are we actually Christians?

[Angela53510]

Aha! I figured you out. Works righteousness and a touch of perfectionism thrown in. How sad to be that close to the Kingdom of God, and yet be outside.

Because Christ did it all! We follow him, we serve him and yes, we obey him, and repent of our sins. But, justification is all from God.

"Therefore since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1 NASB

"Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ," Romans 5:1 NET

"Δικαιωθέντες οὖν ἐκ πίστεως εἰρήνην [a]ἔχομεν πρὸς τὸν θεὸν διὰ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ," Romans 5:1 Greek.

Notice how Δικαιωθέντες (dikaiothentes) is thrown forward indicating it is the most important part of the statement. That doesn't really come through as strongly in English.

Δικαιωθέντες - "To justify, to declare to be in the right." Aorist Passive Participle, expressing antecedent time before the main verb (ἔχομεν - "we have" present active indicative 1st plural) Δικαιωθέντες could be either temporal or causal. Aorist points to a completed action. Theological passive indicating that God has done the action of the subject.

Which is to say, God does the saving, it is a finished completed action, our works have nothing to do with whether we are Christians. We are born from above by the Spiirt of the Living God. It is not about anything we have done, are doing, or will do.

"Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 NET

"Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all be born from above.’" John 3:5-6

The next stage after God saves us, is sancitification. That is where all these "works" verses apply. Except, even then, santicification is on-going, and it is being led by the Holy Spirit. We do cooperate with God. In other words, God saves us, then we follow him. And we follow with joy! No striving or trying to maintain our salvation, through any kind of works, no matter how good or Biblical.

You stand outside the Kingdom of God. Do you understand that the gospel is God? Do you understand that justification is solely a work of God? "Not of works, lest anyone should boast!" Eph.2: 9

Again, following Jesus is NEVER just about going to heaven. I agree you cannot say a sinner's prayer, put the "get out of hell" free card in your back pocket and go on your merry way. But, when God calls you, makes you righteous, or justifies you, you want to follow him forever. That is being saved. Following Jesus is something we do because we ARE saved, not to try and BE SAVED!

I think most of the long time members of this forum believe this, in one form or another. You have judged and condemned yourself, but not the people I know in this forum. They are trusting IN CHRIST for their salvation, not in themselves. Very sad you are so close, and yet so far from knowing God.[/SIZE]

aha figured you out you believe in your word not Jesus

Well, you made a mess of the quotes, I hope I fixed it so my quotes will be different than yours!

I post 3 quotes from the Bible, and exegeted part of Romans 5:1. You post no Scriptures at all. So, who is not afraid to post the words of Jesus? Do you think it is the one who never posts them, or the person who always posts them? It will be interesting to see what kind of lame retort you come back with.

And just so you know, posting Matt 7:24-28 or whatever, without the actual words shows me nothing. You can post 10 addresses of Scripture, and I am not going to look them up. If your hermeneutics is that sound, please post the actual words of Jesus, from the Bible (yes an address helps) then comment on them.

I would appreciate you answering Romans 5:1, in which I exegeted the Greek. If you disagree, then show it. Otherwise, it stands! I guesss this is where studying the Bible, both in English and Greek/Hebrew really begins to make a difference!

Or are you upset that I agreed with your assessment that you are not saved? I did not say it, but you! You do not get soteriology 101! And that is sad, to be so close to the Kingdom of God, and yet so far!

"When Jesus saw that he had answered thoughtfully, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” Then no one dared any longer to question him." Mark 12:34 NET

 

[shrume]

But, when God calls you, makes you righteous, or justifies you, you want to follow him forever. That is being saved

Was Demas saved?

Col 4:14) Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.

Phlm 1:24) Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellowlabourers.

2 Tim 4:10) For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

Were these people saved?

2 Tim 1:15) This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

Getting saved does not automatically change you, guaranteeing that you will always want to live as a Christian forever.

People get saved when they believe the gospel (Rom 10:9-10; Eph 1:13-14). The Christian new birth guarantees salvation. It does not guarantee that a Christian will always be on fire for the Lord, or even that he will always live as a Christian. That takes work, effort. Continuing to study, fellowshipping with other believers, renewing your mind, "fanning into flame" the gift that is in us (2 Tim 1:6) are all necessary if a person wants to stay "hot".

Also, God is calling everyone. He wants all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4). He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9). God makes a person righteous/justifies him when that person decides to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[justsomeone123]

Well, you made a mess of the quotes, I hope I fixed it so my quotes will be different than yours!

I post 3 quotes from the Bible, and exegeted part of Romans 5:1. You post no Scriptures at all. So, who is not afraid to post the words of Jesus? Do you think it is the one who never posts them, or the person who always posts them? It will be interesting to see what kind of lame retort you come back with.

And just so you know, posting Matt 7:24-28 or whatever, without the actual words shows me nothing. You can post 10 addresses of Scripture, and I am not going to look them up. If your hermeneutics is that sound, please post the actual words of Jesus, from the Bible (yes an address helps) then comment on them.

I would appreciate you answering Romans 5:1, in which I exegeted the Greek. If you disagree, then show it. Otherwise, it stands! I guesss this is where studying the Bible, both in English and Greek/Hebrew really begins to make a difference!

Or are you upset that I agreed with your assessment that you are not saved? I did not say it, but you! You do not get soteriology 101! And that is sad, to be so close to the Kingdom of God, and yet so far!

