At what point 'blasphemy?'

[zone]

Yep, I AM . Don't judge, don't condemn, don't run another's race if THEIR foundation, too, is in Christ, ohzone, or, else I can't see where doing this judgment against another in Christ with Him IN them would not be a form of blasphemy against the Spirit; it is purporting to place another believer into a state of weakness with their Christ as they view Him devalued by the Christian 'plank-blind' judger's un-Spirited judgment. Run your own race ! < This said to no one in particular

Food for thought, as, when you are a Christian, having accepted the Spirit into your life, you will know what you do to another brother, or, sister, He in you will tell you to quit hurting Him (denying His leading) by hurting other Christian. And, this is especially true of advantaging your greater bible knowledge to belittle and break someone, THAT, milady, is what MOST we must be careful of

green.
all i was suggesting, take it or leave it, is we shouldn't mess around with that sin.

i don't think it's a good idea to free-wheel it on this one.
"a form of" etc.
it was and is a very particular sin.
zone.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

I know of a couple instances/examples of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

1Sa 3:11 And the LORD said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle.
1Sa 3:12 In that day I will perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house: when I begin, I will also make an end.
1Sa 3:13 For I have told him that I will judge his house for ever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not.
1Sa 3:14 And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever.

1Sa 2:22 Now Eli was very old, and heard all that his sons did unto all Israel; and how they lay with the women that assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

These were priests of the Most High God.

1Sa_2:12 Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they knew not the LORD.

Gen_6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen_6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The sons of God started as the tabernacle of the congregation (spiritually speaking), they were priests to begin with, but never did what they said they would do (liars from the beginning).

 

[nathan3]

I know of a couple instances/examples of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

1Sa 3:11 And the LORD said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle.
1Sa 3:12 In that day I will perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house: when I begin, I will also make an end.
1Sa 3:13 For I have told him that I will judge his house for ever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not.
1Sa 3:14 And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever.

1Sa 2:22 Now Eli was very old, and heard all that his sons did unto all Israel; and how they lay with the women that assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

These were priests of the Most High God.

1Sa_2:12 Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they knew not the LORD.

Gen_6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen_6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The sons of God started as the tabernacle of the congregation (spiritually speaking), they were priests to begin with, but never did what they said they would do (liars from the beginning).

These scriptures never have the subject of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Its not the subject. Since Christ said that Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not forgivable . Then He should have mentioned in the scriptures what it was. It does not state that anywhere here as being a subject in the scriptures' you quoted here. : /

 

[Jon4TheCross]

These scriptures never have the subject of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Its not the subject. Since Christ said that Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is not forgivable . Then He should have mentioned in the scriptures what it was. It does not state that anywhere here as being a subject in the scriptures' you quoted here. : /

Did you not notice the unforgivable part?

1Sa 3:14 And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever.

 

[nathan3]

Did you not notice the unforgivable part?

1Sa 3:14 And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever.

This says the sin of Eli. The Holy Spirit is not mentioned here .The Holy Spirit is not the subject anywhere here.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

This says the sin of Eli. The Holy Spirit is not mentioned here .The Holy Spirit is not the subject anywhere here.

Why then is this unforgivable? The only unforgivable sins I know of in scripture are worded as the mark of the beast and blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

 

[nathan3]

Why then is this unforgivable? The only unforgivable sins I know of in scripture are worded as the mark of the beast and blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

seems like your grasping at straws seeing what fits here. Mark of the beast Christ did not say it was unforgivable, so lets not bring that into it.

Find scriptures that have interaction with the Holy Spirit. It would have to be not to far from where Christ first made the statement about the H.S.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

seems like your grasping at straws seeing what fits here. Mark of the beast Christ did not say it was unforgivable, so lets not bring that into it.

Find scriptures that have interaction with the Holy Spirit. It would have to be not to far from where Christ first made the statement about the H.S.

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Surely it is unforgivable, and that only leaves blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and it is my opinion that having the mark of the name of the beast is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as well, just because it's unforgivable.

If the sons of Eli did not blaspheme the Holy Spirit, then why unforgivable?

Mar_3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

 

[nathan3]

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Surely it is unforgivable, and that only leaves blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and it is my opinion that having the mark of the name of the beast is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as well, just because it's unforgivable.

If the sons of Eli did not blaspheme the Holy Spirit, then why unforgivable?

Mar_3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

The only scripture you got right is the one that says Blaspheme of the H.S is never forgiven. So why are you all the way in Rev. That is like putting the horse before the cart when it comes to this, because you should look first in the rest of Mark, and Luke. before you rush to Revelation. You missed something in those books for sure.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

The only scripture you got right is the one that says Blaspheme of the H.S is never forgiven. So why are you all the way in Rev. That is like putting the horse before the cart when it comes to this, because you should look first in the rest of Mark, and Luke. before you rush to Revelation. You missed something in those books for sure.

