Catholic vs Christianity

[kennethcadwell]

Such as?



I am having trouble understanding what you are saying here. Catholic priests are not allowed to say what others have told them in private.



No, all Catholic priests must keep what is said private. There are no exceptions. Revealing what is said publicly under any circumstance results in automatic excommunication and being removed from the priesthood.



You are basically applying your experience of Catholicism in a particular place within a particular culture to the entire world. In other countries, Catholics would say they are Christian because being Christian implies they are Catholic.

That is not true because if you know the Catholic church then you will know they are all connected.

They are told specifically what to preach on each week. If you hear a sermon here in the U.S., over in Europe or another country the same sermon is given in all the other catholic churches on that same day.

The Romans made the early catholic church preachers come to them and tell what was told to them in confession to arrest the people who by their standards were breaking their laws. This is taught in the Catholic's own catechism classes, which you have to go through plus be baptized and take communion before you become a full member of the church.

This was the original reasoning why going to confession to the preacher was started, and some catholic churches still hold to this, but most are pulling away because the Vatican deemed it immoral and sacred to release information said in confession.
Just like the other things they have been in the past so strict on, that they are now slowly turning from.

In the catechism classes they even teach that a future pope will be the false prophet in the last days.

You will see catholic preachers that now even smoke cigarettes, and drink alcohol.

Next the questions that always comes into play is where does the bible say you have to do penance to be forgiven of sins, or to pray to certain saints for certain things in life, to be called father, or that a preacher can not marry ?

These are all things added to the word, or that was changed in the word.

The catechism classes teach you a number of things that was done to defile the catholic church by the Romans, but still leave out others that are done contradictory to the bible. I am not saying they aren't saved, but I do point out what they do that are not bible based.

 

[skipp]

To clarify, re: some comments here, this Catholic I am referring to was a mass going Catholic, albeit more sporadic, from an Italian Catholic family from way back. It was not a matter of Protestants being heretic Christians, therefore the word Catholic needed to distinguish. This person owned no Bible, never offered one word about God, apart from an expletive, the three years or so we were friends, and I knew this person well. I was known as a Christian, by everybody I knew who knew each other. This was a matter of lack of identity with Christ, not really knowing what a Christian is, not some post-Reformation distinction between Christians and Catholics, this person the least of philosophers and rocket scientists. Further, I believe not simply identifying with Christ is very problematic. The attitude was you go to mass, and that God stuff is done there, also that Catholics don't read Bibles, only get that from the priests. The point is, this was the fruits of the Catholic family and Catholic mass I found shocking, in the end.

Thank you for sharing your interesting experiences.

As someone said earlier on in this thread, many Catholics tend to be cultural Catholics. Their family has been Catholic forever and it's a big part of their identity, and yet they don't really go deeper than that. I can understand that because I live in a heavily Baptist area in the Bible Belt and I actually see that same attitude among Protestant Christians as well. Everyone considers themselves a Christian because it's a big part of their identity and background, and they'll go to church every now and then, but it never goes deeper than that. They don't come to a saving faith in Christ. It's all cultural. They have sex outside of marriage, say they love the Bible but never bother to read it, cheat and steal but make sure to dress up fancy for church on Sunday to impress the neighbors, etc, etc.

 

[sacraig67]

But is the bible enough? I mean its so easy to twist scripture and there are so many different interpretations, thats why bible scholars debate so much because one scripture could mean a different thing to seven different scholars. The bible truly is an amazing thing but the holy word of God is misused so easily all the time

That's where trust and faith in God come in to play. The only person who can truly teach us is the Holy Spirit. Proverbs 3:5-6 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your paths straight." Sure we can read what others wrote but we have to trust God to show us His truth.

