" Be not deceived" some scripture

[Grace777x70]

remember these are word-for-word accounts of the true gospel of the grace of Christ being preached.

Here's Peter....shouldn't he have said "You need to forgive anyone first before you can receive God's forgiveness by the blood of Jesus"??

Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."


And the same thing for Paul - he didn't say 'You need to forgive first before we you can be forgiven by the blood of Jesus" ??


Acts 13:38 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

Or is it possible Jesus was talking about the law when He gave those words out for His disciples at the time they were still under law then?

The New Covenant didn't come into effect until Jesus died and rose again to obtain our eternal forgiveness.

Here Paul says that forgiveness is all based on "according to the riches of His grace "..not if we forgive first.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

This above is what I believe that the New Covenant is saying to us concerning forgiveness.

It is extremely important to read all scriptures in their context - even the words of Jesus. I understand this conflicts with some of our religious beliefs passed on by man-made traditions which nullify the grace of God.

The Cross of Christ changed from living according to law and we are now in the grace of Christ for forgiveness. It is not based on us. We forgive because we are forgiven - it's in our nature now.

Walk by the spirit and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.

If people believe something else- that is their choice....

Those dealing deceitfully say that some are saying "Everything in the words of Jesus are irrelevent and before the cross".

The truth is they really say "Some of the words of Jesus were spoken in the Old Covenant and were before the New Covenant". The New Covenant starts with the death of Jesus on the cross. - not in His birth.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

This above is what I believe that the New Covenant is saying to us concerning forgiveness.

It is extremely important to read all scriptures in their context - even the words of Jesus. I understand this conflicts with some of our religious beliefs passed on by man-made traditions which nullify the grace of God.

The Cross of Christ changed from living according to law and we are now in the grace of Christ for forgiveness. It is not based on us. We forgive because we are forgiven - it's in our nature now.

Walk by the spirit and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.

If people believe something else- that is their choice....

Those dealing deceitfully say that some are saying "Everything in the words of Jesus are irrelevent and before the cross".

The truth is they really say "Some of the words of Jesus were spoken in the Old Covenant and were before the New Covenant". The New Covenant starts with the death of Jesus on the cross. - not in His birth.

Bruce, I honestly wasn't trying to be deceitful. I was confused by something you said and so I said what it appeared like to me you were saying. I understand that people go off half cocked at one sentence someone says and makes a judgement or sticks them in a category and doesn't hear when they try to explain. (I've even seen you and I do it!) A lot of discussion is necessary before we can understand another person.

For instance, fran said earlier that works keep us saved. It took a lot of posts before I saw where her mind was in that statement. But by that time she had already been labeled so no one heard it. She said something like...works keep us saved in the sense that if we are abiding in Christ, we WILL have works.
(And they'll be good ones too, that He has prepared for us to do! )

 

[Grace777x70]

Bruce, I honestly wasn't trying to be deceitful. I was confused by something you said and so I said what it appeared like to me you were saying. I understand that people go off half cocked at one sentence someone says and makes a judgement or sticks them in a category and doesn't hear when they try to explain. (I've even seen you and I do it!) A lot of discussion is necessary before we can understand another person.

For instance, fran said earlier that works keep us saved. It took a lot of posts before I saw where her mind was in that statement. But by that time she had already been labeled so no one heard it. She said something like...works keep us saved in the sense that if we are abiding in Christ, we WILL have works.
(And they'll be good ones too, that He has prepared for us to do! )

I was not referring to you when I said people are dealing deceitfully in what is being said. I have never seen you act deceitfully at any time while on CC.....

Legitimate questions are good and needed in any healthy discussion.

And I agree that we need to listen to hear what is really being said but unfortunately some with foul behavior will deal in deceit even after the truth is known.


To those that continue to deal deceitfully - Paul says exactly what to do in Romans 16:17 until God grants them repentance.

We just pray for them and ask the Father to reveal Christ to all of us. We need Him!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Thank you, I'm very relieved.

 

[sevenseas]

Jesus is teaching what the spirit of prayer looks like the framework of How our prayers should look. its not to repeat repetitiously but the spirit of what He is teaching there Helps us who believe pray the right way if you examine His prayers elsewhere you find they also have much to teach us about prayer and the framework of prayer. the spirit of what prayer should be like, not by the letter, but the intent and disposition, the inclusive principles of prayer

there is so much confusion with some people inserting their NAR and WOF beliefs

both those groups pick and choose what appeals to them and call the rest of us religious

then, we are told we have malice if we respond to that

I would laugh, but it's a sad sad comment on the extremes some go to in order to avoid what they call 'religious'