I don't see any scripture to support your opinons. I was using scripture in Revelation to point out that there are two differently worded examples of unforgivable sins (although I believe they are the same, but do not know they are the same).

Again I ask, what is your explanation from scripture for the sons of eli to not be forgiven forever?

 

[nathan3]

I don't see any scripture to support your opinons. I was using scripture in Revelation to point out that there are two differently worded examples of unforgivable sins (although I believe they are the same, but do not know they are the same).

Again I ask, what is your explanation from scripture for the sons of eli to not be forgiven forever?

I would simply cover all of Mark and Luke.

 

[GreenNnice]

green.
all i was suggesting, take it or leave it, is we shouldn't mess around with that sin.

i don't think it's a good idea to free-wheel it on this one.
"a form of" etc.
it was and is a very particular sin.
zone.

Take it

So, ohzone, not to be with any chance of being misunderstood, no, we should not play fool.with turning that Truth into reality in our life although for one to commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit one needs to be denying Him, who is in them, and, this doing will be one's undoing but another looking cannot truly see this happening because He is the only one who would know this mind choice of one choosing to deny Him as Saviour and Lord. For that knowledge staining of a Christian doing into his/her life is only known by God as man looks outwardly and judges, even condemns man...

...while God convicts with love (no guilt) through His Son mediating who's given us Himself, a 'Helper,' with love, abounding grace to the one sinning by blasphemy against Him. It is only when the denial peaks and that denying one truly walks away/departs from His ways for them. This is VERY hard to do, some would say 'impossible,' because they were never saved in the first place.

What do you say, green? I say, they WERE saved in the first place, at what point the blasphemy happens is WHEN they are no longer (not 'never were') saved . Blasphemy is real and the saved sinner is 'not going to be forgiven,' Mark 3:29 says (thanks, matenate )

But, yes, the distinction is clear, the doing of this, can we call it 'sin?' is...

Luke 12:10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.


Soo, it's important to understand that the blasphemy of One is of one and not the other of Himself

 

[zone]

for one to commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit one needs to be denying Him

hi green.
could you show where it says the unpardonable sin is denying the Holy Spirit?

it says 'speaking against' Him/blaspheming Him.
doesn't it?
zone

Matthew 12:31
Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Matthew 12:32
And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 3
28&#8220;Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, 29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin&#8221;&#8212; 30for they were saying, &#8220;He has an unclean spirit.&#8221;

 

[GreenNnice]

Take it

So, ohzone, not to be with any chance of being misunderstood, no, we should not play fool.with turning that Truth into reality in our life although for one to commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit one needs to be denying Him, who is in them, and, this doing will be one's undoing but another looking cannot truly see this happening because He is the only one who would know this mind choice of one choosing to deny Him as Saviour and Lord. For that knowledge staining of a Christian doing into his/her life is only known by God as man looks outwardly and judges, even condemns man...

...while God convicts with love (no guilt) through His Son mediating who's given us Himself, a 'Helper,' with love, abounding grace to the one sinning by blasphemy against Him. It is only when the denial peaks and that denying one truly walks away/departs from His ways for them. This is VERY hard to do, some would say 'impossible,' because they were never saved in the first place.

What do you say, green? I say, they WERE saved in the first place, at what point the blasphemy happens is WHEN they are no longer (not 'never were') saved . Blasphemy is real and the saved sinner is 'not going to be forgiven,' Mark 3:29 says (thanks, matenate )

But, yes, the distinction is clear, the doing of this, can we call it 'sin?' is...

Luke 12:10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.


Soo, it's important to understand that the blasphemy of One is of one and not the other of Himself

just to elaborate, we are OK to speak against (blasphemy) the Son of Man, this SIN is forgiven.

Maybe a new good question for you all is...

....just what IS speaking against the Son of man ?

Is this bible-based (speaking against Jesus, would this be His Word) blasphemy vs. spiritual-based (Holy Spirit) blasphemy?

Here, too, is some Scripture for us to understand why in my post above block-quoted is saying that blasphemy against another can be (is?) blasphemy against Christ, who is inside that person's temple, with 'who' being, the Holy Spirit

Romans 15:3 For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."

hi green.
could you show where it says the unpardonable sin is denying the Holy Spirit?

it says 'speaking against' Him/blaspheming Him.
doesn't it?
zone

Matthew 12:31
Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.

Matthew 12:32
And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Mark 3
28&#8220;Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the children of man, and whatever blasphemies they utter, 29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin&#8221;&#8212; 30for they were saying, &#8220;He has an unclean spirit.&#8221;

Ohzone, the denial of Christ takes many forms of blasphemy. God is One. The Son of man is One. The Holy Spirit is One.

