Can A Preacher Be Saved, And Yet Preach Heresy?

[HisUnfailingLove]

I can give an example say hypothetically that two individuals both "read the entire Bible" but one individual intentionally preaches without mentioning Jesus whatsoever,that would be blasphemy because the individual knows of Jesus but rejects him and only acknowledges God willfully,where as say the other individual doesn't "understand" Jesus's works and so only preaches on God because it's the only doctrine they can understand,and so are merely yet to accept Jesus.
Willfully leaving out Jesus is far worse than "lacking understanding" and striving to do right for God.

I do understand your point. There's some very sobering warnings throughout the Bible that we must take very seriously. We all need to be very careful that we don't put our own interpretations on the Scriptures so that we don't land ourselves in hot water. Especially those who teach and are in ministry - they carry an even heavier responsibility than those of us lay types who are unqualified. I do agree that those of us who know better and try to teach fallacies and use the Bible to contort and misrepresent the truth, they hold an entirely different category to those of us with little experience and knowledge, with good and sincere intentions, who are trying to do the best they can with what they have. I do believe God in His wisdom looks at the heart. As to whether they are saved or not - only God knows.

Here's some more scripture to consider:

Luke 12:45-48 "But if that slave says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming,’ and begins to beat the slaves, both men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk; the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. “And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more."

Revelation 22:18-19 "I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book."

Deut 4:2-4 "You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. “Your eyes have seen what the LORD has done in the case of Baal-peor, for all the men who followed Baal-peor, the LORD your God has destroyed them from among you. “But you who held fast to the LORD your God are alive today, every one of you."

Proverbs 30:5-6 "Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar."

Some food for thought.

 

[AuntieAnt]

When our eyes are on God and not man, the Holy Spirit will show us our true motives, miraculously change our heart, and conform us into His likeness. In this way we will be set free from the need to judge others, we'll learn to see each other through God's eyes, and experience unity in the body of Christ. The Lord is faithful to do that.

 

[BillG]

You likened yourself as a Christian to a preacher/teacher. I tried to differentiate between yourself and those who get rich on Jesus and used Benny Hinn as an example. I was trying to show you the difference by asking if you got rich on Jesus because it would appear that those such as Benny Hinn do...so in fact I was saying the opposite to what you accuse me of doing.

Can we put this to bed now? I don't think I can explain any better than I have done.

Ok,

I did not think of myself as a preacher or teacher as a job. What I was trying to convey is that as Christians when we tell others what we feel is true then we are teaching.
And I posted the verses that Jesus called us to teach. The great commission. Make disciples.

You asked a question and left it at that, even though I said I did not agree with Benny Hinn.

So what am I to think?

So maybe you should have clarified that in fact you were saying the opposite to the question you asked about me.

It seems that we have not understood each other and what we are trying to convey.

We can put it to bed.
I don't post to bring disharmony and I'm sure you don't either.

That's why I respond and you respond.

That's a good thing.

So yes let's put this to bed, with no upset.
But let the above not stop us responding and chewing the cud.

Are you happy with that?

Your brother in Jesus.

Bill

 

[Chester]

This crossed my mind today and I'm curious what y'all think:

Can a Minister, such as a Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Myers, Mike Murdock, Peter Popoff, Jim Bakker, Robert Tilton, (well, you get the idea) preach heresy and yet actually be saved?

Is it even possible?

Can they be wrong on a few subjects, or must the heresy be abundant and so far out in left field there can be no doubt they are lost?

Can I be a preacher (and not believe in OSAS) and still be saved? (or if I keep on preaching against OSAS will I lose my salvation?) LOL!

 

[Chester]

This crossed my mind today and I'm curious what y'all think:

Can a Minister, such as a Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Myers, Mike Murdock, Peter Popoff, Jim Bakker, Robert Tilton, (well, you get the idea) preach heresy and yet actually be saved?

Is it even possible?

Can they be wrong on a few subjects, or must the heresy be abundant and so far out in left field there can be no doubt they are lost?

Salvation is not based on what you preach, it is based on belief in the heart - and only God can judge that!

Having said that I also say this: man can tell a lot by the fruit that we see.

 

[BillG]

Can I be a preacher (and not believe in OSAS) and still be saved? (or if I keep on preaching against OSAS will I lose my salvation?) LOL!

Double edged sword. Made me laugh.

 

[Amazing-Grace]

Ok,

I did not think of myself as a preacher or teacher as a job. What I was trying to convey is that as Christians when we tell others what we feel is true then we are teaching.
And I posted the verses that Jesus called us to teach. The great commission. Make disciples.

You asked a question and left it at that, even though I said I did not agree with Benny Hinn.

So what am I to think?

So maybe you should have clarified that in fact you were saying the opposite to the question you asked about me.

It seems that we have not understood each other and what we are trying to convey.

We can put it to bed.
I don't post to bring disharmony and I'm sure you don't either.

That's why I respond and you respond.

That's a good thing.

So yes let's put this to bed, with no upset.
But let the above not stop us responding and chewing the cud.

