Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner

17Bees · May 1, 2017

I believe there are some failings worse than others. What you say about "a white lie is as much of a sin as murder..." is true in that a small lie and murder are both transgressions, but that is where their comparisons end. I believe there are mortal sins and venial sins much like what 1 John 5:17 speaks of. If there were no distinctions why would Paul in Romans 11:22 warn the Romans of being cut off? Even losing one's salvation in Corinthians 9:27?

I believe there are some sins particularly abominable to God and will go further in saying that cross dressing is one of them. This is not biblically provable, it's more like something observable by human nature. Humans are made in the image of God and I believe humans have an inherent understanding of SOME Godly things, however obscured. I personally believe this kind of sin is mortal in nature and that Jenner's salvation is in jeopardy. I also believe what Jenner is "hearing" about himself is a lie. A lie perpetrated in order to repulse God and ensure another lost soul. There are simply larger motives at work here than a guy in a dress.

FranC · May 1, 2017

resurrection33 said:

Salvation is a day to day thing. When you sin, you suffer. For example, if I rob a bank, I go to prison. When we repent of our sin, our worries disappear.

[17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
[18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
[19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
[20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezek 33:17-20 RSV

Salvation is a day to day thing???
You mean I could lose my salvation at any moment??
I don't understand your post.

AllenW · May 1, 2017

samuel23 said:

I disagree.
I believe he is 6'2" tall and in his first decathalong in 1972 he finished tenth and weighed about 170 lbs. (I'll be honest, I forget the exact weights.)
But then in 1976 he wins and is weighed in at well over 200 lbs, all muscle.
Where did it come from?
People always questioned him.
The difference in 4 years was remarkable.
No other athlete had that type of change for any sport.

FranC · May 1, 2017

joaniemarie said:

Just seeing his name annoyed me. I see this huge man dressed up in a dress and heels with hair extensions.

trying to walk on stage clunking along in his heels and dress looking ridiculous. What is wrong with this picture you people in the world?

I'm a conservative politically so I've been thoroughly disgusted by this confusion in the world. It's taken hold and now people want to be called not male, not female but by their own pronoun. Then as if that's not enough., they are forcing everyone else to join into their delusion.

I find so much solace knowing that the Bible tells us about such things. Good is called evil and evil is called good. Confusion is a spirit. We are in a spiritual battle for the hearts and minds and souls of people. We have seen it even in our own lives if we have lived a while. It's easy for satan to capture people's minds who don't know Jesus. And even those who are Christians can be deceived. So important we be changed by the renewing of our minds by reading the Word and allowing the Holy Spirit to minister truth to our hearts and minds.

I've listened to political debates and if you don't know firmly where you stand and are able to give an answer you can be sucked in. This world is a mess. I'm so thankful we believers have been given the Holy Spirit to be protected in our minds. For God has not given us the "spirit" of fear but of power and love and a SOUND MIND. Thank You Jesus.

I agree.
Ephesians 6:12

FranC · May 1, 2017

AllenW said:

I disagree.
I believe he is 6'2" tall and in his first decathalong in 1972 he finished tenth and weighed about 170 lbs. (I'll be honest, I forget the exact weights.)
But then in 1976 he wins and is weighed in at well over 200 lbs, all muscle.
Where did it come from?
People always questioned him.
The difference in 4 years was remarkable.
No other athlete had that type of change for any sport.

Are you saying he took some type of drug?

Johnny_B · May 1, 2017

AllenW said:

Here's the problem with what you are saying about OSAS, just because someone says they are a Christian or said a pray. Does not mean they are a Christian. Their lifestyle will show that they are a Christian and since you are making if he is off not, you are saying he is displaying that he is not a Christian. This is why you have brought up the teaching of perseverance of the saints.

A person regenerated by the Spirit Of God, lives their whole life unto God. I John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

Paul is saying the same in Colossians 1:22-23 "he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister."

The word "if" is not a conditional clause, it's a conjunction, meaning the evidence that you are reconciled in Christ, is that you live the life of faith, until you receive your inheritance the blessed hope, our glorified bodies. In other words, the evidence of verse 22 is verse 23 in a believers life. You are saying that he has not done that, this is why you are questioning if he is eternally secure, because he claims to be a Christian.

What you are saying is his lifestyle is not that of a regenerate person, so he was never saved, meaning that since he was never saved, he missed the first part of OSAS, because he never was saved once and his life is showing that, by you asking.

ROSSELLA · May 1, 2017

AllenW said:

I don't know much about Bruce/Caitlin. Didn't even know what he/she looked like until the sex change thing. I'm not sure what type of fruit he/she bears.
But, yes, it's possible. We're saved through faith in Jesus alone. The only sin His blood doesn't cover is the eternal rejection of Him. I've never met a Christian (although granted I haven't met many Christians) who never sins, never falsely interprets the Bible, or never deceives him or herself. Once saved, God will change a person and he/she will begin producing fruit of the Spirit, but that doesn't mean the Christian will immediately become perfect and never sin again or misunderstand. If Bruce /Caitlyn has placed his/her faith in Christ alone, he/she is saved. If not, he/ she is still dead in his/her sin. The only one who knows for sure is God.

mattinbirmingham · May 1, 2017

He may well regret his decision. I wouldn't have thought it was easy to go back.

Cerwin · May 1, 2017

joaniemarie said:

I too, Praise Jesus ! For protection and not pulled into delusions of other folk , and for keeping me busy to pull the plank out of my own eye before before pointing out the specks in my brother's eye ...because while my sins may be different they are still many , and I see them for what they are. Teach me dear Father to be strong and pray for those who struggle, not turn in disgust ...because through Your name there is nothing to fear as long as You are with me, Amen !

