At what point 'blasphemy?'

[GreenNnice]

When does the 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit' git ya ?

Sorry, I am being a bit glib there in my wording, but, trust me, Christ peeps, this is a dead-serious question to ya

What is denying Christ, which is 'blasphemy' defined (personified?)?

Maybe, a definition is in order. Oh wait, I just did

 

[zone]

When does the 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit' git ya ?

Sorry, I am being a bit glib there in my wording, but, trust me, Christ peeps, this is a dead-serious question to ya

What is denying Christ, which is 'blasphemy' defined (personified?)?

Maybe, a definition is in order. Oh wait, I just did

that's one definition.
but it's not the accurate one.

this is:

"Naturally, Jesus did sometimes pretend to respect the Law, but whenever he thought he could get away with it, he turned right around and broke that same Law. In Matthew 5:17-19, he declared that he came to fulfill the Law, and in Matthew 23:1-3 he defended the authority of the rabbis. But the rest of the time, he rebelled against the Law—thus showing that his occasional words of piety were meant only to hide his evil agenda. The following sins of Jesus are recorded in the "New Testament":

Jesus repudiated the laws of kosher food (Mark 7:18-19). [Compare this to the prophet Daniel's strict adherence to kashrus, in Daniel chapter 1.]

He repudiated the laws of honoring one's parents, and called on his followers to hate their parents; he also dishonored his own mother (Matthew 10:34-36; Matthew 12:46-50; Luke 14:26).

He violated the Sabbath by picking grain, and incited his disciples to do the same (Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-26).

4) He again violated the Sabbath by healing a man's arm, which was not a matter of saving a life, and he openly defied the rabbis in his total repudiation of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:9-13; Mark 3:1-5). [Compare this to G-d's view of violating the Sabbath, in Numbers 15:32-36, Nehemiah 10:30-32, and dozens of other places throughout the Bible.]

Jesus brazenly defied and disobeyed the rabbis of the Sanhedrin, repudiating their authority (This is recorded in many places throughout the New Testament, but look especially at Matthew 23:13-39 and John 8:44-45).

The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":

He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).

He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).

He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh—which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b)."

Who Was Jesus? < click

 

[kenisyes]

Sin is anything that cuts you off from any part of the blessings God wants to give you. God gives you many things through the Holy Spirit, and normally no other way. Blaspheming the HS is saying "this is not the HS doing this". If you say that, and mean it, and act on it, you cut yourself off from that blessing. That makes it a sin. Unlike other sins, there is often no easy way for God to work around it, since the HS is the source of that particular blessing. That's what Jesus means by "unforgiveable sin".

 

[CDavid]

When does the 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit' git ya ?

Sorry, I am being a bit glib there in my wording, but, trust me, Christ peeps, this is a dead-serious question to ya

What is denying Christ, which is 'blasphemy' defined (personified?)?

Maybe, a definition is in order. Oh wait, I just did

Perhaps the best way to define such words is, rather than looking to a dictionary, encyclopedia, concordance, wikipedia, or any other recourse written by men, look to the Bible and allow the word of God to define itself.

When we read the Bible and observe the context and application in which a word is used, a definition for the word becomes more obvious. I guess, it might be well to remember that words often have more than one meaning. And in such a case, it might just be that in some applications more than one, or perhaps all the different meanings apply. For example, when Jesus was pleading with the disciples to abide (John Chap 15), did He mean abide as in; live in (abide in this house); live up to or fulfill (abide by the terms of a contract); comply with or obey (abide by or with the law). In this case, I tend to believe that for a fuller understanding all three meanings apply; giving a fuller meaning to the Gospel.

Using the same approach for the word in question; blasphemy, and referring to some NT examples a definition can appear. [FONT=&quot]Luke 5:21[/FONT]
20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. 21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?


In this verse the Pharisees, who were experts on the law, are saying that the act of claiming to have powers that belong to God alone defines blasphemy against God.
Could it be said then that claiming to have powers that belong to the Holy Ghost alone would be a blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.


[FONT=&quot]Mark 14:64[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? 62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. 63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses? 64 Ye have heard the blasphemy:


Here the high priest gives another definition for the word. In this application, by claiming to be the Son of God, Jesus is claiming to be a deity like God, making Himself a god. For this Jesus was charged with the crime of blasphemy against the most high God, and ultimately executed.
Based on this definition, would it be correct to say that anyone who claims to be the Holy Ghost or equal to Him is guilty of blaspheming the Holy Ghost.


