Catholic Heresy (for the record)

Jeff_56 · Feb 18, 2015

1000 proofs that the pope is antichrist - Google Search
^^^^ link to simple internet search ^^^^ or just search >>
(1000 proofs that the pope is antichrist)

how can someone serve the antichrist and try to pretend jesus is their lord or savior ?

1) they're decieved, and thus lying, and believe the lie.

2) see #1

has anyone who was serving the antichrist ever been saved ?

certainly. a few. by sheer grace.

will they (any others who are serving the antichrist) be (saved) ?

yes, if God permits.

can't they stay in the heresy and also be saved ? no. at least they won't defend the heresy any more if they are saved,
and the heresy will kick them out if they do get saved. they usually don't want to pay that price(of getting kicked out)., so they usually don't get saved.

AgeofKnowledge · Feb 18, 2015

I'm sensing a strong measure of hostility emanating from someone in this thread and it's not ThomistColin. Can you guess who it is?

A. A purple unicorn
B. Ronald McDonald
C. The Hamburgler
B. Jeff_56

Please circle only one answer.

mikeuk · Feb 18, 2015

AgeofKnowledge said:

2 of them B? Are you equating Jeff with Ronald Mcdonald?

Which one of them would object more , I wonder!

mikeuk · Feb 18, 2015

Utah said:

Every day! We are christians, or at least - I try to be!

By the way I have been thinking about what you said about the hospice.

You can say to those catholics that as 1 John 5:13 - that "they can know (our interpretation have confidence) they have eternal salvation", to reasassure them, they are saved by grace.

Catholics believe it too, but we use the word "know" in its linguistic meaning that is know in the same sense that you "know you will pass your driving test", a high level of confidence, but not a metaphysical certainty. In the end we are saved by grace, and it is God who decides!

The problem with that verse, is that the evangelicals (I used to be one) rarely quote the verses after it, which put it into to context. "16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death."

It clearly defines two categories of sin, those that do and do not lead to death - to a catholic that is mortal and venial sin.
And it is in the context of mortal sin, the sacrament of reconciliation is considered important! But in the end we are saved by grace and god decides.

notuptome · Feb 18, 2015

mikeuk said:

I have exercised great restraint in my exchanges with you. You constantly misrepresent everything that is said. You come across as reeking with arrogance and snobbery. You appear to be above reproof and beyond correction.

Simply another unfounded accusation. You say it isn't so and everyone is expected to receive that as right from the mouth of the ..... demonstrate from the bible not a catechism if you can. I doubt you have any biblical basis for your wild accusations.

You continue to accuse but you cannot back it up with biblical evidence. What am I to say? Is it a flame to say you do not believe in salvation by grace according to the bible? Salvation does not come from infant baptism, confirmation and first communion. Is it a flame to say that grace is not administered through sacraments?

If you do not answer it is because you cannot without exposing yourself as less than truthful.

John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light neither cometh to the light lest his deeds should be reproved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

KenAllan · Feb 18, 2015

A sin is a sin and there is no difference in sins. There are no mortal sins and venial sins. Did you know that telling a lie is the worst sin you can commit?

Proverbs 6:16-19
[SUP]16 [/SUP] These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.

The Lord HATES a lying tongue and a liar is an abomination to Him!

The sin that leads to death is the sin of lying.

Acts 5:1-5
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles' feet.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself?
[SUP]4 [/SUP] While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Then Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things.

The sin of death is the sin of lying.

Therefore all those who lie are in danger of Hell Fire for lying.

notuptome · Feb 18, 2015

mikeuk said:

Sorry unbiblical answer. There are no differences in sin. Mortal and venial sin is a construct of the RCC to foster a system of works to atone for sin. The blood of Christ is wholly sufficient to atone for all sins. The sin of false witness is no greater than the sin of murder. James 2:10

God is not capricious in His decisions to save or condemn. Those who trust in Jesus Christ are saved. Those who trust in themselves are lost. John 11:25

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Jeff_56 · Feb 18, 2015

VERY GOOD! JESUS is hostile - called the sons of the devil sons of the devil and told them where they'd go too.

now who agrees with JESUS against the antichrist rcc heresy? and who doesn't ? circle all that apply...

