Apostles, Prophets, Teachers,...

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S

Scotth1960

Guest
#21
:) Thank you for your kind words.

May Jesus bless you zone.
God bless you Ramon. Take care.
In Erie PA USA Scott R. Harrington
PS God bless you zone, eternallygratefull, phil36, Cleante, Zossima, and all of the rest, pneumapsuchesoma, zackabba, and all of the other posters on this CC forum. Take care! God bless all!
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
#22
Prophets & Prophecy
Chapter 15

Definitions
The verb "prophesy" means "to speak before" (from Greek pro, before, and phemi, to speak). The gift includes both the idea of foretelling and forthtelling, predicting the future and preaching. A prophet was God's mouthpiece: he spoke for God and gave His message. Sometimes that message was regarding the future. Other times it concerned the present, even the past, or simply doctrinal truth, but it was always God's message spoken forth.True

The Issue
Some controversy arises at this point. Today's renewed interest and investigation of the spiritual gifts has seen many non-charismatics redefine the gift of prophecy. The Charismatics, of course, readily admit the revelatory nature of this gift and claim its operation today. Some modern non-charismatics have defined the gift in another way, resulting in an interpretation which allows the gift of prophecy today but not in its revelatory sense. They say that the gift of prophecy means only the ability to speak forth for God, to preach; it is not necessarily, they say, a revelatory gift, but the ability to preach the truth of God's Word with great power and insight. Its pretty obvious what the gift of prophecy is, and it is seen all of the way through the bible. The deabate then is not what it is but whether it is still in operation today. Those that say it isnt do so because they havent experienced it usually, those that say it is usually are experiencing it, but even if they are, it needs to be handled according to the word of God. Like anything in the word, there are those that handle things poorly, or are out of balance or are just outright deceived, but then there are those who are in line with the word, and are operating in the Spirit. Its easy to discern true from false, simply by their fruit. But not just anyone can discern even, as this too is a gift of the Holy Spirit, and many have a false gift or tainted, or out of balance gift of discernment.

The issue can be stated in the form of two questions:
1) Is it Scripturally allowable to limit the gift to only forth telling (as opposed to predictive prophecy)? and, no - why would we or should we?
2) Is there in that forthtelling nothing revelatory? That is, is it merely the ability to expound previously revealed truth? This is not the gift of prophecy, this is the gift of teaching, understanding the word, and revelation etc. The Holy Spirit enlightens our understanding and reveals all truth to us, and it is He that reveals the written word and the living word Jesus to us.

So the question to clarify at the outset is one of definitions. The answer to this question will determine the course of the remainder of the study.

Evidence
First of all, it must be recognized that one who prophesies is a prophet not correct, all may prophesy, there is a difference between the office and gift of prophecy, all of the other offices -Apostle, teacher, pastor and evangelist can prophesy, although a prophet will function in the gift more powerfully usually. he saints(any believer) can also prophesy. It is not limited to the prophet only. This would seem obvious enough (no), but there are those who seek to support this idea of non-revelatory prophecy by making sharp distinction between these two -- a prophet being the one with the revelatory gifts and the one who prophesies being merely the preacher of previously revealed truth. This distinction is both gratuitous and impossible to demonstrate exegetically. One who teaches is a teacher. One who preaches is a preacher. And one who prophesies is a prophet. Bad way to define these roles, although the teacher does teach, for example, all who lead need to be apt to teach, its not as simple as a teacher teaches. A teacher may also prophesy, or encourage, or operate in the gift of a word of wisdom, or word of knowledge, or gift of healing. There is simply no evidence of any distinction between a prophet and one with the gift of prophecy. Yes there is, if one prophesies is prophesying, not necessarily a prophet, in terms of office. Although any manifestation of the true gift of prophesy is an expression of Jesus the Prophet.

