Baptism of the Holy Spirit

[zone]

I expected a knowledge that Id received the spirits fulness, perhaps a prophecy, maybe speaking in tongues SOMETHING that showed me that I had been baptised in the Spirit

oh my.
you ARE baptised in the Spirit if you believe in Jesus Christ crucified for your sins. if you were drawn to Christ by Abba and repented and believed, did you get baptised?

if i were you i would put down the Second Baptism doctrine and back away. right away.
whatever church is teaching you that, i would LEAVE immediately.
zone

Baptism with the Holy Spirit

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search
Baptism with the Holy Spirit (or Baptism in the Holy Spirit) in Christian theology is a term describing baptism (i.e. washing or immersion) in or with the Spirit of God.[1] While the phrase "baptism with the Holy Spirit" is found in the New Testament and all Christian traditions accept it as a theological concept, each has interpreted it in a way consistent with their own beliefs on ecclesiology and Christian initiation.[2] One view holds that the term refers only to the "once-for-all" event for the whole Church described in the second chapter of the Book of Acts[3] while another view holds that the term also refers to an experience of the individual believer distinct from salvation and initiation into the Church.[3]

Before the emergence of the holiness movement in the mid 19th century and Pentecostalism in the early 20th century, most denominations believed that Christians received the baptism with the Holy Spirit either upon conversion and regeneration [3] or through rites of Christian initiation.

Since the growth and spread of Pentecostal and charismatic churches, however, the belief that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is an experience distinct from regeneration has come into increasing prominence.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_with_the_Holy_Spirit

 

[zone]

I do need to learn patience but I so desperately want to enjoy the Spirit in its completeness especially so Ill have more power to overcome a sin i keep struggling with.

speaking in tongues or prophesying will help you overcome sin?
since when?

that's self-control and prayer.
that's possible because you HAVE the gift you need: The Holy Spirit working sanctification in you.
there's no abracadabra for overcoming sin: pray for help and change your ways, repent when you stumble.

being slain in the spirit or pretending you are an Aspostle will only HURT you, not help you. what "word of knowledge" do you need to help with sinning aside from STOP?

 

[jonathanbchristian]

oh my.
you ARE baptised in the Spirit if you believe in Jesus Christ crucified for your sins. if you were drawn to Christ by Abba and repented and believed, did you get baptised?

if i were you i would put down the Second Baptism doctrine and back away. right away.
whatever church is teaching you that, i would LEAVE immediately.
zone

Baptism with the Holy Spirit

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search
Baptism with the Holy Spirit (or Baptism in the Holy Spirit) in Christian theology is a term describing baptism (i.e. washing or immersion) in or with the Spirit of God.[1] While the phrase "baptism with the Holy Spirit" is found in the New Testament and all Christian traditions accept it as a theological concept, each has interpreted it in a way consistent with their own beliefs on ecclesiology and Christian initiation.[2] One view holds that the term refers only to the "once-for-all" event for the whole Church described in the second chapter of the Book of Acts[3] while another view holds that the term also refers to an experience of the individual believer distinct from salvation and initiation into the Church.[3]

Before the emergence of the holiness movement in the mid 19th century and Pentecostalism in the early 20th century, most denominations believed that Christians received the baptism with the Holy Spirit either upon conversion and regeneration [3] or through rites of Christian initiation.

Since the growth and spread of Pentecostal and charismatic churches, however, the belief that the baptism with the Holy Spirit is an experience distinct from regeneration has come into increasing prominence.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_with_the_Holy_Spirit

I don't think anyone should leave their church because they believe you recieve the Baptism of the Holy Spirit after salvation. Jesus breathed on the disciples and said "Recieve ye the Holy Spirit." The same disciples were in the upper room when they were baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tounges. You "Recieve" the Holy Spirit when you are saved; you are baptized in the Holy Spirit when you speak in tongues!

 

[shroom2]

I don't think anyone should leave their church because they believe you recieve the Baptism of the Holy Spirit after salvation. Jesus breathed on the disciples and said "Recieve ye the Holy Spirit." The same disciples were in the upper room when they were baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tounges. You "Recieve" the Holy Spirit when you are saved; you are baptized in the Holy Spirit when you speak in tongues!

Receiving holy spirit and being baptized in holy spirit are the same thing. God gives the gift once, at the moment of the new birth. You will speak in tongues once you realize you can, and then open your mouth and start speaking. God already moved. The rest is up to you.

 

[phil36]

I don't believe in a second spiritual baptism. It is as Red said the promise of the indwelling Spirt when regenerated.

Ez 36:26-27:

26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Titus 3:5

5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

John 3:6

6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Now, we have to remember that John the Baptizers baptism is not the same as Christian Baptism, John's is rooted in the OT tradition and was for repentence to get ready for the one who would baptize with the Spirit..Jesus (see aboce scriptures).

