are we actually Christians?
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Well, that thread was a hard read. I could never quite get what the OP was talking about. Now, I might be wrong, but from the title and the comments, it seems like he is saying he alone has figured out the gospel, and the rest of us are on the outside. That kind of reminds me of what Jesus said about the Pharisees.
"10 Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one teacher, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.13 “But woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You keep locking people out of the kingdom of heaven! For you neither enter nor permit those trying to enter to go in.
15 “Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You cross land and sea to make one convert, and when you get one, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves!" Matt 23:10-15 NET
So, not a teacher, not an expert in the law, but a hypocrite? He seems to think he has a new take on things. He doesn't know any of us, but yet he sets himself up as a teacher and leader and judges and condemns us on the basis of what popular preachers and Word Faith shysters are teaching? NOT!
So, my questions are:
Do you attend a church or fellowship? Because there is no such thing as a lone Christian in the NT.
Do you read the Bible in the original languages? Ok, probably not! How about just read the Bible in context? Instead of pulling out a few proof texts?
My advice is to forget just reading only the Bible and get some books on how to read the Bible. "How to read the Bible for all its worth" by Gordon Fee, one of the top Greek and Biblical scholars in the world. It's kind of basic, but it would be a good starting point for you.
The way you don't use Scripture much, and the way when you use it, you pull it out of context is very telling.
Ok, I'm done.
"10 Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one teacher, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.13 “But woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You keep locking people out of the kingdom of heaven! For you neither enter nor permit those trying to enter to go in.
15 “Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You cross land and sea to make one convert, and when you get one, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves!" Matt 23:10-15 NET
So, not a teacher, not an expert in the law, but a hypocrite? He seems to think he has a new take on things. He doesn't know any of us, but yet he sets himself up as a teacher and leader and judges and condemns us on the basis of what popular preachers and Word Faith shysters are teaching? NOT!
So, my questions are:
Do you attend a church or fellowship? Because there is no such thing as a lone Christian in the NT.
Do you read the Bible in the original languages? Ok, probably not! How about just read the Bible in context? Instead of pulling out a few proof texts?
My advice is to forget just reading only the Bible and get some books on how to read the Bible. "How to read the Bible for all its worth" by Gordon Fee, one of the top Greek and Biblical scholars in the world. It's kind of basic, but it would be a good starting point for you.
The way you don't use Scripture much, and the way when you use it, you pull it out of context is very telling.
Ok, I'm done.
So, NOT a Christian? And yet you sanctimoniously still try and tell us what to believe?
No, a few Scriptures doesn't do it for me! And that is all you have given. I've read the the Bible over 50 times, including in English, French, Greek and some German and some Spanish. I've also studied it deeply - that gives me, (or anyone else who has read the Bible over and over, in context) the breadth of background to understand what those proof texts actually mean.
And really, since you are unwilling to say you are Christian, because of some dubious doctrines you have invented, this conversation is really over. Because, no one here has the time of day to listen to a non-Christian, mumbling about revelations God didn't give him, because he is not a follower of Christ.
That is what a Christian is, right? A follower of Jesus Christ?
"Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." Matt 16:24
"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6
"But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death," Phil. 3:7-10
Aha! I figured you out. Works righteousness and a touch of perfectionism thrown in. How sad to be that close to the Kingdom of God, and yet be outside.
Because Christ did it all! We follow him, we serve him and yes, we obey him, and repent of our sins. But, justification is all from God.
"Therefore since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1 NASB
"Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," Romans 5:1 NET
"Δικαιωθέντες οὖν ἐκ πίστεως εἰρήνην [a]ἔχομεν πρὸς τὸν θεὸν διὰ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ," Romans 5:1 Greek.
Notice how Δικαιωθέντες (dikaiothentes) is thrown forward indicating it is the most important part of the statement. That doesn't really come through as strongly in English.
Δικαιωθέντες - "To justify, to declare to be in the right." Aorist Passive Participle, expressing antecedent time before the main verb (ἔχομεν - "we have" present active indicative 1st plural) Δικαιωθέντες could be either temporal or causal. Aorist points to a completed action. Theological passive indicating that God has done the action of the subject.
Which is to say, God does the saving, it is a finished completed action, our works have nothing to do with whether we are Christians. We are born from above by the Spiirt of the Living God. It is not about anything we have done, are doing, or will do.
"Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 NET
"Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all be born from above.’" John 3:5-6
The next stage after God saves us, is sancitification. That is where all these "works" verses apply. Except, even then, santicification is on-going, and it is being led by the Holy Spirit. We do cooperate with God. In other words, God saves us, then we follow him. And we follow with joy! No striving or trying to maintain our salvation, through any kind of works, no matter how good or Biblical.
You stand outside the Kingdom of God. Do you understand that the gospel is God? Do you understand that justification is solely a work of God? "Not of works, lest anyone should boast!" Eph.2: 9
Again, following Jesus is NEVER just about going to heaven. I agree you cannot say a sinner's prayer, put the "get out of hell" free card in your back pocket and go on your merry way. But, when God calls you, makes you righteous, or justifies you, you want to follow him forever. That is being saved. Following Jesus is something we do because we ARE saved, not to try and BE SAVED!
