Can a CHRISTIAN have a DEMON?

Baruch · Jun 20, 2009

Then this can never happen, right?

Matthew 7: 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Remember, they were accusing that the Holy Spirit in Him was of the devil. Jesus was not calling for the Spirit of God to come to cast out devils or to come to do any healing whatsoever otherwise they would be accusing Him differently.

Deliverances today as some are being done.. not all... by calling for the Holy Spirit to come. It is on that basis that I have made my statement below that you had responded to.

The popularity or success of these deliverances as publisized or spread by word of mouth are not really fully known. That is just an appearance or hype. Reports from similar format have shown that these healings are temporary.. or switched out with another ailment or illness or added to a returned condition they were in. No follow up has ever been done that has shown a favorable report.

I can testify myself of Ernest Angeley calling for the Spirit of God to come to heal me of my deaf left ear and the tinnitus in my right ear. All I got was a tickling in my deaf ear, but the audience applauded that. The next day, after school, I was unusually tired so I took a nap. When I awoke, I was paralyzed as an electrical humming was felt in the room. I started praying to Jesus for help: then I was able to flick my right wrist.. and then the left. I was able to lift my right hand up and then the left. Then I lifted my right forearm and then the left forearm, and by the time I lifted my right arm enough to be rolling over, lifting my right shoulder blade off of the bed, the paralysis was over as I felt like a great weight had been on me.

It was later on in years that I saw on television of people calling for the Holy Spirit that were knocked & pinned to the floor paralyzed that I realized what had transpired that day. I also point out Jesus' warning to christians that if they say He is in the upper room or in the desert, don't go there. I can testify as to why He had said that.

We are not to suffer a thief to break through. So christians can be influenced to a point whereas their houses are broken through and great is the fall of it. A thief does not possess the house, but break it up. With the Holy Spirit in us, that is why the thief cannot stay. He comes and goes, but Jesus warned believers to watch and not suffer a thief to break through. Preaching another spirit to receive is suffering a thief to break through. Preaching another baptism of the Holy Spirit that comes with evidence of tongues is falling away from the faith to give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devil whereas God will permit a strong delusion in believing a lie for not holding to the love of the truth. We are are saved by faith in Jesus Christ through the sanctification of the Spirit and the belief of the truth in the one hope of our calling. So to avoid all false spirits and false prophets, the way to approaching God must be narrowed back to Jesus only because that is Whom the Holy Spirit in us is pointing us to... not to Himself for He will not speak of Himself but of the Son so as to glorify Him.

More than ever, the saying to keep your eyes on Jesus is more urgent today than it ever has been.

I do not dispute your reference, but I was referring to the rudiment found in the world by calling for the spirit to come and thus no need on our part for calling on the Holy Spirit for He is is already in us as promised for coming to and believing in Jesus Christ.

So.. yeah.. they may hype up all these signs and lying wonders, but seeing how it is being done, I know it is a work of iniquity. There is only one name under the heavens by which men are to be saved and that name is Jesus Christ. If they do not call on His name ONLY, then they serve not the Lord Jesus Christ for false prophets would broaden the way given in approaching God the Father... and that is how they become workers of iniquity.

MaggieMye · Jun 21, 2009

#54 Sweetie36 wrote: "Every does not agree..........
If you have strong Faith you have the Holy Spirit within you. You will be fine......................If you have strong Faith you are close to God............
This is spiritual ignorance.
Here's the deal: The Gadarene demoniac of the Gospels, BELIEVED that Jesus had power and was from God. Even the demons withIN him believed for they acknowledge who He was. But despite the FACT that the demons HAD TO BE CAST OUT from the man, it was the MAN that sought Jesus out...not the demons. So the man HAD the faith, but still he had demons.
FAITH is BELIEF. It is not knowledge of the spiritual realm and how it works, other than that Jesus is the Son of God. That belief, ALONE, without understanding of what "Savior" encompasses, can still have people believing with all their hearts that Jesus is who He says He is, but perishing for lack of knowledge and understanding of the tactics of the enemy….lack of understanding GOD'S intentions towards us. So, they suffer….just like the Gaderene.
#55 Pickles: "I have never known a spirit filled person with a demon. Unless a person has cancelled all curses, both word curses and generational curses, has repented for every sin they've committed since salvation…if the person is suffering any malady that cannot be CURED by medication, it IS a spiritual problem…demonic.
In fact I have often wondered if I am called to this." You are!

