Baptismal Regeneration - Excerpts by Charles Spurgeon

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B

BradC

Guest
#1
"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."—Mark 16:15-16.

EXCERPT 1

I find that the great error which we have to contend with throughout England (and it is growing more and more), is one in direct opposition to my text, well known to you as the doctrine of baptismal regeneration. We will confront this dogma with the assertion, that BAPTISM WITHOUT FAITH SAVES NO ONE. The text says, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;" but whether a man be baptized or no, it asserts that "he that believeth not shall be damned:" so that baptism does not save the unbeliever, nay, it does not in any degree exempt him from the common doom of all the ungodly. He may have baptism, or he may not have baptism, but if he believeth not, he shall be in any case most surely damned. Let him be baptized by immersion or sprinkling, in his infancy, or in his adult age, if he be not led to put his trust in Jesus Christ—if he remaineth an unbeliever, then this terrible doom is pronounced upon him—"He that believeth not shall be damned."
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#2
"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."—Mark 16:15-16.

EXCERPT 1

I find that the great error which we have to contend with throughout England (and it is growing more and more), is one in direct opposition to my text, well known to you as the doctrine of baptismal regeneration. We will confront this dogma with the assertion, that BAPTISM WITHOUT FAITH SAVES NO ONE. The text says, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;" but whether a man be baptized or no, it asserts that "he that believeth not shall be damned:" so that baptism does not save the unbeliever, nay, it does not in any degree exempt him from the common doom of all the ungodly. He may have baptism, or he may not have baptism, but if he believeth not, he shall be in any case most surely damned. Let him be baptized by immersion or sprinkling, in his infancy, or in his adult age, if he be not led to put his trust in Jesus Christ—if he remaineth an unbeliever, then this terrible doom is pronounced upon him—"He that believeth not shall be damned."
arguing with yourself Redster?:)

for the record:

....

you said -

"You need to post this article by Charles Spurgeon and let the winds of conviction blow as they may. If you choose not to, I will, because it is needed and extremely relevant to the faith of believers as part of the doctrine of Christ and the church.

Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth. - BradC"

....

"this water baptism.....involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new"

i guess you'll want to retract or modify that ^ thrash-reaction-post:p
otherwise ppl will think you believe it.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#3
"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."—Mark 16:15-16.

EXCERPT 1

I find that the great error which we have to contend with throughout England (and it is growing more and more), is one in direct opposition to my text, well known to you as the doctrine of baptismal regeneration. We will confront this dogma with the assertion, that BAPTISM WITHOUT FAITH SAVES NO ONE. The text says, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;" but whether a man be baptized or no, it asserts that "he that believeth not shall be damned:" so that baptism does not save the unbeliever, nay, it does not in any degree exempt him from the common doom of all the ungodly. He may have baptism, or he may not have baptism, but if he believeth not, he shall be in any case most surely damned. Let him be baptized by immersion or sprinkling, in his infancy, or in his adult age, if he be not led to put his trust in Jesus Christ—if he remaineth an unbeliever, then this terrible doom is pronounced upon him—"He that believeth not shall be damned."
as much as i enjoy Spurgeon, heres what he believed about infants and salvation....do you agree with him Redster`

On what ground, then, do we believe the child to be saved? We believe it to be as lost on the rest of mankind, and as truly condemned by the sentence which said, "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." It is saved because it is elect. In the compass of election, in the Lamb's Book of Life, we believe there shall be found written millions of souls who are only shown on earth, and then stretch their wings for heaven. They are saved, too, because they were redeemed by the precious blood of Jesus Christ. He who shed his blood for all his people, bought them with the same price with which he redeemed their parents, and therefore are they saved because Christ was sponsor for them, and suffered in their room and stead. They are saved, again not without regeneration, for, "except a man"—the text does not mean an adult man but a person, a being of the human race—"except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." No doubt, in some mysterious manner the Spirit of God regenerates the infant soul, and it enters into glory made meet to be a partaker of the inheritance of the saints in light.