Old Testament
There is no question or debate at all, among Bible believers, that the Old Testament prophets received direct revelation and were able to foretell the future. Their function, in part, was to reveal what God would do in the days or years that lay ahead. Their prophecies also dealt with matters of present concern -- what God willed for His people at that time. Yes, they spoke forth, from God. His message, revealed or spoken to them, whether that pertained to the present, past, or future. Prophecy is that ability, not necessarily the ability to foretell, although does include this. Their prophecies further concerned matters of doctrine: God revealed truth to them so that they, in turn, would "prophesy" Which is simply conveying a message, the word prophesy deals with the mechanism in its totality, ie. hearing from God, and issueing forth - conveying it. it to the people. There were also times when God would give revelation concerning the past, telling them about some event otherwise unknowable to them (similar to the gift of the word of knowledge in the new covenant, which is different to prophecy); Nathan's confrontation with David over his sin with Bathsheba well illustrates this fact (II Samuel 12:1-12). The fact is clear: the Old Testament prophets both foretold the future and forthtold God-given truth, but both aspects unquestionably involved direct revelation. Their prophecy, whatever it concerned, was clearly revelatory. Yes, the gift of prophecy, knowledge and word of wisdom are revelatory gifts, or gifts of hearing.

New Testament
Neither is there any indication of change in the character of New Testament prophecy, but rather its revelatory nature is clearly assumed. For example, when at His hearing before Caiaphas Jesus was spit upon and smote in the face while blindfolded, He was mockingly exhorted to "prophesy who it is that smote thee" (Luke 22:64). This prophecy would clearly involve direct revelation. When Jesus could tell the hidden past of the woman at the well, He was immediately recognized as a prophet (John 4:19). Agabas exercised the gift of prophecy in a predictive way: he foretold a coming famine and also Paul's coming sufferings (New Testament prophet, this prophet (Agabas) was not part of the "foundation" of Gods living temple, this is talking about the "Prophets" of the old testament, though prophets are a foundational gifting, and when building anything in Gods kingdom, prophets should be involved, as should apostles.) (Acts 11:27-28, Acts 21:10-11). I Timothy 4:14 informs us of the same regarding Paul's gift of prophecy: God told him that Timothy was to receive his gift by the laying on of hands; it was direct revelation. Ephesians 2:20 and 3:5 clearly associate the New Testament Prophets with receiving revelation directly from God, and that revelation is not necessarily regarding the future but rather doctrine. God spoke to people to in the testament, and continues today. The distiction is Old Testament/ New Testament. The new covenant ushered in a new way of relating to God through Jesus Christ, and it can be seen in the life of the early church. Just because the gifts seemed to stop relatively soon after the apostles died deoesnt automatically mean that they must have only applied to the aposolic age - the church went into apostasy, and fell away from truth resulting in years of dark ages and great evil - true christian were martyred as heretics in this time. but through the reformation we see, that things that were once lost were restored, and this has continued to happen with each new move of Gods Spirit, and continues to hapen today. We are stilll yet far from where God plans to take His church - she will be filled with the fullness of God. The latter temple - us - will be much greater than the former - Solomons, and just like every temple or sanctuary or tabernacle, when it was built and everything was in place, God Himeself filled the temple.

I Corinthians 12-14
Furthermore, it must be recognized that the only passage in the New Testament which treats the subject of prophets and prophecy in an exhaustive manner is I Corinthians 14 (in its context, beginning with I Corinthians 12). In this passage as well, the revelatory character of the gift is clearly present. In I Corinthians 12:28 prophets are ranked as more important than teachers. In I Corinthians 13:2 the gift of prophecy is explained as "understanding all mysteries and all knowledge." A "mystery," in New Testament terminology, is a secret, something unknowable apart from direct revelation. The underlying assumption is that the gift involved special revelation. True, God does nothing but first reveal it to His servants the prophets.

I Corinthians 14:1 states the theme of the entire chapter -- the superiority of prophecy to tongues. Verse 3 mentions prophecy but not in a definitive way; it only states the results of the proper exercise of the gift, namely, edification. Correct In other words, verse 3 explains exactly why prophecy is superior to tongues. The following verses expand that argument: prophecy is intelligible speech, and tongues is not; hence, prophecy is superior. And in that sense prophecy is associated with other intelligible speaking gifts, such as teaching (verses 6, 9).But its different to teaching, the common attribute here is that it is understandable, though both have very different functions Prophecy is in the tongue you understand, so you are edfied, tongues is in an unknown tongue, so you are not edified, unless there is and interpretation - another valuable gift of the Holy Spirit.
We operate in a spiritual kingdom, and so have giftings that enable us to operate in that kingdom.
In the following section of chapter 14 prophecy and tongues are associated in this very respect -- that they are both revelatory in nature (verses 26-30; cf., verse 2). Finally, verses 29 and 30 clearly demand that the gift of prophecy being exercised in the church of Corinth was revelatory; it plainly states that the prophecy was something "revealed." Exactly