AgeofKnowledge said:

notuptome · Feb 18, 2015

ThomistColin said:

I obviously have been misquoted in the post you are quoting.

Jesus is the Christ. Jesus is the Lamb of God sent to atone for the sins of the world. Jesus becomes King and Lord to those who trust in Him alone to save them from their sins. Until one is born again Jesus is not Lord and King to them.

It would be better for your soul if you should repent of your quest to be a RCC priest.

Born again Christians are priests by their birthright. 1 Peter 2:9

For the cause of Christ
Roger

mikeuk · Feb 18, 2015

KenAllan said:

I quoted the scripture to you. 1 John 5:16, clearly distinguishes between sin that kills and sin that does not.
That is the meaning of the word mortal! So like it or not it is clearly underpinned by a scripture.
To believe otherwise you have to have a different interpretation of that scripture and others.

So instead of that useless ranting, perhaps you might give me YOUR interpretation of those same verses since this is a "bible discussion" forum?

I have cut off roger from further discussion because
(a) He refuses to give alternative interpretrations of scripture despite many requests,him preferring only to dismiss the RCC version and
(b) Prefers ranting and adhominems to serious discussion.
You follow the same pattern. One more accusation of lying, or other uncivil behaviour and I will no longer respond to you either.

So to continue the conversation in a civil way explain what you think 1 john 5-16 means?

Spare me the standard evangelical B/S - I know the arguments, I was there fore a time! I also know what is wrong with the arguments and how superficial most of them are.
.

notuptome · Feb 18, 2015

mikeuk said:

Please allow me to express my thanks. A man is known by his friends but he is distinguished by his enemies.

I can hardly wait to see how you address this passage. Well actually you won't but it still should be interesting.

Biblically speaking a sin that is not unto death is a sin that does not result in physical death. John 11:4 Jesus speaks of a sickness that is not unto death but that the Son of God might be glorified.

1 Corinthians 5 Paul speaks of turning one over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh because of his sin.

1 John5:18 is very interesting in that John says that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself and that wicked one toucheth him not.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

KenAllan · Feb 18, 2015

Proverbs 6:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP] These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:

Proverbs 6:19
[SUP]19 [/SUP] A false witness who speaks lies

You want a Mortal sin, then here is one. A false witness who speaks lies commits a Mortal sin. Therefore all those who say Mary was sinless is a false witness and they have committed a Mortal sin and God Hates their sin and that sin is an abomination to Him.

Romans 3:9-12
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are ALL under sin.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is NONE righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is None who understands; There is NONE who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is NONE who does good, no, not one."

Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

All means everybody, even Mary. None means no one at all and includes Mary also.

Hebrews 4:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Only Jesus Christ was without sin. Everyone else was and is a sinner even Mary. The Holy Spirit clearly says everybody but Jesus Christ is a sinner. Therefore to say Mary was sinless is a Mortal sin and an abomination to God.

There is a very good chance that those who teach Mary is sinless do not have Salvation and will never enter into Heaven.

So Mileuk, why are you tossing away your chance to enter into Heaven by teaching lies from the Catholic Church? Would it be better to listen to the Holy Spirit and enter into Heaven? It does not matter what you say or think because the Holy Spirit says ALL have sinned and NONE are righteous and only Jesus Christ was without sin.

kennethcadwell · Feb 18, 2015

The context in 1 John 5:16 can only be found by using the whole chapter, as the verses previous to it state what is being mentioned. Sins that do not lead to death are those that have been petitioned ( confessed/repented) in prayer for forgiveness of, and those that lead to death are those that have not been confessed or repented of. The purpose of asking Him to keep them strong in their walk turning away from their ways and toward righteousness unto eternal life.

starman97015 · Feb 18, 2015

I wanted to mention that I believe that dialogue with those of other faith backgrounds should be encouraged. I am not saying that those who promote heresy ought to be encouraged, but a healthy dialogue is a good thing. We should not attempt to squash or delete the posts of Catholics, but engage them in loving discussion about the truth.

didymos · Feb 18, 2015

starman97015 said:

We can't delete them in anyway, so we might as well etc...

mikeuk · Feb 19, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

But that is not what the words say. The passage clearly refers to some sin which is mortal, others that are not, and notes that only in the latter case are the prayers of a brother useful,it says prayer is not useful in the case of some sins deemed mortal so "i do not say that one is to pray" etc in that case.

