Are Holy Spirit baptisms claims provable?

[so-jesus-e-deus]

Can any of us prove or disprove personal/individual claims of Holy Spirit baptisms?

The Holy Spirit's fruit is the proof that we have the Holy Spirit and are of Jesus:

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know the

 

[know1]

Can any of us prove or disprove personal/individual claims of Holy Spirit baptisms? Should such claims hold any weight in this forum?

Please note: I am speaking of personal or individual claims, not the biblical existence of Holy Spirit baptism.

That's like asking if anyone can prove the new birth.

"Should such claims hold any weight in this forum?"

Well, should it?

It's the same supernatural move of the Holy Spirit, only no tongues or special gifts.

I hate to be the one to say this, but that's a typical response from the doubting crowd, concerning divine healing, baptisms of the Holy Spirit, and miracles that have taken place in other people's lives.

You can't prove anyone is born again, and yet many of you believe it's true because some people got all emotional and teary eyed after saying the sinner's prayer.

Should their testimony hold any weight?

Personal testimonies are not for the doubting believers, but for the true believers. It is the sign that followed the believer.

Those who look for signs to prove or disprove what they believe is truth, regardless of what is written in scripture, has it in the reverse order.

That is what God calls the carnally minded.

Those who believe the written word of God is truth, and that God is faithful to perform that truth, the proof or signs of what they believe will follow.

If you don't try to make the bible line up with your failures to receive, such as, 'the miracles went out with the apostles', or 'sometimes God says yes and sometimes no', and the like, but believe what is written as it is written, then the signs or proof you might be looking for, will follow.

Because, IT IS WRITTEN, and that is all the immovable and unshakable proof/weight that we need.

 

[wolfwint]

That's like asking if anyone can prove the new birth.

"Should such claims hold any weight in this forum?"

Well, should it?

It's the same supernatural move of the Holy Spirit, only no tongues or special gifts.

I hate to be the one to say this, but that's a typical response from the doubting crowd, concerning divine healing, baptisms of the Holy Spirit, and miracles that have taken place in other people's lives.

You can't prove anyone is born again, and yet many of you believe it's true because some people got all emotional and teary eyed after saying the sinner's prayer.

Should their testimony hold any weight?

Personal testimonies are not for the doubting believers, but for the true believers. It is the sign that followed the believer.

Those who look for signs to prove or disprove what they believe is truth, regardless of what is written in scripture, has it in the reverse order.

That is what God calls the carnally minded.

Those who believe the written word of God is truth, and that God is faithful to perform that truth, the proof or signs of what they believe will follow.

If you don't try to make the bible line up with your failures to receive, such as, 'the miracles went out with the apostles', or 'sometimes God says yes and sometimes no', and the like, but believe what is written as it is written, then the signs or proof you might be looking for, will follow.

Because, IT IS WRITTEN, and that is all the immovable and unshakable proof/weight that we need.

" Because, IT IS WRITTEN, and that is all the immovable and unshakable proof/weight that we need."
Thats the point! F.e. personell testamonies:
In my Church one Member saw an RCC Easter Deal (Semana Santa) in Spain and found it very impressive in a positive Way. Another Member saw an RCC Easter Deal and was shocked about the spirituell Darkness she felt. Both have the Holy Spirit and they Saw both the same ceremonie. But the Impression for both we're Complete different. What the Bible says about it to pray to Saints and pray to statues?
Would you Now say both Witnesses have the same weight? Should we question the First ore Second Witness? And when Why?
F.e. the teaching about the baptism with the Holy Spirit as the pentecostal ore charismatic teaches I do not find in the Bible. And it was not taught Till the Year 1900. Is it then wrong to question it? Many millions Made the expierience with this Kind of baptism Worldwide. Is this the measure that it is right? Many RCC followers believe in the Miracles of Mary ore Saints ore even from wood ore Bones of death People. Are they right because of the Number who follow this believe?
The measure is, what is written, and not our expieriences ore Feelings, if they Support not that was is written.
It is written, that we have to distinguish the Spirits. Sometimes I ask myself Why many believers dont recognize the different between truth and the temptation to follow a wrong way.

 

[know1]

The measure is, what is written, and not our expieriences ore Feelings, if they Support not that was is written.
It is written, that we have to distinguish the Spirits. Sometimes I ask myself Why many believers dont recognize the different between truth and the temptation to follow a wrong way.

I believe the answer to that question is-

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Just because someone says they are a believer, doesn't mean they are.

You can discern the kind of spirit one has by listen to what they say.

Because they will be like the spirit in them.

Jesus said you shall know them by their fruit.

Look at their fruit.

 

[wolfwint]

I believe the answer to that question is-

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Joh 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Just because someone says they are a believer, doesn't mean they are.

You can discern the kind of spirit one has by listen to what they say.

Because they will be like the spirit in them.

Jesus said you shall know them by their fruit.

Look at their fruit.