e-Sword 86 wrote: "I believe those who do understand what deliverance is about probably spend their time in service to those members in need rather trying to persuade those who don't have the same view who is right." Pretty much….but some of us do love a good debate…especially if it will help remove that veil of confusion and disbelief and help a sister or brother step into greater understanding…..it's that teaching gift in a lot of us.

Baruch wrote: "Not all deliverance is done after Jesus Christ. Some may do these "ministry" after the Holy Spirit or even after an angel. It is by broadening the singular way to approach God the Father through the Son that the work of iniquity is defined. I'm not getting what you mean by "after Jesus Christ".
Those slain in the "spirit" can take heed and narrow the way back to the straight gate to avoid that again." Just because you have not been slain in the Spirit, does not mean it is not God. You limit Him.
Maggie

Baruch · Jun 21, 2009

MaggieMye said:

Now you discern this by His grace.

Those that seek after the spirit, even if they call that spirit the Holy Spirit, are doing so not after Christ. You do not treat the "Holy Spirit" as another "go to" Person of the Trinity when He is in us as promised by Jesus.

By seeking for the Holy Spirit to come as those slain in the Spirit will testify, they are not heeding His words nor keeping His sayings about coming to Jesus when coming to God the Father in worship, thus they are suffering a thief to break through and great is the fall of that house.

What is the purpose of being slain in the Spirit? All it does is glorify the coming and going of the Holy Spirit which is NOT the Holy Spirit. They can testify falsely as to what it does, but it is not of the truth.

For a believer to be knocked down by the "Holy Spirit" as a witness of Jesus Christ, goes against His Word of Him being meek and lowly in heart for all that seek Him to rest in Him. This "spirit" in its coming and going is a bully. Nothing else.

All manifestations of the Spirit are given to profit the body withal.

Anybody can fake being slain in the spirit just as there are real events of spirits knocking people down. I was pinned down in my bed and by praying to Jesus, I was able to move more and more till I was free. And that was due to being at Ernest Angeley's Crusade where he would call for the Holy Spirit to come and say.. "Whooooo!" as if that will help that spirit along.

Discern this as a rudiment in the world. Of all the movements of
the "spirit" you had discerned as false, and compare that with those you did not think twice about but accepted it as being of God, then why is it that other spirits come there and not the Holy Spirit whom they had called? What makes the Holy Spirit come in one place when called, but not another? What if what you thought was the Holy Spirit isn't? If so.. what guarantee God has given in His Word about what name to call upon to be saved.. to be delivered.. to be healed.. and ect.?

2 Corinthians 1:19For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea. 20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. 21Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

Acts 4: 11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

So then there is no other name under the heaven to call upon to be saved, delivered, or healed, otherwise... His name coulod not be above every other name.

MahogonySnail · Jun 21, 2009

Yes He is in us, but both the OT and NT testifies the Spirit can come "upon" or fall or be "poured out" upon a person. c.f. the Prophet Joel and Pentecost.

As far as people tell me, it is a very intense and personal encounter with the Living Lord. What do you expect when people encounter God to still be standing, or flat on their face due to God's power and glory?

Be very careful what you say about the Spirit re: "bully". re: meek and lowly - yet I recall in the book of Acts certain people being killed on the spot for lying to the Holy Spirit. Is your God a pussy cat? The real and living God is not necessarily meek and lowly as you describe.

There is a fake, but that only shows there is a true. Don't paint everyone with the same brush. I've seen people slain in the Spirit in regular church services during worship time. I've been half-slain during the same.

