Charismatics Practice Gnosticism?

[Lucy-Pevensie]

https://www.charismamag.com/blogs/straight-talk/15859-a-little-less-information-please

This is your big indictment?



Why You Need More Revelation and Less Information

10:00AM EDT 9/4/2015 JOYCE MEYER


How revelation brings us closer to knowing and understanding God
Paul prayed for the Ephesian church regularly. One of the things he prayed is that they would have revelation knowledge about God and His love for them.

Ephesians 1:17 says, "[For I always pray to] the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, that He may grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation [of insight into mysteries and secrets] in the [deep and intimate] knowledge of Him" (AMP).
There's nothing more important than knowing God loves you and that He desires an intimate relationship with you. We all need to have a revelation about that.

You see, there is a difference between information and revelation. No matter how much information you get, if it never turns into revelation it's not going to do you a whole lot of good.

Maybe you're like me and you have a Bible that looks more like a coloring book with highlights in every color, lots of underlines, stars all over the place. Well, that can actually be deceiving because if we have something underlined, we may think we know it. But until we're actually applying what we've learned, all we've really done is decorate our Bible.
When God gives us the gift of revelation, we've learned something that can't ever be taken away.

After everything he went through, Job was able to say, "I know that my Redeemer lives" (see Job 19:25). That's the kind of spiritual revelation God wants us all to have.

Why Unbelievers "Just Don't Get You"
When you receive Christ, you're given a measure of revelation. You know that God is real and you can begin to know Him in a very personal way. That's something the world just doesn't get. Without revelation they won't ever have a relationship with Him.

The Bible says in John 14:17, "The Spirit of Truth, Whom the world cannot receive (welcome, take to its heart), because it does not see Him or know and recognize Him. But you know and recognize Him, for He lives with you [constantly] and will be in you."

Don't ever get mad at an unbeliever because "they just don't get you." You don't need to spend another Thanksgiving trying to convince your unsaved relatives that God is real. If God opens a door for you to witness to them, He will help you do it with a sweet spirit. But if you find yourself on the verge of an argument, drop it. Don't let the devil steal your peace.
We never need to compromise to please others. We just need to learn how to meet them where they are and be the best example of God's love that we can be.

The Endless Advantages of Being a Believer
It's so wonderful to know God and be able to talk with Him. There are so many advantages to knowing God! With Him we're not hopeless. When we get disappointed we can quickly get reappointed. And when we make a mistake we can receive forgiveness from God immediately, knowing that Jesus has set us free.
Paul said, "I pray that ... your faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ" (Philem. 1:6, ESV).

Here are just a few of the things the Bible says we have in Christ:
We are loved unconditionally. Chosen by God. Adopted as His own. Redeemed. Forgiven. Delivered from sin and all its effects. We have God's favor and mercy. We are joint heirs with Christ. And no matter what the enemy takes from us or does to us, God works everything out for our good.

You can have revelation knowledge of all these things. Think and pray about them. Talk about them. Share with others how God is working in your life.
Enjoy all the benefits of knowing Him personally.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

We are still waiting on proof. Your on a which hunt that is for sure, But you have shown not 1 ounce of proof that these people say or even believe what you claim.

we had people go on a witch hunt against what they claimed was hyper grace. it did not go over well, and the mods had to step in, Why do you think your witch hunt will have any better results?

You just gave me a great idea for a new discussion: Charismatics Doing A Form Of Witchcraft?

LOL!

 

[DevotiontoBible]

This is your big indictment?



Why You Need More Revelation and Less Information

10:00AM EDT 9/4/2015 JOYCE MEYER


How revelation brings us closer to knowing and understanding God
Paul prayed for the Ephesian church regularly. One of the things he prayed is that they would have revelation knowledge about God and His love for them.