I came across a NAR teacher who has a big article on the Lord's prayer and he goes through it step by step offering what he says is proof we should no longer pray this prayer

the entire thing is ridicuous because Jesus NEVER said pray this all the time or this is the only prayer. as I already pointed out, we are really taught to pray throughout the entire Bible

people who are more familiar with topical studies or those who seem to major on minors, seem to have difficulty in being able to do that. instead, they refute things by attempting to contrast the old and new testaments or saying what Paul taught outweighs what Jesus taught because Jesus had not died and rose from the dead yet

honestly, you can find anything you want to believe and someone teaching it, if you google long and hard enough

however the Bible is plain that EVERYTHING in it, is good for teaching and rebuke

it is easy to say oh yes, but it must be taken in context as long as you actually KNOW what the context is. some don't

sorry for repeating myself, but it seems to need repeating

 

[sevenseas]

little children are also innocent from the heart they arent scheming or refusing to believe what the Father says and telling Him the " real truth" little children will believe anything thier parents say, and also it shapes them and equips them with wisdom in doing so

well this verse is not about sitting on 'daddy's' lap, but close

Surely I have composed and quieted my soul; Like a weaned child rests against his mother, My soul is like a weaned child within me. Psalm 131:2

actually the entire Psalm is really nice and short to boot

1My heart is not proud, Lord,
my eyes are not haughty;
I do not concern myself with great matters
or things too wonderful for me.
2But I have calmed and quieted myself,
I am like a weaned child with its mother;
like a weaned child I am content.

3Israel, put your hope in the Lord
both now and forevermore.

 

[sevenseas]

I haven't read every post but enough that I really have to wonder where some get their teaching

with regards to whether or not God forgives us if we have not first forgiven

I think some is just common sense. if a person actually has the spirit of Christ, why on earth would they think they do not forgive or for that matter think they do not have to forgive? imo, it is complete nonsense to think otherwise

skipping past Jesus parable regarding the unfaithful servant whose debt was forgiven and who then goes on to NOT forgive someone who owed him far less then he owed his master...well, honestly, sounds more like someone went to pick the daisies a little too close the cliff and fell off

if God has forgiven you all your sins (and only you and God know just how bad they are...meaning every one of us of course cause thoughts count too) then how is it you are so misled as to assume He does not expect the same for you?

this is serious

I have never heard this teaching about not needing to forgive before, and I cannot believe I read it now

this is basic gospel 101. it is not religious and it is not old testament only

to say it is, is utter hogwash and that is not deceit or malice either

something is very very wrong if they accept the teaching that forgiveness is not a part of the very character of Christ

where does this teaching come from? I would seriously like to know who teaches this. I know who posted about it, but who is actually teaching it?

I just honestly am at a bit of a loss for words and I hope someone can actually tell me where this comes from. the thing about the Lord's prayer is a NAR teaching. the more I hear and learn about NAR, the more I believe it is demonic. it certainly isn't biblical

 

[followjesus]

I honestly agree with you. But this is what the “Law” does for me… I can measure my love for my Lord and neighbor by it. My father is 80 years old. That man can ride my …. And I grumble. People in general, the guy that cuts me off on the road, the girl supervisor I have and I think she is one nasty person, and I grumble… Sometimes, I think about one of my sisters, a heathen, no matter what she does she come up smelling like roses, trust me ungodly stuff, and I grumble… not in one of these scenarios, that are sad but true, have I put G-d first. Every one of these people are His creation, His love and when I grumble I basically told Him He either screwed up with them or with me because I am not walking in the peace that passes all understanding, the joy of the Lord is not filling my heart… something went wrong… maybe I should be honoring my father, maybe I should not murder my co-worker (since Y-shua took murder to a whole new level) and think about what a (bad word) I think she is, and maybe I should not be coveting what my sister has. If I can learn to do these things then I just might love my neighbor as myself. I admit crucifying my flesh daily is not my strong soot… heck half of the time I don’t see my flesh unless I’m looking at the Law, then I find true freedom. Only in Him, because of Him can I even start to keep it… Old and New Testament Law….. love the Lord with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself then you keep the Law…

what a GREAT post and great way to place it out there so simply. so gently and yet straight forward God Bless you and thank you for that Good example ( that i myself can Learn from) when presenting something in a better appearance, more gently. really a helpful comment here thank you from my Heart !!

 

[followjesus]

No, I am not saying that "all words" can be dis-regarded. That's the way some people think what is being said. Which is not true at all.

What is "really" being said is - we need to rightly divide all scripture through the finished works of Christ and not mix up the covenants.

Do you go to the priest to show him that you are healed now? Of course not. Do you tell people in order to be saved that they keep the law of Moses? Of course not.

Some people say that people are dis-regarding all the words of Jesus ( which is a complete falsehood ) in order to malign what is really being said.

