Baptism symbol only ?

[homwardbound]

If this thought gives you satisfaction I will leave you with it and let you rejoice in it.

Oh no Sister I do not rejoice in it, I saddened in it, as in 1 cor 13:4-7

1 Corinthians 13:4-7New King James Version (NKJV)[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; [SUP]5 [/SUP]does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; [SUP]6 [/SUP]does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; [SUP]7 [/SUP]bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

 

[homwardbound]

If this thought gives you satisfaction I will leave you with it and let you rejoice in it.

I a sure you believe, and are sealed, God has taken up residence in you, and is your only true teacher

Hebrews 8:11New King James Version (NKJV)[SUP]11 [/SUP]None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

 

[IAm3rd]

I would like to attempt to answer your question, Baptism only, first of all is this a work of your own? or are being baptized through faith.

Secondly, when was the theif on the cross baptized? many will say that he followed John and was baptized but then err against their teaching that once saved always saved as he was a convicted thief, meaning if he had been baptized in water then why did he sin?.

Thirdly, no one can show from scripture where any of the Apostles were baptized in water, it can been shown that they were baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.

Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved, I see no water in that, do you?

1. the first question is interesting... yes its something we do, but Christ who saves. Isnt repenting something YOU do ? and isnt that necessary for salvation ?

2. The thief on the cross didnt go to heaven ( at least right away ), he went to Abraham's bosom where all of the disobedient souls were from the time of Noah, where Christ went for 3 days preaching the gospel. On this side of the cross, we know whats expected of us. Befor Christs assension he commanded to preach the gospel and BAPTIZE all believers.

3. Why would the Apostles baptize thousands of people, and not be baptized themselves ? Paul said as many have been baptized have been baptized into Christ. Ananias told Paul to ARISE and be baptized, washing away your sins... Why would he have to "arise" to be baptized in the spirit ? In the upper room the HS came upon them while they were sitting.

4. Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved... No, I see no water in that. I also see no repentence. So while this verse is true, it implies calling upon the name of the Lord in obedience right ? Otherwise Jesus wouldnt be telling people He never knew them when they say "Lord, Lord"... isnt that calling on the name of the Lord ?

 

[sacraig67]

Jesus first! That's what it all comes down too. I don't care if you are presby, baptist, methodist, reformed or other...If you have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior and live your life to glorify God then you are my brother or sister in Christ! In Christ I love you all. And in the words of Forrest Gump "And that's all I have to say about that" lol

 

[roaringkitten]

I was wondering if you all could help me find where the scripture says baptism is just a symbol one can choose to do if they want.
Thanks...

( note: looking for scripture here... not your opinions. )

Don't know what you are trying to get at(which baptism? There is baptism of fire, water, Holy Spirit, etc). I'll give you one example of symbolic baptism:

''Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.'' 1 Cor 10:1-4

They ate spiritual meat, drank of spiritual drink, and drank of Spiritual rock-which represents Christ. The whole point of this part of Scripture is spiritual(not literal, but symbolic-which by definition is a representation that points to another concept)....We know they crossed the sea on dry ground, so this baptism is not water baptism, but a spiritual representation. Exodus 13:21 tells us that the LORD went before them in a CLOUD by day and fire by night so they obviously crossed the Red sea during the day. The spiritual rock was Christ and it was HIM that followed them in the cloud to safety. I believe the concept of 1 Cor 10:1-4 is explained in 1 Cor 12:13:

''For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.''

Note that it clearly says ''baptized into one body''. NOT water! The word ''baptism'' does not in and of itself explain the substance one is ''immersed'' in. Many are confused because they do not read Scripture in the proper context.

 

[Fishbait]

Again, I am looking for a scripture reference that says baptism is only a symbol that doesnt need to be done... not a conclusion you come to by reading various verses... Does the Bible actually say it ? Anywhere ? in any form or fashion ?

Nowhere in the Bible does it say "baptism is only a symbol that doesnt need to be done."

