Are you saved if you are not obedient?

[eternally-gratefull]

People in the church are not the one's saying you earn your salvation by doing good things. I have only ever heard unsaved people who have no affiliation with any church and who are outside of religion say this. Honest.

Anyone who says we must maintain salvation by our works or it can be lost is saying one must earn salvation. it is no different than saying you must do it before you are saved, or after to maintain salvation, the end result is salvation is earned by works in both cases

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Was he characterized by his obedience, or for his disobedience?

FAITH. He was actually quite disobedient. He had many wives until he died.

 

[Ralph-]

Deal with the verses in question please.

Matt 7 and the verses in question are those who thought they were obedient. They did 'good' works, even in His name. And the Lord said they practiced lawlessness and he never knew them.

They missed something. Trusting in Christ and HIS work.

If we are not saved, we CANNOT do good works. Because good/divine works require the Holy Spirit.

Don't try to be saved by your evidence or obedience to how he lived or His morality. None can measure up. He offered you a way out of that mess........take it! Acts 16:31.

And a side note......many fall into the trap that they need to clean up the flesh and never truly are Spirit filled and walking in the Spirit. Does not mean they are not saved though.

But we will not advance as believers and grow in His grace and knowledge if we think that our job is to clean up our flesh.

Be filled with the Spirit and walk in the Spirit.

You are showing me you do not know anything. Serious. You've completely missed the Christian faith. It's going to be tough to bring you up to speed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are showing me you do not know anything. Serious. You've completely missed the Christian faith. It's going to be tough to bring you up to speed.

Your not going to win any battles attacking people.. All your going to do is sound arrogant, and lose any credibility of being a man of God./

 

[Ralph-]

FAITH. He was actually quite disobedient. He had many wives until he died.

Divorce and having more than one wife was allowed during the first covenant.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Divorce and having more than one wife was allowed during the first covenant.

Adultry was a sin, in all covenants.

God gave it to them because they were going to do it anyway, And in no way was more than one wife allowed. Even if divorce was granted, a man or woman was to remain single.

David was a murderer.

 

[Ralph-]

Anyone who says we must maintain salvation by our works or it can be lost is saying one must earn salvation. it is no different than saying you must do it before you are saved, or after to maintain salvation, the end result is salvation is earned by works in both cases

Why do Romans 7 people always hear the Biblical argument that obedience is the sign of the born again person as one trying to earn their own salvation? Just so you know, this makes me think all the more that person is not born again. Being defensive about obedience, living in the bondage of Romans 7 sin, and always harping on earning salvation all make me think I'm probably talking to a 'water only' believer. They have yet to come into the Spirit in a born again experience. That doesn't mean they never will. It just means that's where they're at right now.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do Romans 7 people always hear the Biblical argument that obedience is the sign of the born again person as one trying to earn their own salvation. Just so you know, this makes me think all the more that person is not born again. Being defensive about obedience, living in the bondage of Romans 7 sin, and always harping on earning salvation all make me think I'm probably talking to a 'water only' believer. They have yet to come into the Spirit in a born again experience. That doesn't mean they never will. It just means that's where they're at right now.

Nope. Romans 7 people preach obedience, We disciple young christians on how to be even more obedient, and we help God change their lives and help them with their weekenesses.

What we appose is people who claim obedience is required to maintain salvation.

You only hear what you want to hear, and then you attack people as unlearned.. I fear you have been indoctrinated to the point you can not hear what anyone says.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do Romans 7 people always hear the Biblical argument that obedience is the sign of the born again person as one trying to earn their own salvation? Just so you know, this makes me think all the more that person is not born again. Being defensive about obedience, living in the bondage of Romans 7 sin, and always harping on earning salvation all make me think I'm probably talking to a 'water only' believer. They have yet to come into the Spirit in a born again experience. That doesn't mean they never will. It just means that's where they're at right now.

ps. I am not a romans 7 person. I am a bible person. I take it all. Not just parts I want.. and then excuse the parts I do not like away.

 

[Ralph-]

Adultry was a sin, in all covenants.

God gave it to them because they were going to do it anyway, And in no way was more than one wife allowed. Even if divorce was granted, a man or woman was to remain single.

David was a murderer.

No way? You don't know the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No way? You don't know the law.

No my friend, You do not know the law.

The law says thou shalt not commit adultry. That is set in stone, and anyone who commited it was breaking the law (david and all his wives)

Later a provision was added which granted divorce, But not because God wanted to. But to protect women who were being put aside. He allowed divorce in certain conditions. Like adultry,

 

[Mercy4u]

You seem to miss the fact that these people were not boasting of works of the law.

That is exactly my point. How can that not be seen?

They boasted of their ministry work and their association with Christ, not their lawful behavior.

That is exactly my point. How can that not be seen?

And it is exactly the point of the verse.

We can boast all we want about how well we followed Him, followed His example, followed His ANYTHING. But if we have never truly trusted in His work for us for our salvation , we are LAWLESS. Working 'good'(which is evil) from our flesh.

 

[preacher4truth]

People in the church are not the one's saying you earn your salvation by doing good things.

Oh, but they are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is exactly my point. How can that not be seen?


That is exactly my point. How can that not be seen?

And it is exactly the point of the verse.

We can boast all we want about how well we followed Him, followed His example, followed His ANYTHING. But if we have never truly trusted in His work for us for our salvation , we are LAWLESS. Working 'good'(which is evil) from our flesh.

Amen,. Not of works lest anyone should boast. Quite clear. Not of works, means not of works, any works, Paul did not mention eth law. He meant any works.

 

[Galatea]

Was he characterized by his obedience, or for his disobedience?

Which one? And how much disobedience is too much disobedience? Where is the line. Peter was constantly screwing up, as was David. If nothing else, David numbered the people and caused a plague by being disobedient.

 

[Ralph-]

ps. I am not a romans 7 person. I am a bible person. I take it all. Not just parts I want.. and then excuse the parts I do not like away.

If you say you are in the bondage of sin like Paul was in Romans 7 then you are a Romans 7 person. You have yet to come into the Romans 8 answer to that bondage of sin. The answer is not that God gives you his Spirit and it's okay now. The answer is he gives you his Spirit so that you can not be in bondage to sin anymore.

 

[Ralph-]

Which one? And how much disobedience is too much disobedience? Where is the line. Peter was constantly screwing up, as was David. If nothing else, David numbered the people and caused a plague by being disobedient.

Were they in bondage to sin? Did they act like they did before they walked with God? Were they indistinguishable from those who did not walk with God?

 

[Ralph-]

Oh, but they are.

Nope. You are probably among the many who confuse people saying obedience is the sign of being born again with saying they earn their salvation by their obedience.

 

[preacher4truth]

If you say you are in the bondage of sin like Paul was in Romans 7 then you are a Romans 7 person.

Paul wasn't in the bondage of sin in Romans 7. You're also calling another here lost.

 

[Galatea]

Were they in bondage to sin? Did they act like they did before they walked with God? Were they indistinguishable from those who did not walk with God?

The difference between the saved and the unsaved: saved people will eventually get out of disobedience. It may be years. Or, if they do not voluntarily get out of disobedience, God will take them home- like Annanias and Sapphira or the people having orgies at the Agape feasts in Corinthians.

You can not say “so and so is a drunk- so must not be saved”. Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart.