Calvinists,Im Asking...

[Ariel82]

For us, that is the same thing. Reformed Theology is about understanding the Bible as a whole.

Have you not noticed? You refute from something you read in the Bible, and we come back with a larger view of the very thing you used to refute. You hit us with the Law, we're not coming back with Peter walking on water. We're coming to that same scene you're at. It is very much the whole Bible for us. It's another word we use a lot "systematic theology." That compares to a little-here-and-a-little-there theology. It is ever so much the complete book for us!

Yeah...and non Calvinist have "systematic theology" too. Most also claim to look at the WHOLE BIBLE in context.

Admittedly you can always find folks both Reformed and Arminian would declare as preaching a false gospel, but the over all point is everyone wants to believe the way they read the Bible is the right way...

Otherwise they would change their views and positions.

 

[Depleted]

Jesus appeared to the world. His Gospel,His words are the light but not all have Jesus within them

In Genesis it says God breathed life into man...often translated as soul.

I say some because out of every generation God has His chosen few that he keeps from turning away or that He restores.

Jesus is the light. He is the Word. He is the gospel!

And, in Genesis, God-breathed isn't soul. Breath is "spirit." It's the same word we have for reSPIRation, inSPIRation, asSPIRation. It is breath, not soul.

And at the fall, that spirit breathed into man -- God's spirit in Man -- died. God's breath was removed. And only God can give it back. No light in us to rekindle. That light is God! That breath is God. He has to give mouth-to-mouth respiration to give us back his life in us. He didn't ask us if we wanted it. He loved us enough not to wait around for the answer. Dead men don't answer!

 

[notmyown]

I am just asking questions non CALVINIST ask all the time.

I know folks are saved by grace alone through faith in the finished works of Jesus and have seen the Bible verses for election.

I have also seen both sides argue over the verses, so no thanks. I don't think that will help me understand why both positions get so nasty with one another and what is really different about either position.

I know what I believe, but I only have a vague clue what others believe.

i am so sorry if i was nasty. it really wasn't my intent, and i do know you know salvation is a gift.

it was only in that context of "what others believe" that i asked.

 

[Depleted]

I think that terror is what is left for unbelievers. In the moment we become the children of God, the fear of His magnificence, power etc stays, but the terror as such (something painful, without peace in our mind) goes away.

But this is just my point of view and we may be using words differently.

I admit there is some terror in me toward the Lord. I've seen what he does in his wrath. It's bigger than lightning right above me. It's bigger than Lake Pontchartrain flooding the French Quarter in half an hour. It's bigger than the Battle of the Bulge, which was smaller than Mount Etna going off. (Hubby's dad was in the Battle of the Bulge and saw Mount Edna erupt. The Bulge terrified him. Etna was even more so.) It's bigger than Mt. Etna erupting!

I revere God. I love God. But he is also terrifying.

Every time someone saw God (Moses, Paul, and John) they landed on their face. I don't think that's mere reverence. I think terrified is in there somewhere.

 

[notmyown]

i'm signing out because life.

i still think it's a worthwhile discussion, and i thank the OP for initiating it.

 

[ForthAngel]

People can be influenced by God without being born again,for no person comes to the Son,except the Father draws them,and God was working in our lives to guide us to the truth,before we confessed Christ,for God works in everyone's life before they accept Christ,if their heart is in the right condition to be called.

For once God calls a person He works in their life to guide them to the truth,and if they come to confess Christ,and receive the Spirit,then God will choose them.

God is at hand in a lot of things,with people that are in the truth,and in the world,but with the saints He works the most in their lives,and they know it.

Not all people are drawn by the Father. If they were, all would be saved. I've already gone over John 6 several times on this thread, so I'm not doing it again, but you should honestly read it and not impose your presuppositions onto the text. John 10 is another you should read and honestly and try to understand. It's about the Shepherd and his sheep. In fact, I'd like to see your own exegesis of John 6:36-47 and John 10. These are soterological passages and say nothing in regards to man's will, but that of God's will. You keep posting a lot of single verses ripped of their context and I don't have the time or patience any more to refute people from scripture, plus people are reporting us for doing so. So, if you wanna be honest with scripture and not make Jesus out to be a liar, I suggest you read the passages I mentioned and read them honestly.

