Breaking the speed limit vs "bigger" sins: Are all sins equal?

[MarcR]

We know that all sins are equal; all sin separates us from God. Do you feel that breaking the speed limit is a sin in that it does not obey local authorities? (Rend unto Caesar what is Caesar's)

Do we take it seriously enough?

Should we take it as seriously as the struggle with alcoholism or lying?


What are your thoughts on some sins being worse than others? My personal opinion is that all sins are equal but some sin has a larger social, personal, physical, and economical cost to it. Therefore, we're more likely to view the sins that affect ourselves and others as "worse," but in the end--they all separate us from God.

I think the answer to your question lies in how we view equality.

In pure Mathematics and the physical sciences the arithmetical premise that 1+1=2 is always true.

in the biological sciences we learn that 1+1= 3 or more if they come together often enough.

In terms of needing a Savior, all sins equally separate us from God and equally create the need for Salvation.

In terms of life on earth, different sins do not equally effect our lives nor the lives of those around us.

Killing a man who is providing for a wife and several children has far more impact on both the life of the killer and the lives of the survivors and friends than stealing a candy bar has on a shopkeeper.

 

[p_rehbein]

One thing I believe, and have been told by friends of mine in various PD's, driving too slow.....10 to 15 MPH under the posted speed limit is more dangerous than driving faster than the posted speed limit.

Now, an observation of mine is that Man's Laws, much like God's Laws appear to be optional to some. They pick and choose which they will obey, and which they can explain away.

(wow, enjoyed that.......... )

 

[crossnote]

Yeah or get flipped off, verbally abused or evil looks from hell if you actually drive the speed limit by all of those rush hour commuters!

HA, here anyone is lucky if they can go 10mph during rush hour.

 

[Vernon]

Obviously the wicked will not suffer eternal damnation for going 63 mph in a 55 mph zone, those who perish eternally deny God and his grace and love for all.

 

[posthuman]

I think the answer to your question lies in how we view equality.

In pure Mathematics and the physical sciences the arithmetical premise that 1+1=2 is always true.

in the biological sciences we learn that 1+1= 3 or more if they come together often enough.

just to interject that the same is true in higher math -- measurement depends on metric, and most people only know one metric, and one measure, one space, one algebraic ring.
1 + 1 = 2 is always true in a certain (and most common) context.

so to a lay person, that 1+1+1 = 1 and not 3 sounds ridiculous, both theologically and mathematically. but to a person educated in higher math, one realizes this is true, when using an appropriate norm, or measure, in an appropriate space.
the same is true in theology!

((didn't want to leave the impression that math can't describe biology -- it just needs to be the appropriate math))

 

[seed_time_harvest]

We know that all sins are equal; all sin separates us from God. Do you feel that breaking the speed limit is a sin in that it does not obey local authorities? (Rend unto Caesar what is Caesar's)

Do we take it seriously enough?

Should we take it as seriously as the struggle with alcoholism or lying?


What are your thoughts on some sins being worse than others? My personal opinion is that all sins are equal but some sin has a larger social, personal, physical, and economical cost to it. Therefore, we're more likely to view the sins that affect ourselves and others as "worse," but in the end--they all separate us from God.

We know that some sins are an abomination but in the sense that GOD looks at all sin big or little as unacceptable then in that sense all sin is equal.

When it comes to courts In the world that keep the order in today's society then some sins are bigger than others and are dealt with differently according to man's law of the land.

 

[microscoped]

I have never heard debate in this subject but its true. There are differing levels of sin

 

[blue_ladybug]

I have never heard debate in this subject but its true. There are differing levels of sin

No there are not. God judges all sin the same. That means he judges murder the same as robbery. There's no "differing levels" of sin. Sin is sin. Period. One sin is no greater nor less than another.

 

[Skinski7]

No there are not. God judges all sin the same. That means he judges murder the same as robbery. There's no "differing levels" of sin. Sin is sin. Period. One sin is no greater nor less than another.

The words of Jesus are clear...

Joh 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Joh 19:12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
Joh 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
Joh 19:16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.



God holds people responsible according to the light that they have...

Luk 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Luk 14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
Luk 14:17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
Luk 14:18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
Luk 14:19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
Luk 14:20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
Luk 14:21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
Luk 14:22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
Luk 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
Luk 14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

The condemnation upon men is due the following...

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

In other words the condemnation is due REBELLION, the condemnation is due the purposeful REBELLION to the light. This is why the Bible teaches...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Sin unto death is the OPPOSITE of obedience unto righteousness.

