Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[ThomistColin]

Wikipedia ascribes to the Bauer-Ehrman hypthesis with respect to early Christianity which has been soundly refuted and so are making historically false assertions such as most early Christians ascribed to heresy. It's not true.

Orthodox Christianity was organized early (in the AD 40s and 50s) with a core belief system that an ecclesiastical organization subsequently built on. The church's foundational organizing principles and orthodox epistemology were already in place in the first century.

Prior to Constantine's Edict of Milan (AD 313) that mandated religious toleration throughout the Roman Empire, adherents of orthodoxy had no official means or power to relegate heretics to a marginal role yet with respect to the Arian controversy of 318 AD there is no significant mention of any Gnostic sect during this controversy for prior to Constantine's mandate, the orthodox were able decisively to refute these heretical movements. The heretics were nowhere near as numerous and pervasive as Bauer-Ehrman, Wikipedia, liberal postmodern revisionist authors, etc... contend.

Without an official governing body in place, the only way that the orthodox could have "won" prior to Constantine was through the force of sheer numbers which was, in fact, the case. And it's a good thing too because if heretics actually had been the majority, orthodoxy would have been overturned. But they weren't and it wasn't. It's not so amazing when you understand history as it was rather than as modern and post modern liberal revisionists misrepresent it to be.

Read 'The Heresy of Orthodoxy' by Dr. Andreas J. Köstenberger and Dr. Michael J. Kruger as a suggested starting point:

The Arian Heresy is not based on Bart Ehrman's theory. But on the primary sources of the time, when the Roman Emperors has Trinitarian Bishops killed and laymen were tortured for opposing the Arians.

Now, I stated that there are scholars who put it at 70-80%, but if they are wrong they are not off that it was a majority. Even the Coptics teach about this period, because it was during this period their church officially severed ties with the Roman government, though not the hierarchy of the Church, that started in the 600s and became an official split during the 700s due to being cut off suddenly from the Christian world.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

The Arians separated into two factions: Arian and Semi-Arian. When Constantius became emperor he did force Arianism on the empire but due to the factional Arian infighting, Julian recalled all Bishops and Theodosius required all subjects to confess the orthodox belief which reaffirmed the Nicene creed with an orthodox clause on the Holy Spirit added followed by forcible suppression of all Arian worship in the empire.

Yes, I see what you're stating now. While Arian heresy did arise as a negative deviation from orthodoxy, it gained more traction than any other heresy of its day until it's overthrow and suppression by orthodox Christians (separate from Bart Ehrman's theory).

Ok.

The Arian Heresy is not based on Bart Ehrman's theory. But on the primary sources of the time, when the Roman Emperors has Trinitarian Bishops killed and laymen were tortured for opposing the Arians.

Now, I stated that there are scholars who put it at 70-80%, but if they are wrong they are not off that it was a majority. Even the Coptics teach about this period, because it was during this period their church officially severed ties with the Roman government, though not the hierarchy of the Church, that started in the 600s and became an official split during the 700s due to being cut off suddenly from the Christian world.

 

[MikeHenderson]

Why are you guys arguing over what the Catholic Church did or said 1600 years ago? What we need to focus on is the last 200 years of the Catholic Church because it is this period that the Catholics started teaching a different Gospel with all its false Doctrines about Mary that are not in the Bible.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]IMMACULATE CONCEPTION -- Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ALL HOLY - Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]PERPETUAL VIRGINITY - Mary was a virgin before, during and after the birth of Christ.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MOTHER OF GOD - Because she is the mother of Jesus, and Jesus is God, therefore Mary is the Mother of God.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]MOTHER OF THE CHURCH - Mary is the Mother of the Church.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ASSUMPTION - At the end of her life, Mary was taken up (“assumed”) body and soul into Heaven.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]CO-MEDIATOR - Mary is the Co-Mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]QUEEN OF HEAVEN - God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory as Queen of Heaven and earth.

