Believe Him... Trust in His Will..
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A bit to work with here Grace 777x70
Matthew 5:
27 "¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: {28} But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. {29} And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. {30} And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
There is nothing wrong with what Jesus said here.. In relation to sin it would be better to cut out ones eyes so as not to lust after a woman. thus sinning and being condemned to Hell.. Makes perfect sense when Jesus is talking to Jews who are under the Law and thus where under condemnation because none of them did the Law without fail.. Jesus was in the process of revealing How High the Wall of the Law was for them to scale. Jesus was putting them in between a Rock and a Hard place.
Of course very few of them would have listened to His call to cast out their eyes.. But it would have been better to enter into eternity blind then be cast into hell with an intact body.. Now of course we know that cutting out eyes and other body parts does not cause one to become sinless. Jesus was setting them up for the only Way out of their dilemma.. The Gospel message of salvation by being forgiven ones sins through the Atonement..
Oh we are not talking about keeping laws to win for ourselves eternal life.. We are talking about believing the Laws are true and good to be in agreement with the Real Jesus of scripture so that He is truly our LORD and Redeemer,, Not some cut down version of Jesus who is not Jesus but another jesus of people personal construct..
But as to the example you give above.. That is one of my favorite passages in the NT scriptures:: Jesus destroyed the guy.. You have to understand what this guy was asking to understand how Jesus responded:: We read..
Matthew 19:KJV
16 "¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"
So note right from the Very start of the encounter,, This guy is asking Jesus """what good thing shall i do""" this guy makes it clear he thinks he shall win himself eternity with God by His Works. We both know that it is the Good Thing Jesus did that won for us eternal life"". This is the mindset Jesus had to destroy in this guys mind.. And from that point on Jesus went about destroying this guys works salvation mindset.. The encounter continued..
Matthew 19: KJV
17 "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. {18} He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, {19} Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. {20} The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?"
So Jesus went through the Law and this guy responded by saying he had kept all the law since childhood.. Now of course we both know that this guy did not keep all the law perfectly since childhood.. The one thing we know from the law is everybody fails to keep the Law.. So Jesus had to make things clearer to this guy and replied with..
Matthew 19: KJV
21 "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. {22} But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions."
Note Jesus said "If thou wilt be perfect" revealing that a man must be perfect to enter into eternity with God.. Then Jesus who could read this mans mind and knew what the man would never do said.. "" go and sell that thou hast and give to the poor"" This man was not going to do that and His hope was crushed but even if the guy sold all he had and gave it to the poor Jesus had it covered with "" and come follow me"" Because as we both know following Jesus is the only way to having eternal life with God..
So to all that Jesus said I agree.. If a person wants to enter into eternity on our own efforts they need need to be perfect sinless beings.. But we can read on and find out the reaction of the Apostles to this encounter.. Because they also had a Works salvation mindset::
Matthew 19: KJV
23 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. {24} And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. {25} When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? {26} But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."
They where shocked exceedingly amazed.. Saying "then who can be saved"" They where saying no one could acieve the perfect standard and that they where all doomed to fail.. You can almost see the dropped jaws and looks of doom in their eyes.. The Jesus said ""With men this is Impossible"" So it is impossible for men to do any good works that will see them enter into eternity with God and then Jesus gave a little hint to them as to who will make it possible.. ""But with God all things are possible"" If we are with God/ If God is with us in the form of the Holy Spirit it is more them possible it is assured..
So therefore i agree with everything Jesus said in Matthew 19.. Jesus did not lie to the guy who came to him and asked what good thing he could do to win eternity with God..
Is the Law good and right.. Yes absolutely
Is selling all you have and giving it to the poor a good deed.. Yes absolutely
Is following Jesus the Way to eternal life.. Yes indeed
Are we saved by the good thing God has done for us.. Yes absolutely
Holding the Law up as good and right is not declaring that one is saved by law keeping..
You can preach the law and preach that one is saved by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ without contradiction..
Matthew 5:
27 "¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: {28} But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. {29} And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. {30} And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
There is nothing wrong with what Jesus said here.. In relation to sin it would be better to cut out ones eyes so as not to lust after a woman. thus sinning and being condemned to Hell.. Makes perfect sense when Jesus is talking to Jews who are under the Law and thus where under condemnation because none of them did the Law without fail.. Jesus was in the process of revealing How High the Wall of the Law was for them to scale. Jesus was putting them in between a Rock and a Hard place.