 

[kennethcadwell]

But is the bible enough? I mean its so easy to twist scripture and there are so many different interpretations, thats why bible scholars debate so much because one scripture could mean a different thing to seven different scholars. The bible truly is an amazing thing but the holy word of God is misused so easily all the time

Exactly, look at how many people are coming out here recently in the past couple of years trying to say the AOD has already happened. Even though about 90% of biblical scholars for a long time have taught and still teach this is still a future event to happen.

 

[JesusIsAll]

As someone said earlier on in this thread, many Catholics tend to be cultural Catholics.

Yes, I think it could have been very well this, I suppose it possible a person goes to a church and just fidgets, mind wandering, until it's over, whether Protestant or Catholic.

 

[Last]

That is not true because if you know the Catholic church then you will know they are all connected.

Well, I am Catholic, I studied to be a priest, and I have experienced Catholicism all over the world, so I know what you are saying is quite wrong. It's quite evident as well, as I'll show:

They are told specifically what to preach on each week. If you hear a sermon here in the U.S., over in Europe or another country the same sermon is given in all the other catholic churches on that same day.

Wrong, on a number of levels. Catholics that are of the Latin Rite all use the same readings each week. The Anglicans and Lutherans use the same readings. The reading consists of OT, Psalm, NT, Gospel. The priest should generally give a homily on one of those four readings. They do not all 'preach the same sermon'. Non-Latin Catholic have their own reading. Priests do not have to preach on one of them and they certainly do not preach the same thing.

The Romans made the early catholic church preachers come to them and tell what was told to them in confession to arrest the people who by their standards were breaking their laws.

That never happened. Private confession did not even exist until 700-800AD.

This is taught in the Catholic's own catechism classes, which you have to go through plus be baptized and take communion before you become a full member of the church.

If that was what you were taught in your catechism class, then you were taught by a nutjob. Catholic priests were persecuted by the Romans. They would not tell on their own members. By the way, the program is RCIA, not 'catechism class'. Catechism class is what Catholic kids take, RCIA is for non-Catholic adults. And, btw - I have taught both.

This was the original reasoning why going to confession to the preacher was started, and some catholic churches still hold to this, but most are pulling away because the Vatican deemed it immoral and sacred to release information said in confession.

Your information is completely wrong. The Catholic Church has never allowed anything mentioned in private confession to be revealed publicly.

Just like the other things they have been in the past so strict on, that they are now slowly turning from.

Such as?

In the catechism classes they even teach that a future pope will be the false prophet in the last days.

RCIA is taught however the local parish wants to teach it. It sounds like you had a nutjob teaching your RCIA class because that is not what is taught by Catholics or believed by Catholics. That is taught by anti-Catholics.

You will see catholic preachers that now even smoke cigarettes, and drink alcohol.

Priests have always been able to smoke and drink alcohol.

Next the questions that always comes into play is where does the bible say you have to do penance to be forgiven of sins, or to pray to certain saints for certain things in life, to be called father, or that a preacher can not marry ?

Jesus taught us to confess our sins to each other. He breathed on the apostles and told them to go out and forgive sins. Catholics do not have to ask saints to pray for them. Celibacy was promoted in the NT. Jewish priests had to abstain from sexual relations before offering sacrifices in the temple. And, not all priests are celibate. Celibate priesthood is a Latin practice.

These are all things added to the word, or that was changed in the word.

How you practice something is not adding to the word. Protestant worship services involve things not mentioned in the bible.

The catechism classes teach you a number of things that was done to defile the catholic church by the Romans, but still leave out others that are done contradictory to the bible. I am not saying they aren't saved, but I do point out what they do that are not bible based.

RCIA does not teach that. If someone taught that in an RCIA class, they are not teaching Catholicism. That is sometimes the problem with those classes. What is taught in RCIA is determined by whomever is responsible for it in the parish.