So, the words of Jesus as well as all scripture needs to be viewed through Christ alone. I understand that this will sometimes "conflict" with our religious church teachings and cause some confusion and in some people they feel it is now their right to slander others because of it. It's just the flesh acting up. It happens to all of us.

As per the parable you mentioned. Here is a great example of Jesus preaching the need for a new heart.

If us Christians still think we have an evil heart - we have missed the true Christian life and we are ignorant of the new creation in Christ and we will remain a baby Christian all our lives.

The parable of the unforgiven servant in which the kingdom of heaven "may be compared to".... Matthew 18

We need to read all scripture in context of the finished work of Christ and what He did on the cross. To say that our sins are not forgiven in the believer after the cross is NOT the gospel.

We will forgive because we are in Christ now and have His nature in us - we need to have our minds renewed to this truth and we will walk in it.

Matt 18:35 says that God will not forgive unless you forgive from your heart.

This was Jesus giving them the law. Moses 2.0 as it shows their need for a Savior in order for Jesus to create in them a new heart that loves and forgives just like their Father does in Jesus.

Love always forgives - it's in our nature now because we are in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

We have a new heart now - so we can't really have unforgiveness in our hearts anymore which is why Jesus said ....

"If you do not forgive from your heart" ....this is to expose their need for a new heart which always forgives.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love now from our new hearts in Christ and our hearts cannot sin. So Jesus's verse above in Matthew 18 would not apply to the person in Christ as it is impossible for them to have sin in their heart and to not forgive. We have the very nature of God inside us now - righteousness and holiness.

Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 John 5:18 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him, and the evil one does not touch him.

1 John 3:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We need to preach and teach the true gospel of the grace of Christ so that the believer in Christ can grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus and walk out who they already are in their inner man - the new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

When we see Christ as in a mirror - we see true selves being reflected back and the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to reflect Christ that is in us now. 2 Cor 3:17-18

"We need to preach and teach the true gospel "


thats what JESUS did bruce its not for us to change a single word, its not what paul did when He said " the Gospel of Grace" He taught all of the same things with different words repentance paul taught it, forgiveing AS GOD has fogiven us pauls taught it Just like the unforgiving debtor parable" we forgiv because our debt has been wiped clean, that doesnt then mean were free to acrue more and more debt. God doesnt continually wipe out our debt again and again regardless of our actions. when someone dies for you and leaves a living will its not ok to disregard that persons will and claim all of thier possessions against what they have made clear. thats a farce.

Jesus taught the True Gospel of Grace and truth, there is no other Gospel but that Wich Jesus came and spoke and then died to usher into permanent authority. the sooner you accept Jesus Gospel the sooner you will Know Him. you cannot Know Jesus and disregard a single thing He taught those things you are disregarding will be your judgement. Knowing God is Good is A good thing, it wont force us to act right. but accepting Hois word will create us in His image. not the image we want to see oin Him but what He presented as the image of a child of God.

if people follow your logic they will have to then disregard what Jesus Himself, the Lord whos word will never change said.

Jesus matthew 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

you , naw thats not the true Gospel, listen to what im saying, its not biblical at all and wont agree with Jesus Christ, but listen to my long explaination of why Jesus understood God the Father Less than me and my mentors. <<<< big bowl of " red stew" ( let the reader understand that phrase.

Jesus Christ Luke 4:18-21 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

you " Listen to the true gospel that does not agree with Jesus...ill explain the real gospel"

Jesus Christ " matthew 7:24-27 "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

you " build upon the sand, build upon the sand...it costs less of you to build with no foundation...listen to the real truth, forget the Gospel ill teach you the real gospel."

Jesus Christ matthew 24:35 "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.


you " you need to look through this lens ill show you , then you will get the real truth everything changed listen to me"

Jesus Christ John 14:23-24 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

you " obedience has nothing to do with anything say grace grace listen to the real Gospel ill tell you what to believe dont Believe Gods words its a trap"

Jesus Christ " John 8:31-32 "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


you " listen to me, i dont agree with Jesus Gospel, ill tell you the true Gospel i learned from a modern day author He is telling the real truth Hell teach us all how to really understand jesus words. hell explain what verse applies to you and what doesnt, listen to me listen to my explanation "

Jesus Christ " luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."


you : Jesus was teaching the law 2.0. the real gospel is called the grace of Christ and ill tell you what the gospel is listen to me listen to me"


at some point bruce you should let go of the false doctrine that teaches you these outlandish things and Just come to Jesus, Hes always there but you cant deny His Words on salvation all of them every single thing He taught, and did you cant deny the King and claim to be a prince. the King is Good those who realize that will understand that His decrees are irrevocable and that He will not tell one person one thing and another another thats the very reason His word was written and preserved


the true Gospel Mark 1:1 "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Luke 1:1-4 "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, 2Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; 3It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, 4That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

you " ill tell you the true Gospel listen to me forget what the Gospel says ill tell yu the real truth be saved by thos invention of man listen to me listen to me."