Another Doctrine that is not found in the Scriptures Is [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Catholic Church officially states that Church tradition is equal in authority to the Bible.

These are what we need to concentrate on for these Doctrines proves that the Catholic Church has walked away from God to follow Mary and their own false traditions. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[Jesus_is_King]

All I have to say is I'm saved by Grace through Faith in Christ according to Scripture for the Glory of God. and unfortantly Catholics don't belive this. infact when Luther raised this issue he was call a wild boar by Pope Leo X the papalencyclicals that this is in is called Exsurge Domine. NO TRADITION can equil the HOLY Scripture. (by the way i was raised Catholic and know there traditions)

 

[KenAllan]

Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, that no one should boast.

The Holy Spirit clearly teaches that being Saved, receiving Salvation. is by Faith and Grace and not by "works". But yet clearly the Catholics love to quote the Book of James to try and prove that being Saved is by "works". Why do the Catholics hate the Holy Spirit? Why do the Catholics hate what the Holy Spirit teaches?

Could it be because the Catholics have been blinded by the Mary of the Catholic Church? YES!

The Mary of the Catholic Church is NOT the Mary in the Scriptures! Mary never claimed to be sinless. In fact Mary said she needed a Savior because she was a sinner!

Luke 1:46-47
[SUP]46 [/SUP] And Mary said: "My soul magnifies the Lord,
[SUP]47 [/SUP] And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.


Even Mary knew she needed a Savior! Therefore Mary knew she was a sinner!


Its the corrupted Catholics Who have claimed Mary was sinless, not the Holy Spirit!

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

For numerous reasons that range from refuting allegations that orthodoxy arose in the context of heresies rather than the opposite to present assertions by the Catholic Church they claim originated in the early church age. It's very relevant to the discussion as a whole and to the list you posted.

Why are you guys arguing over what the Catholic Church did or said 1600 years ago?

 

[fordman]

All I have to say is I'm saved by Grace through Faith in Christ according to Scripture for the Glory of God.

So you are saying the Bible alone is your 'sole rule of faith'? If so...Its called...Sola Scriptura, and there is no Scripture to back it up, so there for it is unbiblical!

and unfortantly Catholics don't belive this.

Interesting statement, for if you were Catholic, you'd know that the Catholic Church has as its sole rule of faith, the entire Word of God, as it is found in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. All of the Word of God was at one time passed on orally…Sacred Tradition. Eventually, some of Sacred Tradition was written down…this became Sacred Scripture, which is written tradition. However, Scripture itself tells us that not all of the things that Jesus said and did were written down. And listen to what Paul says about “tradition”:

2 Thes 2:15, “So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.” Traditions! Traditions taught by word of mouth, in other words, oral tradition, and traditions taught by letter. Traditions which they are being told to “stand firm and hold to”. Sacred Scripture and

1 Cor 11:2, “I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you.” The Corinthians are being commended by Paul because they maintain the traditions that he passed on to them. Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

2 Tim 2:2: “and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.” What we have here in 2 Timothy is an instance, in Scripture, of Paul commanding the passing on of oral tradition.

1 Thes 2:13, “And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received the Word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the Word of God, which is at work in you believers.” So, they received as the Word of God that which they heard, not simply that which they read in Scripture.

In other words, the Bible clearly supports the Catholic Church’s teaching that the Word of God is contained in both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

infact when Luther raised this issue he was call a wild boar by Pope Leo X the papalencyclicals that this is in is called Exsurge Domine.

And you should also know that Martin Luther said...."We are compelled to concede to the Papists (Catholics) that they have the Word of GOD, that we received it from them, and that without them, we should have no knowledge of it at all." - Martin Luther, commentary on St. John.

NO TRADITION can equil the HOLY Scripture.

Take another "Look See" at the Scripture I provided above.

(by the way i was raised Catholic and know there traditions)

If so.... you must have slept through your CCD classes.