 

[sacraig67]

No matter what the doctrine is or what denomination we belong too the truth is this..we as believers are becoming too worldly. We are changing our doctrines to what the world wants. We need to be able to stand on the Bible and say "stop this is enough!" The Word of God is described as a "sword". Why a sword and not a sponge? Because sometimes the truth hurts. If you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior that he died for you and rose from the grave. That you are willing to live your life for Him and to do "His good work" then you are a child of God! Yes we still have a job to do, but not for ourselves but for the Glory of God! Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, Reformed or other.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well, I am Catholic, I studied to be a priest, and I have experienced Catholicism all over the world, so I know what you are saying is quite wrong. It's quite evident as well, as I'll show:



Wrong, on a number of levels. Catholics that are of the Latin Rite all use the same readings each week. The Anglicans and Lutherans use the same readings. The reading consists of OT, Psalm, NT, Gospel. The priest should generally give a homily on one of those four readings. They do not all 'preach the same sermon'. Non-Latin Catholic have their own reading. Priests do not have to preach on one of them and they certainly do not preach the same thing.



That never happened. Private confession did not even exist until 700-800AD.



If that was what you were taught in your catechism class, then you were taught by a nutjob. Catholic priests were persecuted by the Romans. They would not tell on their own members. By the way, the program is RCIA, not 'catechism class'. Catechism class is what Catholic kids take, RCIA is for non-Catholic adults. And, btw - I have taught both.



Your information is completely wrong. The Catholic Church has never allowed anything mentioned in private confession to be revealed publicly.



Such as?



RCIA is taught however the local parish wants to teach it. It sounds like you had a nutjob teaching your RCIA class because that is not what is taught by Catholics or believed by Catholics. That is taught by anti-Catholics.



Priests have always been able to smoke and drink alcohol.



Jesus taught us to confess our sins to each other. He breathed on the apostles and told them to go out and forgive sins. Catholics do not have to ask saints to pray for them. Celibacy was promoted in the NT. Jewish priests had to abstain from sexual relations before offering sacrifices in the temple. And, not all priests are celibate. Celibate priesthood is a Latin practice.



How you practice something is not adding to the word. Protestant worship services involve things not mentioned in the bible.



RCIA does not teach that. If someone taught that in an RCIA class, they are not teaching Catholicism. That is sometimes the problem with those classes. What is taught in RCIA is determined by whomever is responsible for it in the parish.

Well catechism was the class children and all new members even adults had to go through when coming to the church in and around my area between Kansas and Missouri. It was not called RCIA.

If you were not taught how the Romans corrupted the catholic church then you are the one who have not been taught all the true history of your own denomination. We were shown documentation of historic events that backed this up.

Plus we had visitors all the time from other catholic churches from around the world, plus from the Vatican come there on a regular basis. They said the same thing that I said about the sermons being the same around the world.

Jesus did say to confess our sins to each other, but He did not say we had to personally go to confession with a priest to do this to be forgiven. If we go to Him in prayer and ask for forgiveness, He will forgive us. They acted like this was wrong and tried to correct me for it, but the bible is not against this.

If you believe catholic priest were always allowed to smoke then once again you do not know your own full history. For the longest time they taught it to be a sin because you were defiling your body by smoking, and some catholic churches still teach it is a sin.

Celibacy was promoted, but was not a command. Paul said I wish you were all like me, but that it is not a command from God to be celibate. The other thing that was taught on this issue was the reason this was held on to for so long was because the scriptures that say a preacher should be the husband to one wife, and then they mix that with the church is the bride of our Lord. Because of this they use that marriage as the only one needed, which is why they do/did not marry.

A future pope being the false prophet is in the Vatican's own documents.

The other thing you did not explain is how they go by the title of father, which Jesus specifically said not to do.

If you take and make people do extra things for forgiveness of sins that is not mentioned in the bible, then yes it is adding to the word.

 

[Billyd]

Christianity, by secular definition, encompasses anyone who believes in the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, that Jesus is the Son of God, and in the Holy Trinity. Using that definition, no one can deny that Catholicism is a part of Christianity.

A Christian, by secular definition, is one who practices Christianity. Using that definition, Catholics are Christians.