Of course very few of them would have listened to His call to cast out their eyes.. But it would have been better to enter into eternity blind then be cast into hell with an intact body.. Now of course we know that cutting out eyes and other body parts does not cause one to become sinless. Jesus was setting them up for the only Way out of their dilemma.. The Gospel message of salvation by being forgiven ones sins through the Atonement..
Oh we are not talking about keeping laws to win for ourselves eternal life.. We are talking about believing the Laws are true and good to be in agreement with the Real Jesus of scripture so that He is truly our LORD and Redeemer,, Not some cut down version of Jesus who is not Jesus but another jesus of people personal construct..
But as to the example you give above.. That is one of my favorite passages in the NT scriptures:: Jesus destroyed the guy.. You have to understand what this guy was asking to understand how Jesus responded:: We read..
Matthew 19:KJV
16 "¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"
So note right from the Very start of the encounter,, This guy is asking Jesus """what good thing shall i do""" this guy makes it clear he thinks he shall win himself eternity with God by His Works. We both know that it is the Good Thing Jesus did that won for us eternal life"". This is the mindset Jesus had to destroy in this guys mind.. And from that point on Jesus went about destroying this guys works salvation mindset.. The encounter continued..
Matthew 19: KJV
17 "And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. {18} He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, {19} Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. {20} The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?"
So Jesus went through the Law and this guy responded by saying he had kept all the law since childhood.. Now of course we both know that this guy did not keep all the law perfectly since childhood.. The one thing we know from the law is everybody fails to keep the Law.. So Jesus had to make things clearer to this guy and replied with..
Matthew 19: KJV
21 "Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. {22} But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions."
Note Jesus said "If thou wilt be perfect" revealing that a man must be perfect to enter into eternity with God.. Then Jesus who could read this mans mind and knew what the man would never do said.. "" go and sell that thou hast and give to the poor"" This man was not going to do that and His hope was crushed but even if the guy sold all he had and gave it to the poor Jesus had it covered with "" and come follow me"" Because as we both know following Jesus is the only way to having eternal life with God..
So to all that Jesus said I agree.. If a person wants to enter into eternity on our own efforts they need need to be perfect sinless beings.. But we can read on and find out the reaction of the Apostles to this encounter.. Because they also had a Works salvation mindset::
Matthew 19: KJV
23 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. {24} And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. {25} When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? {26} But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."
They where shocked exceedingly amazed.. Saying "then who can be saved"" They where saying no one could acieve the perfect standard and that they where all doomed to fail.. You can almost see the dropped jaws and looks of doom in their eyes.. The Jesus said ""With men this is Impossible"" So it is impossible for men to do any good works that will see them enter into eternity with God and then Jesus gave a little hint to them as to who will make it possible.. ""But with God all things are possible"" If we are with God/ If God is with us in the form of the Holy Spirit it is more them possible it is assured..
So therefore i agree with everything Jesus said in Matthew 19.. Jesus did not lie to the guy who came to him and asked what good thing he could do to win eternity with God..
Is the Law good and right.. Yes absolutely
Is selling all you have and giving it to the poor a good deed.. Yes absolutely
Is following Jesus the Way to eternal life.. Yes indeed
Are we saved by the good thing God has done for us.. Yes absolutely
Holding the Law up as good and right is not declaring that one is saved by law keeping..
You can preach the law and preach that one is saved by the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ without contradiction..
Of course the law of Moses is good and holy but it is not for obtaining eternal life for the New Covenant believer in Christ - we live by His life in us which is a fulfillment of the Law of Moses.
I believe everything Jesus said about the Law too but I don't follow those teachings about the Law - I follow Him and He is in me now.
My whole point was to show that we do not follow everything Jesus said without dividing what He was saying and to whom at the time He was saying it. I am not about to start cutting my hands off nor gouging out my eyes even though it would be better then going to hell. There is a better way and it is by believing in Christ..
I remember a great article on this. I'll see if I can find it.
I believe everything Jesus said about the Law too but I don't follow those teachings about the Law - I follow Him and He is in me now.
My whole point was to show that we do not follow everything Jesus said without dividing what He was saying and to whom at the time He was saying it. I am not about to start cutting my hands off nor gouging out my eyes even though it would be better then going to hell. There is a better way and it is by believing in Christ..