I think most of the long time members of this forum believe this, in one form or another. You have judged and condemned yourself, but not the people I know in this forum. They are trusting IN CHRIST for their salvation, not in themselves. Very sad you are so close, and yet so far from knowing God.
Aha! I figured you out. Works righteousness and a touch of perfectionism thrown in. How sad to be that close to the Kingdom of God, and yet be outside.
Because Christ did it all! We follow him, we serve him and yes, we obey him, and repent of our sins. But, justification is all from God.
"Therefore since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1 NASB
"Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," Romans 5:1 NET
"Δικαιωθέντες οὖν ἐκ πίστεως εἰρήνην [a]ἔχομεν πρὸς τὸν θεὸν διὰ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ," Romans 5:1 Greek.
Notice how Δικαιωθέντες (dikaiothentes) is thrown forward indicating it is the most important part of the statement. That doesn't really come through as strongly in English.
Δικαιωθέντες - "To justify, to declare to be in the right." Aorist Passive Participle, expressing antecedent time before the main verb (ἔχομεν - "we have" present active indicative 1st plural) Δικαιωθέντες could be either temporal or causal. Aorist points to a completed action. Theological passive indicating that God has done the action of the subject.
Which is to say, God does the saving, it is a finished completed action, our works have nothing to do with whether we are Christians. We are born from above by the Spiirt of the Living God. It is not about anything we have done, are doing, or will do.
"Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 NET
"Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all be born from above.’" John 3:5-6
The next stage after God saves us, is sancitification. That is where all these "works" verses apply. Except, even then, santicification is on-going, and it is being led by the Holy Spirit. We do cooperate with God. In other words, God saves us, then we follow him. And we follow with joy! No striving or trying to maintain our salvation, through any kind of works, no matter how good or Biblical.
You stand outside the Kingdom of God. Do you understand that the gospel is God? Do you understand that justification is solely a work of God? "Not of works, lest anyone should boast!" Eph.2: 9
Again, following Jesus is NEVER just about going to heaven. I agree you cannot say a sinner's prayer, put the "get out of hell" free card in your back pocket and go on your merry way. But, when God calls you, makes you righteous, or justifies you, you want to follow him forever. That is being saved. Following Jesus is something we do because we ARE saved, not to try and BE SAVED!
I think most of the long time members of this forum believe this, in one form or another. You have judged and condemned yourself, but not the people I know in this forum. They are trusting IN CHRIST for their salvation, not in themselves. Very sad you are so close, and yet so far from knowing God.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
aha figured you out you believe in your word not Jesus
Because Christ did it all! We follow him, we serve him and yes, we obey him, and repent of our sins. But, justification is all from God.
"Therefore since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1 NASB
"Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," Romans 5:1 NET
"Δικαιωθέντες οὖν ἐκ πίστεως εἰρήνην [a]ἔχομεν πρὸς τὸν θεὸν διὰ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ," Romans 5:1 Greek.
Notice how Δικαιωθέντες (dikaiothentes) is thrown forward indicating it is the most important part of the statement. That doesn't really come through as strongly in English.
Δικαιωθέντες - "To justify, to declare to be in the right." Aorist Passive Participle, expressing antecedent time before the main verb (ἔχομεν - "we have" present active indicative 1st plural) Δικαιωθέντες could be either temporal or causal. Aorist points to a completed action. Theological passive indicating that God has done the action of the subject.
Which is to say, God does the saving, it is a finished completed action, our works have nothing to do with whether we are Christians. We are born from above by the Spiirt of the Living God. It is not about anything we have done, are doing, or will do.
"Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 NET
"Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all be born from above.’" John 3:5-6
The next stage after God saves us, is sancitification. That is where all these "works" verses apply. Except, even then, santicification is on-going, and it is being led by the Holy Spirit. We do cooperate with God. In other words, God saves us, then we follow him. And we follow with joy! No striving or trying to maintain our salvation, through any kind of works, no matter how good or Biblical.
You stand outside the Kingdom of God. Do you understand that the gospel is God? Do you understand that justification is solely a work of God? "Not of works, lest anyone should boast!" Eph.2: 9
Again, following Jesus is NEVER just about going to heaven. I agree you cannot say a sinner's prayer, put the "get out of hell" free card in your back pocket and go on your merry way. But, when God calls you, makes you righteous, or justifies you, you want to follow him forever. That is being saved. Following Jesus is something we do because we ARE saved, not to try and BE SAVED!
I think most of the long time members of this forum believe this, in one form or another. You have judged and condemned yourself, but not the people I know in this forum. They are trusting IN CHRIST for their salvation, not in themselves. Very sad you are so close, and yet so far from knowing God.[/SIZE][/QUOTE]
aha figured you out you believe in your word not Jesus
