Calvinists,Im Asking...

[Ariel82]

John 6:40 is the key but it says that they who see must believe to be saved. I agree that it is considered soteriological but the Father giving to Jesus all who believe is not supporting your interpretation and application. It cannot contradict John 16. The Holy Spirit convicts all men of sin, righteousness and judgment. Some turn to Christ and some turn to themselves.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

What causes some to turn to Christ?

 

[Ariel82]

Just checking. What's your opinion of someone who can do both -- be an immature brat, and then not be one?

We can braid each other's hair and have a slumber party, cuz that would describe me to a T.

God is still helping me over come my bratiness.

 

[Depleted]

God did tell us to test the spirits. So they may be "spiritual" just not filled with the Holy spirit.

Demons are evil spirits.

Aaah all these different uses of the same word gives me a headache.

Spirit in Christian circles = "God breathed."

Does that help?

 

[Depleted]

Okay good to know.


Lynn, you prefer Cherry or Apple humble pie? You totally pegged it.

I made strawberry-rhubarb yesterday. I'm good. lol

 

[BenFTW]

What causes some to turn to Christ?

God's goodness leads men to repentance. All of them that turn are turned for that reason, Holy Spirit convicting them of sin, righteousness, and judgement. They get a revelation of this great love, the Gospel, the ever too good to be true news that is true!

 

[Ariel82]

Which do you prefer -- foil or cane?

That question really does make sense to me as someone who did stained-glass, but it doesn't mean much to those who have not.

In like kind, we Reformers understand grace differently than you.

Common grace? I think we all get that. That's the grace that makes it rain on the just and unjust.

You've got Prevenient grace. We don't believe in that one. We just don't.

Irresistible grace. I don't know if you get what we mean any better now then when this started.

Saving grace and justifying grace? Nada. Nothing. Don't have any idea what either of those mean to you. Best I can go with is God's special unmerited favor to his kids only. "Uncommon grace?" Is that the same thing as either of those to you? God saves. God justifies. Whether that is grace or not simply isn't in my vocabulary to answer.

I probably still didn't answer your question, but by now I hope you see where the problem is that we can't. Kind of like cane or foil? You have to be in the culture to understand the question.

I like sugar cane.

 

[Depleted]

hi Ariel82 yes im a christian universalist and i believe everyone and everything will be reconciled through Christ eventually.. universalism might be looked at as weird today but in the early church many were universalists infact like origen he is quite famous. i also wanna say that it doesnt mean i dont believe in God's judgment, i just believe its a 'corrective' punishment if you will like the word kolasis actually means pruning a tree or correct i dont wanna hijack this thread but if you are interested tentmaker is a good website to learn of it...

i do believe the I and P in TULIP maybe T but im not sure what they mean by total depravity, i think its evident people are looking for something spiritual thats why you have so many religions and systems up so there is something in man that wants truth. but maybe they mean people cant find the truth unless God draws them in which case i agree!!!

my personal question to calvinists is do you think God actively intervenes in society today or is it only in bringing people to faith???? do you believe in miracles or healing?

You are a Universalist. By very nature, that is not Christian.

 

[Depleted]

hi Depleted this is extremely interesting where can i find out more. was it like this in all countries in the past you think?

Dunno. Something I read from Adam Clarke in his commentary on one of the books in the Pentateuch. (I think Exodus, but it's been so long ago, I forgot which.)

 

[Ariel82]

Spirit in Christian circles = "God breathed."

Does that help?

No because the "spirit" in what folks claim to be Christian circles is too often evil speaking: back biting, whispering, gossip, slander, etc.

However you see folks with a humble joyful heart, and those are the folks I like to sit next too.

Much more likely to feel the "breath of God" working upon hearts who seek peace, love and understanding than evil speaking folks.