In Matthew Chap. 12 there is a lengthy story in which Jesus provides another meaning for the word blasphemy. In this story the Pharisees accuse Jesus of expelling demons by the power of Beelzebub. In His chastisement of the Pharisees Jesus made it clear that, by giving Satan the credit for the work of the Holy Ghost, or crediting the Holy Ghost with doing evil, is to blaspheme the Holy Ghost.


Which definition is correct? I think they all are. They say there's more than one way to skin a cat. I don't know why anyone would want to do that. I think there's more than one way to blaspheme the Holy Ghost. And, I wouldn't want to do that either.



Mark 3:28-30


[FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]28 w "Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 "but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation" - 30 because they x said, "He has an unclean spirit. [/FONT]

 

[Graybeard]

Sin is anything that cuts you off from any part of the blessings God wants to give you. God gives you many things through the Holy Spirit, and normally no other way. Blaspheming the HS is saying "this is not the HS doing this". If you say that, and mean it, and act on it, you cut yourself off from that blessing. That makes it a sin. Unlike other sins, there is often no easy way for God to work around it, since the HS is the source of that particular blessing. That's what Jesus means by "unforgiveable sin".

if that is true (which I agree) then a LOT of people here are in BIG trouble.

 

[oOfallen_angelOo]

that's one definition.
but it's not the accurate one.

this is:

"Naturally, Jesus did sometimes pretend to respect the Law, but whenever he thought he could get away with it, he turned right around and broke that same Law. In Matthew 5:17-19, he declared that he came to fulfill the Law, and in Matthew 23:1-3 he defended the authority of the rabbis. But the rest of the time, he rebelled against the Law&#8212;thus showing that his occasional words of piety were meant only to hide his evil agenda. The following sins of Jesus are recorded in the "New Testament":

Jesus repudiated the laws of kosher food (Mark 7:18-19). [Compare this to the prophet Daniel's strict adherence to kashrus, in Daniel chapter 1.]

He repudiated the laws of honoring one's parents, and called on his followers to hate their parents; he also dishonored his own mother (Matthew 10:34-36; Matthew 12:46-50; Luke 14:26).

He violated the Sabbath by picking grain, and incited his disciples to do the same (Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-26).

4) He again violated the Sabbath by healing a man's arm, which was not a matter of saving a life, and he openly defied the rabbis in his total repudiation of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:9-13; Mark 3:1-5). [Compare this to G-d's view of violating the Sabbath, in Numbers 15:32-36, Nehemiah 10:30-32, and dozens of other places throughout the Bible.]

Jesus brazenly defied and disobeyed the rabbis of the Sanhedrin, repudiating their authority (This is recorded in many places throughout the New Testament, but look especially at Matthew 23:13-39 and John 8:44-45).

The Talmud (Babylonian edition) records other sins of "Jesus the Nazarene":

He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a).

He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a).

He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh&#8212;which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b)."

Who Was Jesus? < click

What terrible mutilation of bible verses and Jesus Christ.

Jesus could not adhere to any other spiritual laws, but that of God. Many of the people of the Sahhedrin and what not, actually did not follow God's laws correctly and thus ridiculed Jesus who did follow them correctly.

The picking of grain on the Sabbath, it wasn't like farm labor lol, the disciples were hungry so they picked them to eat. That's why Jesus when confronted tells them that if a man's animal falls into a pit on the Sabbath, would he refuse to go pick it up? The Sabbath days is a sign between God and his people, not some authoritarian law that burdens them.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

Blasphemy is "speaking evil"

To say that Jesus cast out demons by the power of demons, was to speak evil of the Son.
(forgiven)

To say that the Holy Spirit (the source by which He does cast out) is evil, is to speak evil of the Holy Spirit.
(not forgiven)

In other words, to say that Jesus taps into an evil power is blasphemy of the Son.
To say that the evil power He might tap into is the Holy Spirit, is blasphemy of the Spirit.
(vehicle compared to the driver)

However, most people who engage in this common blasphemy of the Holy Spirit have no concept of what they are doing, and are not guilty to an effect that merits punishment, but first to an effect that gives instruction. And once one understands what it is, he never commits it again.

God does not correct with means beyond necessity, as if to take evil pleasure.

