Catholic vs Christianity

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kennethcadwell

Guest
#21
#21
IAm3rd said:
Why does the false distinction between "catholics and christians" persist ?

A true Christian is ( in short ) one who, having realized they have sinned against a Holy God, have repented and laid down their life for the sake of Him who has laid down their life for them, out of love for the One who Loves them beyond measure.

I know many Catholics who are exactly that. While correct theology is important, we are not saved by a perfect theology... but rather by He who is perfect.
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This is not a false distinction, I was in both a Baptist and Catholic church, now I consider myself non-denominational.

When I was in the Catholic church they themselves said they were not Christian, and that there is a difference.
I tried to use that same stance with them that you mentioned, about the repentance and acceptance and then obedience to our Lord and Savior out of love for Him.

They then turned and started saying the things they do different then the Christian churches do, I came back to them about what about what the bible says and why they do things either not mentioned in the bible or do things the bible says not to do.

Their response was the same debate I get from others here on out, those scriptures were not to be taken literally or as long as it is done out of love should it matter if it is mentioned to do or not.
 
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IAm3rd

Guest
#22
#22
kennethcadwell said:
This is not a false distinction, I was in both a Baptist and Catholic church, now I consider myself non-denominational.

When I was in the Catholic church they themselves said they were not Christian, and that there is a difference.
I tried to use that same stance with them that you mentioned, about the repentance and acceptance and then obedience to our Lord and Savior out of love for Him.

They then turned and started saying the things they do different then the Christian churches do, I came back to them about what about what the bible says and why they do things either not mentioned in the bible or do things the bible says not to do.

Their response was the same debate I get from others here on out, those scriptures were not to be taken literally or as long as it is done out of love should it matter if it is mentioned to do or not.
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I know what you're saying. I was once Catholic too... ( not too long ago ). The problem is a lot of Catholics are ignorant of what their own Church teaches. MANY Catholics are what we call "cultural catholics", having been sacramentalized, but never evangelized.
If a person fits my description of a true christian above, then I consider them my brother / sister in Christ.
 
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sacraig67

Senior Member
#23
Aug 17, 2014
455
8
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#23
See the problem is stereotypes. We see people the way we have been taught. For example (please don't pound me for this its just an example) "Christians" are seen as hypocrites. We don't act as we preach. "Catholics" are seen as worshiping mary. Is each Christian or Catholic that way? Nope. Do we actually take the time to learn about each? Nope. Are some Christians or Catholics that way? Yep. We are labeled each way because society tells us to do that. In society we have to have a label. People will jump all over me for saying this but to tell the truth I don't care anymore. I don't care if you are Christian, Catholic, red or blue. If you put ANYTHING ahead of Jesus then you are headed down the wrong path.
 
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FireHeart

Guest
#24
#24
Even so, the title Christian is greatly diverse, There are so many denominations and beliefs. I have a friend who is agnostic and because of how greatly the beliefs and denominations are diversed he doesnt know which one is right. In fact the fact we all argue and debate about the different beliefs and denominations just proves how confusing it must be for ppl, the body of Christ has become so spread out and we all bash and mock each other for the certain belief in God we have.
 
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FireHeart

Guest
#25
#25
sacraig67 said:
See the problem is stereotypes. We see people the way we have been taught. For example (please don't pound me for this its just an example) "Christians" are seen as hypocrites. We don't act as we preach. "Catholics" are seen as worshiping mary. Is each Christian or Catholic that way? Nope. Do we actually take the time to learn about each? Nope. Are some Christians or Catholics that way? Yep. We are labeled each way because society tells us to do that. In society we have to have a label. People will jump all over me for saying this but to tell the truth I don't care anymore. I don't care if you are Christian, Catholic, red or blue. If you put ANYTHING ahead of Jesus then you are headed down the wrong path.
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Wow.... I cant believe how accurate this is, well said:)
 
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JesusIsAll

Guest
#26
#26
kennethcadwell said:
When I was in the Catholic church they themselves said they were not Christian, and that there is a difference.
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Very interesting. A long time ago, I had a Catholic friend who was always having problems, due to an immoral lifestyle. I used to be the shoulder to cry on, gave Christian advice, to just stop the behavior. But over time, I tired of being the shrink to somebody who wasn't modifying their behavior, coming to me with new, but the same, problems. I finally, fed up inside, asked, "Are you a Christian?" The exact reply was, "No! I'm a Catholic." (The No! was emphatic, as if shocked I'd ask such a silly question.) I've never forgotten this, find it sad and funny, and it was a "then I throw up my hands" moment to be remembered.
 
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Last

Guest
#27
#27
dcontroversal said:
I would agree with you that Catholic doctrine is not Christian Doctrine......
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And who decides what is Christian doctrine? Catholic doctrine has existed and can be found in writings since the first century. Protestant doctrines can only be found in the 1500s and later. So if protestant doctrines are Christian, then Christianity did not exist until the Reformation.
 
