Are we to resist ungodly government?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 26, 2014
392
4
0
#81
Look, I think it comes down to what the government is requiring.....concerning taxes...pay them....if it is something that contradicts the word...reject it.....like the disciples said..ought we to obey men or God.....!
How do you feel about your tax money going to support things that are directly in opposition to God?
 
Aug 26, 2014
392
4
0
#82
Well, let's try...Churches were being converted as a tool for the Reich, many Jews were already fleeing Germany, ...for a good reason. So my point is that there were plenty of signs happening so that Germany's hanky panky was not so secret
Perhaps the ones who could see what was going on were branded "conspiracy nuts" by their fellow countrymen.
 
I

Is

Guest
#83
In this country of the U. S. we are not supposed to have a dictatorship, but as of late it seems that is the way with our administration. The 1st amendment to our constitution gives us the right to protest our leadership in government. But, on the other hand, if we were under a dictatorship for real, there is nothing we could do concerning resistance. Yes, there is a difference, and soon (I truly believe) we will be under a dictatorship, especially those of us who protest corruption as we see it identified in scripture. Of course many religious teachers have made it a habit to make obsolete God's instructions that define corruption so the populous cannot truly identify it properly according to scripture.

We should have been protesting 70 or 80 years ago, but we were taught in our churches that we are not of this world and therefore the unconstitutional statement of "separation of church and state" is something that the church in general deems as being correct due to ignorance. Half truth makes a total falsehood. That's our adversary's tactics in every case.

In either case, the human race gets what they deserve by the righteous judgments of God which are inescapable. It's just a matter of time.

"I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." Isaiah 45:23

"For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God." Romans 14:11
John Conybeare, a seventeenth century English theologian wrote,

"We ought not to be carless and indifferent about the future. But as there are goods in life possible to be obtained, and evils capable of being avoided, so we should provide ourselves with proper means to obtain the one and escape the other....If we neglect our own interest, we deserve the calmaties which come upon us."

(Farrakhan, Islam & The Religion That Is Raping America, By Moody Adams, c. 1996)
 
I

Is

Guest
#84
Yeah those would have been the Germans caught up in the latest fads and fashions clueless to what the Third Reich was up to. I mean long before Hitler took power he laid out his clear feelings about the Jews in his Mein Kampf (my struggle).
Yep.

Mein Kampf has assumed a key place in the functionalism versus intentionalism debate. Intentionalists insist that the passage stating that if 12,000–15,000 Jews were gassed, then "the sacrifice of millions of soldiers would not have been in vain," proves quite clearly that Hitler had a master plan for the genocide of the Jewish people all along. Functionalists deny this assertion, noting that the passage does not call for the destruction of the entire Jewish people and note that although Mein Kampf is suffused with an extreme anti-Semitism, it is the only time in the entire book that Hitler ever explicitly refers to the murder of Jews. Given that Mein Kampf is 720 pages long, Functionalist historians have accused the Intentionalists of making too much out of one sentence.
 
I

Is

Guest
#85
but i hate paying taxes DC, GRRRR. and why do us poor folks have to pay so much and the rich have to pay so little? why are things always so backwards.
Because the rich have tax shelters and there are banks outside the US that know people are hiding money and help them anyway.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#86
Perhaps the ones who could see what was going on were branded "conspiracy nuts" by their fellow countrymen.
actually it was the nazi regime that was promoting conspiracy theories...
 
Aug 26, 2014
392
4
0
#87
actually it was the nazi regime that was promoting conspiracy theories...
You missed my point entirely. The U.S. government is often up to no good, yet we swallow whatever the corporate news media dishes up and we rarely pause to think. If we do, the crowd will shout "conspiracy theorist!"
Perhaps the same mentality applied to Nazi Germany.

Thanks for the ellipsis at the end of your sentence. Snark helps.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#88
Yep.

Mein Kampf has assumed a key place in the functionalism versus intentionalism debate. Intentionalists insist that the passage stating that if 12,000–15,000 Jews were gassed, then "the sacrifice of millions of soldiers would not have been in vain," proves quite clearly that Hitler had a master plan for the genocide of the Jewish people all along. Functionalists deny this assertion, noting that the passage does not call for the destruction of the entire Jewish people and note that although Mein Kampf is suffused with an extreme anti-Semitism, it is the only time in the entire book that Hitler ever explicitly refers to the murder of Jews. Given that Mein Kampf is 720 pages long, Functionalist historians have accused the Intentionalists of making too much out of one sentence.
Here are some short excerpts from Mein Kampf which them alone should have raised eyebrows in Germany...

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/kampf.html
 
Last edited:

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#89
How do you feel about your tax money going to support things that are directly in opposition to God?
Not good but Scripture tells us to render to Caesar etc., and in those days the government was pretty debauched as well.
So, I pay taxes, but God holds accountable how others spend it.