Example, someone steals my lawnmower and I conspire in my heart to shoot him, or actually shoot him.
God doesn't do this, but people base their image of Him on the same man-made idea of excessive vengeance.
They liken God to Cain.

 

[kenisyes]

if that is true (which I agree) then a LOT of people here are in BIG trouble.

But not us, I'm sure.

 

[nathan3]

He repudiated the laws of honoring one's parents, and called on his followers to hate their parents; he also dishonored his own mother (Matthew 10:34-36; Matthew 12:46-50; Luke 14:26).

To speak a word against Christ, as he walked among us in the flesh is forgivable as written in the Bible ( Matthew12: 32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit , it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come). . Non the less it is very bad to speak against Christ, but it's not what is written as being blasphemy of the H.S. And it does not say in this verse what it is. Only what it is not, and that its bad.

Just to address this quote from that site you posted Zone; It is suppose to read ''' Love parents less, then you would God, God takes priority above all, keeping in mind God's commandment to Honer they father and mother, and to love as Christ stated. He also stated that ; He does not change, one jot or tittle of the law; & to keep the commandments of God. That is also written.

The Blasphemy has nothing to do with what is commonly taught today GreenNnice . but its non the less bad still. The answer is only found in the scriptures .

 

[zone]

Just to address this quote from that site you posted Zone; It is suppose to read ''' Love parents less, then you would God, God takes priority above all, keeping in mind God's commandment to Honer they father and mother, and to love as Christ stated. He also stated that ; He does not change, one jot or tittle of the law; & to keep the commandments of God. That is also written.

okay.
drop them a line to correct them.
they're talmudic pharisees.
they might listen to you.
i doubt it.

 

[nathan3]

okay.
drop them a line to correct them.
they're talmudic pharisees.
they might listen to you.
i doubt it.

You need to be very familiar with the scriptures old and new testaments,the Torah in particular ; to even dent their way of thinking. So I'm not going to bother , at this time.

 

[Tintin]

Graybeard, yes and no. We have to be discerning but we also have to remember there are lots of nut-jobs on this website. Every second person seems to deem themselves a prophet with important news (that often contradicts scripture).

 

[djness]

I would be one of those people who thinks they have committed this sin. In fact just today before reading this thread I was having some thoughts which I won't type out here. I first rread about this particular sin some 12 years ago and was convinced I had committed it. Unfortunately through the years due to sin in my life and anger at God because of other circumstances I have actually gone into these panic cycles of thinking a particular evil thought and playing this game over in my head of did I just say that..I just did now I am damned forever.

I'm not really sure If I am or am not. Probably am and there is nothing that can be done about it if I have.

I see some people come on CC once in awhile like just last night typing in all caps that they think that have committed this sin and then people voice all sorts of ideas about what it is, some of those ideas having nothing to do with what Jesus flat out says it is.

 

[kenisyes]

Satan has this trick of trying to convince people they are always committing sins. He gets them so worried, that they don't have time to listen to what God is actually saying. He did that to me for many years when I was a kid. I finally figured it out: If you love God enough to worry about it all the time, then you probably love God enough not to have committed any serious sins on purpose in the first place. So, as soon as you can figure out it's not God talking to you, you can stop listening. It takes a while to undo the old habits, but the reward at the end is real freedom to hear God.

Panic cycles certainly sound like what I had back then. That's not your conscience. God doesn't panic people; He loves them, even (and especially) when they sin..

 

[nathan3]

I would be one of those people who thinks they have committed this sin.

I'm not really sure If I am or am not. Probably am and there is nothing that can be done about it if I have.

I see some people come on CC once in awhile like just last night typing in all caps that they think that have committed this sin and then people voice all sorts of ideas about what it is, some of those ideas having nothing to do with what Jesus flat out says it is.

The Bible is precise , & extremely specific about what this sin is. I know that you have not committed it. Not possible. No matter your thoughts they can be forgiven if you believe and repent in Christ name of said sin, and mean it and change. Then if you fall repent again and it is forgiven , because that is for the believer on what Christ accomplish for us .Your a new person.

But you have not committed the unforgivable sin, no one has. and it is not possible for anyone today to commit that. The Bible is precise on what it is .Yet people still are confused, i don't see why that is , when it is written.

 

[zone]

But you have not committed the unforgivable sin, no one has. and it is not possible for anyone today to commit that. The Bible is precise on what it is .Yet people still are confused, i don't see why that is , when it is written.

what would your theory on that be?
the same as arnold murray's?: that satan arrives acting and looking just like Jesus and ppl worship him and that's the unforgiveable sin?

document that please.