Pax Christi


"From henceforth, all generations shall call me Blessed." ---Luke 1:48

 

[fordman]

Why are you guys arguing over what the Catholic Church did or said 1600 years ago? What we need to focus on is the last 200 years of the Catholic Church because it is this period that the Catholics started teaching a different Gospel with all its false Doctrines about Mary that are not in the Bible.

So you have something to back up your timeline, or is this just you personal opinion? (and we all know about opinions now don't we?)

In the meantime, take a look at what Martin Luther had to say about your list, some "500" years ago.

The Immaculate Conception: the Immaculate Conception was a doctrine Luther defended to his death (as confirmed by Lutheran scholars like Arthur Piepkorn). Like Augustine, Luther saw an unbreakable link between Mary's divine maternity, perpetual virginity and Immaculate Conception. Although his formulation of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was not clear-cut, he held that her soul was devoid of sin from the beginning:"But the other conception, namely the infusion of the soul, it is piously and suitably believed, was without any sin, so that while the soul was being infused, she would at the same time be cleansed from original sin and adorned with the gifts of God to receive the holy soul thus infused. And thus, in the very moment in which she began to live, she was without all sin..." ----Martin Luther, Weimar edition of Martin Luther's Works,English translation edited by J. Pelikan [Concordia: St.Louis], Volume 4, 694.

ALL HOLY

- Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life.
PERPETUAL VIRGINITY - Mary was a virgin before, during and after the birth of Christ.

Again throughout his life Luther held that Mary's perpetual virginity was an article of faith for all Christians - and interpreted Galatins 4:4 to mean that Christ was "born of a woman" alone."It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a Virgin."[SUP] [/SUP]Martin Luther, op. cit., Volume 11, 319-320.

MOTHER OF GOD

- Because she is the mother of Jesus, and Jesus is God, therefore Mary is the Mother of God.

Throughout his life Luther maintained without change the historic Christian affirmation that Mary was the Mother of God:
"She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God."[SUP]

[/SUP]Martin Luther, Weimar edition of Martin Luther's Works, English translation edited by J. Pelikan [Concordia: St. Louis], volume 24, 107.

MOTHER OF THE CHURCH

- Mary is the Mother of the Church.

Despite his unremitting criticism of the traditional doctrines of Marian mediation and intercession, to the end Luther continued to proclaim that Mary should be honored. He made it a point to preach on her feast days.
"The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart."[Martin Luther, Weimar edition of Martin Luther's Works]
"Is Christ only to be adored? Or is the holy Mother of God rather not to be honoured? This is the woman who crushed the Serpent's head. Hear us. For your Son denies you nothing."....Martin Luther, Weimar edition of Martin Luther's Works, English translation edited by J. Pelikan [Concordia: St. Louis], Volume 51, 128-129.

Luther made this statement in his last sermon at Wittenberg in January 1546.

ASSUMPTION - At the end of her life, Mary was taken up (“assumed”) body and soul into Heaven.

Although he did not make it an article of faith, Luther said of the doctrine of the Assumption:
"There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know." [Martin Luther, Weimar edition of Martin Luther's Works (Translation by William J. Cole) 10, p. 268.

These quotes from Martin Luther kind of blows your timeline right out of the water buy about 300 years, wouldn't you say?

Another Doctrine that is not found in the Scriptures Is The Catholic Church officially states that Church tradition is equal in authority to the Bible.

Please show some imprimatur documents to back up this claim, or are we supposed to just take your word for it.

These are what we need to concentrate on for these Doctrines proves that the Catholic Church has walked away from God to follow Mary and their own false traditions.

I would think It's going to be kinda difficult for folks to believe this statement now that I exsposed your errors. Sorry


Pax Christi

"from henceforth, all generations shall call be Blessed." ----Luke 1:48

 

[Jackson123]

Why are you guys arguing over what the Catholic Church did or said 1600 years ago? What we need to focus on is the last 200 years of the Catholic Church because it is this period that the Catholics started teaching a different Gospel with all its false Doctrines about Mary that are not in the Bible.