"When Jesus saw that he had answered thoughtfully, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” Then no one dared any longer to question him." Mark 12:34 NET

well if anyone else tells me to look up a scripture guess what I'm going to look it up I mean it's a scripture ....but then again I haven't read the bible 51 times right.....humble yourself and you will be praised and praise yourself and you will be humbled

 

[justsomeone123]

Well, you made a mess of the quotes, I hope I fixed it so my quotes will be different than yours!

I post 3 quotes from the Bible, and exegeted part of Romans 5:1. You post no Scriptures at all. So, who is not afraid to post the words of Jesus? Do you think it is the one who never posts them, or the person who always posts them? It will be interesting to see what kind of lame retort you come back with.

And just so you know, posting Matt 7:24-28 or whatever, without the actual words shows me nothing. You can post 10 addresses of Scripture, and I am not going to look them up. If your hermeneutics is that sound, please post the actual words of Jesus, from the Bible (yes an address helps) then comment on them.

I would appreciate you answering Romans 5:1, in which I exegeted the Greek. If you disagree, then show it. Otherwise, it stands! I guesss this is where studying the Bible, both in English and Greek/Hebrew really begins to make a difference!

Or are you upset that I agreed with your assessment that you are not saved? I did not say it, but you! You do not get soteriology 101! And that is sad, to be so close to the Kingdom of God, and yet so far!

"When Jesus saw that he had answered thoughtfully, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” Then no one dared any longer to question him." Mark 12:34 NET

I'm confused first you said I post no scriptures then you turn around and say you aren't going to look it up......contradiction and next not enough scriptures really from the beginning I'm saying read what the word of God has to say you know jesus the God your supposively serving.....aw yes which brings me you said serve god....ok well God says you can not serve money and God at the same time....of course you have already read this in Japanese or whatever

 

[justsomeone123]

I'm confused first you said I post no scriptures then you turn around and say you aren't going to look it up......contradiction and next not enough scriptures really from the beginning I'm saying read what the word of God has to say you know jesus the God your supposively serving.....aw yes which brings me you said serve god....ok well God says you can not serve money and God at the same time....of course you have already read this in Japanese or whatever

ok how about this Matthew, mark, luke, john

 

[justsomeone123]

is that enough now?

 

[justsomeone123]

and I never said god doesn't want us to go to heaven but he ain't forcing no one either....he gives us the freedom to choose but just because you saying you are going to heaven doesn't mean you actually are he will judge us on that....he does say that devil is deceiving and that's why we need to listen to him you know the way that he went most of us can say we don't know the way but HE is the way the truth and the life no one goes to our father except through him.....wolves dressed as sheep so how do you know if something is a Christian church and you can gather with them...woe unto you when all men shall speak well of you, for so did their fathers to the false prohets....Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.

 

[justsomeone123]

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

 

[justsomeone123]

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[justsomeone123]

oh ok so not just because you call him Lord means your going to heaven...but of course you know better than him

 

[mailmandan]

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

 

[justsomeone123]

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

key word believe.....if someone tells you "hey you my father sent me to save you don't drive down this road because there is a very big snake that will trap you " come this way follow me I will make sure you get to the other side and you look at him and say nah I'm good I will keep driving down this road....does that mean you believed him?

 

[mailmandan]

key word believe.....if someone tells you "hey you my father sent me to save you don't drive down this road because there is a very big snake that will trap you " come this way follow me I will make sure you get to the other side and you look at him and say nah I'm good I will keep driving down this road....does that mean you believed him?

To “believe in Him” in order to receive eternal is to believe/entrust our spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation.

 

[justsomeone123]

still same thing you must BELIEVE in him

 

[justsomeone123]

why is it so hard for anyone to believe in the word of God but will trust any religious leader's word especially the richer ones?

 

[mailmandan]

still same thing you must BELIEVE in him

Yes, BELIEVE IN HIM and not in works/self performance.

 

[justsomeone123]

christians have always me you know majority of the world is christianity compared to other religions....if that was a fact 1) there wouldn't be more vacant houses than homeless and 2)there wouldn't be so many people especially children in desperate need of food when the rest are overweight and still throwing food away and 3) there wouldn't be so many filthy rich religious leaders, christians while others so poor....the statement should be there is more claim to be christians in the world than any other

 

[mailmandan]

why is it so hard for anyone to believe in the word of God but will trust any religious leader's word especially the richer ones?

Sadly, many people trust in religious leaders to interpret the word of God for them and call that believing in the word of God.

 

[mailmandan]

christians have always me you know majority of the world is christianity compared to other religions....if that was a fact 1) there wouldn't be more vacant houses than homeless and 2)there wouldn't be so many people especially children in desperate need of food when the rest are overweight and still throwing food away and 3) there wouldn't be so many filthy rich religious leaders, christians while others so poor....the statement should be there is more claim to be christians in the world than any other

There are genuine Christians and there are “nominal” Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.

 

[MattforJesus]

christians have always me you know majority of the world is christianity compared to other religions....if that was a fact 1) there wouldn't be more vacant houses than homeless and 2)there wouldn't be so many people especially children in desperate need of food when the rest are overweight and still throwing food away and 3) there wouldn't be so many filthy rich religious leaders, christians while others so poor....the statement should be there is more claim to be christians in the world than any other

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity(love in action), I am nothing.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money,material,prosperity Gospel): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil(neglects the poor and needy,and love is the fulfilling of the law): which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1Ti 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart.

Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Tit 1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre(money).

Many claim to be a Christian,but it goes to show us how many people are not led of the Spirit,and are not a Christian.

There would be a whole lot more good being done if all who claim to be a Christian,actually were a Christian.

So it is how many people claim to be a Christian,not how many are Christian,for they are not all Christians.