Infant Salvation

We believe, therefore, that even before the intellect can work, God, who worketh not by the will of man, nor by blood, but by the mysterious agency of his Holy Spirit, creates the infant soul a new creature in Christ Jesus, and then it enters into the "rest which remaineth for the people of God."

Infant Salvation

....

simple question BradC

do you agree with Mr. Spurgeon....who like listening to very much.
 
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B

BradC

Guest
#4
as much as i enjoy Spurgeon, heres what he believed about infants and salvation....do you agree with him Redster`

On what ground, then, do we believe the child to be saved? We believe it to be as lost on the rest of mankind, and as truly condemned by the sentence which said, "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." It is saved because it is elect. In the compass of election, in the Lamb's Book of Life, we believe there shall be found written millions of souls who are only shown on earth, and then stretch their wings for heaven. They are saved, too, because they were redeemed by the precious blood of Jesus Christ. He who shed his blood for all his people, bought them with the same price with which he redeemed their parents, and therefore are they saved because Christ was sponsor for them, and suffered in their room and stead. They are saved, again not without regeneration, for, "except a man"—the text does not mean an adult man but a person, a being of the human race—"except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." No doubt, in some mysterious manner the Spirit of God regenerates the infant soul, and it enters into glory made meet to be a partaker of the inheritance of the saints in light.

Infant Salvation

We believe, therefore, that even before the intellect can work, God, who worketh not by the will of man, nor by blood, but by the mysterious agency of his Holy Spirit, creates the infant soul a new creature in Christ Jesus, and then it enters into the "rest which remaineth for the people of God."

Infant Salvation

....

simple question BradC

do you agree with Mr. Spurgeon....who like listening to very much.
You posted, so you answer first and I will follow and my answer will not be based upon anything that you have answered.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#5
You posted, so you answer first and I will follow and my answer will not be based upon anything that you have answered.
oh grow up.
you know what i believe.

i know what you believe, but you apparently dont.
you posted Spurgeon claiming infants shouldnt be baptized. i posted him saying God regenerates them anyways.

what da diff dude.

you need a new hammer.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#6
Any position that takes a wrong view of the blood of Jesus Christ cannot be correct. Water baptism cannot save. Infants are not condemned because they are innocent. Infants receive nothing because we baptize them. To find comfort in difficult situations we often pursue questionable reasoning regarding the scriptures when the truth they teach is in the end the most comfort we may obtain. God is a God of mercy. Were it not so we all would have perished without remedy long ago.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#7
Any position that takes a wrong view of the blood of Jesus Christ cannot be correct. Water baptism cannot save. Infants are not condemned because they are innocent.
sigh....water doesnt save.
cant ya read what is posted, even by that terrible awful LCMS:confused:

Ephesians 4
4There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

....

5. Similarly "faith" and "baptism" (the sacramental seal of faith) are connected (Mr 16:16; Col 2:12). Compare 1Co 12:13, "Faith" is not here that which we believe, but the act of believing, the mean by which we apprehend the "one Lord." "Baptism" is specified, being the sacrament whereby we are incorporated into the "one body." Not the Lord's Supper, which is an act of matured communion on the part of those already incorporate, "a symbol of union, not of unity" [Ellicott]. In 1Co 10:17, where a breach of union was in question, it forms the rallying point [Alford]. - JFBBC


1 Therefore I, the prisoner united with the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called. 2 Always be humble, gentle and patient, bearing with one another in love, 3 and making every effort to preserve the unity the Spirit gives through the binding power of shalom. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as when you were called you were called to one hope. 5 And there is one Lord, one trust, one immersion, 6 and one God, the Father of all, who rules over all, works through all and is in all. - Ephesians 4; Ephesians 5 (Complete Jewish Bible)


Infants are not condemned because they are innocent.
Calvinists would disagree with you (Spurgeon)
Pelagius and Finney would agree with you.
 