Beyond the secular definition, things get messy. I'll leave it there.

 

[ThomistColin]

One of which is having the catholic preachers come to them and tell them what was told to them by others in private confession, so that they could go and arrest them.

Are there those that break the seal of the confessional? Yes. The first time we see the confessional is at the end of the 2nd century, when many Bishops decided that the presbyters and bishops should hear confession, since public confession led to persecution.

The early church practiced public confession before the brethren. By the end of the 2nd century, the Church saw many being arrested for crimes against the nation that they had confessed to the brethren, but among the brethren were spies for Rome. Rome used these confessions to arrest and persecute the Church. In response, as I stated, many Bishops decided that private confession would go better, since if the person was arrested, it was because the presbyter or bishop betrayed the Church, or the person was legally investigated and arrested.

 

[ThomistColin]

That never happened. Private confession did not even exist until 700-800AD.

You are wrong there. Private confession was not mandated until the 700s AD, however, it was instituted at the end of the 2nd century.

 

[ThomistColin]

A future pope being the false prophet is in the Vatican's own documents.

Wrong. That was taught by ONE priest after the Reformation. There are those who believe it, but it is not dogma nor canon.

 

[Maynard]

Catholics vs. Christianity,

Catholics vs. Protestants you mean??

Catholics were Christian 1500 years before any of the now 30,000+ denominations of Protestantism.

30,000 different Protestant denominations, none of which can agree with the other on what they believe (just spend a day here at christianchat.com to see the evidence of that).

Jruiz, did you know that Christianity as you define it did not appear until around 500 years ago?

A title of Catholic vs. Protestant would be something to argue.

It's so utterly ignorant to say that Catholics aren't Christian.

Study Christian history.


Here's some truths about the origins of your Protestant faith.
[video=youtube;Uw0W5WQtkP4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw0W5WQtkP4[/video]

 

[Maynard]

Part II
[video=youtube_share;xL2Hyve-kwg]http://youtu.be/xL2Hyve-kwg?list=PLGVSKByrYzsufIKilFHFUDlvpSYFlSuvT[/video]

 

[IAm3rd]

You are wrong there. Private confession was not mandated until the 700s AD, however, it was instituted at the end of the 2nd century.

Confession, yes... Private confession? That was started by Irish monks in the middle ages.

 

[IAm3rd]

Part II
[video=youtube_share;xL2Hyve-kwg]http://youtu.be/xL2Hyve-kwg?list=PLGVSKByrYzsufIKilFHFUDlvpSYFlSuvT[/video]

While much of what is said in this video may or may not be true, I'd be careful of listening to anything the Diamond brothers produce, being Sede vacantists... their views are neither held by Catholic or protestant.

 

[ThomistColin]

Confession, yes... Private confession? That was started by Irish monks in the middle ages.

Actually not true. The Irish Monks created the formula of the confessional. Confession to one's elders (i.e. Presbyters or Bishops) began at the end of the 2nd century. It was not made Catholic dogma until the 700s.

 

[IAm3rd]

Actually not true. The Irish Monks created the formula of the confessional. Confession to one's elders (i.e. Presbyters or Bishops) began at the end of the 2nd century. It was not made Catholic dogma until the 700s.

Yes... Im just saying that 'private confession', as we see today in a confessional was something that was started by the Irish Monks. Prior to that confession was a very public, and humiliating thing.
It wasn't until the council of Trent in the 16th century that confession was declared a sacrament, and from that point on all catholics had to go to confession once a year. ( at least )

 

[ThomistColin]

Yes... Im just saying that 'private confession', as we see today in a confessional was something that was started by the Irish Monks. Prior to that confession was a very public, and humiliating thing.
It wasn't until the council of Trent in the 16th century that confession was declared a sacrament, and from that point on all catholics had to go to confession once a year. ( at least )

I go weekly.

 

[Maynard]

Confession

I go weekly.

Me too. It's such a beautiful sacrament. Praise Jesus.