 

[Depleted]

You know, if somebody wants to know "what Calvinists believe", google is the best source... there are so many calvinistic websites, teachers, preachers, catechisms (Heidelberg), synods (Dordrecht), confessions (2nd helvetic confession), youtube discussions etc...


If somebody wants to know what specifically some people here on CC believe about Calvinism, PM seems to be the best way.

Any discussion thread will be filled with irrelevant posts and useless discussions...

Any discussion thread will be filled with irrelevant posts and useless discussions. However, has that ever stopped us anyway?

Forum. Kind of goes with a place where lots of people talk a lot. lol

 

[Depleted]

That's a malicious lie and complete slander. I personally spent a month at Bethel Church and they were more Christ-like then any other churches I have seen. I didn't see any of this heretical nonsense they were being accused of. It's a bunch of lies taken out of context and twisted into something else.

When I was there in Redding there was a church that was just as malicious and lying about Bethel in their community and they had run into trouble.

Bethel leadership took up an offering for these malicious lying slanderers and bailed that church out of it's financial troubles - allowing it to continue on. That's Christ-like.

It is foul behavior like this that makes people reject Christ and I don't blame them. It's shameful behavior and ungodly.

And, again, how can you say something is a lie, if you have no reference on what is being talked about? I too think something is truly funky with Bethel. I haven't hit "heretic" yet, because I don't get it all the way to know if it is heretical or not. BUT something is funky about them.

Are you going to call me a slanderer or a liar too? I've got no problem with you disagreeing, but hate that you jumped the gun right for "liar and slanderer" without even hearing someone out.

If you so choose, feel free to start a thread on Bethel to get what people have against them. I can guarantee you'll meet others who are for them too, but either way, stop using the "liar" card and the "slanderer" card without proof! It's beginning to feel like you got your pack of cards at a tricks shop and picked the pack with 24 "liar" cards" and 28 "slanderer" cards.

Either someone has to agree with you 100% or bammo! Your card hits the table!!!

Unbecoming!

 

[Ariel82]

i am so sorry if i was nasty. it really wasn't my intent, and i do know you know salvation is a gift.

it was only in that context of "what others believe" that i asked.

Nah, you are never nasty.

I just need to spend some more time in scripture and prayer

. Sorry if I was short with you.

 

[Ariel82]

i'm signing out because life.

i still think it's a worthwhile discussion, and i thank the OP for initiating it.

My sentiments too. Taking some girl scouts camping this weekend. Praying that God protects us all.

See my beloved brothers and sisters in Christ later.

 

[Depleted]

For the record - I don't believe everything any preacher or church believes about every subject.

But I can see slander when I see it and it is horrible, un-Christ-like behavior no matter how much we try to disguise it as "defending the truth" or "rightly dividing the word of truth".

We should be ashamed of ourselves in the body of Christ for such foul behavior.

It's time to grow up in the Lord and stop this malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ.

1 Peter 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,

I'm glad you can see it. Can you see it in yourself though? Because that blast was very unChrist like.

 

[ForthAngel]

Pelegian is all have turned.

Semi-Pelegan is some have turned.

Arminians aren't Pelegans. Even they are affronted by the concept that God saves all.

That's why I hate that word as much as I hate "hyper-Calvinist." It describes less than 1% of the group, and annoys the rest when they're called that.

Most on the free-will side expresses parts of the Pelagian heresy in one way or another though, whether they identify with it or not.

 

[kaylagrl]

i'm signing out because life.

i still think it's a worthwhile discussion, and i thank the OP for initiating it.

Hope you'll be back! Im amazed myself. Expect for a little sniping here and there I think we're doing good. But hey,famous last words...

 

[Depleted]

The above post reflects cultic thinking. You are not allowed to think on your own, or test the Spirits if they come from God. That is all thrown out by misused proof texts. All sects misuse texts to control others in order to deceive.

You know something?

I'm tossed about you. On the one hand, you sure do get the Bible and you're a good read when you're talking about it.

On the other hand, you would have to work hard at being more arrogant than you are. You're usually annoyingly aggressive, working hard at putting a specific person down, and then you get passive-aggressive where you're putting down many people, calling that "they and "them" because you know if you named names it is bannable on this site, so you don't. Quite un-Christ like. Very arrogant.

BUT then I get drawn back in because you do present the Bible well.

I really do get Grace7 crossed the line. He didn't merely cross it, he left it quite a bit back from where he went. And, I can see where you could take offense with that. But, man, dude! When 75% of what you do is to be intentionally offensive, I would think you'd give leeway for others to be equally offensive more often.