i truly Hope your eyes eventually are opened but you would first have to remove the Blindfold of the gog

 

[followjesus]

I haven't read every post but enough that I really have to wonder where some get their teaching

with regards to whether or not God forgives us if we have not first forgiven

I think some is just common sense. if a person actually has the spirit of Christ, why on earth would they think they do not forgive or for that matter think they do not have to forgive? imo, it is complete nonsense to think otherwise

skipping past Jesus parable regarding the unfaithful servant whose debt was forgiven and who then goes on to NOT forgive someone who owed him far less then he owed his master...well, honestly, sounds more like someone went to pick the daisies a little too close the cliff and fell off

if God has forgiven you all your sins (and only you and God know just how bad they are...meaning every one of us of course cause thoughts count too) then how is it you are so misled as to assume He does not expect the same for you?

this is serious

I have never heard this teaching about not needing to forgive before, and I cannot believe I read it now

this is basic gospel 101. it is not religious and it is not old testament only

to say it is, is utter hogwash and that is not deceit or malice either

something is very very wrong if they accept the teaching that forgiveness is not a part of the very character of Christ

where does this teaching come from? I would seriously like to know who teaches this. I know who posted about it, but who is actually teaching it?

I just honestly am at a bit of a loss for words and I hope someone can actually tell me where this comes from. the thing about the Lord's prayer is a NAR teaching. the more I hear and learn about NAR, the more I believe it is demonic. it certainly isn't biblical

Joseph prince, paul ellis and those who follow that doctrine. you are right in your post here until we see through the nonsense of the devils words. " God says one thing, the serpent then comes behind God and tells us another thing" we are mising faith.

we dont first forgive anything, were forgiven and at that point we must forgive or just like the parable makes clear we are going to be called before the furious King who fogave us unmentionable debt, and then wouldnt forgive the man who owed us so little. One can say " its Christ in us" but truly its Christ in us when we are acting upon His living and eternal Words. that will never not be the ultimate authority.

the gog ( gospel of grace) presents itself as a second different gospel, no action good or bad has any bearing , just what they call " the finished work ofthe Cross" which means Jesus died and rose your saved no matter what, forgiven no matter what, repentance? not necassary, or " repentance really means change your mind" has nothing to do with your deeds" every single aspect of this false gospel is wrong forgiveness is just one part of it.


its truly God says one thing, but instead listen to me this is the real truth, what God said ill tell you which applies and doesnt. it comes from someone inventing a " gospel" that they Know people will pay 30 or 40 or 50 dollars for, thier lates revolutionary teaching that will explain everything to you the real way. its an offence to Gods Son Jesus Christ and what He endured on our behalf to not accept His words on every matter. and thats what the gog is designed to inspire in people. all kinds of circular logic for the purpose of explaining How Jesus words dont apply or Jesus wasnt preaching the Gospel.

many others are preaching this through the world, which to me is One of, if not the most terribly deceptivce and dangerous false doctrines satan ever invented. making Gods Grace what it is not......a word that nullifies all the true Gospel that will save. But thats always been the devils way, twist what God said, add in something that tells you dont take His word for it. listen to what im saying then youll really get it...Just like eden. a perfect example of why this op was written.

 

[followjesus]

there is so much confusion with some people inserting their NAR and WOF beliefs

both those groups pick and choose what appeals to them and call the rest of us religious

then, we are told we have malice if we respond to that

I would laugh, but it's a sad sad comment on the extremes some go to in order to avoid what they call 'religious'

I came across a NAR teacher who has a big article on the Lord's prayer and he goes through it step by step offering what he says is proof we should no longer pray this prayer

the entire thing is ridicuous because Jesus NEVER said pray this all the time or this is the only prayer. as I already pointed out, we are really taught to pray throughout the entire Bible

people who are more familiar with topical studies or those who seem to major on minors, seem to have difficulty in being able to do that. instead, they refute things by attempting to contrast the old and new testaments or saying what Paul taught outweighs what Jesus taught because Jesus had not died and rose from the dead yet

honestly, you can find anything you want to believe and someone teaching it, if you google long and hard enough

however the Bible is plain that EVERYTHING in it, is good for teaching and rebuke

it is easy to say oh yes, but it must be taken in context as long as you actually KNOW what the context is. some don't

sorry for repeating myself, but it seems to need repeating

i truly believe its needed desperately so dont appologize for repeating yurself. the Bible repeats itself from beginning to end for a reason. what is nar? i know what you are saying about wof, but not sure what nar is.