Summary
It is clear enough that the gift of prophecy is not to be confused with the gift of preaching or teaching. That there is overlap between prophesying and preaching is obvious, but the difference is important: A preacher must take a text of previously revealed truth and seek to expound it, and his authority extends only so far as the correctness of his interpretation of that text. The teacher can also expound and teach upon propheticly received revelation from the prophet. It is very important that a teacher is prophetic also, a teacher that can hear, and understand what the Spirit is saying, not just limited to logic, and understanding gained by natural learning. But one exercising the gift of prophecy takes no such text but rather delivers a new text, as it were. He delivers truth revealed by God. His authority, then, rests in the message itself: it is the very word of God. A prophetic utterance is the word of God also, but for instance God can show a person prophetically His heart for another person, and maybe a picture, and a the prophet or prophetic person can interpret or convey the heart or intention of God toward a person. So its not necessarily a word for word verbatim. There is a clear differnence between the written, revealed word of God, and the prophetic utterance. Doctrine is set and needs to be based on the written word, the prophetic word will compliment, and be in line and be supported by the written word. Personal prophecy for example could not be added to the bible as inspired text, but it is personal to the person receiving the word, and will deal with issues in their own life, but will be in line with the Word, and the Spirit. It is God after all that is speaking to them God is as real today as He has ever been, and His sheep know His voice. He speaks to us today, in many was, one of which is prophetic utterance, from the prophet and prophetically gifted.

Accordingly, prophecy is ranked above teaching (I Corinthians 12:28). The closest anyone could come, today, to prophesying is not preaching, but simply reading Scripture ver batim. Garbage, who says??

The gift of prophecy was the ability to declare truth received directly from God, truth obtained by special revelation. The prophets were mouthpieces of God, speaking His word, to their world, regarding either past, present or future truth. They were men of inspired utterance. Yes, and they are today.




. .
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
#23
Prophets & Prophecy


The Importance Of The Gift
The gift of prophecy was very important in that it met a real and unique need of the early church. We are in greater need today, than maybe ever before, to hear His voice! They were at a loss without any of this new revelation yet recorded and available, so God gave His word "part by part" (I Corinthians 13:9) through these gifted men until that written Word was complete. I disagree Paul operated as prophet and apostle in the early church age, as did many in the church government. There would be letters of instruction to churches from him and others that have never been found, and no less anointed that the ones we have in the new testament. The majority of the early church revelation came directly out of understanding the old testament like never before, with unvieled eyes, becaus eof Christs coming. That was the basis of their revelation. The truth revealed to them was written for thousands of years in the old testament, but was not understood until the Holy Spirit being given to them in the new covenant. Truth was revealed to empower the church to LIVE with His LIFE and walk in ressurection POWER, on this earth. With eat and live by every word of God.

The prophets' importance also is seen in that, along with the apostles, they were the foundation of the church. Yes, the old testament prophets, and new testament apostles (or witnesses of Jesus, who actually saw and knew him, and sent to proclaim their witness) These are the foundation, of the temple of God. Jesus being the chief cornerstone - a foundation that can never be laid again, neither does it need to be! These apostles and prophets, their message, and their works are the foundation. This does not mean that the office of apostle and prophet and teacher, pastor and evangelist is not longer in operation. It just means that the foundation that we build apon is the foundation that has already been laid. But in look at and studying the early apostles and prophets we can see the way they function and how they fit in the body. They still function and fit the same way today, but no one in his or her right mind would try nto lay again the foundation of the 12 apostles, and the prophets, or to try and lay a different foundation - their witness is the truth that all other truth is built on. It is eternal. Upon the truth revealed through them, Christ's church is built (Ephesians 2:20). Accordingly, they are listed second in importance in I Corinthians 12:28.

