annihilation or conscious torment????
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My interpretation is this: We are a spirit, or soul, in a flesh vessel. It's the vessel that causes us to be able to have sensations. Without tastebuds, and a brain to interpret flavours we couldn't taste. Same with touch, smell, sound and sight. At the resurrection we, those who have served the Almighty in this life, are supposed to get new incorruptible bodies in the life to come. Then our soul will have a new vessel. Our soul is who we are, our consciousness. Without a vessel we would never be able to feel or communicate, or experience the material world, in which we were created to be a part of. This is the agony. Our soul is eternal and would be forever displaced from a vessel. This is like the unclean spirits that attempt to possess men. Some believe the unclean spirits are the disembodied souls of the Nephalim. Their souls are partially human and can inhabit men if the right conditions are met. I understand this isn't what is commonly taught but it isn't proved wrong by Scripture.
Hello Hungry,
Just FYI, both the righteous and the unrighteous will receive a resurrected body. The souls/spirits of the unrighteous dead will be resurrected out of Hades, receiving indestructible bodies fit for the lake of fire. The resurrection has to do with the physical body standing up again. Regarding the resurrection of the unjust, Jesus and Daniel said the following:
"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voiceand come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned." - John 5:28
"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." - Dan.12:2
The resurrection always has to do with the body standing up again and as the scripture above demonstrates, both the righteous and the wicked will receive resurrected bodies. The wicked who are resurrected will receive a body that will experience the flames of the lake of fire, but won't be able to be destroyed by it. Therefore, it is only while the unrighteous are in Sheol/Hades that they are without bodies, but will receive them to stand before God at the great white throne judgment. (See Rev.20:11-15)
Blessings!
Just FYI, both the righteous and the unrighteous will receive a resurrected body. The souls/spirits of the unrighteous dead will be resurrected out of Hades, receiving indestructible bodies fit for the lake of fire. The resurrection has to do with the physical body standing up again. Regarding the resurrection of the unjust, Jesus and Daniel said the following:
"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voiceand come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned." - John 5:28
"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." - Dan.12:2
The resurrection always has to do with the body standing up again and as the scripture above demonstrates, both the righteous and the wicked will receive resurrected bodies. The wicked who are resurrected will receive a body that will experience the flames of the lake of fire, but won't be able to be destroyed by it. Therefore, it is only while the unrighteous are in Sheol/Hades that they are without bodies, but will receive them to stand before God at the great white throne judgment. (See Rev.20:11-15)
Blessings!
Yes not annihilation......... never to rise to new spirit life forver and ever but living suffering
In that verse they are alive and suffering the pangs of hell the tribulation of this life (spirit) in these bodies of death.
A person must have spirit life (the essence of all life) in order to suffer. The dead know nothing, no conscience awareness
In respect to its reasoning It was a living sacrifice reasoned by a living affliction as in both examples. Death simply shows spirit life was given
Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell (the present suffering)cried I, and thou heardest my voice.Jon 2:1
Unto death, not dead. Christ cannot die. He is not a n man as us.
Ma And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding "sorrowful unto death": tarry ye here, and watch. And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.r 14:34
The father strengthened both according to their living request to finish the work of suffering.
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It doesn't claim to be annihilation, it claims to be destruction. But the bodies are DEAD. An they are eaten by maggots and destroyed in fire. They are an abhorrence because of what they WERE
You love to think of them suffering don't you? But it says 'dead bodies'. No mention of any life, or any spirit.
Its just that God forgot to tell us?
Thats nearer the mark, And they HAVEN'T got spirit life. They are dead bodies and know nothing.
You love to think of them suffering don't you? But it says 'dead bodies'. No mention of any life, or any spirit.
Its just that God forgot to tell us?
Thats nearer the mark, And they HAVEN'T got spirit life. They are dead bodies and know nothing.
I greatly disagree! The information that I provided comes directly from the word of God. Technology and science is not going to explain these truths that I have provided. These truths are not complicated if you study scripture. That said and according to scripture, every human, whether saved or unsaved, will receive a resurrected body. No human being whether in in heaven or in the lake of fire will spend their existence as a body-less spirit. Below is the definition of the word anastasis translated as Resurrection:
386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, "up, again" and 2476/hístēmi, "to stand") – literally, "stand up" (or "stand again"), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).
Christ's physical resurrection is the foundation of Christianity, which also guarantees the future resurrection of all believers (see Jn 6:39,40,44).