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Last

Guest
#28
#28
notuptome said:
I bought the book. I've lived with this for forty years. If a catholic is saved it is in spite of his/her church. Romanism as it is more precisely named teaches salvation only through their methodology which is works to receive grace. They will allow others to be saved but only if they are sympathetic to Romanism and unable to join their local Roman catholic church.
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Catholicism teaches that salvation comes from Jesus Christ and by faith in His promises. Works are simply what maintain the faith you have received, since it is clear that people do in fact leave Christianity. Works make your faith stronger.

Roman catholics are wrong not because of the reformation but because they prefer their church tradition to bible doctrine.

If any come preaching another gospel which is not the gospel him reject.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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There is no such thing as bible doctrine. Doctrine is man's reason applied to faith.
 
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skipp

Senior Member
#29
Mar 6, 2014
654
7
0
#29
FireHeart said:
Even so, the title Christian is greatly diverse, There are so many denominations and beliefs. I have a friend who is agnostic and because of how greatly the beliefs and denominations are diversed he doesnt know which one is right. In fact the fact we all argue and debate about the different beliefs and denominations just proves how confusing it must be for ppl, the body of Christ has become so spread out and we all bash and mock each other for the certain belief in God we have.
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There's a lot of truth in this. I've known people who have said that Calvinists were not real Christians, or people who believe in OSAS are not real Christians, or people who speak in tongues, or people who don't speak in tongues, or people who believe in the sacraments, or people who don't believe in the sacraments, etc, etc. Meanwhile the people on the outside looking in end up confused about the whole thing and turn away. The Bible speaks against divisions and yet we are so divided.
 
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FireHeart

Guest
#30
#30
This is going to be a very popular thread:)
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
#31
#31
IAm3rd said:
I know what you're saying. I was once Catholic too... ( not too long ago ). The problem is a lot of Catholics are ignorant of what their own Church teaches. MANY Catholics are what we call "cultural catholics", having been sacramentalized, but never evangelized.
If a person fits my description of a true christian above, then I consider them my brother / sister in Christ.
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Yes I would and do consider them my brothers and sisters in Christ as well.
Knowing where I come from for being in the same situation, you should have seen their face and rebut toward me when they told me to go into confession and confess my sins to the preacher. I told them I already did in prayer to God in and through the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I was told it was not accepted repentance unless I went through the preacher in confession.

sacraig67 said:
See the problem is stereotypes. We see people the way we have been taught. For example (please don't pound me for this its just an example) "Christians" are seen as hypocrites. We don't act as we preach. "Catholics" are seen as worshiping mary. Is each Christian or Catholic that way? Nope. Do we actually take the time to learn about each? Nope. Are some Christians or Catholics that way? Yep. We are labeled each way because society tells us to do that. In society we have to have a label. People will jump all over me for saying this but to tell the truth I don't care anymore. I don't care if you are Christian, Catholic, red or blue. If you put ANYTHING ahead of Jesus then you are headed down the wrong path.
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There is unfortunately a lot of Catholics and other denominations of the Christian faith that walk, and do things in the wrong manner. Hince why we have people, even in government, that want to label us as terrorist and hate groups.

They use our faith to make hatred, non-forgiveness, and even murder as acceptable.
Nowhere did Jesus say to love some one unless they do this or that. He says to love them unconditionally.
 
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Last

Guest
#32
#32
FireHeart said:
Well if I may I have met some catholics and I dont know if this is all catholics or just some but.... The ones I met are very strict on not sinning and reading the bible, they didnt have an relationship with God and looked down on others who didnt meet their standards. Also they believed strongly in baby baptism. on the upside they held God in very high respect especially in prayer
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I think some protestants think that their relationship with God and the signs of it is the only way you can have a relationship with God. I think people who go to services and get jazzed by the music and preaching of the service and call that a relationship are silly, but I do not question their relationship with God.
 
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Last

Guest
#33
#33
kennethcadwell said:
This is not a false distinction, I was in both a Baptist and Catholic church, now I consider myself non-denominational.

When I was in the Catholic church they themselves said they were not Christian, and that there is a difference.
I tried to use that same stance with them that you mentioned, about the repentance and acceptance and then obedience to our Lord and Savior out of love for Him.

They then turned and started saying the things they do different then the Christian churches do, I came back to them about what about what the bible says and why they do things either not mentioned in the bible or do things the bible says not to do.

Their response was the same debate I get from others here on out, those scriptures were not to be taken literally or as long as it is done out of love should it matter if it is mentioned to do or not.
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Catholics are Christians and consider themselves Christians. In Anglo-protestant cultures, saying you are 'Christian' generally implies you are protestant. When someone asks me if I am Christian I say yes, I am Catholic.
 