Heck, I'm not even in agreement how some churches spend the offerings...again, they have to answer to God, and so do I.
 
H

hind_let_loose

Guest
#90
All Christians agree that we are required to disobey laws that require us to sin. Presumably, in disobeying these laws, we are hoping that enough people will disobey them that they are either no longer enforced or that they are changed. This suggests that one of the objectives of this kind of civil disobedience is to change a law (or how it is enforced). This qualifies as a type of political activism -- albeit limited to cases where a law requires us to sin.

But things are rather complicated when we consider when, exactly, it is that a law (or legal/political system) requires us to sin.

For instance, there may be no particular law that requires you to sin, but a system of laws or government that makes you complicit in sin. For example, consider all of the infrastructure, bureaucracies, private corporations, etc., that had to participate in a system that lead to the Holocaust. Many, many people participated in this system. Now, supposing that some of these people had enough knowledge of the nature and ends of this political system, certainly any activities of theirs that constituted a clear, positive contribution to the success of the then-existing fascist, nazi political system would have been evil for them, no? I'm hard-pressed to think that it wouldn't be. So, this may mean that a different kind of civil resistance is required of us. In particular, we aren't just required to disobey evil laws, but we are required to abstain from participation in political systems with sufficiently sinister ends. Practically, this may mean that we would be required to quit certain government or corporate jobs, disregard certain bureaucracies when conducting business, withholding certain taxes, etc., with the aim of bringing down the system.

But things get even more complicated when we consider that we can sin through omission. Suppose, for instance, that we have it in our power to prevent some gross evil but don't. I like the example of a doctor who hears pneumonia in the lungs, yet keeps this a secret and doesn't prescribe the necessary antibiotics to treat it. If the patient dies, the doctor is guilty of murder. Similarly, if a judge is in a position to actively overturn an evil judicial precedent but doesn't, he is guilty of sin. Or if he fails to withhold a marriage license from parties that aren't qualified for marriage, then he sins. A person in Hitler's security detail, e.g., may have had an obligation to take a shot at Hitler when he was vulnerable. So, through omitting to take the shot, he may have sinned. Etc.

The point, here, is simple: If Christians must resist government when government requires them to sin, then the extent of that resistance reaches beyond what most Christians today think of. It isn't just sinful laws that we must resist. It is sinful systems, sinful abstention of opposing evil when it is within your power (and position) to prevent it, and more.
 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
251
0
#91
but i hate paying taxes DC, GRRRR. and why do us poor folks have to pay so much and the rich have to pay so little? why are things always so backwards.
The rich have always bought politicians who in turn make laws favoring the rich. That was bad enough, but now we also have politicians buying the votes of the poor, thus we have the poor and the rich being catered to while the working man carries the load.

My parasitic brother is three times stronger than the average man yet decided 15 years ago he didn't want to work anymore so he put in for disability and was erroneously awarded it because its another vote for democrats. That's how the game is played. He just bought a house in Florida, fishes everyday, is given more each year than I make working full time and he receives free health care.
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#93
In our form of Government ..we (the people) are the supposed to be the governing Authority ..ordained by God

If we give that power away we commit sin in my view.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#96
The rich have always bought politicians who in turn make laws favoring the rich. That was bad enough, but now we also have politicians buying the votes of the poor, thus we have the poor and the rich being catered to while the working man carries the load.

My parasitic brother is three times stronger than the average man yet decided 15 years ago he didn't want to work anymore so he put in for disability and was erroneously awarded it because its another vote for democrats. That's how the game is played. He just bought a house in Florida, fishes everyday, is given more each year than I make working full time and he receives free health care.
the rich havent always bought politicians. if you read into it you will see there was very little political lobbying 50-75 yrs back. whats changed? women. blacks. working men and poor folks had no right to vote.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#97
You missed my point entirely. The U.S. government is often up to no good, yet we swallow whatever the corporate news media dishes up and we rarely pause to think. If we do, the crowd will shout "conspiracy theorist!"
Perhaps the same mentality applied to Nazi Germany.

Thanks for the ellipsis at the end of your sentence. Snark helps.
and you missed the point of my response...the people nowdays who have an affinity for conspiracy theories would have -loved- hitler if they were around back then...those who rejected hitler would have been the ones being accused of swallowing whatever 'the jews' say without thinking...
 
Aug 26, 2014
392
4
0
#98
and you missed the point of my response...the people nowdays who have an affinity for conspiracy theories would have -loved- hitler if they were around back then...those who rejected hitler would have been the ones being accused of swallowing whatever 'the jews' say without thinking...
That's speculation, since you didn't live under Nazi rule.
People who have a predilection for conspiracy theories tend not to trust government. Why would they have loved Hitler and his Third Reich?