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Adam and Eve were not 'perfect' they were totally free from sin and learning. We do not know what Satan's state was. But in all the Scriptures that refer to the future life there is not one single suggestion of future failure. I will trust the Scriptures and the Saviour rather than the speculation of men
Our eternal Father knows the end from the beginning. He chose us in Him before the world began. Don't you think that includes the eternal future?
Jesus did NOT say
This is the Father's will Who sent Me that of all whom He has given Me I should lose
NOTHING but raise them up on the Last Day AND AFTER THAT THEY ARE ON THEIR OWN.
Jesus did NOT say
This is the Father's will Who sent Me that of all whom He has given Me I should lose
NOTHING but raise them up on the Last Day AND AFTER THAT THEY ARE ON THEIR OWN.
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M
The savior never fails but we do. What you then say is that when I was eight and accepted Christ that was it. I was in heaven. So all the backsliding I did over the years didn't matter and if I die while in a backslidden state I can still go to heaven. That makes no sense. I always like to go for the worst case so here goes. If I accept Christ at eight and become a mass murderer at twelve the age of accountabity and continued my killing till Fifty where I died in a shoot out with the cops ( which by the way if there's any cops out there thank you for your work) do I go to heaven or hell?
People who ask silly questions, deserve silly answers. But I will be grown up.
If a person truly, knowing what he is doing, commits his life to Jesus Christ for Him to save him, yes his salvation is secure for eternity. He can say 'I have been saved once for all' (Titus 3.4-7). Your problem is that you think you must save yourself with a bit of help from God. It is CHRIST Who is the Saviour, NOT US. If such a person was not finally saved it would mean that The Saviour had failed in His job.
I would never say that your backsliding did not matter. But everyone backslides to some extent. That is why we need a Saviour Who saves. He says of those who go astray, 'I will seek them until I find them' (Luke 15.4). He will never let those who are truly His sheep perish or be destroyed (John 10.27-28).
Your final scenario is just ridiculous. Someone whom Christ has truly saved would not behave like that unless it was because his brain had been so badly affected that he did not know what he was doing. Do you think God would punish someone who went astray because they were insane and unable to control their own actions and behaviour? He would look at them in terms of what they were when they were of right mind. And His saving work would not have failed.
Your problem is that you overlook the POWER and LOVE of the Saviour. We are not masters of our own destiny. GOD is master of our destiny.
If a person truly, knowing what he is doing, commits his life to Jesus Christ for Him to save him, yes his salvation is secure for eternity. He can say 'I have been saved once for all' (Titus 3.4-7). Your problem is that you think you must save yourself with a bit of help from God. It is CHRIST Who is the Saviour, NOT US. If such a person was not finally saved it would mean that The Saviour had failed in His job.
I would never say that your backsliding did not matter. But everyone backslides to some extent. That is why we need a Saviour Who saves. He says of those who go astray, 'I will seek them until I find them' (Luke 15.4). He will never let those who are truly His sheep perish or be destroyed (John 10.27-28).
Your final scenario is just ridiculous. Someone whom Christ has truly saved would not behave like that unless it was because his brain had been so badly affected that he did not know what he was doing. Do you think God would punish someone who went astray because they were insane and unable to control their own actions and behaviour? He would look at them in terms of what they were when they were of right mind. And His saving work would not have failed.
Your problem is that you overlook the POWER and LOVE of the Saviour. We are not masters of our own destiny. GOD is master of our destiny.
I think you are right. There is a real sense of walking with Jesus is about our hearts and wanting to follow him. The point about being made brothers, or equal with the Lord in the sense of friends, who have fellowship is we can screw up, get it wrong, but we know how to deal with such issues.
When Jesus talked about the unforgivable sin he implied it will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come implying sin does occur but it is also forgiven.
This implies something more fundemental about what salvation actually is and is not. It is a question of the heart and at what point you compromise, not about legalism or trying to be a good person, as if by behaving in a particular way you justify yourself.
When Jesus talked about the unforgivable sin he implied it will not be forgiven in this age or the age to come implying sin does occur but it is also forgiven.
This implies something more fundemental about what salvation actually is and is not. It is a question of the heart and at what point you compromise, not about legalism or trying to be a good person, as if by behaving in a particular way you justify yourself.