Concerning, what people say about this second Baptism in the book of Acts you have to understand what is actually going on, this comes back to scripture interprits scripture.


Acts 1:8

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

We se here a definite move

spread of the gospel

1)Jerusalem
2)Judea
3)Samaria
5)ends of the earth (gentiles)

When you compare this with all the episodes concerning recieving the Spirit, it is signifying to the Apostle that the gospel is indeed moving, from Jerusalem to Judea to samaria, ad to the rest of the world.

Once the gospel message has moved into the gentile world you do not hear of this again, there is no sign needed to the apsotles, for indeed the gospel had spread out into the world.

There is no hint or trace of a second baptism after the gentiles are entreated to the great commission.

 

[Psalm2713]

Zone I think it should be the other way around ,....when your church does not tell you that there is baptism of the Spirit which is necesarry for evey believer then you should tell them the truth, and then leave if they don't believe(receive it)...

I have noticed that when people don't believe in the manifestation of the Spirit, including tongues they won't believe in many other biblical truths....... Jesus said that the Spirit will reveal things to us .. when christians don't have the Holy Spirit living in them they will lack the knowledge brought by the Spirit......

the christians who don't believe are the source and followers of false doctrine ( which is not totally true... but partially).

For those who haven't received the Holy Spirit, I am not saying you are not really Christian, I know you are. I have been there all years of my salvation till recently. I want to encourage you to pray without ceasing, asking God in faith for the Gift of His Spirit. Remember the story of the wicked judge and the widow asking for justice.
Love.

 

[zone]

Zone I think it should be the other way around ,....when your church does not tell you that there is baptism of the Spirit which is necesarry for evey believer then you should tell them the truth, and then leave if they don't believe(receive it)...

I have noticed that when people don't believe in the manifestation of the Spirit, including tongues they won't believe in many other biblical truths....... Jesus said that the Spirit will reveal things to us .. when christians don't have the Holy Spirit living in them they will lack the knowledge brought by the Spirit......

the christians who don't believe are the source and followers of false doctrine ( which is not totally true... but partially).

For those who haven't received the Holy Spirit, I am not saying you are not really Christian, I know you are. I have been there all years of my salvation till recently. I want to encourage you to pray without ceasing, asking God in faith for the Gift of His Spirit. Remember the story of the wicked judge and the widow asking for justice.
Love.

thank you but no thanks.
been there done that.
i know where this came from and where it is going.

 

[zone]

I don't believe in a second spiritual baptism. It is as Red said the promise of the indwelling Spirt when regenerated.

Ez 36:26-27:

26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

Titus 3:5

5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

John 3:6

6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Now, we have to remember that John the Baptizers baptism is not the same as Christian Baptism, John's is rooted in the OT tradition and was for repentence to get ready for the one who would baptize with the Spirit..Jesus (see aboce scriptures).

Concerning, what people say about this second Baptism in the book of Acts you have to understand what is actually going on, this comes back to scripture interprits scripture.


Acts 1:8

But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

We se here a definite move

spread of the gospel

1)Jerusalem
2)Judea
3)Samaria
5)ends of the earth (gentiles)

When you compare this with all the episodes concerning recieving the Spirit, it is signifying to the Apostle that the gospel is indeed moving, from Jerusalem to Judea to samaria, ad to the rest of the world.

Once the gospel message has moved into the gentile world you do not hear of this again, there is no sign needed to the apsotles, for indeed the gospel had spread out into the world.

There is no hint or trace of a second baptism after the gentiles are entreated to the great commission.

Amen Phil (and Red)
zone

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

I realize that this is a very sensitive issue so I'm not going to debate with anyone. However, if someone is genuinely curious about the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" then I encourage you to put everything that you've heard aside and simply open up your bible to the Book of Acts and begin reading. I'm not going to pull snippets of scripture out of the bible concerning this issue in order to prove certain points because to do so would be doing the scripture a great injustice. In fact, I personally believe that the Book of Acts is relevant to this discussion and that the entire book could very well have been entittled "the Acts of the Holy Spirit" and it would have been entirely appropriate.

Now it's true that every believer receives a measure of the Holy Spirit upon salvation however, in the book of Acts, it is very clear that there is a second Baptism of the Spirit to be had if so desired. The purpose of this Baptism was / is a spiritual anointing in preparation for ministry.

Throughout the book you will find instances where believers received the Baptism AFTER the initial act of salvation / water baptism. Now there are several instances where the Baptism of the Spirit was received on the same day as a person was saved however, it always occured after the new believer acknowledged Christ as Savior & decided to be baptized in water. There are also instances where believers received the Baptism long after they had initially believed / baptized in water thus there is more than enough scriptural proof for one to safely assume that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs after the initial act of salvation.