there are so many fallacies that are leading people astray but we were tols all along it would be that way near the end this really kind of says part of what you are sayin

2 timothy 4:2-5 "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.


same warning is repeated many times in scripture

things like this give us the clarity of where Godly truth is found

1 timoth 6:3-5 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.


the simplicity of truth is for a person to abide in the words of Jesus and not deny them. if i have any value to anyone it is this message " forget about me and spend your life in Jesus Word, from matt1:1-the last verse of John. study it, contemplate it, keep it alive in your mind and Heart, feed it and obey it"


this isnt to say we should avoid or not study both ot and nt but our Life source is built upon the 4 gospels above all else, and Jesus is the Light for understanding if we agree with His word there is no deceiving us. infallibly true and to glorify God is to Learn and abide in the Word of Jesus Christ, to endure in His word, to contemplate His word, to press forward in His word, to trust in His word, in those Gospels you also find the death and resurrection that is so essential to believe. all of the instruction, the comfort all the apostles believed and spoke from , all the ot was promising is found in the Life, ministry , death, reasurrection and ascention of Jesus Christ Our precious Lord and eternal King and savior. Jesus the Only, Jesus the mighty, Jesus the Son of the Living God full of Grace presented with and in truth.

 

[followjesus]

You need to give bruce a chance to explain what he meant. You can't just throw out accusations at the drop of a hat.
I actually think I understand what he meant now.
When I see my unforgiveness, it makes me rush to Him and ask for what I need. I went the route for many years of just trying harder and harder to do what I knew I was supposed to do (forgive and not hold a grudge) and it didn't work for any great period of time until another person came along and p'd me off.

I have discussed with bruce for 16 months now or so , and He says what he says. ive thoroughly listened and thoroughly disagree. its noit that i just take a sentance and accuse, bruce and i have discussed time and again for the first 6 months wuite civily , what He holds to however is noit acceotable to me because i have the Word of God to compare it to. im certain what bruce believes and what he explains doesnt apply, my befief will not ever change either we agree with Jesus word, or we need to change our minds. Jesus isnt to be changed from How He presented Himself and its unacceptable 100 percent. when bruce doesnt have to explain how these words of Jesus dont apply and these other ones do ill have good place to discuss with Him, as long as His motive is to explain why Jesus idnt really preach the gospel, onlky what seems unconditional thats the real gospel, but Jesus instructions they arent to be accepted because the real gospel is grace alone i have no place with bruce. as i have no place with the seropent who explains how Gods word isnt for me. clever and crafty is he, persuasive is He. but i dont care what anyone says if they are ex0laining why Jesus words, all of them do not apply or they are the 2.0 mosaic Law. its lie and calling a lie a lie, i do not feel bad for, nor do i owe an apology.


agree with Jesus word all of them, and you are my brother, explain why My Precious Lord who suffered , his words dont have the athority, i have no part with you. thats me simply stated. im nothing no one needs to agree with me, every one needs to accept and agree with Jesus and the actual Gospel of the Kingdom of God, thats the only salvation that will ever be

 

[followjesus]

Just how much of Jesus' teachings are OT as your master says?

EVERYTHING BEFORE THE CROSS!

Funny thing is, Both G777 & Prince pick & choose what's "acceptable" to teach "before the cross".

That's hypocritical.

you and i have done this circle with bruce a very Long time, he shifts and changes depending on who is speaking with him. contradiction after contradiction. Bruce has said many times all before the cross is not the gospel, doesnt apply to Christians. as people discuss with Him though, they will see for themselves where He stands. Someone who belives Jesus words will eventually see the gog for what it is. Jesus made everuthing clear as you know and many others do, time exposes whats in the heart. If people go to the Word of God clarity cant be mistaken. if Jesus said do this its not the gospel, if Jesus explains about His return and Judgement day, thats not the gospel, if Jesus says obey my commands its not the real gospel if Jesus says " Bleive in the one God sent " because that fits His belief its the gospel. but when the One God sent is explaining those who do these things will enter the Kingdom then its not the gog.........


subtle, crafty, persuasive satan never says what He actually means he tries top shape the message so it appears right, the deception is God said this, but really He means this other thing" look through my lens and youll see it, look through Jesus understanding and youll be condemned"

 

[followjesus]

This as usual is a complete lie. I wish you would stop being deceitful and begin to be at the very least honest with what is truly said. No matter how many times the truth of what is really being said is - you continue to be deceitful and lie about it.

I no more believe we can dis-regard the gospel than Daffy Duck and Donald Duck are the 2 witnesses in the book of Revelation.

