BAPTISM --- TWICE ??
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No...once a person dies their fate is sealed....Mormons do that and they called Baptismal Proxy for the dead which is why they are the leading experts on genealogies....it is false and contrary to the truth!
and NO I am not saying immersing an adult is not valid....unless there was no profession of faith .....all they got was wet!
and NO I am not saying immersing an adult is not valid....unless there was no profession of faith .....all they got was wet!
Are you kidding me?
"Of course I would
Why wouldnt I?"
You wouldn't get anywhere near him.
His security guards would pick you up and throw you away before you got anywhere near him.
Do you think they're stupid?
Or do you really think you could get to talk to him and tell him what you think?
And if you ever did get face to face with him, I doubt you would be so arrogant.
"Of course I would
Why wouldnt I?"You wouldn't get anywhere near him.
His security guards would pick you up and throw you away before you got anywhere near him.
Do you think they're stupid?
Or do you really think you could get to talk to him and tell him what you think?
And if you ever did get face to face with him, I doubt you would be so arrogant.
You're the one who brought up if I would say something to the pope and now your trying to make me feel little that I'd never get near him?
You asked the question and I answered it. Just because I hold a different view from you doesn't mean I'm being arrogant, it's what I think and it's what I would say if this exact conversation were to come up between him and I, and I would say it respectfully, not accusingly and I think we would have a good conversation about it.
I don't think the current pope would think that highly of himself that you appear to make him out to be.
I believe Jesus waited to get baptized until He was an adult in order to show us you don't get baptized as a baby, child, or teenager. As long as someone is still growing taller, they are still not an adult, and should be under the authority of their parents. "Children obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right." When you get baptized you are now making decisions for yourself instead of someone making them on your behalf.
All in that household could have been adults. There is no example or order to baptize babies, kids, or teens, so you can't conclude that. But Jesus had no sin to wash away- so you can conclude that He was showing us what to do because He's our Leader and we must follow His example.
To get baptized is to die to yourself, bury your sinful self in the watery grave of baptism, and be raised a new creature in Christ. What saves us from our sins? Christ's blood. Where did Jesus shed His blood? In His death. "Or don't you know that all who were baptized into Christ were baptized into His death? In order that just as He was raised from the dead, we might also walk in newness of life." Romans 6:3 (Those in Christ will be saved, and this is how we get into Christ).
This is obeying the gospel. The Bible says that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It also says, "With flames of fire (hell) He will take vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of His Son."
A false religion is one that does not match the doctrine of Christ (New Testament/New Covenant). Such as religions that teach all you have to do is believe, or ask Jesus into your heart. The Bible says "If anyone comes to you with a different gospel, do not let him into your house." That would have not been said if God didn't foreknow that there would be different gospels introduced. There are not many faiths (beliefs)- there is only one real Lord, Faith, and Baptism. All others are false.
1Peter 3:21 "This water symbolized baptism- which now saves you. Not by removing dirt from the body, but by a clean conscience toward God." When you are baptized God performs 'circumcision of the heart' (Colossians 2:14).
Believing did not save Paul. Fasting did not save Paul. Being healed did not save Paul. Praying did not save Paul from his sins- so what did? Ananias said to Paul "What are you waiting for? Arise, be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord."
All in that household could have been adults. There is no example or order to baptize babies, kids, or teens, so you can't conclude that. But Jesus had no sin to wash away- so you can conclude that He was showing us what to do because He's our Leader and we must follow His example.
To get baptized is to die to yourself, bury your sinful self in the watery grave of baptism, and be raised a new creature in Christ. What saves us from our sins? Christ's blood. Where did Jesus shed His blood? In His death. "Or don't you know that all who were baptized into Christ were baptized into His death? In order that just as He was raised from the dead, we might also walk in newness of life." Romans 6:3 (Those in Christ will be saved, and this is how we get into Christ).
This is obeying the gospel. The Bible says that the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It also says, "With flames of fire (hell) He will take vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of His Son."
A false religion is one that does not match the doctrine of Christ (New Testament/New Covenant). Such as religions that teach all you have to do is believe, or ask Jesus into your heart. The Bible says "If anyone comes to you with a different gospel, do not let him into your house." That would have not been said if God didn't foreknow that there would be different gospels introduced. There are not many faiths (beliefs)- there is only one real Lord, Faith, and Baptism. All others are false.
1Peter 3:21 "This water symbolized baptism- which now saves you. Not by removing dirt from the body, but by a clean conscience toward God." When you are baptized God performs 'circumcision of the heart' (Colossians 2:14).
Believing did not save Paul. Fasting did not save Paul. Being healed did not save Paul. Praying did not save Paul from his sins- so what did? Ananias said to Paul "What are you waiting for? Arise, be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord."
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I was baptized as a Catholic in 1995 in the military, back when I didn't even believe in God and was just going through the motions "just in case". I don't have any interest in going through another baptism. Even if supposing I someday become a believer and consider myself "saved", I'm still not going to do it. No good reason. Just don't want to.
