Burning Gay Flags?

[kaylagrl]

You don't have a flag on your church, so what's the problem? If they feel they want to do that to let homosexuals know they won't be shunned at their church, let them do it..... in peace.

Cant disagree with you more on this one Willie. You can show you welcome people without condoning their lifestyle. A gay flag on a church is an abomination. Its ridiculous to say you need to hang a flag to make gays feel accepted in a church. Do you hang the Nazi flag? ISIS flag? Seriously! Has the church fallen that far.Lord help us.

 

[Willie-T]

Yes its clear whats in the heart of those who defend this sort of wickedness. "H" is in the heart of anyone who promotes this wickedness in the name of Christ.

I sure HOPE it's clear, because Jesus said it should be seen and lived.

 

[kaylagrl]

I suspect you misread that passage. He didn't clear that small portion of the outer court of the Temple because they welcomed people that others shunned. He did it because the were using it for a marketplace.

He did it because they were charging unfair prices and robbing people.They were misusing the temple for their own gain. Jesus cleared the temple for that reason. Waving a gay flag is also misusing the church and Jesus would react the same way today.

 

[Willie-T]

Cant disagree with you more on this one Willie. You can show you welcome people without condoning their lifestyle. A gay flag on a church is an abomination. Its ridiculous to say you need to hang a flag to make gays feel accepted in a church. Do you hang the Nazi flag? ISIS flag? Seriously! Has the church fallen that far.Lord help us.

You don't even see that this is EXACTLY the same thing they said of Jesus when He actually went right into the very houses of undesirables, and "touched" them, do you?

 

[kaylagrl]

You don't even see that this is EXACTLY the same thing they said of Jesus when He actually went right into the very houses of undesirables, and "touched" them, do you?

Come on Willie. Give me a break. Its not the same thing at all.Of course Jesus would talk to gays.He'd tell them how empty their life was and how He's the answer to what they are seeking. He'd also tell them the path they are taking will lead to death. He'd tell them to go their way and sin no more.He'd convict them. Putting a gay flag on a church is ridiculous. You're not trying to show support for the lifestyle,you invite people to church where they will hopefully be convicted to change their lifestyle.

 

[Willie-T]

Come on Willie. Give me a break. Its not the same thing at all.Of course Jesus would talk to gays.He'd tell them how empty their life was and how He's the answer to what they are seeking. He'd also tell them the path they are taking will lead to death. He'd tell them to go their way and sin no more.He'd convict them. Putting a gay flag on a church is ridiculous. You're not trying to show support for the lifestyle,you invite people to church where they will hopefully be convicted to change their lifestyle.

That's the way you feel you would do it (and you see all the homosexuals you're reaching right now...) And a flag is how these other people feel they are to do it.

 

[tanach]

That's YOUR question, I never implied we should start burning the gays.

I am aware you never suggested it, but you mentioned civil disobedience and 'Further Action' without specifying what form this further action is supposed to take. I just took the idea to an extreme.

 

[BenFTW]

You don't even see that this is EXACTLY the same thing they said of Jesus when He actually went right into the very houses of undesirables, and "touched" them, do you?

Willie, I know that you're, as I am, big on grace and you don't want to alienate people from the goodness of God. You want homosexuals, for example, to realize God doesn't condemn them in Christ, that He died for them. That is wonderful and is the Gospel truth.

Putting this flag up on a church in support of LGBT is not grace though, it is actually against grace. Grace doesn't justify our sins, it sets us free from them. The flag is being used not as a means to draw people in but to take a political stance. Sure, they are not condemning homosexuals (good for them) but neither are they setting them free if they permit this support as a means to justify their lifestyle.

People associate the flag with LGBT and to put it up means you agree with their values. Such a church is endorsing homosexuality, and not the grace of God. God's grace doesn't just by the blood of Jesus forgive and forget our sins, but it also breaks its dominion over us. So if they put this flag up in support of such lifestyles they are denying the changing power of God's grace. It breaks the shackles of sin, and allows us to live unto God. This support keeps people in their sin (bondage) and tries to not condemn them at the cost of true liberty found in God's grace.