The Validation Of Prophecies
I Thessalonians 5:19-20 commands the Christian to prove, or test, all prophecies.Yes. and to test the spirits. Not every spirit is of God. It takes discernment, and a thorough understanding of the written word and the heart, nature and character of God to judge prophecy. So more mature christians would be the best to judge hey? Like your leader? All prophetic words should be judged by a mature leader/s. But when you are good at this, you don't need a checklist lol . A person can bring a so called "prophetic word"from their own mind/ heart/ and intention and it not be from the Spirit of God at all. This can be discerned y someone with discernment, even if everything the so called "prophet" is saying, lines up with the written word. How? The apostles were able by their miraculous gifts to vindicate their own message, but no such provision was given the prophets. ?? Anyone can vindicate their own message, if they have enough wisdom. Paul was just great at it. He was tried and proven, his deeds showed a pure heart and no selfish motive, so he explained this when at times people questioned his validity as an apostle of Jesus Christ and seemed to think he was doing it for selfish gain - which was the motive of the false apostles of the time.

To serve as a check against men who would claim the prophetic gift falsely, others were given the gift of discerning of spirits (see chapter 16). This gifted person would stand up and pronounce judgment on a given prophecy, declaring whether it was of God or not. An example of this is given in I Corinthians 14:29 where Paul commands that after the prophets speak, "let the other judge." The message of the true prophet was absolute, but it had to be established that it was in fact from God. This was the function of the discerner of spirits. True, All apostles, past present any future will have strong gifts of discernment, as prophets should also. The gift of discernment is not limited to the apostle, again any christian can and should have it, but the degree of strength of the gift will be proportionate to the calling and purpose of the person with it. Not all gifts are equal. One may have a very powerful operation of the gift of prophecy or discernment, another may be very new to it. Its about gifts maturing with use.

There was still another check given to validate the prophecy: complete agreement with the apostles was mandatory. "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual," writes the apostle Paul, "let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord" (I Corinthians 14:37). Correct, any true prophet or apostle in pauls day would agree that what paul has said is genuinely from God. He was addressing an issue where false prophets were preaching against the truth, for their own gain. He was speaking about people coming in to churches he had established, saying the were prophets or apostles, but they werent. They were undoing the work paul had done, and so he was challenging them, and those that were being swayed by them to acknowlege whether what Paul said was of God or not - if its was, then it made it clear that what the false apostles were preaching WS NOT. This is the standard by which to "test the spirits" (I John 4:1). This test was final. If any man claimed to prophesy but was not in agreement with the apostles' teaching, that "prophecy" was not of God, no matter what else may have seemed to validate his claim. Agreement with the apostles was mandatory. All true prophecy will be in line with the written word. And will not conflict with the apostles teaching. obvious.

New Testament Examples
The gift is mentioned in all five New Testament lists (see chapter 2), but only a few New Testament prophets are mentioned. Agabus is one who had the gift. In Acts 11:27-28 he predicted a famine, and in Acts 21:10-11 he predicted Paul's coming sufferings, both of which came to pass as prophesied. (From this example it is clear that the gift of prophecy involved the ability to foretell as well as merely forthtell). Prophecy does not always foretell. Philip's daughters prophesied (Acts 15:32), but no details are given. They may or may not have been prophetesses. But probably were. Acts 13:1 mentions prophets and teachers in the Church at Antioch, although no details are given, nor does it say which men were prophets or which were teachers. Judas and Silas are designated prophets in Acts 15:32. Paul and the other apostles evidently had this gift as well (e.g., Acts 27:23-24). Yes, prophets were in operation throughout the new testament church, and still are today.

Their Demise
Several factors demand that the gift of prophecy is no longer given to the church.

1) The most obvious reason that the gift is no longer given is that there is no need for it today. HA HA HA! Who says!! You say this because you believe that the only purpose of the prophet was to receive the written word. This is not the only reason for the gift. It has a MASSIVE list of functions and purposes. And is a treasure in His church today. God has given a complete revelation which is altogether sufficient in all matters of faith and practice. Yes. But this does not mean that we are not meant to be empowered by Christs Spirit, and made alive with Him, and to do greater things than He did, and to operate and function in His power and not our own. The bible reveals to us Gods will, His Spirit enables us to LIVE IT, and empowers us to live in His strength, ability and likeness. His revealed word makes us alive and enables us to function in His gifts, by His nature and walk in the Spirit. This is a supernatural life. The prophets met a unique need of that first century church, before this revelation was available. The church today does not need any prophets to give new revelation, only teachers and preachers to expose it to the Revelation already given. This is your opinion only and is not supported by scripture. I disagree strongly lol.