B

BradC

Guest
#8
oh grow up.
you know what i believe.

i know what you believe, but you apparently dont.
you posted Spurgeon claiming infants shouldnt be baptized. i posted him saying God regenerates them anyways.

what da diff dude.

you need a new hammer.
None of what you have said changes the fact that Lutherans believe in baptismal regeneration or that there is no regeneration of the soul without water baptism (which also includes infants). If you adhere to their doctrine then you also believe in the same and that is a dangerous doctrine that has misled many to believe in a false gospel. If you do not believe in baptismal regeneration as the Lutheran's teach, then you are contrary and if contrary why do you support their doctrine? Baptismal regeneration takes away from any sinner the promise of being justified by faith when they believe upon Christ and it minimizes as secondary the work of the cross and the blood of Christ. Infants, who have not reached the age of accountability and do not have a capacity to come under conviction of the Spirit, are covered by the blood of Christ where sin and sins were paid for and crucified. When they reach that age and come under conviction through the preaching of the gospel they can believe and be saved and justified by the blood that covered them as an infant and now has cleansed them from all sin including purging the conscience from dead works. That's not hard to understand now is it?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#9
Infants, who have not reached the age of accountability and do not have a capacity to come under conviction of the Spirit, are covered by the blood of Christ where sin and sins were paid for and crucified.
ALL infants in the world you mean to say.....little babies in Radical foaming at the mouth threatening unbelieving Chosen Israel Islamists families too:confused:

maybe thats why you are pro-war.

eh..enough of this today wit ya.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#10
sigh....water doesnt save.
cant ya read what is posted, even by that terrible awful LCMS:confused:


Ephesians 4
4There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

....

5. Similarly "faith" and "baptism" (the sacramental seal of faith) are connected (Mr 16:16; Col 2:12). Compare 1Co 12:13, "Faith" is not here that which we believe, but the act of believing, the mean by which we apprehend the "one Lord." "Baptism" is specified, being the sacrament whereby we are incorporated into the "one body." Not the Lord's Supper, which is an act of matured communion on the part of those already incorporate, "a symbol of union, not of unity" [Ellicott]. In 1Co 10:17, where a breach of union was in question, it forms the rallying point [Alford]. - JFBBC


1 Therefore I, the prisoner united with the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called. 2 Always be humble, gentle and patient, bearing with one another in love, 3 and making every effort to preserve the unity the Spirit gives through the binding power of shalom. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as when you were called you were called to one hope. 5 And there is one Lord, one trust, one immersion, 6 and one God, the Father of all, who rules over all, works through all and is in all. - Ephesians 4; Ephesians 5 (Complete Jewish Bible)

Calvinists would disagree with you (Spurgeon)
Pelagius and Finney would agree with you.
Here's what that awful LCMS site says:
What benefits does Baptism give?
It works forgiveness of sins,rescues from death and the devil,
and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words
and promises of God declare
. Which are these words and
promises of God? Christ our Lord says in the last chapter of
Mark:“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,but whoever
does not believe will be condemned”(Mark 16:16).
In and through Baptism,God cleanses us from all of our
sins, snatches us from the power of Satan, and gives us everlasting
life
.It is all God’s doing as He gives us His blessing.It is
His promise.In Baptism,our Triune God imparts to each of us
personally the gifts the Lord Jesus Christ won for the world
through His life,suffering,death,and resurrection
.
Please see
especially Gal.3:27;Col.1:13–14; 1 Peter 3:21;Titus 3:5–7 and
1 Cor.6:11.
How can water do such great things?
Certainly not just water,but the word of God in and with the
water does these things, along with the faith which trusts this
word of God in the water. For without God’s Word the water is
plain water and no Baptism.But with the word of God it is a
Baptism,that is,a life-giving water,rich in grace,and a washing
of the new birth in the Holy Spirit,as St.Paul says in Titus,chapter
three: “He saved us through the washing of rebirth and
renewal in the Holy Spirit,whom He poured out on us generously
through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that,having been justified by
His grace,we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
This is a trustworthy saying”
(Titus 3:5–8).