Baruch · Jun 21, 2009

MahogonySnail said:

For the NT, the Holy Spirit will only come at salvation by Jesus Christ and He will dwell in us as promised as a witness of the Good News that we are saved.

They are not falling flat on their faces but on their backs.

Those that were slain were lying to God and to others. Those seeking the Lord will not be bullied when Jesus offered His invitation to come freely only to Himself. It is by Him, we have access to the Father.

The painting of the brush is due to the breaking of the commandment in coming to God the Father through the Son by coming to God the Father after the "spirit" which is a rudiment found already in the world and yet God calls us to stand apart from the world.

Only one name has been given upon men to call upon to be saved, healed, and delivered.. and that name is above every other name: Jesus Christ the Lord. That is why believers are instructed to narrow the way back to the straight gate to avoid false spirits as well as false prophets. Wayward believers should return to our first love or risk being left behind at the rapture event.

MahogonySnail · Jun 21, 2009

That is true but not at the exclusion of the Spirit also working and operating outside of believers, coming upon, falling upon, being poured out etc. It's the same Spirit in the old testament and new. The Holy Spirit can come in a corporate anointing just as He came upon them in tongues of fire at Pentecost.

The manner in which they fall, on their side, on their face, back whatever, is irrelevant.

Access to the Father, by one Spirit (Eph 2:18).

Quote:
There is a fake, but that only shows there is a true. Don't paint everyone with the same brush. I've seen people slain in the Spirit in regular church services during worship time. I've been half-slain during the same.

You seem to have interpreted everything according to your own bad experiences.

What about people being slain in the Spirit at the name of Jesus and calling upon the name of Jesus.

e-Sword86 · Jun 21, 2009

Baruch said:

Although I do not agree with Ernest Angeley calling for the Spirit of God to come to heal you, I would also disagree that the reason for your temporary paralysis was because of "how" he prayed. Remember persecution arises for the word's sake and understanding how the enemy works, is crucial to walking in victory. I've had several encounters such as yours over the years each one extreme in its attack but I know Whom I serve and in Whose name the devil flees. No one prayed for me to be healed or anything for that matter but it has a occurred several times and only while I slept. I understand that persecution arises for the words sake and believe that this is one form of spiritual warfare which occurs in the natural. We will face resistance when walking in obedience to God's word but 1Jn 4:4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

Matthew 7:21-23 States those who live a life of iniquity are those who perish. Casting out demons has nothing to do with this. The point He's trying to make is even if you perform the miraculous, if you live a life of iniquity you will perish! Iniquity is sin and lawlessness, not being involved in the miraculous. Signs and wonders or not, if you live a life of iniquity you will perish. You may have to meditate on this scripture awhile to understand it.

God has called us to live a life of faith, not of fear. When God calls us to do something or when act on His written word, it is by faith that we do this. There are numerous verses where God says fear not, fear not. 2Ti 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. I believe fear is probably the devil's greatest tool to use against believers to keep them from accomplishing the purposes of God. Fear can keep us from doing what God has called us to do. Fear keeps people from experiencing Gods mighty works. Fear keeps people in bondage. Whether someone gets healed or not is not up to me or anyone else. what God requires is that we act on His word, which is to pray for the sick. The results come from Him.

Deliverance is not some kind of passing movement, fad or show. Deliverance is a supernatural act demonstrating the love, mercy and power of God, and should be understood as such. This work is not just for those who are physically ill but for those who are in bondage or waring against any kind of demonic force.

God's word and promises to save, heal and deliver will not change because people are afraid, don't understand, don't study, or misinterpret His word. Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Isa 55:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

MaggieMye · Jun 22, 2009

Holy Spirit is our COUNSELOR...so yes, we CAN go to Him, speak to Him, seek counsel; He being also God, isn't leaving the Father or Jesus out of anything. Jesus SENT HIM TO US, so yes, we can go to Him.
Maggie

MahogonySnail · Jun 22, 2009

It's called sleep paralysis, it's a psychological phenomena and is the result of extreme emotion or excitement. Nothing out of the ordinary there nor may it necessarily be attributed to any sort of spiritual being. It's happened to me sometimes after spending a long time in fervent prayer. It can either happen upon drifting off to sleep, or upon waking, it's happened both times for myself. It is to do with the way the mind stays active whilst the body goes to sleep, and is totally harmless, but scary.