I remember a great article on this. I'll see if I can find it.
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The Greatest Law Preacher
"Don’t stray too far from the red letters,” is a piece of advice often given to new preachers. It means, stay close to the teachings of Jesus and you can’t go wrong. It sounds good, but it’s actually bad advice. Everything Jesus said was good and wonderful, but not everything He said was meant for you.
Read the red letters of your Bible and you will find both stories of unprecedented grace and merciless declarations of law. Mix these messages and you will end up confused and double-minded.
The solution is not to balance law and grace – you can’t – but to filter everything you read through the finished work of the cross. To make sense of what Jesus said, you need to understand what Jesus did and why. ( <<- this is a link to another article )
Jesus lived under law
Jesus lived at the crossroads of two covenants. As humanity’s representative He came to fulfill the old law-keeping covenant in order that we might relate to God through a new and better covenant forged in His blood. Since the new covenant could not begin before He died, Jesus lived all of His pre-cross life under the old covenant of the law:
But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. (Gal 4:4-5)
Jesus was born under law, circumcised by law, and presented in the temple according to the law. Every Jewish person that Jesus met was also born under law. We need to keep this in mind when we read the red letters of Jesus.
What law did Jesus preach?
To those under the law, Jesus preached the pure and unadulterated Law of Moses. When religious people came to trap him with theological puzzles, Jesus would respond with, “What did Moses command you?” (Mk 10:3).
If someone asked, “What is the greatest commandment in the law,” Jesus would provide an answer from the law (Mt 22:36). In His law-keeping ministry, Jesus honored the Law of Moses:
The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. (Mt 23:2-3)
Since the law-teachers often made Jesus angry, we might conclude that Jesus was opposed to the law. He was not. Jesus had no problem with what the Pharisees were preaching. “Do everything they tell you.” What really burnt His toast was their hypocrisy – they weren’t practicing what they preached:
Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. (Joh 7:19)
Why did Jesus preach the law?
Like every grace preacher, Jesus esteemed the law and the purpose for which it was given. The law was given to silence every mouth and hold the whole world accountable (Rms 3:19). The purpose of the law is to make us conscious of sin and reveal our need for a Savior.
Since Sinai, the Jews had had fourteen centuries to learn what the law would teach them – that the flesh is incapable of dealing with sin. However, the law-teachers and Pharisees had ring-fenced the Law of Moses with their traditions and interpretations.
By honoring their traditions ahead of the law, they diluted the law and removed the key to knowledge. As a result, the menace of sin was not fully recognized and the self-righteous weren’t silenced.
If the law had been allowed to do its proper work, the Jews would have been primed and ready for a Savior. Every one of them would have had an experience like the one Paul describes in Romans 7. “Nothing good lives in me. Oh wretched man that I am!”
Live under the condemning ministry of the law and you will inevitably come to this question: “Who will deliver me from this body of death?”
If the law-teachers and prophets had done their job, then the entire nation of Israel would have gathered outside that stable in Bethlehem in eager expectation. “He’s here! The Savior has come!” they would have said. “The One who will deliver us from the curse of the law and reconcile us to God has been born. Glory to God in the highest!”
Sadly, it didn’t happen. Since the law-teachers had been negligent, Jesus had to do their job before He could do His own. Before He could save the world from sin, He had to preach the law that made sin utterly sinful.
Before He give Himself as the answer, He had to make sure we were asking the right question. Who will deliver us?
So Jesus became the greatest law preacher of all time. As the prophet Isaiah had foretold, He made the law magnificent. He lifted up what others had knocked down and raised the standard to glorious levels of perfection.
Never again would mankind be without excuse. You want to know what God expects? Just read the Sermon on the Mount. In it Jesus says that God demands perfection and nothing less.
How did Jesus preach the law?
Preaching the red letters of Jesus is a bit like drinking whatever you find in the laundry. If you’re not paying attention – if you fail to distinguish His life-giving words of grace from His death-dealing words of law – then you could really do some damage. Don’t believe me? Then consider these red letters:
If you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Mat 6:14-15)
This is one of the most-quoted passages in the Bible and it is vintage law. It is a killer scripture. It is not good news. This verse should make us shudder for it says that our forgiveness hinges on our ability to forgive others and we are poor forgivers indeed. Men sin against us repeatedly.