This group can't seem to separate water baptism & baptism in Christ.
:rolleyes:
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#11
None of what you have said changes the fact that Lutherans believe in baptismal regeneration or that there is no regeneration of the soul without water baptism
you said:

"You need to post this article by Charles Spurgeon and let the winds of conviction blow as they may. If you choose not to, I will, because it is needed and extremely relevant to the faith of believers as part of the doctrine of Christ and the church.

Another thing, if I may, this water baptism by immersion that we have as NT believers was never given to Israel or its commonwealth because this baptism involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new, a putting off of the old man and a putting on with the one new man, and that baptism is for the church who are in Christ through the new birth. - BradC"

....

"this water baptism.....involves resurrection, out with the old and in with the new"

hahaha.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#12
Here's what that awful LCMS site says:
What benefits does Baptism give?
It works forgiveness of sins,rescues from death and the devil,
and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words
and promises of God declare
. Which are these words and
promises of God? Christ our Lord says in the last chapter of
Mark:“Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,but whoever
does not believe will be condemned”(Mark 16:16).
In and through Baptism,God cleanses us from all of our
sins, snatches us from the power of Satan, and gives us everlasting
life
.It is all God’s doing as He gives us His blessing.It is
His promise.In Baptism,our Triune God imparts to each of us
personally the gifts the Lord Jesus Christ won for the world
through His life,suffering,death,and resurrection
.
Please see
especially Gal.3:27;Col.1:13–14; 1 Peter 3:21;Titus 3:5–7 and
1 Cor.6:11.
How can water do such great things?
Certainly not just water,but the word of God in and with the
water does these things, along with the faith which trusts this
word of God in the water. For without God’s Word the water is
plain water and no Baptism.But with the word of God it is a
Baptism,that is,a life-giving water,rich in grace,and a washing
of the new birth in the Holy Spirit,as St.Paul says in Titus,chapter
three: “He saved us through the washing of rebirth and
renewal in the Holy Spirit,whom He poured out on us generously
through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that,having been justified by
His grace,we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
This is a trustworthy saying”
(Titus 3:5–8).

This group can't seem to separate water baptism & baptism in Christ.
:rolleyes:
you mean your Baptism in The Holy Ghost (that you never were promised cuz it was for His witnesses, the real Apostles...even though that term appears nowhere).

baptized INTO Christ....into..... where is your baptism in Christ

bye then
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
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#13
Q: How does faith play a role in infant Baptism? Is faith later taken care of when the child is
confirmed?
A: Lutherans believe that the Bible teaches that a person is saved by God's grace alone through faith
alone in Jesus Christ. Baptism, we believe, is one of the miraculous means of grace (together with God's
written and spoken Word) through which God creates the gift of faith in a person's heart.
Although we
do not claim to understand how this happens or how it is possible, we believe (because of what the
Bible says about Baptism) that when an infant is baptized God creates faith in the heart of that infant.
This faith cannot yet, of course, be expressed or articulated, yet it is real and present all the same
(see,
e.g., 1 Pet 3:21; Acts 2:38-39; Titus 3:5-6; Matt. 18:6; Luke 1:15; 2 Tim.3:15; Gal. 3:26-27; Rom. 6:4; Col.
2:11-12; 1 Cor. 12:13).
Parents and sponsors of a baptized child bear the responsibility of teaching this child God's Word so that
the child's faith may remain alive and grow (Matt. 28:18-20). Confirmation is a time-honored church
tradition (not required by God's Word, but-we believe-useful nonetheless) in which the child baptized as
an infant is given the opportunity to confess for himself or herself the faith that he or she was unable to
confess as an infant. Faith is not "created" at confirmation, but rather confessed for all to hear, so that
the church can join and rejoice in this public confession, which has its roots in the faith which God
Himself created in Baptism.