But, only One is said by Jesus to be the unpardonable sin, so, that is the form of sin against the Holy Spirit, denying His leading. Those in Him KNOW His leading

The Lord leads...

 

[zone]

Here, too, is some Scripture for us to understand why in my post above block-quoted is saying that blasphemy against another can be (is?) blasphemy against Christ, who is inside that person's temple, with 'who' being, the Holy Spirit

so, can you commit blasphemy against me, green?
ya think?

Psalm 69:9
for zeal for your house consumes me, and the insults of those who insult you fall on me.

Romans 15:3
For Christ did not please himself, but as it is written, &#8220;The reproaches of those who reproached you fell on me.&#8221;

Matthew 27:44
In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

Ohzone, the denial of Christ takes many forms of blasphemy. God is One. The Son of man is One. The Holy Spirit is One.

But, only One is said by Jesus to be the unpardonable sin, so, that is the form of sin against the Holy Spirit, denying His leading. Those in Him KNOW His leading

The Lord leads...

no, that's not the unpardonable sin.
if people reject Jesus, they're going to be lost.

but that is not the unpardonable sin - calling the Power whereby Christ performed His miracles an unclean spirit was/is.

DENIAL IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE PASSAGES.

but we don't have to agree, green.

 

[nathan3]

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Surely it is unforgivable, and that only leaves blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and it is my opinion that having the mark of the name of the beast is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as well, just because it's unforgivable.

If the sons of Eli did not blaspheme the Holy Spirit, then why unforgivable?

Mar_3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

You do realize that happens at the End''' the Judgement Day.Okay,. anyone that wants to be willingly against Christ is going into that fire at the end''. Satan is going in there too. This sin Christ allllready said it is against the Holy Spirit. If you intentionally dont want to read Mark and Luke, then your intentionally going to remain ignorent of what this is.

 

[weakness]

I kind of agree with what Rick said earlier. But more to the point The Holy Spirit is the mean by which we are convinced of sin, taught the things of god, made new creatures <fight the good fight ,Basically enter in to salvation. To call the Holy Spirit a devil Is rejecting the only way of eternal life. Its like burning the only bridge theirs to heaven To blasphemy any part of the God head would be the same . unless you think of their functions .Since the Spirit reveals to us the things of God .To reject or call him a devil is sealing your doom. because there is no other way but through the Holy Spirit to be forgive or get to heaven My opinion.

 

[GreenNnice]

so, can you commit blasphemy against me, green?
ya think?

Psalm 69:9
for zeal for your house consumes me, and the insults of those who insult you fall on me.

Romans 15:3
For Christ did not please himself, but as it is written, &#8220;The reproaches of those who reproached you fell on me.&#8221;

Matthew 27:44
In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.



no, that's not the unpardonable sin.
if people reject Jesus, they're going to be lost.

but that is not the unpardonable sin - calling the Power whereby Christ performed His miracles an unclean spirit was/is.

DENIAL IS NOT MENTIONED IN THE PASSAGES.

but we don't have to agree, green.

Denying the Holy Spirit is blasphemy, and, 'that' takes on many forms.


I wouldn't want to go around doing it--even once--but denying Christ (the Son of man) is not blasphemy, it's just not a very smart thing to do.

Remember, too, in denying the Spirit's leading, to truly get to that 'point' of blasphemy, ohzone, one needs to, basically, deny Him ( Holy Spirit) who has already COME INSIDE their 'temple'. (body).

Very hard for one to do , that is , blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, because THAT one is one who has been convicted by the Spirit-->accepted Christ at the altar or ?? (wherever) , who HAS seen the Spirit at work in their life , to a varying (greater) degree than.the faith of living in Christ from salvation (being saved) . There is just something special about His leading my life, it's foolish to explain it if someone does not believe in that extrordinary way of giftedness power unto the believer through faith of the Spirit Grace-fully working in his)her life with mercy and love

 

[Bookends]

"Passages like Matthew 12:22-37, Mark 3:20-30, and Luke 12:10 all have one thing in common. They consistently portray people who knowingly persist in rejecting Christ’s messianic mission despite His miracles and the ministering power of the Holy Spirit. From a historical perspective it is important to note that the Pharisees had firsthand knowledge of Christ’s miracle working power. In addition, they knew the scriptures and thus understood intellectually that Christ was the fulfillment of messianic prophecy. Therefore, their rejection of Christ epitomized the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit." by Hank Hanegraaff, president of CRI. The full article <<The Unforgivable Sin | CRI>>

 

[Tintin]

GreenNnice, your posts are often unsettling, not because of the content but because your writing style is so difficult to comprehend. It's almost like you're interrupting yourself with cackling moments and then sombre words of conviction.