[386 /anástasis ("resurrection") refers to the physical, bodily resurrection of Christ – and people (both of the redeemed and the unredeemed).]
In order to know what God's word says, you don't go to technology, science or discovery, you read what God has to say about it and that is what you use to support God's word. Technology and discovery gets rid of God and has us climbing out from a primordial pool and evolving from Simians. Technology is not going to understand the miraculous event of the bodies of the dead being resurrected and the living being changed into their immortal and glorified bodies, much less be able to explain it using science. What I have told you is according to God's word and is the truth. Take a close look at the definition of anastasia above. A resurrected body is what every person, whether righteous or wicked will receive which they will spend their existence in.
386 anástasis (from 303 /aná, "up, again" and 2476/hístēmi, "to stand") – literally, "stand up" (or "stand again"), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).
Christ's physical resurrection is the foundation of Christianity, which also guarantees the future resurrection of all believers (see Jn 6:39,40,44).
[386 /anástasis ("resurrection") refers to the physical, bodily resurrection of Christ – and people (both of the redeemed and the unredeemed).]
In order to know what God's word says, you don't go to technology, science or discovery, you read what God has to say about it and that is what you use to support God's word. Technology and discovery gets rid of God and has us climbing out from a primordial pool and evolving from Simians. Technology is not going to understand the miraculous event of the bodies of the dead being resurrected and the living being changed into their immortal and glorified bodies, much less be able to explain it using science. What I have told you is according to God's word and is the truth. Take a close look at the definition of anastasia above. A resurrected body is what every person, whether righteous or wicked will receive which they will spend their existence in.
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I disagree, it is not science that has us climbing out of a primordial pool. That stems from ignorance and a faith that is not supported by facts. The more I learn, the more in awe I am at His creative power. He uses the same mechanics that balance our internal selves, to balance our environment and ultimately our universe. Just to analyze one system within this vessel we can see how beautifully it coordinates with the other systems and how all systems have communication by way of other systems. Ultimately all systems are seeking balance but it is the environmental systems that influence those systems again all in an effort for balance. The Creator is a fantastic Engineer who opened my eyes to see His design. It repeats itself. Sin is no different then a disease that effects His Creation. Some cherubs were supposed to serve a purpose but corrupted it. He administered his Medicine who is the Messiah. Before long the healing will take effect. All of those who return to their purpose to serve Him will be given new life and a body. Those who do not will be escorted away and dealt with just like the body's immune system deals with foreign invaders that cause imbalance. Whether you think they receive an immortal vessel for eternal punishment or whether I believe that the soul requires a vessel to experience pleasure, the result is the same. Separation from the Almighty and His purpose, will result in everlasting torment.
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I was trying to define what annihilation is..... like you metioned no kind of life.The dead know nothing they have no conscious existence, no spirit by which they could suffer. No suspended animation.
When a person dies their lifeless body return to the dust from where it was formed of and in the twinkling of the spirit return to the Father who gave it temporally.
Its there(never to rise to new eternal spirit life. The example is a living suffering called the work of Christ….can’t work to suffer if a person is dead
m 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also
Christ cannot die .God as Eternal Spirit is not a man as us .He remains without father or mother beginning of days and end of Spirit life
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
When a person dies their lifeless body return to the dust from where it was formed of and in the twinkling of the spirit return to the Father who gave it temporally.
Its there(never to rise to new eternal spirit life. The example is a living suffering called the work of Christ….can’t work to suffer if a person is dead
m 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also
Christ cannot die .God as Eternal Spirit is not a man as us .He remains without father or mother beginning of days and end of Spirit life
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Y
Revelation 9:6
During THOSE DAYS men will seek death but will not find it, they will long to die but death will flee from them"
I argue for annihilation from this verse in addition to the many other verses scripture provides. This is speaking of a period of 5 months when scorpions from the abyss torment men ON EARTH. This is the only time scripture teaches that men will desire to die to escape their torment with no success and for only a period of 5 months. This verse is key in showing that God has not planned for the perpetual suffering of people in flames
Anyone burning in flames would desire to be unconscious in order for their suffering to end so why doesn't scripture say the wicked will desire death when burning in the lake of fire? It only says there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth but no reference to the wicked wanting the torment to stop? It's because the torment will stop. The flames will not burn the wicked eternally, only on the day that fire rains upon them. It will be an unquenchable Fire, the kind that you cannot put out by dropping and rolling or smacking your body. That fire will burn until the wicked are literally devoured, consumed and turned to ashes
And here are other verses for anyone who cares to do some studying on the topic
Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must NOT BE ALLOWEDTO reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and LIVE FOREVER."