PS "evil speaking" is not a term I made up. I heard it in a sermon by Wesley and think it's a good reminder that God's standards is higher than the worlds.evil speaking is more than lying and slander. It can be 100% true and still evil to speak about because it causes harm to others without any real motive to heal or teach.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/151868-cure-evil-speaking.html

 

[ForthAngel]

PS I only saw one time you lost your temper, so don't k,ow why you would be reported beyond that instance. Personally I don't report anyone I am having a disgreement with. I only report those stalking folks through lots of threads.

I'm only human. Also, I know I prolly come across as being coarse and abrasive sometimes. Other times, I think people just chafe against certain truths. Trust me, I still catch myself being offended by some things in scripture and have to just take it.

 

[Depleted]

If i am not one of the elected than do i have the choice to be saved?

Seriously? This thread is because of your thread. You weren't listening. Most on your thread weren't listening to what we're saying. AND you spent tons and tons of time scolding without listening. You have your own thread to continue on with your tirade against Calvinism. Why repeat on here except to say, "I am much more important than Kayla or anyone else, so listen to me"?

You were free to babble on and on about the great injustice you think Calvinism is. Good manners says don't babble on someone else's post too, especially when you're saying word for word what you already said!

 

[Ariel82]

I'm only human. Also, I know I prolly come across as being coarse and abrasive sometimes. Other times, I think people just chafe against certain truths. Trust me, I still catch myself being offended by some things in scripture and have to just take it.

Nah I like you most days, and you are like a walking dictionary (which is meant as a compliment, kind of)

just stop calling me a Pelagian and I won't say you believe in ultimate election....how's that for a truce?

Lol.

 

[ForthAngel]

Nah I like you most days, and you are like a walking dictionary (which is meant as a compliment, kind of)

just stop calling me a Pelagian and I won't say you believe in ultimate election....how's that for a truce?

Lol.

I already told you I think you are more reformed than you think A bit back and forth sometimes, but for the most part I think you adhere to some reformed doctrines.

But you have at the very least presented some Pelagian ideas. I never said you followed or endorsed Pelagianism though or even called you one. All I've said is that some of your ideas are Pelagian in nature.

 

[notuptome]

It doesn't contradict John 16 since Jesus already defined who the all are. Also in John 10. Sometimes I wish chapter divisions weren't in the bible. They just cause confusion like this. Just because all are convicted, it doesn't mean the Father has drawn them to Christ, because if the Father has drawn them to Christ, they will without a doubt be saved according to Jesus' own words.

You are endeavoring to make the word of God say something that it is not saying. You must maintain context to arrive at the correct understanding.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

What causes some to turn to Christ?

God's goodness leads men to repentance. All of them that turn are turned for that reason, Holy Spirit convicting them of sin, righteousness, and judgement. They get a revelation of this great love, the Gospel, the ever too good to be true news that is true!

Jesus gives us a clear answer in John 3:20-21.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ForthAngel]

You are endeavoring to make the word of God say something that it is not saying. You must maintain context to arrive at the correct understanding.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

I have maintained the context. You are the one imposing on the text what isn't there. John 6 in no way implies that Jesus is only talking about his Apostles. You have imposed that on the text and use it to interpret the rest of the book.

 

[Ariel82]

Forth, you know you and Roger will never agree right?

 

[Ariel82]

Jesus gives us a clear answer in John 3:20-21.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

20For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

****

So you are saying good works save?

 

[preacher4truth]

You are endeavoring to make the word of God say something that it is not saying. You must maintain context to arrive at the correct understanding.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

Actually you're attempting to not let the Word speak. It is an attempt to not allow the Word to teach what is clearly there since it goes against traditional beliefs.

 

[Ariel82]

I already told you I think you are more reformed than you think A bit back and forth sometimes, but for the most part I think you adhere to some reformed doctrines.

I adhere to the Bible read in context. No labels needed.

But you have at the very least presented some Pelagian ideas. I never said you followed or endorsed Pelagianism though or even called you one. All I've said is that some of your ideas are Pelagian in nature.

So...no truce then?