AllenW · May 1, 2017

FranC said:

Bruce Jenner admitted in 1988 that he took steroids back in the 1970's.
Steroids didn't become illegal until 1975 and many drugs were either unknown or questionable if they really had an affect on one's performance.
But Bruce also admitted his body started to turn into a woman and he started feeling he should be a woman.
The drugs messed him up real good.

mattinbirmingham · May 1, 2017

I thought steroids had the opposite effect!

joaniemarie · May 1, 2017

Knowing how fickle our flesh and blood minds can be is a good thing to be aware of. Based on many factors and how easily we can be influenced has given me added assurance that we NEED and HAVE the safe guarding of our salvation being on the solid Rock of Christ. We were also given the added blessing of the seal of the Holy Spirit and the promise He will not ever leave us.

Our salvation is based on Christ and not on our own ability to maintain our walk. He will maintain our walk for us as we abide. But for sure Jesus has already died on the cross and is carrying the marks of His maintaining power of our eternal life.

AllenW · May 1, 2017

mattinbirmingham said:

Maybe some do. Maybe some don't.
There are so many, how would I know.
Why do baseball players still get caught using steroids?
They go by different names with different ingredients, it's really a mess.
Good luck trying to figure it out.
In the early days in the 70's, steroids in wrong doses could kill you or give you permanent horrible side affects.
They could give you bad cases of acne.
Look at baseball player Mark McGuire, the year he hit 70 home runs around the age of 30, his face was covered with acne.
Different steroids gave different side affects to different people.
That's life.
The best thing is to stay away.

Did you know one of the biggest steroids on the market for athletes was human growth hormone.
Did you know that right up into the 1990's you could buy it legally in health food stores and only became illegal because athletes abused it.
It would be a great help for old people to help keep them healthy and young looking.
People didn't know about it back in the day, only the very healthy minded types knew about it.
Now no one can get it without doctors and scripts and lots of money.
Too bad.

joaniemarie · May 1, 2017

Cerwin said:

Amen sister! I've noticed that the world is always always trying to pull us into it's delusions. I see it on tv and the news and even in oddly innocent things if we are not on guard. It's wherever we go outside our homes for sure but even inside our homes.

If we don't learn and know how to allow the Holy Spirit to be training us about our minds., we will be lead astray as the Bible says by every wind of doctrine even as Christians.

I love how the Bible assures us by saying the Word of God has the power (this is the Holy Spirit/the Word) to cut through all the junk like a 2 edged sword. Cutting into the ideas of things and showing the real intentions of the thoughts of the heart. Also about our weapons of defense being spiritual. "to the pulling down of strong holds of every thought...."
2 Cor. 10:5

[SUP]5 [/SUP]We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,

I'm further encouraged that it's HIS obedience and not mine that I'm to look at. Not look at our own obedience but Jesus obedience. As we see Jesus we see the truth. Looking at ourselves will lead to confusion and failure. Looking to Jesus is where we will have faith. Because He is the Author and Finisher of our faith.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but [SUP][a][/SUP]divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. [SUP]5 [/SUP]We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,

presidente · May 1, 2017

AllenW said:

I'd like to point out the inaccuracy of the title. Should be 'says he's a Christian.' I'm not blaming you, of course, since you are posting a link.

If a violent sicko plastic surgeon kidnapped one of you male posters, kept you prisoner for months, pumped you full of hormones, made you a eunuch, hacked, cut, shaped you and made you look like a woman, would you really be a woman? Why would a man with some severe 'issues' who consents to such a procedure be a woman?

maxwel · May 1, 2017

presidente said:

I'd like to point out the inaccuracy of the title. Should be 'says he's a Christian.' I'm not blaming you, of course, since you are posting a link.

If a violent sicko plastic surgeon kidnapped one of you male posters, kept you prisoner for months, pumped you full of hormones, made you a eunuch, hacked, cut, shaped you and made you look like a woman, would you really be a woman? Why would a man with some severe 'issues' who consents to such a procedure be a woman?

That doesn't really happen around here does it????

presidente · May 2, 2017

maxwel said:

I hope not. If it did, maybe the victims would be afraid to come forward.

The point is, if someone did that to you it wouldn't make you a woman. The only difference here is the patient agreeing to it. If the doctor can't make a woman if he doesn't consent to the operation, he can't make a man a woman if he does consent. It's just a superficial change. It doesn't change what the person truly is. A transexual has genes all throughout his or her body that can be tested to show his or her true biological gender.

FranC · May 2, 2017

AllenW said:

Arnold Schwarzenegger took drugs. I saw him in an interview before he took them and after he took them. All I can say is that they really work. He said they messed him up really bad too. He has kidney problems and other stuff I can't remember. He's really sorry, but too late now.

He's not a Christian. Very worldly. He did this to get to New York. He liked New York as a Young person.

Back to Topic:

Worldly people do many worldly things to try to be happy.
I don't think anything really works... for long periods of time, anyway.

FranC · May 2, 2017

presidente said:

But the person having the operations believe they are BECOMING what they truly are...
They have the body of a man but feel like a woman, so they want a body to match.

Are they just having an identity crises -- that's the question.
The writer I spoke of earler learned that he just had an identity crises.
(he was a man, became a woman, changed back to a man)

FranC · May 2, 2017

presidente said:

Good point.
What about the restroom issue?
A guy feels like he's a gal. Walks into the ladies restroom. Nice...
Obama's law said it depended on what the person FELT they were.
Trump changed it to be what is written on the Birth certificate.
This makes more sense.

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