-Souls are not eternal/immortal by design
Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the PUNISHMENT OF ETERNALFIRE
-punishment of eternal fire is not an ongoing process but a final result
1 Tim 6:15-16
"He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who ALONE POSSESSES IMMORTALITY..."
-again, men are not immortal/eternal souls, only God grants the gift of immortality
Matthew 10:28
"Rather, fear him which is able to DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY in hell.”
-God truly can destroy a soul in hell, again, souls are not eternal
Rom 6:23—"For the wages of sin is DEATH, but the gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Hebrews 10:26-27
"judgment and of raging FIRE THAT WILL CONSUME the enemies of God
Gal 6:8
"For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap CORRUPTION, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap ETERNAL LIFE"
Matthew 7:19
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire
John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son WILL NOT SEE LIFE, but the wrath of God abides on him."
John 10:28
"and I give ETERNAL LIFE to them, and they will never PERISH; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."
Malachi 4:3
Then you will trample on the wicked; THEYWILL BE ASHES under the soles of your feet on THE DAY when I act," says the LORD Almighty.
Ezequiel 18:23
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should DIE? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and LIVE?
John 3:16
"whosoever believeth in him should NOT PERISH"
2 Thessalonians 1:9
"who shall be punished with EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION"
Philippians 3:19
"whose END is DESTRUCTION…“
Psalm 37:20
"But the wicked shall PERISH… they shall CONSUME; into smoke shall they CONSUMED
Psalm 92:7
that though THE WICKED spring up like grass and all evildoers flourish, they WILL BE DESTROYED FOREVER.
Prov. 24:20
"the lamp of the wicked will be SNUFFED OUT
Dan. 2:35
"the wind swept them away WITHOUT LEAVING A TRACE.”
Isa. 1:28, 30–31
"rebels and sinners shall be DESTROYED together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be CONSUMED
Mal 4:1
"All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “NOT A ROOT OR A BRANCH WILL BE LEFT TO THEM.”
Revelation 20:14
Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. THIS LAKE OF FIRE IS THE SECOND DEATH
Revelation 21:4
4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be NO MORE DEATH’[a] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
2 Peter 3:10
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be DESTROYED WITH INTENSE HEAT and the earth and its works will be BURNED UP"
Matthew 13:41-43
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, And them which do iniquity; and shall CAST THEM INTO A FURNACE OF FIRE, there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth
Psalm 37:38
But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future for the wicked
Genesis 3:19
for dust thou art, and UNTO DUST SHALT THOU RETURN
Matthew 3:12
but he will burn up the chaff with UNQUENCHABLE FIRE.
Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels"
Psalms 21:9
Thou shalt MAKE THEM AS A FIERY OVEN in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall SWALLOW THEM UP in his wrath, and THE FIRE SHALL DEVOUR THEM"
Isaiah 47:14
"Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it."
Ezequiel 28:18
"Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, IT SHALL DEVOUR THEE, AND I WILL BRING THEE TO ASHES UPON THE EARTH in the sight of all them that behold thee."
-Even Satan gets turned into ashes
2 Peter 2:6
if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by BURNING THEM TO ASHES, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
Jude 1:7
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the VENGEANCE of ETERNAL FIRE."
Isaiah 34:8-10
8 For the LORD has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause. 9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! 10It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again.
Psalm 68:2
May you blow them away like smoke-- as wax melts before the fire, may the wicked perish before God
Psalm 37:10
A little while, and the wicked will be no more;
though you look for them, they will not be found.
Psalm 37:12-13
The wicked plot against the righteous
and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked,
for he knows their day is coming.
Psalm 104:35
Let all sinners vanish from the face of the earth; let the wicked disappear forever
During THOSE DAYS men will seek death but will not find it, they will long to die but death will flee from them"
I argue for annihilation from this verse in addition to the many other verses scripture provides. This is speaking of a period of 5 months when scorpions from the abyss torment men ON EARTH. This is the only time scripture teaches that men will desire to die to escape their torment with no success and for only a period of 5 months. This verse is key in showing that God has not planned for the perpetual suffering of people in flames
Anyone burning in flames would desire to be unconscious in order for their suffering to end so why doesn't scripture say the wicked will desire death when burning in the lake of fire? It only says there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth but no reference to the wicked wanting the torment to stop? It's because the torment will stop. The flames will not burn the wicked eternally, only on the day that fire rains upon them. It will be an unquenchable Fire, the kind that you cannot put out by dropping and rolling or smacking your body. That fire will burn until the wicked are literally devoured, consumed and turned to ashes
And here are other verses for anyone who cares to do some studying on the topic
Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must NOT BE ALLOWEDTO reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and LIVE FOREVER."