 

[SolidGround]

The Baptism is of Spirit. If you are not Baptized in the Spirit, then how can you be raised unto new life eternal?
We were born once of water in physical birth.
We must be born again, not of water of our mother, or anything on earth,
but of Spirit. Read Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus.
Born of water=birth from womb
Born of Spirit=Baptized by the Spirit

John baptized with water, we are baptized by Spirit.

The ceremonial washing is a symbol of the spiritual baptism that we received in the Holy Spirit.
It is not an optional thing. It is a command.
But it is still only a symbol.

There is no power in any rite or ceremony or work.
The power is in the finished work of Christ, and the continued work of the Spirit.

Just as the Communion that we have in Christ is actually gained in His sacrifice,
We are commanded to use the symbol of that sacrifice (the bread and wine) to remind us of the spiritual reality.

So it is with water baptism. The actual Baptism is in the Spirit,
But we are commanded to use the symbol of that Baptism (water immersion) to remind us of the spiritual reality.

Please don't place your faith in the water, or in food and drink,
but in the giver of these things.

 

[vic1980]

I was wondering if you all could help me find where the scripture says baptism is just a symbol one can choose to do if they want.
Thanks...

( note: looking for scripture here... not your opinions. )

Acts 19:3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."

Acts 19:4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him,that is, in Jesus".

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Paul baptized these men as John the baptist did, but in Jesus name. So according to scripture they were baptized twice. Paul an apostle of Jesus Christ baptized these men , it seem very important.

thee only person i've read upon .that we have no clue if he was baptised, was the thief on the cross.

God Bless

 

[Fishbait]

I was wondering if you all could help me find where the scripture says baptism is just a symbol one can choose to do if they want.
Thanks...

( note: looking for scripture here... not your opinions. )

No one can help you find "where the scripture says baptism is just a symbol one can choose to do if they want." A needle in a haystack can't be found if one isn't there.

Here's a trick question for you grasshopper: "What two words, when combined hold the most letters?"

 

[IAm3rd]

The Baptism is of Spirit. If you are not Baptized in the Spirit, then how can you be raised unto new life eternal?
We were born once of water in physical birth.
We must be born again, not of water of our mother, or anything on earth,
but of Spirit. Read Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus.
Born of water=birth from womb
Born of Spirit=Baptized by the Spirit

John baptized with water, we are baptized by Spirit.

The ceremonial washing is a symbol of the spiritual baptism that we received in the Holy Spirit.
It is not an optional thing. It is a command.
But it is still only a symbol.

There is no power in any rite or ceremony or work.
The power is in the finished work of Christ, and the continued work of the Spirit.

Just as the Communion that we have in Christ is actually gained in His sacrifice,
We are commanded to use the symbol of that sacrifice (the bread and wine) to remind us of the spiritual reality.

So it is with water baptism. The actual Baptism is in the Spirit,
But we are commanded to use the symbol of that Baptism (water immersion) to remind us of the spiritual reality.

Please don't place your faith in the water, or in food and drink,
but in the giver of these things.

Nobody places their faith in water... if thats what you got from this conversation you are mistaken.
And I hear you, and respect your opinions... but at the end of the day I have a boat load of scriptures that say baptism is for the remission of sin, and baptism now saves you, Ananias telling Paul to be baptized to wash away his sins ( after he already was believing in Christ! ) on and on and on... and when we leave the history of the scriptures and read the Church Fathers on the topic they continue the trend... in fact your point of view is completely absent from history until post reformation. Doesnt that give you pause ???

 

[IAm3rd]

No one can help you find "where the scripture says baptism is just a symbol one can choose to do if they want." A needle in a haystack can't be found if one isn't there.

Here's a trick question for you grasshopper: "What two words, when combined hold the most letters?"

Post office

 

[sacraig67]

OK iAm3rd here is the question you need to ask yourself...have I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. If you feel you need to be baptized the get baptized. If you feel you don't need to get baptized then dont. If you have accepted Jesus as your Lord and savior I think you are good.