You speaking from nonbelievers. I am speaking from born again christians.

 

[know1]

You speaking from nonbelievers. I am speaking from born again christians.

No sir, I am not, it is for both.

Nonbelievers and doubter, whether they be Christian or atheist, product bad or corrupt fruit, and believing Christian, produce good fruit.

Either way, good or bad, righteous or sinner, believer or doubter, you will know them and the spirit or tree that is in them, by the fruit they produce.

 

[wolfwint]

No sir, I am not, it is for both.

Nonbelievers and doubter, whether they be Christian or atheist, product bad or corrupt fruit, and believing Christian, produce good fruit.

Either way, good or bad, righteous or sinner, believer or doubter, you will know them and the spirit or tree that is in them, by the fruit they produce.

So, are bornagain christians Gods children? I believe that. But as bornagain you can be deceived by several things, among them through a false spirit. Thats why we have to test the spirit.
But to me it seems that not all have the gift to distingish the spirits. Otherwise I cant understand that an bornagain believer has no problems with the doctrine of f.e. the RCC.
And not less of people who claim to have the baptising with the Holy Spirit for to be empowered for the ministrie and speaking and singing in tongues have no problem to teach RCC doctrine, ore accept this doctrine as from God.

 

[know1]

So, are bornagain christians Gods children? I believe that. But as bornagain you can be deceived by several things, among them through a false spirit. Thats why we have to test the spirit.
But to me it seems that not all have the gift to distingish the spirits. Otherwise I cant understand that an bornagain believer has no problems with the doctrine of f.e. the RCC.
And not less of people who claim to have the baptising with the Holy Spirit for to be empowered for the ministrie and speaking and singing in tongues have no problem to teach RCC doctrine, ore accept this doctrine as from God.

Ask, and It Will Be Given
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

If you believe what is written, then according to the above verses, if you ask God for the truth to every doctrine, He will not allow you to be deceived with a lie.

What ever good thing you ask for, that is what God will give you.

He goes on to say that He will not give you something bad for the good you ask for, even as a loving father would not do give his child evil for the good they ask for.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

John agrees. The anointing will lead you into all truth, and not lies.

 

[wolfwint]

Ask, and It Will Be Given
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

If you believe what is written, then according to the above verses, if you ask God for the truth to every doctrine, He will not allow you to be deceived with a lie.

What ever good thing you ask for, that is what God will give you.

He goes on to say that He will not give you something bad for the good you ask for, even as a loving father would not do give his child evil for the good they ask for.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

John agrees. The anointing will lead you into all truth, and not lies.

Well, I believe that the Holy Spirit teaches the truth. But, how many bornagain christians have an different view and teaches different. We all claim that is the truth. Who is then wrong? Which of all the denominations is right? Which view is right? We all claim to have the Holy Spirit and are based on Gods word, but we come not to an unit meaning f.e. about the pentecostal teachings. Would the Holy Spirit not lead us to an unit view about it, if it is from Him?

 

[know1]

Well, I believe that the Holy Spirit teaches the truth. But, how many bornagain christians have an different view and teaches different. We all claim that is the truth. Who is then wrong? Which of all the denominations is right? Which view is right? We all claim to have the Holy Spirit and are based on Gods word, but we come not to an unit meaning f.e. about the pentecostal teachings. Would the Holy Spirit not lead us to an unit view about it, if it is from Him?

The Parable of the Weeds
Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

As I stated earlier, not all claiming to be a child of God, is a child of God. Please note that the tares are AMONG the wheat. That means they are going to look like the wheat, and act like the wheat, and talk like the wheat, and even think they are the wheat, but still not be the wheat.

There are many tare teachers out there who are not of God, but feigning to be one of His children. They will not be able to see or perceive the truth and they will not be able to teach the truth either.

I use the word of God for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, and so should you.

For me, if a person cannot accept what is written, as it is written, I question their salvation, because the person will see, understand, and believe things the way the spirit in them wants them to, because, as the spirit in them is, so are they, or so they will become.

The spirit of truth/God will lead you into all truth, and at the same time, a spirit of error/devil will lead you into partial truths, which is the same as error.

Again, if you ask God to show you the truth to a doctrine in faith, He WILL reveal it to you. HE PROMISED that He would. But you must ask in faith, NOTHING WAVERING, because God will not give you what you ask for, or anything, for that matter, if you don't ask in faith.

If you ask God to reveal a truth to you in faith, He WILL DO IT. It is a guaranteed thing, but you must start believing the promises of God, if you don't already.

If you or anyone starts adding to or changing that which is written, know that you or they have started on the path to error, and the truth will not be reveal.

If you hold a certain belief or doctrine as dear to you, like your own child, you will not be able to receive it either.

And once God gives you a revelation, it will be hard for others to knock you off of, or shake, your foundation.


We each have to seek God individually for the truth to be revealed to us.

 

[CS1]

2Pet 3:3-7'

3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


2Tim 2:1-7

1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.