If you were really in sleep paralysis you would not have been able to pray out loud, only with your mind. But, that's what it feels like, it passes by itself like that even if you don't pray.

Yet, if it could be traced to some sort of evil spirit pinning you down (I actually don't think they are capable of this anyway unless they possess a human body , they are spirit), the question to ask yourself is what doors are or were open in your life that allowed that to happen. You assume the problem is with "the others" when it might have been yourself open to demonic attack through unconfessed or unrepented involvement in the occult etc or generational ties etc. Or, God permitted an evil attack to take place to teach you spiritual warfare, just as God led Jesus into the desert to be tempted and face satan.

Exactly, what people don't realise is that the Spirit is the Spirit of Christ and as much God as the Son or the Father. This is probably out of fear of wrong spirits, or fear of spiritual things in general, fear of the reality of God, or fear of offending of blaspheming the Spirit. Yet, the bible says, God doesn't give us a stone when we ask for a fish.

MahogonySnail · Jun 22, 2009

You can read more about sleep paralysis here:

http://www.stanford.edu/~dement/paralysis.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

And it explains the paralysis and the buzzing noises or humming you may have heard.

worldlover · Jun 24, 2009

i believe that all of us have dark side we just have to avoid being on the dark side by embracing GOD with all your heart

pickles · Jun 24, 2009

I ask this question with a hope for comfermation. If you want to pm the answer that is fine. It was revieled to me many years ago that there are several ways in Jesus Christ that one can perform deliverance. Wether from demonic, oppression , or illness. There was an understanding also revieled. Some of which I feel requires an anointing or maturity. I hope to find comfermation that it is biblical and to discuss it with those that would understand. So if you believe that Jesus has called you to, please let me know. thankyou and God bless, pickles

Baruch · Jun 24, 2009

MahogonySnail said:

One hope of your calling is when one is baptized by the Spirit to be called the One Spirit.

Whenh they fell on their faces, it was out of reverant worship of the Lord; not becuase they were taken by surprise.

Not quite, brother. Do not deny the Son when quoting that verse again.

Ephesians 2: 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

And yet to receive Him again is contrary to that truth of the Holy Spirit being One Spirit.

No. I did not know what was going on and thought nothing of it till the Lord warned me ahead of time before being confronted with the "holy laughter" movement that it was not of Him and scriptures was provided by Him in the course of the event for me to discern why it wasn't of Him. Then discerning the rudiment as found in the world, He has enabled me to discern my "bad" experiences and others seen on television and witnesses on the internet what is not of the Lord. No good tree will produce a bad fruit.

I haven't seen that done, but seeing how false prophets will broaden the way, then I can see how that can still be seen as the work of iniquity, being done in His name when one looks for the Spirit to come.. even in His name.. is still eyes off of Jesus according to Him.

MahogonySnail · Jun 25, 2009

Wasn't denying the Son , was correcting your omission of the Spirit in an earlier statement of yours:

Access is by One Spirit, and it is through Him. You weren't quite on the mark there.

MahogonySnail · Jun 25, 2009

No, it is in line with the Spirit being omniscient and the different ways in which the Spirit can act.

Baruch · Jun 25, 2009

e-Sword86 said:

You are not hearing Him.

No. He began warning believers of how false prophest will deceive, by broadening the way. Both times in Matthew 7:13-27 and Luke 13:24-30, He had said "I know ye not whence ye are..." meaning from the direction you came from. That is the work of iniquity.