 

[SolidGround]

Nobody places their faith in water... if thats what you got from this conversation you are mistaken.
And I hear you, and respect your opinions... but at the end of the day I have a boat load of scriptures that say baptism is for the remission of sin, and baptism now saves you, Ananias telling Paul to be baptized to wash away his sins ( after he already was believing in Christ! ) on and on and on... and when we leave the history of the scriptures and read the Church Fathers on the topic they continue the trend... in fact your point of view is completely absent from history until post reformation. Doesnt that give you pause ???

Water baptism and repentance are hand in hand.
Even the word "remission" (S.859) is dealing with the "release of one who was captive to", "letting go of", "deliverance from".
It indicates change and turning of ways.
This is a physical act, with a physical change, and is the manifestation of a spiritual reality.

The debate of sacraments, and their meanings and place, were very well debated in the first few hundred years.
The view of water baptism being a symbol and physical representation of Spirit Baptism is not a new doctrine.
The Catholic Church did and does reject it, but that means little to a Believer.

Ceremony is POWERFUL because of what the ceremony represents.
To neglect that ceremony is to neglect a command of Christ and the Apostles.


One last word. The thief on the cross went to the same place that all Believers go to upon death.
Abraham's Bosom/Paradise.
There are no unbelievers in that place.

Christ preached to the people in Noah's day through Noah while Noah lived,
because the Spirit of Christ lives and works in all Believers, and was in all the prophets.
Reread that passage. It does not say that Christ visited them in body, giving them a second chance.
I love the work of CS Lewis, but he got that one wrong.

 

[SolidGround]

OK iAm3rd here is the question you need to ask yourself...have I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. If you feel you need to be baptized the get baptized. If you feel you don't need to get baptized then dont. If you have accepted Jesus as your Lord and savior I think you are good.

Why wouldn't you?
Are you afraid of water?
It just seems like a rebellious spirit to not follow in the example of Christ into water baptism.

 

[sacraig67]

Um if you have read back in the thread you would see that I was baptized. It is Jesus death on the cross that saved us, not anything we do. Do you all believe that it was the blood of Christ that saved us from death? If so then I think that is final. If you think you still need to work then you need to read James.

 

[sacraig67]

You know what read the whole New Testament if you think you need to justify yourself before God. Nothing we do period can save us. Only the blood of Christ can save us from our sins. Before you reply to this read....then show me where it says anything I do can save me from my sins.

 

[SolidGround]

Um if you have read back in the thread you would see that I was baptized. It is Jesus death on the cross that saved us, not anything we do. Do you all believe that it was the blood of Christ that saved us from death? If so then I think that is final. If you think you still need to work then you need to read James.

Sorry, I didn't mean it like that. I was just hasty in posting, and not thinking about how the words would be received.
The "are you afraid of water" comment was totally out of line. Forgive me please.

I meant to anyone who rejects the water baptism, what could their motive or reason be?
I'm on your side in water baptism not being salvatory,
but I also see it as being commanded, just like not getting drunk is a command.
If we desire to be obedient, then we should make an effort to follow.

 

[sacraig67]

No worries thank you for being so honest and humble. Now I do believe we should be baptized as a show of our dedication to God but it doesn't save us. That is my main point here.

 

[IAm3rd]

One last word. The thief on the cross went to the same place that all Believers go to upon death.
Abraham's Bosom/Paradise.
There are no unbelievers in that place.

Christ preached to the people in Noah's day through Noah while Noah lived,
because the Spirit of Christ lives and works in all Believers, and was in all the prophets.
Reread that passage. It does not say that Christ visited them in body, giving them a second chance.
I love the work of CS Lewis, but he got that one wrong.

Actually Peter said after Christ died he went to proclaim to them... read it here :
1 Peter 3: [SUP]19 [/SUP]in which[SUP][c][/SUP] he went and proclaimed[SUP][d][/SUP] to the spirits in prison, [SUP]20 [/SUP]because[SUP][e][/SUP] they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

 

[IAm3rd]

No worries thank you for being so honest and humble. Now I do believe we should be baptized as a show of our dedication to God but it doesn't save us. That is my main point here.

But you realize Peter says it does ?
1 Peter 3: in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you...

you are literaly saying the opposite of scripture.