Are Holy Spirit baptisms claims provable?
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Ok so prima facie evidence is in effect to give a burden off proof?
So you are saying proof of the miraculous never ended or are you saying it ended how can you prove it.
If they say they can by evidence then that's not proof enough because you have not seen it or believe it to be true.
So are you a cessationalist?
So you are saying proof of the miraculous never ended or are you saying it ended how can you prove it.
If they say they can by evidence then that's not proof enough because you have not seen it or believe it to be true.
So are you a cessationalist?
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The faith comes by hearing the word of God, such as, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another; and so much more, as ye see the day approaching.( Hebrews 10:25)
The physical manifestation would be getting up Sunday morning, dressing, driving down to my church and faithfully participating as instructed in the word of God, week in and week out continuing faithfully. This is not something you find the natural man doing. Again, hearing the word; Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Tim. 2:15) Physical manifestation of the Holy Spirit would be the desire instilled in me by the Holy Spirit and to act on what was written in His word, meaning, sit down open my bible and begin to study. The natural man has little to no desire to know the things of God.
I'm not completely sure what you mean by manifestation of the Holy Spirit, however, if your looking for some kind of mystical supernatural experience to validate your salvation you might be searching in the wrong area, simply put, read God's word, believe it and trust that what He says is true. A simple definition of faith, believe God at His word. Exactly what sort of conformation or proof other than God's word would you need or want?
The physical manifestation would be getting up Sunday morning, dressing, driving down to my church and faithfully participating as instructed in the word of God, week in and week out continuing faithfully. This is not something you find the natural man doing. Again, hearing the word; Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Tim. 2:15) Physical manifestation of the Holy Spirit would be the desire instilled in me by the Holy Spirit and to act on what was written in His word, meaning, sit down open my bible and begin to study. The natural man has little to no desire to know the things of God.
I'm not completely sure what you mean by manifestation of the Holy Spirit, however, if your looking for some kind of mystical supernatural experience to validate your salvation you might be searching in the wrong area, simply put, read God's word, believe it and trust that what He says is true. A simple definition of faith, believe God at His word. Exactly what sort of conformation or proof other than God's word would you need or want?
I don't know what this sentence means.
Neither
Not sure about this sentence either but simply put Pentecostals are claiming that we are still living in an age of the miraculous as the one in the 1st century. If this is true what would the prima facie of this age look like today? Would not roofs be ripped off of churches, would not the world be turned upside down?
That would depend on your definition?
Neither
Not sure about this sentence either but simply put Pentecostals are claiming that we are still living in an age of the miraculous as the one in the 1st century. If this is true what would the prima facie of this age look like today? Would not roofs be ripped off of churches, would not the world be turned upside down?
That would depend on your definition?
You quoted prima facie "What prima facie is there to support this notion?
I assumed you knew what it meant.
You do to certain extent. But the burden of proof will be presented by both sides.
So on both sides, Miracles still happen today, if they do prove them, I prove them, show me the evidence, I have, I've seen the evidence but it's not true.
Having looked at your response it seems to me the issue is with Pentecostals and they do not have prima facie evidence for their claims and if they did what can prove that.
Cessationalist?
Do you believe that the miracles Jesus did, they the first church did have ceased and are not relevant today?
That's cessationalist thoughts.
I assumed you knew what it meant.
You do to certain extent. But the burden of proof will be presented by both sides.
So on both sides, Miracles still happen today, if they do prove them, I prove them, show me the evidence, I have, I've seen the evidence but it's not true.
Having looked at your response it seems to me the issue is with Pentecostals and they do not have prima facie evidence for their claims and if they did what can prove that.
Cessationalist?
Do you believe that the miracles Jesus did, they the first church did have ceased and are not relevant today?
That's cessationalist thoughts.
Habeus Corpus.
In Latin means have the body.
In today's law it basically means produce the body.
A writ that requires an imprisoned person to be bought before a judge to determine the legality of detention in prison.
What we know is that Pontius Pilate in effect says have the body.
Jesus died and no where in the Bible or on earth today is there evidence that says that a dead Jesus was not raised.
No prima facie evidence in the world but in Jesus day there was.
Jesus says
John 14:12
The Answered Prayer
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
In Latin means have the body.
In today's law it basically means produce the body.
A writ that requires an imprisoned person to be bought before a judge to determine the legality of detention in prison.
What we know is that Pontius Pilate in effect says have the body.
Jesus died and no where in the Bible or on earth today is there evidence that says that a dead Jesus was not raised.
No prima facie evidence in the world but in Jesus day there was.
Jesus says
John 14:12
The Answered Prayer
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.
1 Cor 13:8 gives three things that will change from the apostolic church when the NT is complete.
Joel describes that while the Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh dreams and visions are for Israel not for Gentiles.
Pentecost is the Jewish feast of the latter first fruits which refers us back to what Peter taught that day.
The Holy Spirit is ministering the word of God in men's hearts and bringing men to a saving knowledge of Christ. Much of what is received by the modern church on this subject contradicts scripture.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Joel describes that while the Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh dreams and visions are for Israel not for Gentiles.
Pentecost is the Jewish feast of the latter first fruits which refers us back to what Peter taught that day.
The Holy Spirit is ministering the word of God in men's hearts and bringing men to a saving knowledge of Christ. Much of what is received by the modern church on this subject contradicts scripture.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Depends on what you mean by that.
a)
The simple fact that Bible has passages about prophecy is not any kind of evidence that my claims to be a prophet are valid.
Such a logic woud make you prone to any cheater.
b)
If you mean that Bible should judge if today´s claims of Holy Spirit miracles are true ones, then I agree.
a)
The simple fact that Bible has passages about prophecy is not any kind of evidence that my claims to be a prophet are valid.
Such a logic woud make you prone to any cheater.
b)
If you mean that Bible should judge if today´s claims of Holy Spirit miracles are true ones, then I agree.
I think that if some says "this is what Holy Spirit does", he must have some evidence it is so. That it is not just a hypnotic state, power of suggestion etc.
The best evidence (in such a case) would be some medical records etc. Not just falling to the ground, sleeping there and then crying with emotions.
I meant something like this.
The best evidence (in such a case) would be some medical records etc. Not just falling to the ground, sleeping there and then crying with emotions.
I meant something like this.
J
Medical record huh? let me give that a try....
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patient name:Joefizz
Mental status-Joyous
Physical status-healthy
Spiritual status-Holy spirit filled
Diagnosis-Holy spirit intervention
------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------
patient name:Joefizz
Mental status-Joyous
Physical status-healthy
Spiritual status-Holy spirit filled
Diagnosis-Holy spirit intervention
------------------------------------------------------
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If you will break your leg, then go to some "healing sessions" with for example Benny Hinn and the leg would be immediatelly fixed, that would be something!
But such things never happened on his shows.
This is an example of what I mean. Evidence, not just "pain is gone" and other claims that are not provable in any way.
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A am not sure if we understand each other.
But such things never happened on his shows.
This is an example of what I mean. Evidence, not just "pain is gone" and other claims that are not provable in any way.
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A am not sure if we understand each other.