To avoid that judgment, He re-emphasized heeding His words and His sayings such as John 14:6 and John 10:1

And yet it comes across as such. People applauding and awing and wooing.

Only one name has been given among men to call upon to be saved, healed, and delivered. That name is Jesus Christ.

I agree with that verse if applied rightly. Since the name of Jesus is above every other name, then no other namew including the Holy Spirit's will be up there with His in a movement since the inner dwelling Holy Spirit ALSO seeks to testify and to glorify Jesus.

Baruch · Jun 25, 2009

MaggieMye said:

You cannot "go to" the Holy Spirit if He is in you. There is no "going to".

All invitations points to Jesus. Not one was given for believers to come to the Holy Spirit. Not one. It is by the Son, we have received the Spirit of adoption... and once received, all eyes are still on the Bridegroom.

John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If the Holy Spirit will not speak of himself, but whatever He hears, that He speaks, then your counsel is coming from Jesus.

John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

John 14:26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

The Comforter and the Counselor are two different titles.

Isaiah 9: 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Baruch · Jun 25, 2009

MahogonySnail said:

Being how it has not repeated itself since, I do not believe that was the case. Also, being how it was after meeting with Ernest Angeley, I can understand and appreciate Jesus' warning not to go there.

Do keep in mind that many descriptions of the demonic possessed mirrors symptoms of what medical field diagnosed as a medical disorder of one type or another.. to the physical or to the mental. Who would not say that a grand maltese seizure is not similar to a demonic possession described in the Bible? And yet Jesus delivered those from it.

I find it quite confirming that by praying to Jesus, it was only then I was able to move that I see the connection to those that would call forth the Holy Spirit as not the Holy Spirit AND thus not of the faith.

The Holy Spirit will not speak of himself to take any believer's eyes off of Jesus even for a moment to receive any vainglorying for He is God sent to glorify the Son and that IS what He is leading us to do from within us so that we may worship God the Father through the Son IN spirit and IN truth.

I hereby drop this discussion only because it is vain to edify when He is not causing the increase at all. If you do not hear His Words and keep His sayings, you will not hear mine.

e-Sword86 · Jun 25, 2009

Original quote by Baruch "I hereby drop this discussion only because it is vain to edify when He is not causing the increase at all. If you do not hear His Words and keep His sayings, you will not hear mine".

This is one example as to what happens when someone does not understand how the enemy works and really thinks they're hearing from God. Those of us who have received Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior have received the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us into all truth just as Jesus promised. Yet Baruch seems to think he is the only one who can hear God, at least on this post, and his fear of the Holy Spirit only seems to add to his confusion. But does anyone who truly hear God speak evil of the things God? Or does anyone who truly love God spend all their time trying disprove His good works? Of course not. John 3:21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

This is why Spiritual Warfare is such an important topic to discuss. John 10:10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly. The devil is very crafty at manipulating, distorting and twisting scripture. When a Christian believes that he or she is right about something and everyone else is wrong, they are deceived and don't even know it. When a christian thinks that they are the only ones who can hear God and know one else can, they are deceived and don't even know it. Carlton Pearson thinks he heard God tell him that "Hell is on Earth and everyone goes to heaven" and now preaches this heresy as his "new message". All that he teaches is contrary to God's word.

The bible says in 1Peter 5:8 "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour", and yet many fall prey to his schemes.

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Ephesians 6:10-12

Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:13

Mordred · Dec 16, 2009

Yes - the answer is yes

Can a CHRISTIAN have a DEMON?

Baruch

Guest

MaggieMye

Guest

Baruch

Guest

MahogonySnail

Banned

Baruch

Guest

MahogonySnail

Banned

e-Sword86

Guest

MaggieMye

Guest

MahogonySnail

Banned

MahogonySnail

Banned

worldlover

Guest

pickles

Senior Member

Baruch

Guest

MahogonySnail

Banned

MahogonySnail

Banned

Baruch

Guest

Baruch

Guest

Baruch

Guest

e-Sword86

Guest

Mordred

Guest