-Souls are not eternal/immortal by design
Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the PUNISHMENT OF ETERNALFIRE
-punishment of eternal fire is not an ongoing process but a final result
1 Tim 6:15-16
"He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who ALONE POSSESSES IMMORTALITY..."
-again, men are not immortal/eternal souls, only God grants the gift of immortality
Matthew 10:28
"Rather, fear him which is able to DESTROY BOTH SOUL AND BODY in hell.”
-God truly can destroy a soul in hell, again, souls are not eternal
Rom 6:23—"For the wages of sin is DEATH, but the gift of God is ETERNAL LIFE in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Hebrews 10:26-27
"judgment and of raging FIRE THAT WILL CONSUME the enemies of God
Gal 6:8
"For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap CORRUPTION, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap ETERNAL LIFE"
Matthew 7:19
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire
John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son WILL NOT SEE LIFE, but the wrath of God abides on him."
John 10:28
"and I give ETERNAL LIFE to them, and they will never PERISH; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."
Malachi 4:3
Then you will trample on the wicked; THEYWILL BE ASHES under the soles of your feet on THE DAY when I act," says the LORD Almighty.
Ezequiel 18:23
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should DIE? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and LIVE?
John 3:16
"whosoever believeth in him should NOT PERISH"
2 Thessalonians 1:9
"who shall be punished with EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION"
Philippians 3:19
"whose END is DESTRUCTION…“
Psalm 37:20
"But the wicked shall PERISH… they shall CONSUME; into smoke shall they CONSUMED
Psalm 92:7
that though THE WICKED spring up like grass and all evildoers flourish, they WILL BE DESTROYED FOREVER.
Prov. 24:20
"the lamp of the wicked will be SNUFFED OUT
Dan. 2:35
"the wind swept them away WITHOUT LEAVING A TRACE.”
Isa. 1:28, 30–31
"rebels and sinners shall be DESTROYED together, and those who forsake the Lord shall be CONSUMED
Mal 4:1
"All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the LORD Almighty. “NOT A ROOT OR A BRANCH WILL BE LEFT TO THEM.”
Revelation 20:14
Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. THIS LAKE OF FIRE IS THE SECOND DEATH
Revelation 21:4
4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be NO MORE DEATH’[a] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
2 Peter 3:10
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be DESTROYED WITH INTENSE HEAT and the earth and its works will be BURNED UP"
Matthew 13:41-43
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, And them which do iniquity; and shall CAST THEM INTO A FURNACE OF FIRE, there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth
Psalm 37:38
But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future for the wicked
Genesis 3:19
for dust thou art, and UNTO DUST SHALT THOU RETURN
Matthew 3:12
but he will burn up the chaff with UNQUENCHABLE FIRE.
Matthew 25:41
"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels"
Psalms 21:9
Thou shalt MAKE THEM AS A FIERY OVEN in the time of thine anger: the LORD shall SWALLOW THEM UP in his wrath, and THE FIRE SHALL DEVOUR THEM"
Isaiah 47:14
"Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it."
Ezequiel 28:18
"Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, IT SHALL DEVOUR THEE, AND I WILL BRING THEE TO ASHES UPON THE EARTH in the sight of all them that behold thee."
-Even Satan gets turned into ashes
2 Peter 2:6
if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by BURNING THEM TO ASHES, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
Jude 1:7
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the VENGEANCE of ETERNAL FIRE."
Isaiah 34:8-10
8 For the LORD has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause. 9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! 10It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again.
Psalm 68:2
May you blow them away like smoke-- as wax melts before the fire, may the wicked perish before God
Psalm 37:10
A little while, and the wicked will be no more;
though you look for them, they will not be found.
Psalm 37:12-13
The wicked plot against the righteous
and gnash their teeth at them;
but the Lord laughs at the wicked,
for he knows their day is coming.