I've asked about baptism in the past around my town, and the only ones willing to do it are through specific churches, and I am not about to hang my hat on any specific denomination. I'm not joining a [fill in the blank] church.
I'm ignorant, stubborn, cantankerous, unwilling to learn, argumentative, and I enjoy being the odd one out, so take any of what I've just said as the ranting of a secular loser and disregard it.
...you asked for my thoughts though, so that's what you got.
I've asked about baptism in the past around my town, and the only ones willing to do it are through specific churches, and I am not about to hang my hat on any specific denomination. I'm not joining a [fill in the blank] church.
I'm ignorant, stubborn, cantankerous, unwilling to learn, argumentative, and I enjoy being the odd one out, so take any of what I've just said as the ranting of a secular loser and disregard it.
...you asked for my thoughts though, so that's what you got.
D
So.... when he prays about it, what does the Spirit tell him in his heart on the matter? That should be the litmus test.
My daughter was 'sprinkled' and dedicated in a church when she was 2. That was more for me... publically committing to my church that I would raise her in a Christian home /model Christian values. She was saved when she was 9 but rededicated her life last year at the age of 13 and requested to be baptised then. We had many conversations prior to it as to the meaning of that and she was adamant that she was ready and wanted it. It wasn't 'forced' or required by our church so I have every confidence she knew what it meant and wanted to do it.
I have been baptized twice - the first was at age 7 when I dedicated my life to Christ. Baptism was a requirement of the church I attended then, but I knew what I was doing and was happy to do it. I was baptized again when I was 22. It was a very personal decision. I don't believe the first one was any less 'valid' (even though it was required) because my spirit was in agreement with it. However, at the age of 22, I was undergoing some significant spiritual growth and wanted to personally connect with God in that particular way. I don't regret or doubt either experience.
So, this is all to say... yes, the Bible says we should. Beyond that, it is a very personal experience and one that should come from the heart. (God sees the heart after all... I Samuel 16:7).
My daughter was 'sprinkled' and dedicated in a church when she was 2. That was more for me... publically committing to my church that I would raise her in a Christian home /model Christian values. She was saved when she was 9 but rededicated her life last year at the age of 13 and requested to be baptised then. We had many conversations prior to it as to the meaning of that and she was adamant that she was ready and wanted it. It wasn't 'forced' or required by our church so I have every confidence she knew what it meant and wanted to do it.
I have been baptized twice - the first was at age 7 when I dedicated my life to Christ. Baptism was a requirement of the church I attended then, but I knew what I was doing and was happy to do it. I was baptized again when I was 22. It was a very personal decision. I don't believe the first one was any less 'valid' (even though it was required) because my spirit was in agreement with it. However, at the age of 22, I was undergoing some significant spiritual growth and wanted to personally connect with God in that particular way. I don't regret or doubt either experience.
So, this is all to say... yes, the Bible says we should. Beyond that, it is a very personal experience and one that should come from the heart. (God sees the heart after all... I Samuel 16:7).
This can't be shown WITHOUT A DOUBT.
AllenW had a good point in this post of his:
Originally Posted by AllenW View Post
In Acts 16:31 and beyond, salvation was offered to the jailer and his household.
The jailer believed, had his whole household baptized, then they rejoiced because THEY ALL BELIEVED IN GOD!
Therefore, infants could not have been included unless they had the ability to believe.
AllenW had a good point in this post of his:
Originally Posted by AllenW View Post
In Acts 16:31 and beyond, salvation was offered to the jailer and his household.
The jailer believed, had his whole household baptized, then they rejoiced because THEY ALL BELIEVED IN GOD!
Therefore, infants could not have been included unless they had the ability to believe.
Of course I would Why wouldnt I?
I look around the room I'm in at work and everyone believes how they think and what they do is right in their own eyes but none of it matches up to God's standard. I could be thinking or doing many things that I think I'm doing right until God sheds light on it to show me otherwise.
There is nothing (that I am aware of) that says if a baby isn't baptised that it is going to hell...that is my understanding of why babies are baptised, please correct me if I'm wrong. And it does not mean that when they die as an adult that they will be with our Father. One MUST be born again.
Why wouldnt I? I look around the room I'm in at work and everyone believes how they think and what they do is right in their own eyes but none of it matches up to God's standard. I could be thinking or doing many things that I think I'm doing right until God sheds light on it to show me otherwise.
There is nothing (that I am aware of) that says if a baby isn't baptised that it is going to hell...that is my understanding of why babies are baptised, please correct me if I'm wrong. And it does not mean that when they die as an adult that they will be with our Father. One MUST be born again.
and knows our Lord
and believes they are doing everything right, then this is what they will be judged upon.
I've said many times that if our DOCTRINE saves us we're in trouble.
JESUS saves us not our doctrine. Many churches believe and teach in incorrect doctrine. Does this mean their entire congregation is lost? No. God is a merciful God.