2) No revelation is being given today (cf., chapter 13). No one today can add a verse to Scripture; no one today is receiving new truth.
We are living epistles, let everything we do be by the power of God! We do not add or take away from God's revealed word but declare it by His Spirit.
3) The prophets were the foundation of the church (Ephesians 2:20), which is now complete (cf., chapter 13). Old testament prophets yes. The Prophets contained in the Torah. As I said before, that foundation is laid. And we build apon it.

4) I Corinthians 13:8-13 specifically predicts their demise with the completed canon of Scripture. It never states that it is the canon of scripture, and I believe it speaks of the consumation of all things in Christ. After this world what is in part will be done away with because that which is complete has come - in this world, that which is complete has obviously still not come. With a complete Scripture, the other prophecies are useless. This is stupid, we are a relational body and it is with the gifts of the spirit including prophecy that we are built up into the fullness of Christ. Its not until we are the fullness of the stature of Christ that the end will come and prophecy, and healing and all of the other gifts will cease - because we will be whole and in no need of healing or encouragement.

Summary
Prophecy was an important gift to the church and still is and met a unique need in the early church, and still does but it is no longer needed or given. Who says..? It is needed and is still given, just not in dry, dead churches that reject the Holy Spirit. Its "partial" messages (I Corinthians 13:9) have been replaced by the complete Revelation. Which is again, talking about when Christ comes and we are glorified. Until then we live in a dark and evil, fallen world and the gifts of God are necessary and are the powers of the age to come - an age which has not come yet, and they are light in the darkness and we are equipped with the power of God to combat the darkness. And it is an honour to God and to Jesus for us to enter into and operate in everything that has been made available to us. Including the gift of prophecy, which i must say has served, along with Gods written word, to deliver me of much darkness and lead me to His glorious love. I am forever indebted to the gift, and the gift giver, Jesus Christ. The church today stands, then, at a great disadvantage without it.
. . .
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#24

what's your point Likelife?
unlike the NAR lovers, i'm happy to present the issue from all points of view.
but, if you HAVE TO BE A PROPHET or miracle worker, you'll see what you NEED to see.
carry on.
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
#25
what's your point Likelife?
unlike the NAR lovers, i'm happy to present the issue from all points of view.
but, if you HAVE TO BE A PROPHET or miracle worker, you'll see what you NEED to see.
carry on.

My point is that prophets and apostles, and all of the gifts of the Spirit are in operation today, and that the belief that they ceased because they are no longer needed, or because it is God's will that they ended back in the apostolic era, is totally and obviously incorrect. lol.

And a miracle is a miracle, Im a miracle, God still does miracles today, ive seen it with my own eyes, why wouldnt I believe? Miracles are all of the way through the word, and affected all of Gods people why would they cease, until that which is perfect is REALLY come, and there is NO MORE DESEASE. Ive prayed for the sick in Jesus name and Ive seen them recover, not because I was taught to, but because God moves with compassion, and He desires to heal His people. Its not about what i need to see (if your implying i have some deep need to be able to do miracles so that my self worth is heightened lol) Jesus came to me as healer, and saviour, and turned on the gift of discernment in me, and Ive seen much good done through the gift of prophecy, in my own life and in the life of others, and i thank God for it. Just because you dont see it doesnt mean its not real and not God, the bible massively supports all of the gifts and fruits of the Spirit being for today, and the scriptures that people try to use to deny it are clearly taken by fleshly men and perverted. The lord rejoices and the Spirit leaps over His word, when I read these interpretations of scripture it grieves me, and Im sure it grieves Him.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#26
My point is that prophets and apostles, and all of the gifts of the Spirit are in operation today, and that the belief that they ceased because they are no longer needed, or because it is God's will that they ended back in the apostolic era, is totally and obviously incorrect. lol..
lol.
only the signs and wonders crew believe this.
the church hasn't believed this for 1900 years.

this idea came in with the Latter rain crowd.

but WHO CARES!

And a miracle is a miracle,..
A miracle IS HEN GOD PERFORMS A MIRACLE BY SUSPENDING THE LAWS OF NATURE to PROVE it is He who has PERFORMED IT.

He performs Miracles for a REASON. not beacuse somebosy in church names it and claims it.

praying that someone gets well, and they get well is God answering prayer and His mercy and providence.

unless that person had one leg and miraculously another appears, it is not a MIRACLE.