B
Adam and his wife were created in the image of God, male and female from the dust of the earth. That was the flesh they were clothed with. They were instructed by God in the cool of the day and were never aware of their nakedness. They had no shame but being instructed they had the potential to stray through the weakness of their flesh and the soul they had been given through the breath of God. This was demonstrated in the fall when they had given place to the fruit of that tree. From that point they were aware of their nakedness and hid themselves. Their God-conscious soul turned inward and they became self-conscious through the knowledge of good and evil. Lucifer did the same when iniquity was found in him, but did so as part of the angelic host and as an anointed cherub that covered (overshadowed and protected). His cover was blown and stripped from him (the stones of Ez 28) by his own thoughts of iniquity and he purposed in himself to get justice and do the same to Adam through the woman. When he outwardly succeeded in this endeavor God had to come and coat their nakedness with the skins of a red blooded animal.
Lucifer fell from heaven into the lower atmosphere and became the prince and power of the air, the god of this world system and introduced the mystery of iniquity that is presently at work in this evil world. He has been deceiving and blinding the minds of man kind ever since. He has been a thief, robber and murderer from the beginning with no truth in him. He does not possess the righteousness of God's light within but is an angel of light who ministers his own form of righteousness. He has had all qualifications and coverings removed from him that would allow him to be an active participant of the heavenly host at the throne and mountain of God. He sold out his angelic right for a mess of corrupted wisdom of his own accord. There is no blood redemption for him or for those he persuaded to follow him and his iniquitous ways in heaven, and on earth. A special place has been created for him and those angels that fell in line with him and for those whose names are not written in the book of life.
Sinful man who believes upon the Son has eternal life that no man can take from him. He can fall, but will not be utterly cast down. His eternal destiny is to be present with the Lord in heaven. He will receive life and immortality and put on incorruption, where there will be no decay. His old sin nature will be completely eradicated and he will experience complete redemption. He will be glorified within and without and will be like the Son of God. This glory is the measure of the joy of the Lord which is full and unspeakable having received the complete salvation of the soul. Because of this complete redemption given, there will be no possibility of it being forfeited, stripped or returned to the one who gave it. It is our eternal redemption that was obtained for us by Christ and it draws nigh, even as we speak of it. When we see him we shall be like him in a twinkling of an eye.
Lucifer fell from heaven into the lower atmosphere and became the prince and power of the air, the god of this world system and introduced the mystery of iniquity that is presently at work in this evil world. He has been deceiving and blinding the minds of man kind ever since. He has been a thief, robber and murderer from the beginning with no truth in him. He does not possess the righteousness of God's light within but is an angel of light who ministers his own form of righteousness. He has had all qualifications and coverings removed from him that would allow him to be an active participant of the heavenly host at the throne and mountain of God. He sold out his angelic right for a mess of corrupted wisdom of his own accord. There is no blood redemption for him or for those he persuaded to follow him and his iniquitous ways in heaven, and on earth. A special place has been created for him and those angels that fell in line with him and for those whose names are not written in the book of life.
Sinful man who believes upon the Son has eternal life that no man can take from him. He can fall, but will not be utterly cast down. His eternal destiny is to be present with the Lord in heaven. He will receive life and immortality and put on incorruption, where there will be no decay. His old sin nature will be completely eradicated and he will experience complete redemption. He will be glorified within and without and will be like the Son of God. This glory is the measure of the joy of the Lord which is full and unspeakable having received the complete salvation of the soul. Because of this complete redemption given, there will be no possibility of it being forfeited, stripped or returned to the one who gave it. It is our eternal redemption that was obtained for us by Christ and it draws nigh, even as we speak of it. When we see him we shall be like him in a twinkling of an eye.
1 John 3:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Read the rest of it. Like Jesus didn't sin while mortal, neither should we while mortal, and certainly won't be able to sin once raised incorruptible. Each of us will be like Jesus, like the Holy Spirit, like the Father, incapable of turning against one another. Otherwise it wouldn't be true "we shall be like him".
If we spend this life choosing sin, acting out a role as child of the Devil, we are not like Jesus now, nor will be. For that reason, if you have the hope of in fact being a son of God, then be about purifying yourself. Jesus taught that, and that theme is central throughout the whole Bible.
Once like Jesus you won't give reason to be kicked out of heaven.
Titus 2:11-14 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
Be quick to repent. We've been cleansed by the blood of Christ. Must you require more blood washing? Heaven forbid. Stay washed by the water of his word.
Live right, not giving place to a thought of sinning in heaven. Practice being a purified citizen of heaven.
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Nice; and 100% pertinent to the OP too.