IMMACULATE CONCEPTION -- Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception.
ALL HOLY - Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life.
PERPETUAL VIRGINITY - Mary was a virgin before, during and after the birth of Christ.
MOTHER OF GOD - Because she is the mother of Jesus, and Jesus is God, therefore Mary is the Mother of God.
MOTHER OF THE CHURCH - Mary is the Mother of the Church.
ASSUMPTION - At the end of her life, Mary was taken up (“assumed”) body and soul into Heaven.
CO-MEDIATOR - Mary is the Co-Mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions.
QUEEN OF HEAVEN - God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory as Queen of Heaven and earth.

Another Doctrine that is not found in the Scriptures Is The Catholic Church officially states that Church tradition is equal in authority to the Bible.

These are what we need to concentrate on for these Doctrines proves that the Catholic Church has walked away from God to follow Mary and their own false traditions.

This doctrine is so crucial. The question is why not in the bible.

Let me repeat my analogy.

when Obama bought a dog for his daughter, it is in the headline.

When I bought a dog for my son, it is not in the news.

Because Obama is public figure, have high status social.

When Elijah ascended to heaven, it is in the bible.

When Mary ascended to heaven, not in the bible.

Why? because Elijah have higher position than Mary???

Not what catholic believe, Catholic believe Mary have the highest position among the saint.


Than why her ascended story not in the bible?

 

[fordman]

This doctrine is so crucial. The question is why not in the bible.

Hmmmm... the "real" question is ...Why is the Doctine of Sola Sciptura (the bible alone) not in the bible?

When Elijah ascended to heaven, it is in the bible.

You would be incorrect, it (Scripture) doesn't say that at all. You "should" know that even now, no one has "ascended" into Heaven but Jesus. That's because no one but Jesus had the power to ascend there. Enoch and Elijah, like Mary, were assumedinto Heaven.

When Mary ascended to heaven, not in the bible.

Like I said above...Mary was assumed into Heaven -- taken up by the power of God, like Elias and Enoch -- while Christ ascended into Heaven under His own power. The Catholic Church teaches that, after her course of life on Earth, the Blessed Virgin Mary was assumed body and soul into Heaven. Her body did not remain in the grave and suffer corruption of the flesh; for this is a punishment for original sin, which she did not have. Since she was free from all original sin and was the privileged Ark, Mary was taken directly to Heaven, body and soul. That’s called the dogma of Mary’s Bodily Assumption.
I know you claim there is no evidence in the Bible for the Assumption of Mary. On the contrary, we find a description of it in
Revelation/Apocalypse chapter 12.
Revelation 12:1 - “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.”
The woman in Revelation 12:1 signifies a number of things. The fathers of the Church understood it to signify the Mother of Jesus; they also understood it to signify, on a certain level, the Church. There is no doubt that it signifies Mary, for the Son of this woman is the one who rules all nations with an iron rod (Rev. 12:5). That’s Jesus, of course; and thus the mother must be the Virgin Mary. Therefore, Revelation chapter 12 provides us with a clear picture of Mary assumed into Heaven and placed as Queen of Heaven.
The Bible also gives us a glimpse of the Assumption of Mary in Psalm 132:8 (Psalm 131:8 in the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible).
Psalm 132:8 - “Arise, O Lord, into thy resting place: thou and the ark, which thou hast sanctified.”
This interesting psalm speaks of the Lord and the Ark arising or being carried to a permanent resting place. This is an image of the Assumption; for Jesus is the Lord and Mary is the new Ark, as we’ve shown. Both of them are taken to Heaven, body and soul. Jesus ascends on His own; Mary is asssumed.

Why? because Elijah have higher position than Mary???
Not what catholic believe, Catholic believe Mary have the highest position among the saint.

Than why her ascended story not in the bible?