 

[Kefa54]

I agree. Walking into a church building no more makes us Christian then walking into a garage makes us a car.

God help you if you think we have to go to a church building to find Jesus.

 

[Omni]

Cant disagree with you more on this one Willie. You can show you welcome people without condoning their lifestyle. A gay flag on a church is an abomination. Its ridiculous to say you need to hang a flag to make gays feel accepted in a church. Do you hang the Nazi flag? ISIS flag? Seriously! Has the church fallen that far.Lord help us.

I think it's totally possible that people who own churches and hang those flags, do so as though to say: "this house accepts sinners of all stripes", not, "sin is absolutely okay". The reason for this, I would imagine, is because, although the bible lists a multitude of actions that are offensive to God, for some reason this particular sin is more often fiercely reviled, and those who practice it are shunned and defamed and dehumanized by many churches. Those churches who hang those flags, perhaps have congregations who do not take any more a militant attitude towards homosexuality than they do to say adultery for instance.

I would imagine that very few churches actively practice a doctrine of "being homosexual is acceptable to God", but that those who do hang such flags instead practice a doctrine of "being homosexual is no less acceptable to God than being divorced". There is a difference there. To let gay people know "this is a church where you're welcome, if you want to follow God", is probably helpful for homosexual people to identify the churches they can enter and be treated just the same as any other person who performs a multitude of different actions that are offensive to God. As I understand it, there's nobody who doesn't offend God in some way or other, through their behaviours.

 

[Willie-T]

I think it's totally possible that people who own churches and hang those flags, do so as though to say: "this house accepts sinners of all stripes", not, "sin is absolutely okay". The reason for this, I would imagine, is because, although the bible lists a multitude of actions that are offensive to God, for some reason this particular sin is more often fiercely reviled, and those who practice it are shunned and defamed and dehumanized by many churches. Those churches who hang those flags, perhaps have congregations who do not take any more a militant attitude towards homosexuality than they do to say adultery for instance.

I would imagine that very few churches actively practice a doctrine of "being homosexual is acceptable to God", but that those who do hang such flags instead practice a doctrine of "being homosexual is no less acceptable to God than being divorced". There is a difference there. To let gay people know "this is a church where you're welcome, if you want to follow God", is probably helpful for homosexual people to identify the churches they can enter and be treated just the same as any other person who performs a multitude of different actions that are offensive to God. As I understand it, there's nobody who doesn't offend God in some way or other, through their behaviours.

Spoken as though you had been sitting at the very knee of Jesus. Thank you.

 

[Willie-T]

Willie, I know that you're, as I am, big on grace and you don't want to alienate people from the goodness of God. You want homosexuals, for example, to realize God doesn't condemn them in Christ, that He died for them. That is wonderful and is the Gospel truth.

Putting this flag up on a church in support of LGBT is not grace though, it is actually against grace. Grace doesn't justify our sins, it sets us free from them. The flag is being used not as a means to draw people in but to take a political stance. Sure, they are not condemning homosexuals (good for them) but neither are they setting them free if they permit this support as a means to justify their lifestyle.

People associate the flag with LGBT and to put it up means you agree with their values. Such a church is endorsing homosexuality, and not the grace of God. God's grace doesn't just by the blood of Jesus forgive and forget our sins, but it also breaks its dominion over us. So if they put this flag up in support of such lifestyles they are denying the changing power of God's grace. It breaks the shackles of sin, and allows us to live unto God. This support keeps people in their sin (bondage) and tries to not condemn them at the cost of true liberty found in God's grace.

I apologize. I didn't know you had been in communication with any of these churches, to know their policies and intentions.... but obviously, you must have been.

 

[BenFTW]

I think it's totally possible that people who own churches and hang those flags, do so as though to say: "this house accepts sinners of all stripes", not, "sin is absolutely okay". The reason for this, I would imagine, is because, although the bible lists a multitude of actions that are offensive to God, for some reason this particular sin is more often fiercely reviled, and those who practice it are shunned and defamed and dehumanized by many churches. Those churches who hang those flags, perhaps have congregations who do not take any more a militant attitude towards homosexuality than they do to say adultery for instance.