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FireHeart

Guest
#34
#34
skipp said:
There's a lot of truth in this. I've known people who have said that Calvinists were not real Christians, or people who believe in OSAS are not real Christians, or people who speak in tongues, or people who don't speak in tongues, or people who believe in the sacraments, or people who don't believe in the sacraments, etc, etc. Meanwhile the people on the outside looking in end up confused about the whole thing and turn away. The Bible speaks against divisions and yet we are so divided.
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Yes we are extremely divided and the world sees Christians as hypocrites believe me I know I have been on that side of the playing field. Many Christians have different Ideas what it means to be a true Christian, mine is this- to have a loving inimate relationship with God and to love others with the same love he has for them. I started my faith two years ago with no one to teach me about faith or what it means to be a Christian so I went directly to God and when I crated this relationship and truly began to love others like that I saw with different eyes.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
#35
#35
JesusIsAll said:
Very interesting. A long time ago, I had a Catholic friend who was always having problems, due to an immoral lifestyle. I used to be the shoulder to cry on, gave Christian advice, to just stop the behavior. But over time, I tired of being the shrink to somebody who wasn't modifying their behavior, coming to me with new, but the same, problems. I finally, fed up inside, asked, "Are you a Christian?" The exact reply was, "No! I'm a Catholic." (The No! was emphatic, as if shocked I'd ask such a silly question.) I've never forgotten this, find it sad and funny, and it was a "then I throw up my hands" moment to be remembered.
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Yes it is, and because of that ( saying they are not Christian ) and the other things done contrary to the bible is why I left after 5 years.

Last said:
And who decides what is Christian doctrine? Catholic doctrine has existed and can be found in writings since the first century. Protestant doctrines can only be found in the 1500s and later. So if protestant doctrines are Christian, then Christianity did not exist until the Reformation.
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Catholic doctrine has existed since the first century, but we must also remember that the Romans came in and perverted the catholic church adding in some of their own philosophies, traditions, and corruptions.
One of which is having the catholic preachers come to them and tell them what was told to them by others in private confession, so that they could go and arrest them. Catholics before this, and some today still hold to confession as being sacred and not to be spread out publically.

The thing is like I mentioned, and I was in the catholic church for 5 years, is they did not consider themselves as Christian.
 
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Last

Guest
#36
#36
kennethcadwell said:
Catholic doctrine has existed since the first century, but we must also remember that the Romans came in and perverted the catholic church adding in some of their own philosophies, traditions, and corruptions.
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Such as?

One of which is having the catholic preachers come to them and tell them what was told to them by others in private confession, so that they could go and arrest them.
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I am having trouble understanding what you are saying here. Catholic priests are not allowed to say what others have told them in private.

Catholics before this, and some today still hold to confession as being sacred and not to be spread out publically.
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No, all Catholic priests must keep what is said private. There are no exceptions. Revealing what is said publicly under any circumstance results in automatic excommunication and being removed from the priesthood.

The thing is like I mentioned, and I was in the catholic church for 5 years, is they did not consider themselves as Christian.
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You are basically applying your experience of Catholicism in a particular place within a particular culture to the entire world. In other countries, Catholics would say they are Christian because being Christian implies they are Catholic.
 
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JesusIsAll

Guest
#37
#37
kennethcadwell said:
Yes it is, and because of that ( saying they are not Christian ) and the other things done contrary to the bible is why I left after 5 years.
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To clarify, re: some comments here, this Catholic I am referring to was a mass going Catholic, albeit more sporadic, from an Italian Catholic family from way back. It was not a matter of Protestants being heretic Christians, therefore the word Catholic needed to distinguish. This person owned no Bible, never offered one word about God, apart from an expletive, the three years or so we were friends, and I knew this person well. I was known as a Christian, by everybody I knew who knew each other. This was a matter of lack of identity with Christ, not really knowing what a Christian is, not some post-Reformation distinction between Christians and Catholics, this person the least of philosophers and rocket scientists. Further, I believe not simply identifying with Christ is very problematic. The attitude was you go to mass, and that God stuff is done there, also that Catholics don't read Bibles, only get that from the priests. The point is, this was the fruits of the Catholic family and Catholic mass I found shocking, in the end.

Thank you for sharing your interesting experiences.
 
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sacraig67

Senior Member
#38
Aug 17, 2014
455
8
0
#38
Do you wanna know where true Christian doctrine is? I mean truly real Christian doctrine? The Bible that's all. Nothing man adds or says we need to do. The only true Christian doctrine comes from the Bible. Jesus first! That's it Jesus first. If you put anything before Jesus then the rest doesn't mean a darn thing.
 
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FireHeart

Guest
#39
#39
sacraig67 said:
Do you wanna know where true Christian doctrine is? I mean truly real Christian doctrine? The Bible that's all. Nothing man adds or says we need to do. The only true Christian doctrine comes from the Bible. Jesus first! That's it Jesus first. If you put anything before Jesus then the rest doesn't mean a darn thing.
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But is the bible enough? I mean its so easy to twist scripture and there are so many different interpretations, thats why bible scholars debate so much because one scripture could mean a different thing to seven different scholars. The bible truly is an amazing thing but the holy word of God is misused so easily all the time
 
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JesusIsAll

Guest
#40
#40
sacraig67 said:
Do you wanna know where true Christian doctrine is? I mean truly real Christian doctrine? The Bible that's all. Nothing man adds or says we need to do. The only true Christian doctrine comes from the Bible. Jesus first! That's it Jesus first. If you put anything before Jesus then the rest doesn't mean a darn thing.
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Sola scriptura! If what transpired in the first century was good enough for the Lord Jesus and all His apostles, I'd be a fool to think any different.
 
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