Some people consider it fanciful that Mary could have been miraculously assumed into Heaven, body and soul. However, the Bible tells us that Elijah was miraculously carried away to Heaven (2 Kings 2:1,11). We also read that Enoch was miraculously carried away to walk with God (Heb. 11:5; Gen. 5:24). It’s also clearly taught in the Bible – and is an article of the ancient Christian faith – that all men, whether good or evil, shall be miraculously reunited with their bodies at the final judgment, for the resurrection of the just and the reprobate (1 Cor. 15). Thus, it’s not in any way contrary to biblical realities – but rather corresponds precisely to them – to believe that Mary was assumed into Heaven because she was God’s perfect Ark and without sin.

 

[Jackson123]

Hmmmm... the "real" question is ...Why is the Doctine of Sola Sciptura (the bible alone) not in the bible?


You would be incorrect, it (Scripture) doesn't say that at all. You "should" know that even now, no one has "ascended" into Heaven but Jesus. That's because no one but Jesus had the power to ascend there. Enoch and Elijah, like Mary, were assumedinto Heaven.


Like I said above...Mary was assumed into Heaven -- taken up by the power of God, like Elias and Enoch -- while Christ ascended into Heaven under His own power. The Catholic Church teaches that, after her course of life on Earth, the Blessed Virgin Mary was assumed body and soul into Heaven. Her body did not remain in the grave and suffer corruption of the flesh; for this is a punishment for original sin, which she did not have. Since she was free from all original sin and was the privileged Ark, Mary was taken directly to Heaven, body and soul. That’s called the dogma of Mary’s Bodily Assumption.
I know you claim there is no evidence in the Bible for the Assumption of Mary. On the contrary, we find a description of it in
Revelation/Apocalypse chapter 12.
Revelation 12:1 - “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.”
The woman in Revelation 12:1 signifies a number of things. The fathers of the Church understood it to signify the Mother of Jesus; they also understood it to signify, on a certain level, the Church. There is no doubt that it signifies Mary, for the Son of this woman is the one who rules all nations with an iron rod (Rev. 12:5). That’s Jesus, of course; and thus the mother must be the Virgin Mary. Therefore, Revelation chapter 12 provides us with a clear picture of Mary assumed into Heaven and placed as Queen of Heaven.
The Bible also gives us a glimpse of the Assumption of Mary in Psalm 132:8 (Psalm 131:8 in the Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible).
Psalm 132:8 - “Arise, O Lord, into thy resting place: thou and the ark, which thou hast sanctified.”
This interesting psalm speaks of the Lord and the Ark arising or being carried to a permanent resting place. This is an image of the Assumption; for Jesus is the Lord and Mary is the new Ark, as we’ve shown. Both of them are taken to Heaven, body and soul. Jesus ascends on His own; Mary is asssumed.

Some people consider it fanciful that Mary could have been miraculously assumed into Heaven, body and soul. However, the Bible tells us that Elijah was miraculously carried away to Heaven (2 Kings 2:1,11). We also read that Enoch was miraculously carried away to walk with God (Heb. 11:5; Gen. 5:24). It’s also clearly taught in the Bible – and is an article of the ancient Christian faith – that all men, whether good or evil, shall be miraculously reunited with their bodies at the final judgment, for the resurrection of the just and the reprobate (1 Cor. 15). Thus, it’s not in any way contrary to biblical realities – but rather corresponds precisely to them – to believe that Mary was assumed into Heaven because she was God’s perfect Ark and without sin.

Whether ascended or assumed it not what my question.

My question is why when Elijah who you believe have lower position than Mary, assumed to heaven and in the head line, but Mary not?

 

[KenAllan]

What is interesting Fordman is you believe if "Sola Scriptura" is not in the Scriptures then it has to be unbiblical. Therefore by your own standards if its not in the Scriptures it has to be false Doctrine.

These Doctrines are not in the Scriptures!

IMMACULATE CONCEPTION
PERPETUAL VIRGINITY
MOTHER OF GOD
MOTHER OF THE CHURCH
ASSUMPTION
CO-MEDIATOR
QUEEN OF HEAVEN

None of these Doctrines are in the Scriptures.