Are you happy with that?

Your brother in Jesus.

Bill

Yes of course, God bless you brother.

 

[BillG]

Yes of course, God bless you brother.

God bless you sister Amazing-Grace.

 

[BillG]

Hey talking to Amazing-Grace and thinking about amazing grace I'm gonna post a link.

If does my heart good.

Andre Rieu. Amazing Grace with my beloved bagpipes (the Scottish in me)

I can only post the link on my I Pad

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-GD-5mRyaJw[/video]

 

[seed_time_harvest]

This crossed my mind today and I'm curious what y'all think:

Can a Minister, such as a Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Myers, Mike Murdock, Peter Popoff, Jim Bakker, Robert Tilton, (well, you get the idea) preach heresy and yet actually be saved?

Is it even possible?

Can they be wrong on a few subjects, or must the heresy be abundant and so far out in left field there can be no doubt they are lost?

If they are preaching It and know that It's wrong then I would say no they can't be saved for we are HIS workmanship created In CHRIST unto good works but If they are teaching heresy but they don't know that they are teaching heresy then GOD looks at their heart and the bible says that sin Is not Imputed when there Is no law.

 

[mailmandan]

Can I be a preacher (and not believe in OSAS) and still be saved? (or if I keep on preaching against OSAS will I lose my salvation?) LOL!

There are those in the OSAS camp who may believe that just because they went forward at church and answered an altar call 20 years ago and recited the sinner's prayer (even though there was no repentance and faith) that they are saved (simply because they recited that prayer) and now they are continuously living like the devil (practicing sin), but it's all good, they are saved regardless. Such people are deceived, just as there are those in the NOSAS camp who believe that salvation is "obtained" and "maintained" by works and they are working really hard to hold on to what they have not yet received. Such people are deceived as well.

There are genuine born again believers who believe OSAS and others who believe NOSAS. Genuine born again believers who believe OSAS do not view grace as a license to sin and genuine born again believers who believe it's possible down the road to turn their back on the Lord and remain that way and lose faith and salvation don't see it as maintaining their salvation by works, but using their free will to change their mind and reject the Lord. In the latter cases, I don't view either side as heretical. I hold to OSAS, yet I have friends who believe NOSAS, but believe only a small percentage of genuine born again Christians would end up losing their salvation.

I once heard someone in the NOSAS camp say that continuing in faith/abiding in Christ etc.. is an extremely, difficult burden that most genuine born again Christians will surely fail to do and even suggested that up to 95% of genuine born again Christians will end up losing their salvation before it's all over with. I strongly disagree with that!

That same person likened remaining saved to someone walking across a tight rope in which suddenly and at any moment can fall off. Those in the NOSAS camp who don't hold to that extreme view seem to liken remaining saved to someone walking down a road with a high wall on both sides. The person would say, "they are secure, but are still free to choose to climb over the wall to the other side."

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

AG was asking a question not meant to be answered.
She talked about preachers making lots of money off God.

So when you said you had a lot of money, her reply was saying: okay, that's fine, but have you made that money off preaching? No? Then, of course I was nt talking about you.

That was what she intended, I think.

Who needs a 30 million dollar house?? Its so excessive as to be obscene that a preacher has a 30 million dollar house! He deserves to be paid well. No person believes that to be well paid means a 30 million dollar home! Neither should you expect your preacher to live in a falling down dump.

Wherever the dead body is, there the vultures gather to feed off the dead body.

 

[Amazing-Grace]

Hey talking to Amazing-Grace and thinking about amazing grace I'm gonna post a link.

If does my heart good.

Andre Rieu. Amazing Grace with my beloved bagpipes (the Scottish in me)

I can only post the link on my I Pad

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-GD-5mRyaJw[/video]

When we were in Scotland (fort William) a couple of years ago we happened upon a young boy in full costume playing Amazing Grace on bagpipes, it made me smile.

 

[Nehemiah6]

That's the rub. How far is too far? At what point does human error slip into heresy?

The most critical issue is the true and full Gospel, which includes the deity of Christ, the trinity of God, and salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ and His finished work alone. And that would include repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. These truths cannot be upheld without upholding the Divine inspiration and authority of the Word of God, including the fact that it is inerrant and infallible. Once a preacher attacks any of these fundamentals, he disqualifies himself and will come under God's judgment.

GALATIANS 1 (KJB)

6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Depleted]

This crossed my mind today and I'm curious what y'all think:

Can a Minister, such as a Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Myers, Mike Murdock, Peter Popoff, Jim Bakker, Robert Tilton, (well, you get the idea) preach heresy and yet actually be saved?

Is it even possible?

Can they be wrong on a few subjects, or must the heresy be abundant and so far out in left field there can be no doubt they are lost?

I really don't keep up on the list of New Age/WoF preachers, so can't speak about all those names, but for the ones I do recognize? They are neither saved nor preach. They incite with lots of gobbledygook.