Have we honestly forgiven them all? What if we miss one? And what do we say to those who have been raped and abused? What do you say to a young child who has been molested? “Sweetie, you need to forgive that evil man otherwise God won’t forgive you.” That’s not grace.
That’s the condemning ministry of the law in full bloom. How do you forgive the unforgiveable? You can’t! Then you’re in trouble. The law condemns you as an unforgiver. Now you’re beginning to recognize your need for grace and this is a good thing.
Any time you read a conditional statement from Jesus, you should interpret it as law. “Do not judge and you will not be judged” (Lk 6:37). That’s good advice but it’s also law. To avoid something (judgment) you have to do something (don’t judge).
It’s a blessing you have to pay for. And anytime Jesus makes a threat, you should interpret that as law as well. “Anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment” (Mt 5:22). That’s bad news for anyone with a brother!
The law is not for you
Jesus came to reveal grace but those who are confident of their own righteousness are incapable of receiving it. They don’t see their need.
What they need is the law and Jesus gave it to them in spades. But Jesus’ larger purpose was to give us His life and His righteousness.
So He also told stories about God justifying sinners and shepherds finding lost sheep. Then He went to the cross fulfilling the law on our behalf that He might be the end of the law for all who believe (Rom 10:4).
Jesus’ came to set the captives free and give sight to the blind. The law sets nobody free. But the law does reveal your need for a Great Deliverer.
Here is the website for this article. It has a comment section at the bottom where people can ask questions and I have learned a lot from others asking questions.
https://escapetoreality.org/2012/01/...-law-preacher/
All scripture is written "for" everyone to learn by but not all scripture is written directly "to" everyone.
Don't take some one else's medicine. It's not for you if you don't have that sickness.
"Don’t stray too far from the red letters,” is a piece of advice often given to new preachers. It means, stay close to the teachings of Jesus and you can’t go wrong. It sounds good, but it’s actually bad advice. Everything Jesus said was good and wonderful, but not everything He said was meant for you.
Read the red letters of your Bible and you will find both stories of unprecedented grace and merciless declarations of law. Mix these messages and you will end up confused and double-minded.
The solution is not to balance law and grace – you can’t – but to filter everything you read through the finished work of the cross. To make sense of what Jesus said, you need to understand what Jesus did and why. ( <<- this is a link to another article )
Jesus lived under law
Jesus lived at the crossroads of two covenants. As humanity’s representative He came to fulfill the old law-keeping covenant in order that we might relate to God through a new and better covenant forged in His blood. Since the new covenant could not begin before He died, Jesus lived all of His pre-cross life under the old covenant of the law:
But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. (Gal 4:4-5)
Jesus was born under law, circumcised by law, and presented in the temple according to the law. Every Jewish person that Jesus met was also born under law. We need to keep this in mind when we read the red letters of Jesus.
What law did Jesus preach?
To those under the law, Jesus preached the pure and unadulterated Law of Moses. When religious people came to trap him with theological puzzles, Jesus would respond with, “What did Moses command you?” (Mk 10:3).
If someone asked, “What is the greatest commandment in the law,” Jesus would provide an answer from the law (Mt 22:36). In His law-keeping ministry, Jesus honored the Law of Moses:
The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. (Mt 23:2-3)
Since the law-teachers often made Jesus angry, we might conclude that Jesus was opposed to the law. He was not. Jesus had no problem with what the Pharisees were preaching. “Do everything they tell you.” What really burnt His toast was their hypocrisy – they weren’t practicing what they preached:
Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. (Joh 7:19)
Why did Jesus preach the law?
Like every grace preacher, Jesus esteemed the law and the purpose for which it was given. The law was given to silence every mouth and hold the whole world accountable (Rms 3:19). The purpose of the law is to make us conscious of sin and reveal our need for a Savior.
Since Sinai, the Jews had had fourteen centuries to learn what the law would teach them – that the flesh is incapable of dealing with sin. However, the law-teachers and Pharisees had ring-fenced the Law of Moses with their traditions and interpretations.
By honoring their traditions ahead of the law, they diluted the law and removed the key to knowledge. As a result, the menace of sin was not fully recognized and the self-righteous weren’t silenced.
If the law had been allowed to do its proper work, the Jews would have been primed and ready for a Savior. Every one of them would have had an experience like the one Paul describes in Romans 7. “Nothing good lives in me. Oh wretched man that I am!”