Sin unto death = Rebellion

There is no condemnation upon those whom...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If one is walking after the Spirit one is not in rebellion to God. This is why Paul taught...

Obedience unto righteousness (Rom 6:16) ----------------> righteousness unto holiness (Rom 6:19) -------------------> holiness the end of which is eternal life (Rom 6:22).

Hence the gift of eternal life is THROUGH Jesus Christ (Rom 6:23) which is why those who patiently continue in doing good (via walking after the Spirit (Rom 8:1-2) via a faith that works by love (Gal 5:6)) are the only one's who will receive eternal life...

Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Those whom sin unto death...

Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,


The words of Jesus match perfectly the sentiment of Paul.



Many modern deceivers obfuscate the simple truth by attempting to throw all sin into the same bucket. They make no distinction between willful sin (Heb 10:26, Num 15:30-31) and sins of ignorance (Num 15:24-27, 1 Joh 5:17).

Many modern deceivers create a strawman of the "perfection of God" being the requirement to enter the kingdom of God. This would denote human beings being perfect in knowledge in order to be perfect in their decision making. The truth is that God looks at the heart and God reckons FAITH as righteousness. God requires perfect faith or simply put, "moral uprightness wrought from a pure heart." We know this because faith itself is reckoned as righteousness (Rom 4:5) and faith works by love (Gal 5:6) and love fulfills the righteousness of the law (Rom 13:8). This is why Paul wrote that the "righteousness of the law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit" (Rom 8:4).

Many modern deceivers will put all sin into the one bucket in order to obfuscate any understanding between "sins of ignorance" and "sins of presumption." This deception creates in the mind a strawman of "sinless perfection" being the standard God requires and because no-one is "sinlessly perfect" they have set the bait for people to buy into the deception of the "moral transfer" false doctrine of the "righteousness of Christ being credited to the believers account via trust." Thus their doctrine presents a "sin cloak" operating upon the premise of "you can sin and not surely die" which many people accept because in their mind rebellion is equal to falling short due to ignorance. Hence these deceivers will vehemently oppose any notion that willful sin (rebellion) has to cease once and for all, and they will also vehemently oppose any allusion to 'heart purity" in their doctrine. Heart purity is the one subject they simply will not discuss or examine for it would overthrow their false religion extremely quickly.


God chastens us when we sin ignorantly (Heb 12:6-11), condemnation is wrought upon those whom sin presumptuously (Heb 10:26-29). This is why ALL rebellion to God has to be forsaken in repentance. God also chastens the rebellious (Rev 3:19) because He does not want any to perish but all to come to repentance (2Pet 3:9).



Conclusion

All sins are not equal and that is something that Jesus Himself taught.
Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.






Pro 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
Pro 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
Pro 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
Pro 1:25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
Pro 1:26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
Pro 1:27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
Pro 1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
Pro 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
Pro 1:30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
Pro 1:31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
Pro 1:32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
Pro 1:33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

Are we willing to yield to God?

 

[Jason0047]

Jesus said...You break one of the LEAST of the commandments you are guilty of the WHOLE LAW!

Actually you are mixing a New Testament Command given by James with a truth revealed by Jesus.

James said,

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." (James 2:10).

Jesus said,

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:19).

In James 2:10, James is talking about the Royal Law or the Law of love under the New Covenant (For it is called the Royal Law in verse 8 and the Law of Liberty in verse 12; So this is not talking about the Law of Moses). In Matthew chapter 5, Jesus does give us many Preparational New Testament Commandments that are repeated later in the New Testament (After His death); However, in Matthew 5:19, Jesus is talking exclusively about the Law of Moses (See verses 17-18). Also, see verse 24. For it is a Command that is specifically only for the Old Covenant because Jesus says to reconcile with your brother before giving a gift (animal sacrifice) at the altar. Christians do not sacrifice animals anymore.

 

[Jason0047]

James is talking about the Law of Love. This is based on the context by the fact that those brethren he was talking to were showing favoritism in their fellowship. They were giving no honor to the poor and were instead giving that honor to the rich instead.

Is one hating their brother or other people when they go over a little when they speed?

Is there a Scripture verse that says if we disobey the laws of the land we are to face Hell fire?

 

[Jason0047]

For example: We are commanded to be baptized. But yet, it is not a Command that is the putting away of the filth of the flesh (i.e. sin). Not being baptized is not a salvation issue. Yes, in time a believer will be baptized because God will call them to do that. But one does not get baptized in order to be saved or to stay saved. One is baptized as showing that they already have a good clean conscience before God. Baptism is a picture or a symbol of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It's not so one keep their salvation or so as to be saved.