And there is the problem:

If all sins are equal and the outcome is mortal as you say, only if "not confessed/ repented", then why say that prayer is not useful for some? If it is yet to be determined either way by contrition yet to be peformed, then either prayer is useful for all or not useful for any sin, not just some sins deemed "not mortal" as the verse clearly indicates. So the logical interpretation is there are two different kinds of sin.

Believe what you will. I am simply explaining a plausibility argument for why I believe what I do.

It was a question for Ken in my conversation with him, who must have held the distinction on sin as a former catholic at some point.

Jeff_56 · Feb 19, 2015

starman97015 said:

that is what the heresy likes also - that gives them a way to bypass the rule against promoting their heresy.

the bible, the creator's word, says something different. you don't believe it, and no one can make anyone else believe it,
but the bible says that when a heretic refuses to repent after one or two warnings, to have nothing more to do with it. don't talk with them, don't have a meal with them, no dialogue because that involves sin because it's disobedient to yahweh's word.

this is completely different (Yahweh's instructions what to do with heretics who won't repent)
from Yahweh's instructions what to do with 'the world' who hasn't repented yet ---
He says we have to be involved with 'the world' even if they don't repent, or we could not carry on our daily commerse/lives/etc....

only those who call themselves believers, and won't repent - they are the ones the bible says plainly to disfellowship and not to even greet if you meet one in the marketplace (or online).

but that's the bible and yahweh's instructions to his people only, that's not the world's way.

KenAllan · Feb 19, 2015

The problem with making some sins venial allows the Catholics to keep on sinning if they believe these sins will not keep them out of Heaven. An example would be lying. Most Catholics believe that a little white lie is not that bad of a sin and they can continue to lie without any consequences of this sin.

Proverbs 6:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP] These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood,

God clearly says we are not to continue in the practice of sinning. We are not to willingly sin.

Galatians 5:16-21
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you just as I have forewarned you that those who practice such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

If we practice sinning because we believe the sin is a venial sin we run the risk that we will not enter into Heaven.

mikeuk · Feb 19, 2015

KenAllan said:

Well some may believe that Ken, that is not the catholicism that is there in the catechism, nor the one we are supposed to practice!! The autobiographies of saints and religious show how scrupulous they are, and we all aspire to be saints.
I do not think you should define a denomination by those who do not act out their vocation!

But you have not answered my question, which is why then does the scripture clearly distinguish the two - my comment to another..

"But that is not what the words say. The passage in 1 john 5:16 clearly refers to some sin which is mortal, others that are not, and notes that only in the latter case are the prayers of a brother useful,it says prayer is not useful in the case of some sins deemed mortal so "i do not say that one is to pray" etc in that case.

And there is the problem:

If all sins are equal and the outcome is mortal as you say, only if "not confessed/ repented", then why say that prayer is not useful for some? If it is yet to be determined either way by contrition yet to be peformed, then either prayer is useful for all or not useful for any sin, not just some sins deemed "not mortal" as the verse clearly indicates. So the logical interpretation is there are two different kinds of sin.
"

Scripture asserts it is true then in 1 john 5:16 , and as you know catholicism puts emphasis on the sacrament in respect of mortal sin, but expects examination of conscience, private acts of contrition and penance and indeed before every mass is the "confiteor" - "I confess"... Since we are told that we should only take the eucharist with a clean conscience else you "eat and drink judgement" as Paul said.

Believe what you will. I am simply explaining a plausibility argument for why I believe what I and RCC does, and also that it is scriptural in origin as is the sacrament of confession "those sins you would forgive"

notuptome · Feb 19, 2015

mikeuk said:

In other words setting aside the forgiveness of sin by grace and making it forgiveness by works or in RCC terms sacraments.

This is why there is blind allegiance to the catechisms and not the word of God. The RCC must have or create authority to act in place of God that it can lord itself over the people. The RCC needs to usurp the authority to bind and remit sins to manipulate the people. The time is coming when they will not endure sound doctrine but will heap to themselves teachers having itching ears.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

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