Ephesians 1:17 says, "[For I always pray to] the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, that He may grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation [of insight into mysteries and secrets] in the [deep and intimate] knowledge of Him" (AMP).
There's nothing more important than knowing God loves you and that He desires an intimate relationship with you. We all need to have a revelation about that.

You see, there is a difference between information and revelation. No matter how much information you get, if it never turns into revelation it's not going to do you a whole lot of good.

Maybe you're like me and you have a Bible that looks more like a coloring book with highlights in every color, lots of underlines, stars all over the place. Well, that can actually be deceiving because if we have something underlined, we may think we know it. But until we're actually applying what we've learned, all we've really done is decorate our Bible.
When God gives us the gift of revelation, we've learned something that can't ever be taken away.

After everything he went through, Job was able to say, "I know that my Redeemer lives" (see Job 19:25). That's the kind of spiritual revelation God wants us all to have.

Why Unbelievers "Just Don't Get You"
When you receive Christ, you're given a measure of revelation. You know that God is real and you can begin to know Him in a very personal way. That's something the world just doesn't get. Without revelation they won't ever have a relationship with Him.

The Bible says in John 14:17, "The Spirit of Truth, Whom the world cannot receive (welcome, take to its heart), because it does not see Him or know and recognize Him. But you know and recognize Him, for He lives with you [constantly] and will be in you."

Don't ever get mad at an unbeliever because "they just don't get you." You don't need to spend another Thanksgiving trying to convince your unsaved relatives that God is real. If God opens a door for you to witness to them, He will help you do it with a sweet spirit. But if you find yourself on the verge of an argument, drop it. Don't let the devil steal your peace.
We never need to compromise to please others. We just need to learn how to meet them where they are and be the best example of God's love that we can be.

The Endless Advantages of Being a Believer
It's so wonderful to know God and be able to talk with Him. There are so many advantages to knowing God! With Him we're not hopeless. When we get disappointed we can quickly get reappointed. And when we make a mistake we can receive forgiveness from God immediately, knowing that Jesus has set us free.
Paul said, "I pray that ... your faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ" (Philem. 1:6, ESV).

Here are just a few of the things the Bible says we have in Christ:
We are loved unconditionally. Chosen by God. Adopted as His own. Redeemed. Forgiven. Delivered from sin and all its effects. We have God's favor and mercy. We are joint heirs with Christ. And no matter what the enemy takes from us or does to us, God works everything out for our good.

You can have revelation knowledge of all these things. Think and pray about them. Talk about them. Share with others how God is working in your life.
Enjoy all the benefits of knowing Him personally.

So, what is your reply? You just copy and pasted the article I provided.

 

[phil36]

I think he's basing this on the assumption that Word of Faith theology came from E. W. Kenyon (a flawed assumption), and that Kenyon's teaching on Sense Knowledge and Revelation Knowledge somehow states that sense knowledge isn't real. But Kenyon didn't say that. He said that sense knowledge (sight, hearing, taste, touch, smell) has produced a lot of great benefits to man through science, but it has its limitations, and when scientists who go by sense knowledge alone reach the limitations of sense knowledge, they begin to speculate. This is where (according to Kenyon) the theory of evolution comes from. Revelation knowledge (the Bible, not the secret knowledge of the Gnostic teachers) tells us where man came from and why he is here, something we can't learn from sense knowledge. Word of Faith critics try to pin the label of Gnosticism on WoF teachers, but all you have to do is read through the Wikipedia article on Gnosticism and then read a few of Kenneth Hagin's (or even Kenyon's for that matter) books on faith and confession to see that there's zero linking them. Believing, confessing, and acting on God's Word to appropriate His provision has nothing to do with attaining the secret knowledge of Gnosticism to escape the evil physical universe created by an evil lesser god known as a demiurge in order to enter the good universe of pure spirit where the original god lives. This is a pure fantasy created by Word of Faith opponents to scare the uninitiated into believing that the WoF is evil.

I would say 'word of faith' is evil. It is not the gospel. Health, wealth and prosperity teaching is not the Gospel.