Many do not receive simply because they #1. have not been properly discipled, or #2. they simply have not read the book of Acts for themselves (from an unbiased perspective). I have yet to discover a single unbiased brand new believer who, after reading the book of Acts, has not come to the conclusion that there is enough scriptural evidence to discern for themselves that there is more of God to be had after the initial act of salvation. I do realize that for other believers this would rely heavily on religious affiliation before or at the point of salvation.

 

[unclefester]

To your last question: What it does?
When you have been blessed by the Holy Spirit, you will be allowed spiritually to access the Kingdom of God.
Now that is a whole new story. You will be allowed to persue the ability to actually hear God speak to you.
Someone who knows how, can teach you this, or the Holy Spirit Himself can teach you this. In my case it was more the Holy Spirit. You will also then after be able to learn how to heal others, speak in different languages or understanding them or any of the gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12.

Understanding how the gift works and how to use it is still required, but often enough if you use a little bit of faith you can go a long way with most of the gifts..

With love[/LEFT][/QUOTE)

Book, chapter and verse please.

 

[MaggieMye]

I don't think anyone should leave their church because they believe you receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit after salvation.Which one Does. So that would be a good reason to STAY. NO ONE can receive the empowerment of the Holy Spirit, Upper room-style, UNLESS they are first saved. In EVERY instance in the Bible in which someone received the empowerment or baptism of the Holy Spirit, they were ALWAYS BELEIVERS FIRST. Jesus breathed on the disciples Disciples are believers!! and said "Receive ye the Holy Spirit." The same disciples were in the upper room when they were baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. You "Receive" the Holy Spirit when you are saved; No, you receive JESUS. We need to remember that the disciples FIRST had JESUS in their midst. THEN AFTER JESUS LEFT, came the Holy Spirit. You are baptized in the Holy Spirit when you speak in tongues! Here is the Biblical order: Salvation then water baptism, then Baptism of the Holy Spirit WITH the evidence of speaking in tongues (remember to OPEN your MOUTH!!); It can also be, Salvation, Baptism of Holy Spirit and Then water baptism. Water baptism does not save. It is an ACT of OBEDIENCE unto the Lord. Baptism in the Holy Spirit does not save. HOWEVER, one MUST BE SAVED in order to RECEIVE the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. And as for water baptism, if it is done as an act to convince others that you are saved and you really are not, but are just doing it to get them off your back, THAT can bring a curse upon your head. THAT is to MOCK GOD.​

 

[Lad]

Lad: All that happens is that you become empowered of God to DO His will and His word. THere isn't any weird feeling or anything like that, although some peope do get a warm feeling for a minute or so, but not everyone. Along with the Holy Spirit empowerment should come your "tongues"....speaking in tongues in languages that you do not know, but that God and Angels DO know. It is the HOLY SPIRIT PRAYING THROUGH YOU. Usually this is imparted through the laying on of hands. Read Acts chapters 2, 9,10 and 19

Yeah ive never understood the whole 'spiritual language' thing aye... It sounds like absolute jibberish and helps no one at all. And almost everything that glorifies God benefits men as well. I just dont understand why when having a conversation with my God that I should speak in a language I dont know. It just doesnt make sense, i mean how is that building up my relationship with him? Its like talking french to an african who only speaks xosa, neither of you get anything from it..

 

[Lad]

speaking in tongues or prophesying will help you overcome sin?
since when?

that's self-control and prayer.
that's possible because you HAVE the gift you need: The Holy Spirit working sanctification in you.
there's no abracadabra for overcoming sin: pray for help and change your ways, repent when you stumble.

being slain in the spirit or pretending you are an Aspostle will only HURT you, not help you. what "word of knowledge" do you need to help with sinning aside from STOP?

Thats not what i meant at all, i was just under the impression that the power and conviction of the holy spirit grew stronger maybe and that would help me. I am under no impression that speaking in 'tongues' or prophesying will affect sin and i DONT believe in being slain in the Spirit because the bible only mentions 3 ppl being slain in the spirit and they were all killed (ananias and sapphira and the king who was eaten by worms) LOL please dont equate me with apostolic pentecostals as i dont believe in alot of what they do.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

Yeah ive never understood the whole 'spiritual language' thing aye... It sounds like absolute jibberish and helps no one at all. And almost everything that glorifies God benefits men as well. I just dont understand why when having a conversation with my God that I should speak in a language I dont know. It just doesnt make sense, i mean how is that building up my relationship with him? Its like talking french to an african who only speaks xosa, neither of you get anything from it..

I personally know several people with whom God has used to minister to others in their own native tongue (German, Hebrew, Chinese / Mandarin) without ever hearing the language before much less learn it. How it happens only God knows and if I didn't know these people myself to know that they are good authentic & upstanding christians, I wouldn't believe it either.