In fact I am constantly trying to get "unbelieving believers" to believe the gospel message of what Christ has already done on the cross and resurrection. The gospel message is - "your sins have been forgiven". You are a new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

You should stop this type of behavior Jason as it is really going to destroy your life on this earth. We need you in the body of Christ and if you continue to behave this way - you will have much trouble.

The Lord will be faithful to you to reveal His true self and the beauty and majesty of His finished work on your behalf.

I encourage you to believe in the gospel message of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace


The Lord bless you. All is well...

Matthew 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


is it a requirement to forgive others bruce? Jesus said plainly it is, is this the Law? or is it the Gospel not to be changed ?

Luke 13:1-1-5 "There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? 3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

is repentance made clear its something we MUST do bruce? or is that the Law 2.0?

does the sermon on the Mount apply fully to Christians Bruce? or is that the Law 2.0?

does anything Jesus says is requoired of you apply to you or will that condemn someone because its the Law?

is the "gospel" the death and resurrection alone bruce? or did Jesus come to preach the Gospel?

ill assume you will ingore this message to Hide your real belief, nevertheless since you understand the "true gospel of the grace of christ" im sure these questions are easily answered , not with a video of paul ellis or some gog pastor. but ill wait for your answer to these few questions and let you give and explaination of what Jesus said that does apply, and is the Mosaic Law. since im " lying as usual" go ahead buddy answer these questiong which i could ask 50 more just like them. but answer these.

 

[followjesus]

is this not an article you share often and repeat in your words bruce?

[FONT=&quot]Don’t stray too far from the red letters,” is a piece of advice often given to new preachers. It means, stay close to the teachings of Jesus and you can’t go wrong. It sounds good, but it’s actually bad advice. Everything Jesus said was good and wonderful, but not everything He said was meant for you. Read the red letters of your Bible and you will find both stories of unprecedented grace and merciless declarations of law. Mix these messages and you will end up confused and double-minded. The solution is not to balance law and grace – you can’t – but to filter everything you read through the finished work of the cross.


and can you find one scripture that will say anything like this in the Bible?

and does that not disagree with all Jesus says about His word being spirit and L;ife? is not your belief that anything He said that is an instruction, thats Law? but the the things He said that can be plucked away from context those things are really meant for you? heres a few more excerpts from this article

[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Since the new covenant could not begin before He died, Jesus lived all of His pre-cross life under the old covenant of the law:

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]To those under the law, Jesus preached the pure and unadulterated Law of Moses.

luke 16:16 "[/FONT]The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

matthew 4:12-17 "Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee; 13And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: 14That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,15The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;16The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.17From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

matthew 4:23 "And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

those in the synogouges were ALL JEWISH and Jesus was preaching the Gospel of Gods Kingdom to them.

[FONT=&quot]this article "[FONT=&quot]reaching the red letters of Jesus is a bit like drinking whatever you find in the laundry. If you’re not paying attention – if you fail to distinguish His life-giving words of grace from [/FONT][FONT=&quot]His death-dealing words of law[/FONT][FONT=&quot]– ( no where in the Bible will you fina anyone saying any word of Jesus will lead to death or that He was preaching the Law thats made up to get people away from His words that are spirit and Life) then you could really do some damage. Don’t believe me? Then consider these red letters:[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot]If you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Mat 6:14-15) <<< (this to paul ellis and you bruce, is a word of the Law and will destroy you yet there is no such word in the law. its a fantasy doctrine)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This is one of the most-quoted passages in the Bible and it is vintage law. ( show me where the law says forgive and you will be forgiven...you cant because it doesnt forgiveness in the law is 100 percent based on sacrificing an animal)

He continues forming His distortion

It is a killer scripture. It is not good news. This verse should make us shudder ( really a born again child of God should " shudder because were commanded By the Lord to forgive opthers???wow) for it says that our forgiveness hinges on our ability to forgive others and we are poor forgivers indeed. ( yes those who refuse Gods spirit are surely poor forgivers, chldren of God they forgive like Jesus) Men sin against us repeatedly. Have we honestly forgiven them all? What if we miss one? And what do we say to those who have been raped and abused? What do you say to a young child who has been molested? “Sweetie, you need to forgive that evil man otherwise God won’t forgive you.” That’s not grace. ( really its not Grace to forgive others, just grace because God forgave you selfish focused doctrine) That’s the condemning ministry of the law in full bloom. ( again nothing in the law comes close to saying forgive and be forgiven its all animal sacrifice) How do you forgive the unforgiveable? You can’t! <<<< ( what a message to give christians you cant forgive people when they dont deserve it pshhh lies and not of God ) Then you’re in trouble. The law condemns you as an unforgiver. Now you’re beginning to recognize your need for grace and this is a good thing.