Psalm 104:35
Let all sinners vanish from the face of the earth; let the wicked disappear forever
but at the judgment the one will live and the other will be destroyed.
Scripture plainly says that the Devil and his minions will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. There is no Scripture which says men will be so. In fact some are to be punished with few stripes. A strange way of putting eternal torment,
Scripture plainly says that the Devil and his minions will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. There is no Scripture which says men will be so. In fact some are to be punished with few stripes. A strange way of putting eternal torment,
Greetings Yamahadx7,
Regarding:
The verse above that you quoted, takes place at the 5th trumpet. The reference to the inhabitants of the earth not being able to die is restricted to that trumpet judgment, not eternity.
Just because scripture doesn't say the those in the LOF verbally say they desire death doesn't mean that they don't wish that. However, regarding them scripture does say the following:
"They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
First of all, the word "torment" infers "to vex with grievous pains, which would denote that said torture as being on-going.
Then you have the words "the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever," which again would denote on-going torment.
This supported by the following verse which says that "they will have no rest day or night." One would have to be existing in order to experience torment without having "no rest" the word meaning "no intermission, no cessation" from said torment.
Then you have the following:
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Since the same word "eternal" is used to describe the same thing for both parties and we know that eternal life is on-going conscious existence in the joy of the Lord, then eternal punishment must also be on-going conscious existence in separation from God.
You can't have the word "Aion/eternal" meaning on-existence for one group and the same word meaning annihilation for the other group. They have to retain the same meaning.
If the above were truth, then the moniker "everlasting fire" would not be everlasting. Jesus fire is not quenched, meaning that it never goes out. There is no relief from it.
This above scripture is speaking about Adam and Eve eating the from the tree of life and living forever in those bodies and in that fallen state. Scripture makes it clear, that when a believer dies, their spirit departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord.
"Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. For we live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord." - 2 Cor.5:6
"For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body." - Phil.1:23
For the unrighteous who die, see the fate of the rich man in the event of the rich man and Lazarus - Luke 16:19-31
Eternal punishment in the lake of fire is eternal, as in, unending, no rest, conscious torment in flame. This is what scripture teaches.
Regarding:
The verse above that you quoted, takes place at the 5th trumpet. The reference to the inhabitants of the earth not being able to die is restricted to that trumpet judgment, not eternity.
Just because scripture doesn't say the those in the LOF verbally say they desire death doesn't mean that they don't wish that. However, regarding them scripture does say the following:
"They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
First of all, the word "torment" infers "to vex with grievous pains, which would denote that said torture as being on-going.
Then you have the words "the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever," which again would denote on-going torment.
This supported by the following verse which says that "they will have no rest day or night." One would have to be existing in order to experience torment without having "no rest" the word meaning "no intermission, no cessation" from said torment.
Then you have the following:
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Since the same word "eternal" is used to describe the same thing for both parties and we know that eternal life is on-going conscious existence in the joy of the Lord, then eternal punishment must also be on-going conscious existence in separation from God.
You can't have the word "Aion/eternal" meaning on-existence for one group and the same word meaning annihilation for the other group. They have to retain the same meaning.
If the above were truth, then the moniker "everlasting fire" would not be everlasting. Jesus fire is not quenched, meaning that it never goes out. There is no relief from it.
This above scripture is speaking about Adam and Eve eating the from the tree of life and living forever in those bodies and in that fallen state. Scripture makes it clear, that when a believer dies, their spirit departs from the body and goes to be in the presence of the Lord.
"Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. For we live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord." - 2 Cor.5:6
"For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body." - Phil.1:23
For the unrighteous who die, see the fate of the rich man in the event of the rich man and Lazarus - Luke 16:19-31
Eternal punishment in the lake of fire is eternal, as in, unending, no rest, conscious torment in flame. This is what scripture teaches.
The smoke of their fiery judgment shows the substance of life, the spiritual will never rise again to new spirit life.
They will go away to that eternal punishment, but the righteous will rise to new eternal spirit life because they are freely given a new spirit and a new heart that could never die ." God does not punish men because he choses not to have mercy on them . Truth without mercy will be show to any who do not have mercy by which we receive His gift of grace. The dead know nothing.
They will go away to that eternal punishment, but the righteous will rise to new eternal spirit life because they are freely given a new spirit and a new heart that could never die ." God does not punish men because he choses not to have mercy on them . Truth without mercy will be show to any who do not have mercy by which we receive His gift of grace. The dead know nothing.