 

[Lad]

Again, I ask that you all dont debate with each other on this thread but simply give me ur view, evidence, and answer my questions as fire and others have done. Thanks. And also i dont believe its biblical to leave your church because you dont like it, nowhere in revelation does jesus say to a failing church "go to the one down the road" he simply says to overcome.

 

[Lad]

I personally know several people with whom God has used to minister to others in their own native tongue (German, Hebrew, Chinese / Mandarin) without ever hearing the language before much less learn it. How it happens only God knows and if I didn't know these people myself to know that they are good authentic & upstanding christians, I wouldn't believe it either.

See now that makes sense to me though, to me thats a much better interpretation of tongues, the speaking of other EARTHLY languages. What i was saying i dont understand was when ppl burst out in a volley of weird words that minister to no one and dont seem to be any language at all.

 

[MaggieMye]

Yeah ive never understood the whole 'spiritual language' thing aye... It sounds like absolute jibberish and helps no one at all. This is where you are wrong. If it did not help anyone at all, Paul would NEVER have said "I speak in tongues more than all of you" or "I wish you ALL spoke in tongues" And almost everything that glorifies God benefits men as well.Right. And praying in tongues, EDIFIES the inner man (1 Cor 14:4) I just dont understand why when having a conversation with my God that I should speak in a language I dont know. Because when WE run out of words, the Spirit can pray FOR and THROUGH us. God does not want to hear vain repititions of our limited renditions of prayer. He wants us to state our suplication and then praise Him for His answer, to worship Him IN SPIRIT and in truth. The SPIRITUAL language edifies US and PLEASES HIM. And THAT is the WHY of tongues. It just doesnt make sense, i mean how is that building up my relationship with him? Its like talking french to an african who only speaks xosa, neither of you get anything from it.. See above. Remember that God uses what WE deem as foolish for His purposes as well as seeing Our 'wisdom' as foolishness.
...And if you listen....really listen...there are many that speak in tongues and have beautiful spiritual languages that ebb and flow, with intonations and even emotional expression...like any earthly language. Not all, but many.
Maggie

 

[Lad]

Yeah ive never understood the whole 'spiritual language' thing aye... It sounds like absolute jibberish and helps no one at all. This is where you are wrong. If it did not help anyone at all, Paul would NEVER have said "I speak in tongues more than all of you" or "I wish you ALL spoke in tongues" And almost everything that glorifies God benefits men as well.Right. And praying in tongues, EDIFIES the inner man (1 Cor 14:4) I just dont understand why when having a conversation with my God that I should speak in a language I dont know. Because when WE run out of words, the Spirit can pray FOR and THROUGH us. God does not want to hear vain repititions of our limited renditions of prayer. He wants us to state our suplication and then praise Him for His answer, to worship Him IN SPIRIT and in truth. The SPIRITUAL language edifies US and PLEASES HIM. And THAT is the WHY of tongues. It just doesnt make sense, i mean how is that building up my relationship with him? Its like talking french to an african who only speaks xosa, neither of you get anything from it.. See above. Remember that God uses what WE deem as foolish for His purposes as well as seeing Our 'wisdom' as foolishness.
...And if you listen....really listen...there are many that speak in tongues and have beautiful spiritual languages that ebb and flow, with intonations and even emotional expression...like any earthly language. Not all, but many.
Maggie

What if i dont run out of words? I never have before..

 

[shroom2]

Yeah ive never understood the whole 'spiritual language' thing aye... It sounds like absolute jibberish

The reason it sounds like "absolute gibberish" is because:
I Cor 14:2) For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

You do not understand what you are saying. You are not supposed to understand what you're saying.
14) For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

and helps no one at all.

It helps YOU.
4) He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;
Jude 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, [tongues]

And it also helps the church if you interpret.

And almost everything that glorifies God benefits men as well. I just dont understand why when having a conversation with my God that I should speak in a language I dont know.

The bible says to? Also, don't forget, we are to pray in our known language:
15) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also:
17) For thou verily givest thanks well,
You are magnifying God (from Acts)

It just doesnt make sense, i mean how is that building up my relationship with him? Its like talking french to an african who only speaks xosa, neither of you get anything from it..

Again, your understanding is unfruitful, but you are spiritually building yourself up. Plus, if you are speaking in tongues by the freedom of your will, it cannot be counterfeit. When you speak in tongues, it's proof you are born again.

I Cor 12:3b) ...and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

 

[AnandaHya]

speaking in tongues is NOT proof you are born again. I believe in speaking in tongues but not that it is proof of salvation or it should be gibberish done publically unless an interpretor is there and it edifies the church. God sees people's hearts and condemns those who claim gifts from Him that He has NOT given them.

we should all guard our tongues for we will be held to account for every word uttered.

The only true ones that need utterance are these: (notice the heart must also believe)

Romans 10:8-11
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”[a](that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”[b