this is this guys doctrine opposed to what JESUS said is the Gospel anything Jesus said you must do, the gog rejects and ;labels it law, though Jesus says many times " you were tols long agao this thing...but im telling you this new thing"


ridiuculously apparent false doctrine and people shopuld watch out when the message is different from Jesus, this is why Bruce and I cant agree i believe the Goispel, bruce removes whatever will teach and give Life as the dreaded " law"


[/FONT]

 

[sevenseas]

if people follow your logic they will have to then disregard what Jesus Himself, the Lord whos word will never change said.

that does seem to be where we are going with this nar junk

but not sure what nar is.

nar is like a beast with tentacles all over the modern hyper charismatic church

I'm providing a simple explanation through got questions. I would consider it only a starting point

the key players in the movement are ALL connected and refer to each other as apostles, prophets and the like and believe they actually are those things irregardless of the fact they are self appointed, their prophecies fall flat for the most part and they anointed Todd Bentley to be the next big thing and do not take seriously the fact that Bentley has been proven a fraud, a liar, and adulter and an angel worshipper

I've done alot of research on this whole thing and it is both scary and amazing that you can trace them all back to the same beginning and find they are all connected. all the error and false teaching and bizarre supposed Holy Spirit revelations (actually the doctrines of teaching demons, aka doctrines of demons in the nt) all are connected.

from 'got questions'

The New Apostolic Reformation teaches that God’s intended form of church governance is apostles and prophets, holding leadership over evangelists, pastors, and teachers. However, this has not been the case for the vast majority of Christian history. So, according to the New Apostolic Reformation, God began to restore prophets and apostles over the last thirty to forty years. Only now, as the church is properly guided by the appropriate spiritual leaders, can it fulfill its commission. This commission is seen as more than spiritual, as it includes cultural and political control.

In the New Apostolic Reformation, apostles are seen as the highest of all spiritual leaders, being specially empowered by God. True maturity and unity, per the New Apostolic Reformation, is only found in those who submit to the leadership of their apostles. According to this teaching, as the church unifies behind the apostles, these leaders will develop greater and greater supernatural powers. Eventually, this will include the ability to perform mass healings and suspend the laws of physics. These signs are meant to encourage a massive wave of converts to Christianity. These apostles are also destined to be recipients of a great wealth transfer (in the end times), which will enable the church to establish God’s kingdom on earth.

Prophets in the New Apostolic Reformation are almost as important as apostles. These people have been empowered to receive “new” revelations from God that will aid the church in establishing dominion. According to the New Apostolic Reformation, only prophets, and occasionally apostles, can obtain new revelations. Evangelists, pastors, and teachers cannot. The prophets’ new revelations are crucial to overcoming the world, and the success of the church depends on the apostles following through on the information prophets provide. Most of their prophecies are extremely vague and easy to re-interpret, and the New Apostolic Reformation is willing to modify them, since they set no standard of infallibility for themselves.

According to New Apostolic thinking, mankind lost its dominion over earth as part of the fall of Adam. So Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross not only resolved our sin debt, but it empowered mankind—specifically, Christians—to retake control of the earth. The New Apostolic Reformation sees seven areas in which believers are supposedly empowered and expected to dominate: government, arts, finances, education, religion, family, and media. Of these, the New Apostolic Reformation sees government as the most important because of its ability to influence all of the other facets of life. As a result, the New Apostolic Reformation overtly encourages Christian control over politics, culture, and business. In some ways, this is nothing unusual, as people should be expected to vote and lobby according to their convictions. The New Apostolic Reformation, however, is often accused of pushing for outright theocracy.

Spiritual warfare, according to the New Apostolic Reformation, is meant to resolve worldly concerns. For example, economic troubles or health problems in a particular city are seen as the result of a demonic spirit’s influence. Prayer, research into the specific name of that demon, and other spiritual disciplines are then applied in an effort to combat this presence. This is necessary not only for the health of the region, but also because the church cannot take “dominion” over that area until the demonic control has been lifted.

 

[Muzungu256]

If we did not have the Commandments (10) HOW would we know HOW to love God and neighbour ???
People would just use THEIR OWN human understanding...which we are told NOT to lean on !

if u dont know wwhats right and wrong without a book telling u.........

 

[followjesus]

if u dont know wwhats right and wrong without a book telling u.........