I've really been mixed on what I think of you, but I just now made up my mind.

Off to Iggyland with you. You are no different than Lonestar was. And please note the past-tense of Lonestar. He's banned. I never reported him. (He hit Iggyland the day he joined this site for me. lol) I have reported you.

You understand the theology. You've never given an inch after God gave you mercy. I'd rather be merciful and wrong, than arrogant and right like you.

(Oh, and please feel free to give me another what-for, since I never did read your last what-for. Ignored is ignored, so feel free to have another temper tantrum all over me.)

 

[Depleted]

Off topic, but humorous. Every so often I go through my Ignore list to try and remember why I have someone on ignore. I just did. And took off five people from my ignore list because they've been banned since I ignored them.

Coincidence? I think not! lol

 

[ForthAngel]

And, again, how can you say something is a lie, if you have no reference on what is being talked about? I too think something is truly funky with Bethel. I haven't hit "heretic" yet, because I don't get it all the way to know if it is heretical or not. BUT something is funky about them.

Are you going to call me a slanderer or a liar too? I've got no problem with you disagreeing, but hate that you jumped the gun right for "liar and slanderer" without even hearing someone out.

If you so choose, feel free to start a thread on Bethel to get what people have against them. I can guarantee you'll meet others who are for them too, but either way, stop using the "liar" card and the "slanderer" card without proof! It's beginning to feel like you got your pack of cards at a tricks shop and picked the pack with 24 "liar" cards" and 28 "slanderer" cards.

Either someone has to agree with you 100% or bammo! Your card hits the table!!!

Unbecoming!

I can give you one for sure example of their heresy, that being their teaching of the Bridal Paradigm. They believe they actually marry Jesus. That's why the music from their band Jesus Culture is so sensual, bordering on sexual at times. And I won't even get started on their "manifestations". The church leader Bill Johnson is linked to the Toronto blessing and other heretical movements.

 

[Depleted]

And yet He said "I am the light of the World."

And we chose to hide in the darkness to hide our sin.

 

[Depleted]

Dumb question but from your POV if you are the elect you will persevere,you cannot fall away from the faith correct?

Right. And I've tried.

 

[Depleted]

God can be with someone but not in them. Until a person realises there need for Christ and comes to full repentance God can be with them but not in them.
A good example is when Jesus breathed on the apostles to receive the holy spirit.
Another example is with Abraham and Sarah. When God changed there name the Hebrew expression was breath. Such is the case of Adam God breath into him the breath of life.

We refused to realize! We could. We didn't. John 3:18-20. So realizing our need was in God's court too. John 3:21.

 

[Angela53510]

Believer of God or heathen? Remember this is before "Israel" was ever born.

Genesis 20
And Abimelech king of Gerar sent and took Sarah. 3But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night and said to him, “Behold, you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man’s wife.” 4Now Abimelech had not approached her. So he said, “Lord, will you kill an innocent people? 5Did he not himself say to me, ‘She is my sister’? And she herself said, ‘He is my brother.’ In the integrity of my heart and the innocence of my hands I have done this.” 6Then God said to him in the dream, “Yes, I know that you have done this in the integrity of your heart, and it was I who kept you from sinning against me. Therefore I did not let you touch her. 7Now then, return the man’s wife, for he is a prophet, so that he will pray for you, and you shall live. But if you do not return her, know that you shall surely die, you and all who are yours.”

If you read the verses preceding these, you will see this:

"From there Abraham journeyed toward the territory of the Negeb and lived between Kadesh and Shur; and he sojourned in Gerar.2 And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, “She is my sister.” And Abimelech king of Gerar sent and took Sarah." Gen. 20:1-2

The Negev is the desert area south of Jerusalem in what we call Israel, although that was not the name in those days. So Abraham was not near the Babylon. He was in Gerar where Abimelech was king.

"Hebrew: גְּרָר‎‎ Gərār, "lodging-place" was a Philistine town and district in what is today south central Israel, mentioned in the Book of Genesis."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerar

So it was a place basically near the western sea of the future Israel. What was my first clue? Well, Babylon was the place that Abraham left before he went to Ur, before he went to Israel. It was a long ways away. This event is in pre-Israel, with an early Philistine king.

That is why we were all confused.