I would imagine that very few churches actively practice a doctrine of "being homosexual is acceptable to God", but that those who do hang such flags instead practice a doctrine of "being homosexual is no less acceptable to God than being divorced". There is a difference there. To let gay people know "this is a church where you're welcome, if you want to follow God", is probably helpful for homosexual people to identify the churches they can enter and be treated just the same as any other person who performs a multitude of different actions that are offensive to God. As I understand it, there's nobody who doesn't offend God in some way or other, through their behaviours.

I will concede and say that both perspectives exist. There are those that truly do endorse a homosexual lifestyle (not allowing God's grace to set people free) and then there are those that welcome homosexuals as they would any other sinner (allowing God's grace to do its thing). I am sure the flag is used both ways. One way is most definitely in opposition to God's grace and the other is done in such a way as to not condemn and is full of grace and love. I prefer the latter, and if the flag is used in this way it is understandable. I just think there are repercussions to this, it can give off the wrong impression.

 

[Willie-T]

I will concede and say that both perspectives exist. There are those that truly do endorse a homosexual lifestyle (not allowing God's grace to set people free) and then there are those that welcome homosexuals as they would any other sinner (allowing God's grace to do its thing). I am sure the flag is used both ways. One way is most definitely in opposition to God's grace and the other is done in such a way as to not condemn and is full of grace and love. I prefer the latter, and if the flag is used in this way it is understandable. I just think there are repercussions to this, it can give off the wrong impression.

As did Jesus to the Religious Community with just about everything He said or did.

 

[didymos]

What would Jesus done? ...

Clear the 'temple,' no doubt.

 

[BenFTW]

I apologize. I didn't know you had been in communication with any of these churches, to know their policies and intentions.... but obviously, you must have been.

I would think you would come in agreement and not question my integrity Willie. Did I say something you disagree with? Did I say something that was condemning of homosexuals or any member of the LGBT community? No, I pointed out the error of a church politically standing in agreement with the LGBT community at the cost of not allowing God's grace to set them free from sin. I don't see why you would feel the need to speak to me in such a way.

I have already pointed out that both perspectives exist, where the flag is used to endorse sin and another to be welcoming of a persecuted group. I, again, ask Willie, did I say something wrong?

 

[didymos]

I am aware you never suggested it, but you mentioned civil disobedience and 'Further Action' without specifying what form this further action is supposed to take. I just took the idea to an extreme.

Your words not mine. It's ok to burn faggots, not gays.

 

[didymos]

This is just another divisive thread.

Divisive is hanging provocative flags from church buildings.

 

[BenFTW]

As did Jesus to the Religious Community with just about everything He said or did.

Not only can it give off the wrong impression, it also can keep people from walking in who they are in Christ. The righteousness of God in Jesus Christ. If someone feels justified in being in sin because of God's grace they still need a revelation of God's grace. It, as you know, is not a license to sin and it sets us free. I am failing to see why you are so adamantly opposed to what I am saying, which isn't condemning homosexuals in the least. God's grace is sufficient.

Whats up Willie? I know that you are trying ever so hard to not be condemning and neither am I. You can't deny, however, that there are Christians who endorse homosexuality. I was only addressing that, and not condemning homosexuals. You're scaring me Willie, we usually agree. We are both believers in God's grace.

 

[BenFTW]

So I read something about american churches that embrace the 'LGBTQ community.' Those churches show their love of gays, lesbians and the like by displaying rainbows flag on the facades of the church buildings and by using them at gatherings etc. But people keep stealing, 'vandalizing' and even burning those banners:.. understandable, because the flag itself is a provocation for true christians.

Now we shouldn't touch other people's belongings, let alone vandalize or steal them, but sometimes enough is enough. Ofcourse, scripture tells us to submit to governing authorities (Rom 13: 1-7), but isn't some sort of civil disobedience or even further action (in God's name) in order here? Like it says in Acts: We ought to obey God rather than men. (Acts 5: 29)

What did you read? Can you provide a link (to the article)?