 

[Misty77]

No there are not. God judges all sin the same. That means he judges murder the same as robbery. There's no "differing levels" of sin. Sin is sin. Period. One sin is no greater nor less than another.

What you are describing is called "sin-leveling." True, we are all sinners; and all sin separates us from God. However, there are some sins that are worse than others.

Here's a classic example: You are hiding Jews in Nazi Germany when soldiers ask you where they are. Do you tell them or not? Is the greater sin to lie (bear false witness) or to condemn innocent people to death? Which one has a greater consequence?

Or another: Your spouse has an affair. He blames you because you have put on 20 pounds in your 15-year marriage. Your church tells you that you have no right to leave him because "we are all sinners." But really, which sin broke the marriage covenant?

Sin-leveling is a tactic used by religious leaders to keep victims under their thumbs. "Yes, what I did was wrong; but you're not perfect, either, so you have so forgive me and stay with me." The abuser puts her long-term manipulation and control on the same level as a victim's perceived bad attitude or lying (which is usually a survival tactic to avoid triggering the abuser).

Sin-leveling ignores the pain inflicted by evil actions and denies victims the right to pursue justice or even safety.

 

[gb9]

The words of Jesus are clear...

Joh 19:10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Joh 19:12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
Joh 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
Joh 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
Joh 19:16 Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.



God holds people responsible according to the light that they have...

Luk 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
Luk 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Luk 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luk 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Luk 14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
Luk 14:17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
Luk 14:18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
Luk 14:19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
Luk 14:20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
Luk 14:21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
Luk 14:22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
Luk 14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
Luk 14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

The condemnation upon men is due the following...

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

In other words the condemnation is due REBELLION, the condemnation is due the purposeful REBELLION to the light. This is why the Bible teaches...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Sin unto death is the OPPOSITE of obedience unto righteousness.

Sin unto death = Rebellion

There is no condemnation upon those whom...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If one is walking after the Spirit one is not in rebellion to God. This is why Paul taught...

Obedience unto righteousness (Rom 6:16) ----------------> righteousness unto holiness (Rom 6:19) -------------------> holiness the end of which is eternal life (Rom 6:22).

Hence the gift of eternal life is THROUGH Jesus Christ (Rom 6:23) which is why those who patiently continue in doing good (via walking after the Spirit (Rom 8:1-2) via a faith that works by love (Gal 5:6)) are the only one's who will receive eternal life...

Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Those whom sin unto death...

Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,


The words of Jesus match perfectly the sentiment of Paul.



Many modern deceivers obfuscate the simple truth by attempting to throw all sin into the same bucket. They make no distinction between willful sin (Heb 10:26, Num 15:30-31) and sins of ignorance (Num 15:24-27, 1 Joh 5:17).

Many modern deceivers create a strawman of the "perfection of God" being the requirement to enter the kingdom of God. This would denote human beings being perfect in knowledge in order to be perfect in their decision making. The truth is that God looks at the heart and God reckons FAITH as righteousness. God requires perfect faith or simply put, "moral uprightness wrought from a pure heart." We know this because faith itself is reckoned as righteousness (Rom 4:5) and faith works by love (Gal 5:6) and love fulfills the righteousness of the law (Rom 13:8). This is why Paul wrote that the "righteousness of the law be fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit" (Rom 8:4).

Many modern deceivers will put all sin into the one bucket in order to obfuscate any understanding between "sins of ignorance" and "sins of presumption." This deception creates in the mind a strawman of "sinless perfection" being the standard God requires and because no-one is "sinlessly perfect" they have set the bait for people to buy into the deception of the "moral transfer" false doctrine of the "righteousness of Christ being credited to the believers account via trust." Thus their doctrine presents a "sin cloak" operating upon the premise of "you can sin and not surely die" which many people accept because in their mind rebellion is equal to falling short due to ignorance. Hence these deceivers will vehemently oppose any notion that willful sin (rebellion) has to cease once and for all, and they will also vehemently oppose any allusion to 'heart purity" in their doctrine. Heart purity is the one subject they simply will not discuss or examine for it would overthrow their false religion extremely quickly.


God chastens us when we sin ignorantly (Heb 12:6-11), condemnation is wrought upon those whom sin presumptuously (Heb 10:26-29). This is why ALL rebellion to God has to be forsaken in repentance. God also chastens the rebellious (Rev 3:19) because He does not want any to perish but all to come to repentance (2Pet 3:9).



