can you bless me with millions(in todays economy) when those sodomites are selling little girls in the sex trade.You are just wrong God."
"what I long for is broke,suffering,and defeat"
2) In your defense.ishmael illustrates what "asking amiss/demanding" can bring as far as disaster.
"what I long for is broke,suffering,and defeat"
2) In your defense.ishmael illustrates what "asking amiss/demanding" can bring as far as disaster.
Of course he did not buck God, but he simply believed and God blessed him.
If WOF simply taught that, then I could get behind it, but they do not. The teach/preach GIVE to GET!
Faith is not loud and now.
Faith is simply being fully persuaded and assured what God has said he will do.
I will state it again Abraham did not cross the wilderness confessing:
Thank you Father for the 100 camels, now I need 1000 camels, I need 1000 camels, I need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camels
If WOF simply taught that, then I could get behind it, but they do not. The teach/preach GIVE to GET!
Faith is not loud and now.
Faith is simply being fully persuaded and assured what God has said he will do.
I will state it again Abraham did not cross the wilderness confessing:
Thank you Father for the 100 camels, now I need 1000 camels, I need 1000 camels, I need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camelsI need 1000 camels
U
The point is entirely missed that wealth and health is NOT an indicator of Faith,
and poverty and illness is not an indicator of lack of Faith.
Even the wicked can obtain health and wealth.
And death is common to all men.
The Promises are not superficial, but deep; and they are ALWAYS true.
Wealth and health do not always follow Faith and righteousness. The true blessings of God are not so shallow, and ALWAYS follow Faith and righteousness.
and poverty and illness is not an indicator of lack of Faith.
Even the wicked can obtain health and wealth.
And death is common to all men.
The Promises are not superficial, but deep; and they are ALWAYS true.
Wealth and health do not always follow Faith and righteousness. The true blessings of God are not so shallow, and ALWAYS follow Faith and righteousness.