Q: You say that infant baptism is ONE way of salvation. Since this practice was unknown in the New
Testament or even the early Catholic Church, it is speculative. The Bible says that repentance is a prerequisite
for faith. I repented at five, so it can be early, but not in someone's arms.
A: Infants are included in "all nations" who are to be baptized (Matt. 28:19). Certainly they were
included in Peter's Pentecost exhortation in Acts 2:38, 39: "Repent and be baptized everyone one of
you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins....The promise is for you and your
children and for all who are far off–for all whom the Lord our God will call."
Whole households, everyone in the family, were baptized in the beginning of New Testament times,
which in all probability included infants (Acts 16:15 and 33). [The "household" formula used here by
Luke has Old Testament precedent, with special reference also to small children, as for example in 1
Sam. 22:16, 19; see Joachim Jeremias, Infant Baptism in the First Four Centuries, 22-23.] In Romans 6,
the Holy Spirit tells us in the Word that in Baptism we have been united with Jesus' death and
resurrection–regenerated, dying to sin and rising to new life. That happens to infants when baptized
(Gal. 3:27). "For as many of you who have been baptized have put on Christ." Baptism through the Word
creates the faith necessary to receive salvation for infants. Infants can have faith. In Mark 10:14 Jesus
said, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to
such as these." The Greek word in this text is "paidia" which means babes in arms. Infants can belong to
the kingdom of God. "From the lips of children and infants, You have ordained praise...." Psalm 8:2. "Yet
You brought me out of the womb, You made me trust in You even at my mother's breast" Psalm 22:9.
From the beginning of New Testament Christianity at Pentecost to our time, unbroken and
uninterrupted, the Church has baptized babies. Polycarp (69-155 AD), a disciple of the Apostle John, was
baptized as an infant. Justin Martyr (100-166 AD) of the next generation, about the year 150 AD, states
in his Dialog with Trypho The Jew that Baptism is the circumcision of the New Testament." Irenaeus
(130-200 AD) writes in Against Heresies II 22:4 that Jesus came to save all through means of Himself --
all, I say, who through Him are born again to God – infants and children, boys and youth, and old men."
Similar expressions are found in succeeding generations by Origen (185-254 AD) and Cyprian (215-258
AD), and at the Council of Carthage in 254 where the 66 bishops stated: "We ought not hinder any
person from Baptism and the grace of God....especially infants....those newly born." Origen wrote in his
Commentary on Romans 5:9: "For this also it was that the Church had from the Apostles a tradition to
give baptism even to infants." Origen also wrote in his Homily on Luke 14: "Infants are to be baptized for
the remission of sins." Cyprian's reply to a bishop who wrote to him regarding the baptism of infants
stated: "Should we wait until the 8th day as did the Jews in the circumcision? No, the child should be
baptized as soon as it is born."
Augustine (354-430 AD) wrote in De Genesi Ad Literam, 10:39 declared, "The custom of our mother
Church in baptizing infants must not be counted needless, nor believed to be other than a tradition of
the Apostles." Augustine further states: "...the whole Church which hastens to baptize infants, because
it unhesitatingly believes that otherwise they cannot possibly be vivified in Christ. In 517 AD, 10 rules of
discipline were framed for the Church in Spain. The fifth rule states that "...in case infants were ill...if
they were offered, to baptize them, even though it were the day that they were born...such was to be
done." (The History of Baptism by Robert Robinson, London, Thomas Knott, 1790, p.269)
 
May 2, 2011
1,134
8
0
#14
Brad,

I posted Spurgeon's Sermon for reference to the fact that a mere act or claim is not salvific. The Baptist's I do believe will never say that Baptism is not important.

I also posted a pic depicting the concept of a person coming to Christ by the way of the cross (the pic should have some indication of hearing and believing the gospel). The pic then shows the path of a person being baptized into a BODY of believers. Zone is correct now in saying that body needs to be of 'one accord' in it's doctrinal beliefs. Note also in the pic that there is ONE Head and One Lord. This is the difficult part for many organized religions and is a social phenomena of any group - leadership or headship. Who do we listen to, who do we answer to - A President, a B.Ish.Op, a Pope etc. The reason that PERSONAL belief and PERSONAL responsibility and PERSONAL accountability are important is because we cannot set up a strawman leader and then go by that person or make up things we want that person (or organization) to do and say for us. This is why any organization can and will be infiltrated and corrupted and the Body of Christ is a system of lively stones, flexibly connected. The new pillars of the church are as Peter and James and John.