Conclusion

All sins are not equal and that is something that Jesus Himself taught.
Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.






Pro 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
Pro 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
Pro 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
Pro 1:25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:
Pro 1:26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;
Pro 1:27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.
Pro 1:28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:
Pro 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
Pro 1:30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
Pro 1:31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
Pro 1:32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
Pro 1:33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.

Are we willing to yield to God?

are you willing to read and believe the Bible as a whole, and not pluck out verses to back up YOUR opinion?? no grace, no mercy, no forgiveness. oh wait, you are perfect, you don't need any of that.

 

[Jason0047]

are you willing to read and believe the Bible as a whole, and not pluck out verses to back up YOUR opinion?? no grace, no mercy, no forgiveness. oh wait, you are perfect, you don't need any of that.

Who makes a believer perfect? Jesus Christ. For Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. For we can do all things thru Christ which strenghens us. We are also sanctified by the Spirit and the Word of God, too. So do we give glory to ourselves for being perfect? No. It's all God.

 

[Jason0047]

What you are describing is called "sin-leveling." True, we are all sinners; and all sin separates us from God. However, there are some sins that are worse than others.

Here's a classic example: You are hiding Jews in Nazi Germany when soldiers ask you where they are. Do you tell them or not? Is the greater sin to lie (bear false witness) or to condemn innocent people to death? Which one has a greater consequence?

Or another: Your spouse has an affair. He blames you because you have put on 20 pounds in your 15-year marriage. Your church tells you that you have no right to leave him because "we are all sinners." But really, which sin broke the marriage covenant?

Sin-leveling is a tactic used by religious leaders to keep victims under their thumbs. "Yes, what I did was wrong; but you're not perfect, either, so you have so forgive me and stay with me." The abuser puts her long-term manipulation and control on the same level as a victim's perceived bad attitude or lying (which is usually a survival tactic to avoid triggering the abuser).

Sin-leveling ignores the pain inflicted by evil actions and denies victims the right to pursue justice or even safety.

Yes, I already mentioned how there are sins that are not forgivable, too. If one speaks bad against the Holy Spirit, they will not be forgiven. If one commits suicide, they are committing self murder that they cannot repent of. If one rejects Jesus Christ after having the Spirit, they are committing apostasy and cannot come back.

John says there are sins that lead unto death and sins that do not lead unto death (1 John 5:16-18).

Psalm 19:12 says there are hidden and secret faults. Surely we are not going to be condemned for errors or sins we do not know about because of our human imperfections.

 

[gb9]

and here lies you and scott's ( skinski) problem. you start from a base of I am perfect. you should start from a base of I am broken and not perfect and need a savoir. Titus 3 Romans 7&8 Christ said no one is good but God. I could go on, but ya'll will ignore and or twist so I will just let you get to it.

 

[Jason0047]

and here lies you and scott's ( skinski) problem. you start from a base of I am perfect. you should start from a base of I am broken and not perfect and need a savoir. Titus 3 Romans 7&8 Christ said no one is good but God. I could go on, but ya'll will ignore and or twist so I will just let you get to it.

Where in the world did I state that I am perfect? Where did I state that a believer starts off perfect? It would not make any sense for Jesus to say to be perfect if we as believers were already perfect at the start of the race.

Also, it would not make any sense for Jesus to say to be perfect if one could not be perfect, too. For if Jesus' Command in telling us to be perfect did not turn out to be true, then Jesus would have been lying. However, that is not possible because Jesus is not capable of telling a lie. For He is God Almighty in the flesh. The Son of God (Second person of the Godhead).

 

[Sirk]

Where in the world did I state that I am perfect? Where did I state that a believer starts off perfect? It would not make any sense for Jesus to say to be perfect if they we as believers were already perfect.

Also, it would not make any sense for Jesus to say to be perfect if one could not be perfect, too. For if Jesus' Command in telling us to be perfect did not turn out to be true, then Jesus would have been lying. However, that is not possible because Jesus is not capable of telling a lie. For He is God Almighty in the flesh. The Son of God (Second person of the Godhead).

So which is it? You've been pushing sinless perfection on another thread and now you say you are imperfect. It appears you're as confused about yourself as everyone else is.

 

[Jason0047]

Oh, and there is no changing the word "perfect", either. Jesus already explains the context of what kind of "perfect" he is talking about by comparing such "perfect" with the Father. For the Father is "perfect" because He is Holy and is not capable fo sinning.