God still does miracles today, ive seen it with my own eyes, why wouldnt I believe? Miracles are all of the way through the word, and affected all of Gods people why would they cease, until that which is perfect is REALLY come, and there is NO MORE DESEASE. Ive prayed for the sick in Jesus name and Ive seen them recover, not because I was taught to, but because God moves with compassion, and He desires to heal His people..
that's not a miracle.

it is God answering prayer and because "God moves with compassion, and He desires to heal His people"

is everyone healed? WHY NOT?

Its not about what i need to see (if your implying i have some deep need to be able to do miracles so that my self worth is heightened lol).
huh? you aren't able to perform miracles.
you weren't an Apostle, and you're not Christ.

Jesus .....turned on the gift of discernment in me
tell me what that gift is, and how you manifest it please.

and Ive seen much good done through the gift of prophecy, in my own life and in the life of others, and i thank God for it..
describe the gift of prophecy please.
has God given New Revelation through the people you mention?

are you referring to the other "revelatory gift",' word of knowledge'?

please give examples of people who have exercised this gift, what they said, and what the result was.

if the "word" or "prophecy" was not written down and added to canon or brought to the universal church, it's BOGUS.

Just because you dont see it doesnt mean its not real and not God,.
oh i see it.
and its NOT God. its MEN.they're just doing what Montanus did.

the bible massively supports all of the gifts....of the Spirit being for today.
no it doesn't.
it records the ACTS OF THE APOSTLES. AND YOU WEREN'T THERE.

the bible does however massively support people departing from the FITH and paying heed to doctrines of devils, and saying "Lord, Lord...did we not......"

and the scriptures that people try to use to deny it are clearly taken by fleshly men and perverted..
tsk tsk....so ready to deny what's written and recorded, so ready to dump the idea that god in these last days HAS SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON, THROUGH SCRIPTURE.

The lord rejoices and the Spirit leaps over His word,.
right.
but people found church services and preaching from the WORD BORING.

they heard of a NEW THING happening: God was pouring out His Spirit as the LATTER RAIN.
He was reinstituting the offices of Apostle and prophet.

He was revealing NEW THINGS to the special few.

when I read these interpretations of scripture it grieves me, and Im sure it grieves Him.
i KNOW it grieves Him that these NEW interpretations of Scripture are accepted by those He warned to REAMAIN FAITHFUL and keep His words.
it grieves him whn people CALL DOWN FIRE FIRE and impart strange fire to one another and end up rolling on the floor and getting DRUNK IN SOME SPIRIT, CALLING IT HOLY.
 
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L

Lifelike

Guest
#27
lol.
only the signs and wonders crew believe this.
the church hasn't believed this for 1900 years.

this idea came in with the Latter rain crowd.

but WHO CARES!



A miracle IS HEN GOD PERFORMS A MIRACLE BY SUSPENDING THE LAWS OF NATURE to PROVE it is He who has PERFORMED IT.

He performs Miracles for a REASON. not beacuse somebosy in church names it and claims it.

praying that someone gets well, and they get well is God answering prayer and His mercy and providence.

unless that person had one leg and miraculously another appears, it is not a MIRACLE.



that's not a miracle.

it is God answering prayer and because "God moves with compassion, and He desires to heal His people"

is everyone healed? WHY NOT?



huh? you aren't able to perform miracles.
you weren't an Apostle, and you're not Christ.



tell me what that gift is, and how you manifest it please.



describe the gift of prophecy please.
has God given New Revelation through the people you mention?

are you referring to the other "revelatory gift",' word of knowledge'?

please give examples of people who have exercised this gift, what they said, and what the result was.

if the "word" or "prophecy" was not written down and added to canon or brought to the universal church, it's BOGUS.



oh i see it.
and its NOT God. its MEN.they're just doing what Montanus did.



no it doesn't.
it records the ACTS OF THE APOSTLES. AND YOU WEREN'T THERE.

the bible does however massively support people departing from the FITH and paying heed to doctrines of devils, and saying "Lord, Lord...did we not......"



tsk tsk....so ready to deny what's written and recorded, so ready to dump the idea that god in these last days HAS SPOKEN TO US BY HIS SON, THROUGH SCRIPTURE.



right.
but people found church services and preaching from the WORD BORING.

they heard of a NEW THING happening: God was pouring out His Spirit as the LATTER RAIN.
He was reinstituting the offices of Apostle and prophet.