I believe zone is not far off the mark in approach and doctrine, tho I do not subscribe to any particular religion. The idea is to understand the sociological and personal nature of behavior and to see there needs to be precepts and principles that guide that behavior. There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

The ACT of Baptism as a physical moment or event or the CLAIM of a profession to a belief system, in and of themselves do not constitute salvation apart from an understanding and acting upon of the precepts and principles of behavior that are the root and foundation of the scriptural call to do these things.

The hardest thing I have done in my life is to commit to adult baptism. Having been brought up in and surrounded by fairly fundamental religious beliefs, when the time came to question my religion as a young adult, it took an additional six months of study and contemplation before I could reconcile in my mind the need to be baptized before a congregation of believers and make a profession of faith in the scriptures to that congregation. It's the best thing I've ever done - commit to the scriptures. The rest is a walk in a sometimes dangerous, sometimes beautiful jungle ...

christian_poster_roaring_lion-r60dc6a66b72a4ea89c501368b5e456f0_qg1_8byvr_512.jpg jungle-survival.jpg
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#15
sigh....water doesnt save.
cant ya read what is posted, even by that terrible awful LCMS:confused:

Ephesians 4
4There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.

....

5. Similarly "faith" and "baptism" (the sacramental seal of faith) are connected (Mr 16:16; Col 2:12). Compare 1Co 12:13, "Faith" is not here that which we believe, but the act of believing, the mean by which we apprehend the "one Lord." "Baptism" is specified, being the sacrament whereby we are incorporated into the "one body." Not the Lord's Supper, which is an act of matured communion on the part of those already incorporate, "a symbol of union, not of unity" [Ellicott]. In 1Co 10:17, where a breach of union was in question, it forms the rallying point [Alford]. - JFBBC


1 Therefore I, the prisoner united with the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called. 2 Always be humble, gentle and patient, bearing with one another in love, 3 and making every effort to preserve the unity the Spirit gives through the binding power of shalom. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as when you were called you were called to one hope. 5 And there is one Lord, one trust, one immersion, 6 and one God, the Father of all, who rules over all, works through all and is in all. - Ephesians 4; Ephesians 5 (Complete Jewish Bible)
It does not matter who says it. Water baptism does not save. Grace is the means of salvation and that received through faith. I teach that believers ought to seek and receive water baptism after they are saved. I cannot support teaching that makes water baptism necessary to obtain or retain eternal salvation wrought in Gods grace. All believers are immersed in the Holy Spirit the moment they receive Christ as their Savior. One immersion evidenced by Christ when He breathed upon them the Holy Spirit and followed by many fillings for power as evidenced in Acts as first evidenced at Pentecost.
Calvinists would disagree with you (Spurgeon)
Pelagius and Finney would agree with you.
News flash...I do not care. God is a God of mercy and great compassion. If someone wishes to see God as a condemner of innocent souls of babies then that is between them and God. I am not required to account for what others believe only what I believe from and about my Lord. I can disagree with the men you cite and still consider them great contributers to the household of faith as long as we agree about Gods saving grace. I can read the same things you read and glean from it things vastly different from what you receive. But I cannot disagree with the bible on the blood and Gods saving grace or I am not part of the body of Christ. No need to fight or argue because God is right.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#16
[video=youtube;-VL95TDK9o4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VL95TDK9o4[/video]
 
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#17
[video=youtube;fNT0e-uo49Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNT0e-uo49Y[/video]
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#18
[video=youtube;ybuuCLJwQwY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybuuCLJwQwY[/video]
Start at 7:29
 
B

BradC

Guest
#20
I have been baptized by water immersion shortly after I was saved at 19 years of age and believe that all who trust in the name of Christ should do the same, if they are physically able. Water baptism is a declaration by the one being baptized that they acknowledge and understand the new birth through the death of the cross to their old man and the deeds of that old man. It is an act of obedience and each one must be convicted by the word and the Spirit to do so after they have trusted Christ for salvation.