Eternal life is often mistaken for immortality. The two are not one and the
same. Immortality defines the nature of a superhuman body impervious to
death and putrefaction; and seeing as how Christ's believing followers die
every day around clock, then it's obvious that they don't have immortality
yet; and according to Rom 8:23-25 and 1Cor 15:35-58 his believing
followers won't have immortality till some time in the future.
Eternal life, on the other hand, is neither physical nor visible; it defines the
personal nature of God-- the divine spirit being who never sins, who cannot
sin, and who cannot be tempted to sin.
†. 2Pet 1:4 . . He has given us His very great and precious promises, so that
through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the
corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
One of Webster's definitions of nature is: the inherent character or basic
constitution of a person or thing.
The basic constitution of human life is human nature. The basic constitution
of eternal life is divine nature. If somebody can understand what human
nature is; then they can understand what divine nature is. The one is
inherent within humans, the other inherent within God.
The eternal life that Christ spoke of in John 3:14-16 is simply another way of
saying divine life. I mean: who but God is eternal, and who but God is
divine? So: eternal life is associated with divine nature just as human life is
associated with human nature.
Back in 1968, when I was a young single guy living alone in a one-room
budget rental; it occurred to me that it would sure be a whole lot easier to
please God if I was like Him instead of like me. Well; imagine the
amazement that washed over me upon discovering that my thoughts were
on the right track.
†. 2Pet 1:4 . . He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises,
in order that by them you might become partakers of the divine nature.
I'm going to substitute some wording in the passages below. Watch for it.
†. John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has the divine nature.
†. John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who heed my message, and trust in God
who sent me, have the divine nature. They will never be condemned for
their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
†. John 6:47 . .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has the divine
nature.
†. John 10:27-28 . . My sheep recognize my voice; I know them, and they
follow me. I give them the divine nature, and they will never perish.
†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is the divine
nature through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Those word changes are valid synonyms because the divine nature, and
eternal life, are both talking about the very same thing.
Bottom line: Eternal life is why nobody will ever be kicked out of heaven.
With eternal life they will never lie again (Titus 1:2) never be tempted to sin
again (Jas 1:13) and never be able to sin again (1John 3:9). In other words:
if it were possible to evict people with eternal life, then it would be possible
to evict God because He and they are no different in their inherent character
and their basic constitution.
=======================================
Nice; and 100% pertinent to the OP too.
Eternal life is often mistaken for immortality. The two are not one and the
same. Immortality defines the nature of a superhuman body impervious to
death and putrefaction; and seeing as how Christ's believing followers die
every day around clock, then it's obvious that they don't have immortality
yet; and according to Rom 8:23-25 and 1Cor 15:35-58 his believing
followers won't have immortality till some time in the future.
Eternal life, on the other hand, is neither physical nor visible; it defines the
personal nature of God-- the divine spirit being who never sins, who cannot
sin, and who cannot be tempted to sin.
†. 2Pet 1:4 . . He has given us His very great and precious promises, so that
through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the
corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
One of Webster's definitions of nature is: the inherent character or basic
constitution of a person or thing.
The basic constitution of human life is human nature. The basic constitution
of eternal life is divine nature. If somebody can understand what human
nature is; then they can understand what divine nature is. The one is
inherent within humans, the other inherent within God.
The eternal life that Christ spoke of in John 3:14-16 is simply another way of
saying divine life. I mean: who but God is eternal, and who but God is
divine? So: eternal life is associated with divine nature just as human life is
associated with human nature.
Back in 1968, when I was a young single guy living alone in a one-room
budget rental; it occurred to me that it would sure be a whole lot easier to
please God if I was like Him instead of like me. Well; imagine the
amazement that washed over me upon discovering that my thoughts were
on the right track.
†. 2Pet 1:4 . . He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises,
in order that by them you might become partakers of the divine nature.
I'm going to substitute some wording in the passages below. Watch for it.
†. John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has the divine nature.
†. John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who heed my message, and trust in God
who sent me, have the divine nature. They will never be condemned for
their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
†. John 6:47 . .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has the divine
nature.
†. John 10:27-28 . . My sheep recognize my voice; I know them, and they
follow me. I give them the divine nature, and they will never perish.
†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is the divine
nature through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Those word changes are valid synonyms because the divine nature, and
eternal life, are both talking about the very same thing.
Bottom line: Eternal life is why nobody will ever be kicked out of heaven.
With eternal life they will never lie again (Titus 1:2) never be tempted to sin
again (Jas 1:13) and never be able to sin again (1John 3:9). In other words:
if it were possible to evict people with eternal life, then it would be possible
to evict God because He and they are no different in their inherent character
and their basic constitution.
=======================================