 

[Zmouth]

So do you think those with Paul heard the audible voice or not? I haven't heard a preacher teach on why Paul wrote that those with him heard the voice speak yet saw no man but later wrote that those with him did not hear him who spoke to him.

 

[Depleted]

That would be between them and God.

Disagreeing with you here on the grounds of 1 Cor. 5:12-13
For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

 

[Depleted]

Everyone interprets the Bible in their own way. Does that make them Heretics? Would you be saved or me based on what we believe the Bible is telling us - or both of us based on our belief that Jesus gave Himself for us and the way we try to walk by that faith? I guess it's all about the heart.

Preachers aren't "everyone." It's a calling. An office. So, nope. If you don't know what God's "interpretation" is, you shouldn't be a preacher.

This isn't something as minor as old earth/young earth. This isn't something like predestination vs. free will. This isn't something like eschatology. This is about who is sovereign, Man or God. And considering they're teaching that if you act just the right way, (and send them money), God owes you riches and health. This isn't some minor detail. This is heresy. This is a different god, unrelated to the Bible all together. And, quite often, it's also swindling people.

 

[gotime]

This crossed my mind today and I'm curious what y'all think:

Can a Minister, such as a Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Myers, Mike Murdock, Peter Popoff, Jim Bakker, Robert Tilton, (well, you get the idea) preach heresy and yet actually be saved?

Is it even possible?

Can they be wrong on a few subjects, or must the heresy be abundant and so far out in left field there can be no doubt they are lost?

If being 100% right is needed for salvation then that is cause for fear.

Don't get me wrong, we should all strive to know the truth as it is in Christ.

We need to be humble though because the person we think is wrong is the person who thinks we are wrong. Is truth measured subjectively or objectively.

It should be objectively by the word of God. Yet both who disagree both think they are using the word truthfully.

This is cause for us all to be humble and seek truth all the days of our life. Never becoming proud thinking we have arrived.

As for us and anyone else it is between us and God in the end.

 

[MattforJesus]

This crossed my mind today and I'm curious what y'all think:

Can a Minister, such as a Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Myers, Mike Murdock, Peter Popoff, Jim Bakker, Robert Tilton, (well, you get the idea) preach heresy and yet actually be saved?

Is it even possible?

Can they be wrong on a few subjects, or must the heresy be abundant and so far out in left field there can be no doubt they are lost?

If their heresy causes people to abide in something,or believe in something,that hinders them being saved then they would not be saved.

There is one God,and He said thou shall have no other gods before Me,so that would be a given.

Jesus is Lord and Savior,and God manifest in the flesh,so that is a given.

The death,burial,and resurrection of Jesus,and His blood washes away our sins,so that is a given.

Allow the Spirit to lead you to be Christlike and not like the world,so that is a given.

Charity,love in action,is greater than faith,and faith works by love,and love is the fulfilling of the law,so that is a given.

And any doctrine that is not true that would cause a person to stumble at the truth.

We debate about the resurrection,but if it does not happen at the time that is the most popular viewpoint then it will overthrow the faith of many,so they better not make a faulty interpretation there.

But many will say they are not heretics and preach enough of the truth,but I will point out one thing that they all appear to have in common where they err and are not right with God.

They lack love by the heaping of money,and material things,to themselves for their wants,and neglecting the poor to live a lifestyle that God does not approve.

Love works no ill towards their neighbor,therefore love is the fulfilling of the law,which helping people with their needs is part of that love,and the early Church sold all their things that were not a necessity,and distributed to the poor as each saint had need,and the saints appear poor to the world,but possess all things to be given to them in due time.

Charity,love in action,is greater than faith,and faith works by love,and if anybody lacks in love then faith does not count in their life to be saved.

Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains,but if he did not have charity then he is nothing,and said if any person preaches that God blesses with money,and material things for their wants,lusts,withdraw yourself from them,having food and clothing be content,for the love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy which is what it is all about,and they have erred from the faith.

James said if they do not have works can faith save them,and then points out caring about the poor and needy,which if they have the means to help them and do not then their faith is dead because they do not show love,and love is greater than faith.

John said if they do not have charity then the love of God does not dwell in them,so do not love in word only but in deed and in truth.

God said some people pray amiss because they pray for their wants to heap it unto their lusts.

And we see this big time in America as many care about money,and material things,and many thinking God is blessing them with their wants,but then that is not love,then there is no faith because they do not love people.

That is the big heresy of these big time preachers,and when they get that big they all seem to fit the same mold of loving money,and material things,and going by their wants,which then they lack love,then they lack faith,and Paul said withdraw yourself from them.

If they fit that mold then they would not be saved for love is greater than faith,and everything stems from love where the world will fail at true love,which it is our love that causes us to have access to heaven for love people is the fulfilling of the law which you can only do by the Spirit,and if you are led by the Spirit you are right with God.

So I will say they are heretics after that manner,and is anyone different when they get that big for it appears like they like the attention that goes along with it,and to prosper like the world and show off,look what I got,and enjoying what they enjoy which should not be.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money,material): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.