Once God sheds light, then you're REQUIRED to do as God has shown you and instructed you to do.
The CC DOES NOT believe that unbaptized babies go to hell.
This would be an unjust God indeed.
And yes, even though oe is baptized as a baby, he must still know Jesus before he dies and must believe in Him to be saed.
I think he was grasping a little bit.... in that society, children were not usually discussed much... when talking about "everyone", I believe they nearly were always talking about adults. Unless the discussion was specifically about a child, or children. Many times, "everyone" didn't even include women... only grown men.
So, I think that most scholars would conclude that "all of his household" meant only the adults...
If you take the majority of the examples in scripture, there is no way that a baby, or even a young child could meet the description of a person needing/wanting baptism....
reading what WE want into scripture is not a good practice....this is why we have so many different "right" denominations now.. what does the word say, when read prayerfully, and honestly, with no agenda?
So, I think that most scholars would conclude that "all of his household" meant only the adults...
If you take the majority of the examples in scripture, there is no way that a baby, or even a young child could meet the description of a person needing/wanting baptism....
reading what WE want into scripture is not a good practice....this is why we have so many different "right" denominations now.. what does the word say, when read prayerfully, and honestly, with no agenda?
Sorry I should have clarified.
I mentioned in my post that I was baptised (well sprinkled) in an Anglican.
What I did not say that before it happened the youth pastor questioned one day to me that I shouldn't get baptised because I let a swear word slip. His words were "That's why I don't want to baptise you"
So that's what I meant by regeneration, that one life.
So a person does not have to be seen to be conforming to a particular lifestyle in order to be saved.
That's the biggest stumbling block that I see in believers who have not been baptised and that is "I still sin"
I mentioned in my post that I was baptised (well sprinkled) in an Anglican.
What I did not say that before it happened the youth pastor questioned one day to me that I shouldn't get baptised because I let a swear word slip. His words were "That's why I don't want to baptise you"
So that's what I meant by regeneration, that one life.
So a person does not have to be seen to be conforming to a particular lifestyle in order to be saved.
That's the biggest stumbling block that I see in believers who have not been baptised and that is "I still sin"
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thats where peopl have taken that great opportunity and shamed it, it says s so sad religion always screws up Gods things,
baptism should b a time to give your testimony, with your friends, with your church, and maybe through that some of your non believeing friends end up coming to God,
thats the way my current church views it, it is a party, a celebration, an outreach event, not a religious event where we are limited.
baptism should b a time to give your testimony, with your friends, with your church, and maybe through that some of your non believeing friends end up coming to God,
thats the way my current church views it, it is a party, a celebration, an outreach event, not a religious event where we are limited.
That is an extremely bad precedent to set... if scripture doesn't say you can't do it, then it's ok to do it?
So, watermelon or tomato juice would be ok for communion? Fruit of the vine, right?
Baptizing in a large vat of beer ok? Doesn't say you can't....
How about baptizing our pets?
The word never mentioned marijuana, or LSD either... so, why not?
I mean, come on.... you have to use some genuine discernment here...
So, watermelon or tomato juice would be ok for communion? Fruit of the vine, right?
Baptizing in a large vat of beer ok? Doesn't say you can't....
How about baptizing our pets?
The word never mentioned marijuana, or LSD either... so, why not?
I mean, come on.... you have to use some genuine discernment here...
I agree.
Just having a little problem with what baptism is...then.
I think it would have to be determined WHY Jesus said to be baptized.
Baptism is an outward expression of an inward change.
I agree.
But is it also a change that occurs in the spirit of the person?
Does a person only have a spirit AFTER being born again?
I believe in the trichotomy of the person:
Body
Soul
Spirit
It would seem that baptism causes some kind of change in the spirit.
Or is it just a "ritual" like we accuse the CC of doing?
Just having a little problem with what baptism is...then.
I think it would have to be determined WHY Jesus said to be baptized.
Baptism is an outward expression of an inward change.
I agree.
But is it also a change that occurs in the spirit of the person?
Does a person only have a spirit AFTER being born again?
I believe in the trichotomy of the person:
Body
Soul
Spirit
It would seem that baptism causes some kind of change in the spirit.
Or is it just a "ritual" like we accuse the CC of doing?
Baptism is a birth... how "perfect" does a baby have to be, in order to be born?
How "perfect" do we have to be, to be born again?
How "well" do we have to be, before we can get into the hospital?
I don't know your youth pastor, but his insistence on your perfection before he would "allow" you to be baptized is the epitome of "religion" over God. He should be ashamed, and with that attitude and belief system, should NOT be teaching anyone, much less young people...
How "perfect" do we have to be, to be born again?
How "well" do we have to be, before we can get into the hospital?
I don't know your youth pastor, but his insistence on your perfection before he would "allow" you to be baptized is the epitome of "religion" over God. He should be ashamed, and with that attitude and belief system, should NOT be teaching anyone, much less young people...