He was revealing NEW THINGS to the special few.



i KNOW it grieves Him that these NEW interpretations of Scripture are accepted by those He warned to REAMAIN FAITHFUL and keep His words.
it grieves him whn people CALL DOWN FIRE FIRE and impart strange fire to one another and end up rolling on the floor and getting DRUNK IN SOME SPIRIT, CALLING IT HOLY.

Lol. you are acting a little bit FREAKISH zone... lol. Wild woman.. lol. Why is it so hard to believe that God has restored Apostles and Prophets lol do you have a problem with the fact that He restored pastors, and evangelists a few generations ago? The whole tirade of manifestation you just displayed is entertaining, and shows clearly that you have no idea where Im coming from, or what I believe, and yes i could spend another hour going through your rant and addressing each outburst individually but I couldnt be bothered lol its not worth wasting my time on pharisees... and yes there are pharisees today lol. did you even ready through my answers to you post?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#28
Lol. you are acting a little bit FREAKISH zone... lol. Wild woman.. lol. Why is it so hard to believe that God has restored Apostles and Prophets lol do you have a problem with the fact that He restored pastors, and evangelists a few generations ago? The whole tirade of manifestation you just displayed is entertaining, and shows clearly that you have no idea where Im coming from, or what I believe, and yes i could spend another hour going through your rant and addressing each outburst individually but I couldnt be bothered lol its not worth wasting my time on pharisees... and yes there are pharisees today lol. did you even ready through my answers to you post?

ah yes.
C Peter Wagner's definition of the traditional Church: RELIGIOUS SPIRIT DEMONS. Pharisees.

if you need prophets and apostles, have at it. their gifts were partial, and for the laying of the foundation.

the NAR is laying a new foundation. if you choose to build on that: go ahead.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#29
David Wilkerson On Weird Manifestations

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrpW6Xctg8Q

notice Wilkerson's heart broken over these NAR preachers saying "put away your Bibles...it has NOTHING to say to you"

(incidentally...here's an example of a preacher (Wilkerson) using AN INTERPRETER since the message is in another "tongue").
 
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unclefester

Guest
#30
Lol. you are acting a little bit FREAKISH zone... lol. Wild woman.. lol. Why is it so hard to believe that God has restored Apostles and Prophets lol do you have a problem with the fact that He restored pastors, and evangelists a few generations ago? The whole tirade of manifestation you just displayed is entertaining, and shows clearly that you have no idea where Im coming from, or what I believe, and yes i could spend another hour going through your rant and addressing each outburst individually but I couldnt be bothered lol its not worth wasting my time on pharisees... and yes there are pharisees today lol. did you even ready through my answers to you post?
Let's cut to the chase, shall we ? How many blind people have you seen sight restored to ? How many lame now walk where you've personally witnessed the healing ? Any been raised from the dead in your presence ? Cancer patients, para's and quadrapalegics......how many healed in your town by being in the shadow path of one of your apostles ? Please....waist your time on a few of us pharisee's. Show us what we're missing. And provide some proof iffin' ya don't mind. Apostle's today would undoubtedly be doing like things to those of old, no ?
 
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Lifelike

Guest
#31
Let's cut to the chase, shall we ? How many blind people have you seen sight restored to ? How many lame now walk where you've personally witnessed the healing ? Any been raised from the dead in your presence ? Cancer patients, para's and quadrapalegics......how many healed in your town by being in the shadow path of one of your apostles ? Please....waist your time on a few of us pharisee's. Show us what we're missing. And provide some proof iffin' ya don't mind. Apostle's today would undoubtedly be doing like things to those of old, no ?

A very good friend of mine was cured completely from cancer, and another was a twisted mess and confined to a wheel chair at the age of 8 and was miraculously healed, straightened and has no traces of her desease today. People i know.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#32
A very good friend of mine was cured completely from cancer, and another was a twisted mess and confined to a wheel chair at the age of 8 and was miraculously healed, straightened and has no traces of her desease today. People i know.
that's awesome!
was the wheelchair person's healing instantaneous, and permanent?

is there a testimonial website i could refer to?

many people are cured of cancer - God answers prayer....i had a terrible affliction some years ago, and after much prayer it disappeared: i have cancer now, however, and perhaps He will heal me, perhaps He will not.

the question is: were these people touched by Apostles?

and is healing guaranteed in any way? is it part of the Atonement?
 