ONCE AGAIN:

THE UNPARDONABLE SIN WAS COMMITTED BY THE PHARISEES WHO ATTRIBUTED HIS MIRACLE WORKING POWER TO BEELZEBUB.

it continues to be committed today by ppl who teach the same thing they taught: that Jesus practised SORCERY and used Mystery Religion magic. Claiming that in Jesus did not dwell the fullness of the GodHead Bodily - Claiming Jesus's power was satan's power, not the HOLY SPIRIT.

BLASPHEMING THE HOLY SPIRIT.

this is NOT committed by Christians who doubt or call "fake" when Benny Hinn makes ppl fall over.
it is not committed by Christians who deny continuationism.
it is not committed by Christians who reject modern prophets or the signs and wonders crowds antics.

it is not committed by born again Christians. they know the Spirit because He dwells in them. they do not attribute the works of Christ recorded in the Scriptures to Beelzebub.

THE UNPARDONABLE SIN WAS COMMITTED BY THE PHARISEES WHO ATTRIBUTED HIS MIRACLE WORKING POWER TO BEELZEBUB. < MAGIC, SORCERY.

go read the passages.
ok?

 

[nathan3]

what would your theory on that be?
the same as arnold murray's?: that satan arrives acting and looking just like Jesus and ppl worship him and that's the unforgiveable sin?

document that please.

ONCE AGAIN:

THE UNPARDONABLE SIN WAS COMMITTED BY THE PHARISEES WHO ATTRIBUTED HIS MIRACLE WORKING POWER TO BEELZEBUB.

it continues to be committed today by ppl who teach the same thing they taught: that Jesus practised SORCERY and used Mystery Religion magic. Claiming that in Jesus did not dwell the fullness of the GodHead Bodily - Claiming Jesus's power was satan's power, not the HOLY SPIRIT.

BLASPHEMING THE HOLY SPIRIT.

this is NOT committed by Christians who doubt or call "fake" when Benny Hinn makes ppl fall over.
it is not committed by Christians who deny continuationism.
it is not committed by Christians who reject modern prophets or the signs and wonders crowds antics.

it is not committed by born again Christians. they know the Spirit because He dwells in them. they do not attribute the works of Christ recorded in the Scriptures to Beelzebub.

THE UNPARDONABLE SIN WAS COMMITTED BY THE PHARISEES WHO ATTRIBUTED HIS MIRACLE WORKING POWER TO BEELZEBUB. < MAGIC, SORCERY.

go read the passages.
ok?

Once again No Zone. What you posted is not what I believe .The Bible is very very very clear what it is, It simply tells you in plane language. You already assume too much for me to post scripture here, so im not going to bother. But I talk about this more in person or voice. When it comes to scripture I dont like confusion to be involved. I like to be clear. You should document what you posted also.

 

[zone]

Once again No Zone. What you posted is not what I believe .The Bible is very very very clear what it is, It simply tells you in plane language.

what is it?

please write it out.

what is the unforgivable sin?

that's what i want to know about. not your ideas. what is it according to the word of God?

in The Bible's very very very clear language.
thanks.

 

[Stephen63]

I would be one of those people who thinks they have committed this sin. In fact just today before reading this thread I was having some thoughts which I won't type out here. I first rread about this particular sin some 12 years ago and was convinced I had committed it. Unfortunately through the years due to sin in my life and anger at God because of other circumstances I have actually gone into these panic cycles of thinking a particular evil thought and playing this game over in my head of did I just say that..I just did now I am damned forever.

I'm not really sure If I am or am not. Probably am and there is nothing that can be done about it if I have.

I see some people come on CC once in awhile like just last night typing in all caps that they think that have committed this sin and then people voice all sorts of ideas about what it is, some of those ideas having nothing to do with what Jesus flat out says it is.

You're not the only one that did this, djness. Even the apostle Paul did it before he was saved.

1 Timothy 1:12-14 12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

Blaspheming the Holy Ghost in ignorance is forgivable. What we read in the Gospels where the pharisees and priests did it was done on purpose. They knew what they were doing. They were not forgiven. But Paul was because he did it in ignorance. This is why I believe Jesus said this on the cross:
"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

 

[CDavid]

Blasphemy's bad OK! Just don't do it!