Nowhere in the Scriptures did the Holy Spirit say Mary was without sin. Here are some verses that proves Mary was a sinner.

Romans 3:9-11
[SUP]9 [/SUP] What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are ALL under sin;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written, " THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;


Romans 3:22-23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God


The only sinless person was Jesus Christ and we know this because its in the Scriptures.


Hebrews 4:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

Show me where in the Scriptures does God say Mary was WITHOUT sin. Its not in the Scriptures, therefore Mary being sinless is unbiblical and is a False Doctrine.


What you are doing Fordman is teaching a different Gospel and this is what God says about it.


Galatians 1:6-9
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
[SUP]7 [/SUP] which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.

Galatians 1:11-12
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

The Scriptures came from God the Holy Spirit not from man and not from the Catholic Church.

 

[ThomistColin]

What is interesting Fordman is you believe if "Sola Scriptura" is not in the Scriptures then it has to be unbiblical. Therefore by your own standards if its not in the Scriptures it has to be false Doctrine.

Actually, that's not our standard. Its yours. Our standard is not Sola Scriptura, thus it not being in the Bible is not problematic. It not being supported by Biblical teachings, that's the standard.

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

This thread began on May 30th, 2012.
Yet here it is today still being debated. The OP stated that catholic teachings are indeed heresy. Many people have showed with scripture how they are heresy. WHY is this topic going on?

 

[TaylorTG]

Because not all Christians have Protestant mindsets.

By saying that Catholics are heretics outright, Robocop has set the tone for the thread.

It was a mistake for him not to lock this thread as soon as he opened it, but it's never too late.

 

[KenAllan]

Thomistcolin, Mary being sinless is not in the Scriptures and is not supported by Biblical teachings of the Holy Spirit!

Therefore the Catholic teaching that Mary was sinless is unbiblical!

Show me Tomistcolin where in the Scriptures does the Holy Spirit say and teach that Mary was without sin! Since its not in the Scriptures and not taught by the Holy Spirit it is a false Doctrine. Which proves that the Catholics have walked away from God to follow and Worship Mary as their God!

 

[Jeff_56]

Ken, you are asking for living water from a pit of death. The enemy is being 'birthed' right here, right before our eyes, and all over the world. More and more it is being let loose until the wickedness is filled up according to God's Plan before the Creation of the world and all else....

few anywhere are saved.

fewer even from the enemy's stronghold. - when permitted , pray for them, Yahweh(God) Willing,

and perhaps, IF they have not sinned the sin that leads to death, IF they have not received the mark, IF they have not (yet) blasphemed against the holy spirit of yahweh,

then, perhaps, God will have mercy on them, as He has on us and all the ekklesia (without His mercy, no one would be saved!),

and they may yet turn, repent, and seek to know the real true Jesus and follow Him instead of following demons or man or wood or metal.

 

[Jackson123]

Actually, that's not our standard. Its yours. Our standard is not Sola Scriptura, thus it not being in the Bible is not problematic. It not being supported by Biblical teachings, that's the standard.

To my knowledge, you don't believe in the infallibility of Pope don't you.

Why? because not being support biblical teaching?

How about Mary assumption, not single apostle or gospel writer mention it.

It is lie and lie is not being support by biblical teaching.

 

[notuptome]

Actually, that's not our standard. Its yours. Our standard is not Sola Scriptura, thus it not being in the Bible is not problematic. It not being supported by Biblical teachings, that's the standard.

So if you discard the bible then anything goes right? How can you claim to be Christian and deny the bible as Gods word once and for all delivered to the saints? Jesus confirmed the OT as Gods word. Jesus said that Gods word would never change nor pass away.

Traditions of men verses the word of God. No contest.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

This thread began on May 30th, 2012.
Yet here it is today still being debated. The OP stated that catholic teachings are indeed heresy. Many people have showed with scripture how they are heresy. WHY is this topic going on?

How can it end? When will the last soul be gathered into the kingdom?

For the cause of Christ
Roger