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unclefester

Guest
#33
A very good friend of mine was cured completely from cancer, and another was a twisted mess and confined to a wheel chair at the age of 8 and was miraculously healed, straightened and has no traces of her desease today. People i know.
By an apostle with the "gift", correct ? Or was it through the prayers of God's lesser peoples......those non-gifted, non-apostles ? BTW.....did your friend with cancer receive any type of treatment at all ? Do you believe that God uses medical professionals to heal as well ?
 
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Necto

Guest
#34
This church only just returned to his fortune, which she had in the beginning. Should we surprised that many of the gifts of the Spirit and yet to come so massively? Ministry of the apostles and prophets will be impeccably renovated.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#35
This church only just returned to his fortune, which she had in the beginning. Should we surprised that many of the gifts of the Spirit and yet to come so massively? Ministry of the apostles and prophets will be impeccably renovated.
since you have conveniently said we can not test false prophets or false doctrine BY THE SCRIPTURES, i guess its pointless to ask you to document your statement in the word.

i really have to wonder why people vehemently and persistently refuse to carefully consider what they believe and why they believe it:

"Lay aside your prejudices; listen calmly, listen dispassionately; hear what Scripture says; and when you receive the truth, if God should be pleased to reveal and manifest it to your soul, do not be ashamed to confess it. To confess you were wrong yesterday is only to acknowledge that you are a little wiser today; and instead of being a reflection on yourself, it is an honor to your judgment, and shows that you are improving in the knowledge of the truth. Do not be ashamed to learn, and to cast aside your old doctrines and views, but take up that which you may more plainly see to be in the word of God."

Charles Spurgeon
 
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unclefester

Guest
#36
This church only just returned to his fortune, which she had in the beginning. Should we surprised that many of the gifts of the Spirit and yet to come so massively? Ministry of the apostles and prophets will be impeccably renovated.

Kewl ! If it's gonna be REALLY massive, maybe I can be an apostle too ? Is there a course or sumpin' I should look into ? I saw a few guys on TV that just blew on people and they all fell down writhing and wiggling. Is this the stuff you're talking about ? It'd be fun to have that power. Sometimes being a christian gets kinda boring......if ya know what I mean.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#37
This church only just returned to his fortune, which she had in the beginning. Should we surprised that many of the gifts of the Spirit and yet to come so massively? Ministry of the apostles and prophets will be impeccably renovated.
Thats interesting. Scripture says at the end their will be a falling away, where many false prophets come is an impostors. and turn people from God. I see nothing about a great awakening and the return of apostolic signs and wonders. Where do you get this?
 
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Necto

Guest
#38
since you have conveniently said we can not test false prophets or false doctrine BY THE SCRIPTURES, i guess its pointless to ask you to document your statement in the word.

i really have to wonder why people vehemently and persistently refuse to carefully consider what they believe and why they believe it:

"Lay aside your prejudices; listen calmly, listen dispassionately; hear what Scripture says; and when you receive the truth, if God should be pleased to reveal and manifest it to your soul, do not be ashamed to confess it. To confess you were wrong yesterday is only to acknowledge that you are a little wiser today; and instead of being a reflection on yourself, it is an honor to your judgment, and shows that you are improving in the knowledge of the truth. Do not be ashamed to learn, and to cast aside your old doctrines and views, but take up that which you may more plainly see to be in the word of God."

Charles Spurgeon
You ask proof from Scripture. I'm not surprised thy requests. You and like you always check all through the Scriptures. You want to know God through Scripture but do not want to come to Him Who will lead you to the Scriptures. You know God through Scripture, but you do not know Him personally! You do not know Him as the Spirit, and so your knowledge through the letter and the written word is nothing!
 
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Necto

Guest
#39
Thats interesting. Scripture says at the end their will be a falling away, where many false prophets come is an impostors. and turn people from God. I see nothing about a great awakening and the return of apostolic signs and wonders. Where do you get this?
I get it from the Holy Spirit.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#40
I get it from the Holy Spirit.
Yeah, and how do you know it is the HS talking to you, and not satan or one of his fallen angels talking to you? How can you tell who is who unless you have the word to show you?

Scripture does not support your theory. So I must decline to believe the HS talked to you. God would not contradict his word or himself!