Live under the condemning ministry of the law and you will inevitably come to this question: “Who will deliver me from this body of death?”
If the law-teachers and prophets had done their job, then the entire nation of Israel would have gathered outside that stable in Bethlehem in eager expectation. “He’s here! The Savior has come!” they would have said. “The One who will deliver us from the curse of the law and reconcile us to God has been born. Glory to God in the highest!”
Sadly, it didn’t happen. Since the law-teachers had been negligent, Jesus had to do their job before He could do His own. Before He could save the world from sin, He had to preach the law that made sin utterly sinful.
Before He give Himself as the answer, He had to make sure we were asking the right question. Who will deliver us?
So Jesus became the greatest law preacher of all time. As the prophet Isaiah had foretold, He made the law magnificent. He lifted up what others had knocked down and raised the standard to glorious levels of perfection.
Never again would mankind be without excuse. You want to know what God expects? Just read the Sermon on the Mount. In it Jesus says that God demands perfection and nothing less.
How did Jesus preach the law?
Preaching the red letters of Jesus is a bit like drinking whatever you find in the laundry. If you’re not paying attention – if you fail to distinguish His life-giving words of grace from His death-dealing words of law – then you could really do some damage. Don’t believe me? Then consider these red letters:
If you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Mat 6:14-15)
This is one of the most-quoted passages in the Bible and it is vintage law. It is a killer scripture. It is not good news. This verse should make us shudder for it says that our forgiveness hinges on our ability to forgive others and we are poor forgivers indeed. Men sin against us repeatedly.
Have we honestly forgiven them all? What if we miss one? And what do we say to those who have been raped and abused? What do you say to a young child who has been molested? “Sweetie, you need to forgive that evil man otherwise God won’t forgive you.” That’s not grace.
That’s the condemning ministry of the law in full bloom. How do you forgive the unforgiveable? You can’t! Then you’re in trouble. The law condemns you as an unforgiver. Now you’re beginning to recognize your need for grace and this is a good thing.
Any time you read a conditional statement from Jesus, you should interpret it as law. “Do not judge and you will not be judged” (Lk 6:37). That’s good advice but it’s also law. To avoid something (judgment) you have to do something (don’t judge).
It’s a blessing you have to pay for. And anytime Jesus makes a threat, you should interpret that as law as well. “Anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment” (Mt 5:22). That’s bad news for anyone with a brother!
The law is not for you
Jesus came to reveal grace but those who are confident of their own righteousness are incapable of receiving it. They don’t see their need.
What they need is the law and Jesus gave it to them in spades. But Jesus’ larger purpose was to give us His life and His righteousness.
So He also told stories about God justifying sinners and shepherds finding lost sheep. Then He went to the cross fulfilling the law on our behalf that He might be the end of the law for all who believe (Rom 10:4).
Jesus’ came to set the captives free and give sight to the blind. The law sets nobody free. But the law does reveal your need for a Great Deliverer.
Here is the website for this article. It has a comment section at the bottom where people can ask questions and I have learned a lot from others asking questions.
https://escapetoreality.org/2012/01/...-law-preacher/
All scripture is written "for" everyone to learn by but not all scripture is written directly "to" everyone.
Don't take some one else's medicine. It's not for you if you don't have that sickness.
Last edited:
I agree with your post which is why if we don't rightly divide what Jesus is saying - then some people might believe that they have to keep the law of Moses and they are fine as any extreme Hebrew Roots believers believe.
Maybe I should have said - we don't follow the letter of "all" that Jesus is saying without interpretating it in the light of the cross and resurrection which I believe is what I posted in my first post on the thread?
I agree with you whole-heartily that Jesus gave them exactly what they needed to hear in order for them to come to the end of themselves. I apologize if I have mis-read your post. To me - we don't follow directly every word that Jesus said to others without knowing who He is talking to and what is He trying to do. That was my point in all this.
Maybe I should have said - we don't follow the letter of "all" that Jesus is saying without interpretating it in the light of the cross and resurrection which I believe is what I posted in my first post on the thread?
I agree with you whole-heartily that Jesus gave them exactly what they needed to hear in order for them to come to the end of themselves. I apologize if I have mis-read your post. To me - we don't follow directly every word that Jesus said to others without knowing who He is talking to and what is He trying to do. That was my point in all this.