Id say its not about what i know or you Know is right and Wrong.....But about What God has said is right and Wrong, mankind according to Gods word have corrupt Hearts, are easily influenced By Satans will. what you see as a " book" is the Knowledge and Wisdom of God, written and prserved through time so that all men could Know the truth about Life and Death. its always strange when someone labels the Bible " a mere book"

if i want to be a surgeon i must study intently the Books full of the sugical Knowledge, i must also practice the things i learn. if i want to Be a historian, i must study the words that teach of History, If I want to be a mathematician, i need to study the Words that teach me math........Words are Knowledge. Gods Word is His Knowledge expressed to, and for us, it is wisdom to Know what God Has said, and greater wisdom to apply it to Life. otherwise were left to our own Wicked and corrupt Hearts and Logic.

Without that " book" you would Not Know about Jesus Christ, about God the Father or anything that Applies to Christianity, or Judaism. The Bible is The Living and enduring Word of God it Goes into the Mind and becomes part of Us part of Our thoughts, our Hearts and minds, the Knowledge, understanding and wisdom we receive through the Bible is most precious A Holy Book, THE Book authored By God and so important it has been preserved since the days of moses and transcribed by command of God almighty.

 

[followjesus]

that does seem to be where we are going with this nar junk



nar is like a beast with tentacles all over the modern hyper charismatic church

I'm providing a simple explanation through got questions. I would consider it only a starting point

the key players in the movement are ALL connected and refer to each other as apostles, prophets and the like and believe they actually are those things irregardless of the fact they are self appointed, their prophecies fall flat for the most part and they anointed Todd Bentley to be the next big thing and do not take seriously the fact that Bentley has been proven a fraud, a liar, and adulter and an angel worshipper

I've done alot of research on this whole thing and it is both scary and amazing that you can trace them all back to the same beginning and find they are all connected. all the error and false teaching and bizarre supposed Holy Spirit revelations (actually the doctrines of teaching demons, aka doctrines of demons in the nt) all are connected.

from 'got questions'

The New Apostolic Reformation teaches that God’s intended form of church governance is apostles and prophets, holding leadership over evangelists, pastors, and teachers. However, this has not been the case for the vast majority of Christian history. So, according to the New Apostolic Reformation, God began to restore prophets and apostles over the last thirty to forty years. Only now, as the church is properly guided by the appropriate spiritual leaders, can it fulfill its commission. This commission is seen as more than spiritual, as it includes cultural and political control.

In the New Apostolic Reformation, apostles are seen as the highest of all spiritual leaders, being specially empowered by God. True maturity and unity, per the New Apostolic Reformation, is only found in those who submit to the leadership of their apostles. According to this teaching, as the church unifies behind the apostles, these leaders will develop greater and greater supernatural powers. Eventually, this will include the ability to perform mass healings and suspend the laws of physics. These signs are meant to encourage a massive wave of converts to Christianity. These apostles are also destined to be recipients of a great wealth transfer (in the end times), which will enable the church to establish God’s kingdom on earth.

Prophets in the New Apostolic Reformation are almost as important as apostles. These people have been empowered to receive “new” revelations from God that will aid the church in establishing dominion. According to the New Apostolic Reformation, only prophets, and occasionally apostles, can obtain new revelations. Evangelists, pastors, and teachers cannot. The prophets’ new revelations are crucial to overcoming the world, and the success of the church depends on the apostles following through on the information prophets provide. Most of their prophecies are extremely vague and easy to re-interpret, and the New Apostolic Reformation is willing to modify them, since they set no standard of infallibility for themselves.

According to New Apostolic thinking, mankind lost its dominion over earth as part of the fall of Adam. So Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross not only resolved our sin debt, but it empowered mankind—specifically, Christians—to retake control of the earth. The New Apostolic Reformation sees seven areas in which believers are supposedly empowered and expected to dominate: government, arts, finances, education, religion, family, and media. Of these, the New Apostolic Reformation sees government as the most important because of its ability to influence all of the other facets of life. As a result, the New Apostolic Reformation overtly encourages Christian control over politics, culture, and business. In some ways, this is nothing unusual, as people should be expected to vote and lobby according to their convictions. The New Apostolic Reformation, however, is often accused of pushing for outright theocracy.

Spiritual warfare, according to the New Apostolic Reformation, is meant to resolve worldly concerns. For example, economic troubles or health problems in a particular city are seen as the result of a demonic spirit’s influence. Prayer, research into the specific name of that demon, and other spiritual disciplines are then applied in an effort to combat this presence. This is necessary not only for the health of the region, but also because the church cannot take “dominion” over that area until the demonic control has been lifted.

Sounds a bit Like Latter day saint belief, mixed with charismatic, and spiritist belief. thanks for sharing that Now I have an idear of what its all about. God Bless you indeed

 

[beta]

if u dont know wwhats right and wrong without a book telling u.........

Followjesus has just given you the perfect answer...hope you have learnt something !!!