But as I said earlier I have a few charismatic friends who don't believe the above and are very godly people indeed.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I have sourced Strang and Charisma Magazine twice. You can't get more Charismatic than him.

I've lost the train here. Who is the he you are referring to? (Sorry for my denseness. Its a way of life for me. )

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Here is how Charismatics parallel the Gnostic heretics of the second and third century.

A. The world is a Platonic duality of a pure spirit world vs an evil material world.

B. Salvation is achieved by a special race of humans by accumulation of special knowledge.

C. This knowledge is special revelation that reawakens the race to their divine identity.

(My info on Gnosticism is from the Encyclopedia Britannica)

Maybe my problem is, as I said, that I dont really know anything about charismatics because I ssteer away from them, but what you've listed here does soundsuspiciously close to a lot of WOF'ers I've met in here.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Maybe my problem is, as I said, that I dont really know anything about charismatics because I ssteer away from them, but what you've listed here does soundsuspiciously close to a lot of WOF'ers I've met in here.

But I have sourced Strang and his Charisma Magazine twice. Charisma Mag is the mothership publication for Charismatics and he coordinates with the top Charismatic leaders in the world.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I would say 'word of faith' is evil. It is not the gospel. Health, wealth and prosperity teaching is not the Gospel.

But as I said earlier I have a few charismatic friends who don't believe the above and are very godly people indeed.

Then invite them here to tell me what makes them a Charismatic while they also refute those teachings?

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

So, what is your reply? You just copy and pasted the article I provided.

Exactly.
Now the article is posted. You claim it's Gnostic.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

But I have sourced Strang and his Charisma Magazine twice. Charisma Mag is the mothership publication for Charismatics and he coordinates with the top Charismatic leaders in the world.

And here it is, this alleged Gnosticism



Why You Need More Revelation and Less Information

10:00AM EDT 9/4/2015 JOYCE MEYER


How revelation brings us closer to knowing and understanding God
Paul prayed for the Ephesian church regularly. One of the things he prayed is that they would have revelation knowledge about God and His love for them.

Ephesians 1:17 says, "[For I always pray to] the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, that He may grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation [of insight into mysteries and secrets] in the [deep and intimate] knowledge of Him" (AMP).
There's nothing more important than knowing God loves you and that He desires an intimate relationship with you. We all need to have a revelation about that.

You see, there is a difference between information and revelation. No matter how much information you get, if it never turns into revelation it's not going to do you a whole lot of good.

Maybe you're like me and you have a Bible that looks more like a coloring book with highlights in every color, lots of underlines, stars all over the place. Well, that can actually be deceiving because if we have something underlined, we may think we know it. But until we're actually applying what we've learned, all we've really done is decorate our Bible.
When God gives us the gift of revelation, we've learned something that can't ever be taken away.

After everything he went through, Job was able to say, "I know that my Redeemer lives" (see Job 19:25). That's the kind of spiritual revelation God wants us all to have.

Why Unbelievers "Just Don't Get You"
When you receive Christ, you're given a measure of revelation. You know that God is real and you can begin to know Him in a very personal way. That's something the world just doesn't get. Without revelation they won't ever have a relationship with Him.

The Bible says in John 14:17, "The Spirit of Truth, Whom the world cannot receive (welcome, take to its heart), because it does not see Him or know and recognize Him. But you know and recognize Him, for He lives with you [constantly] and will be in you."

Don't ever get mad at an unbeliever because "they just don't get you." You don't need to spend another Thanksgiving trying to convince your unsaved relatives that God is real. If God opens a door for you to witness to them, He will help you do it with a sweet spirit. But if you find yourself on the verge of an argument, drop it. Don't let the devil steal your peace.
We never need to compromise to please others. We just need to learn how to meet them where they are and be the best example of God's love that we can be.

The Endless Advantages of Being a Believer
It's so wonderful to know God and be able to talk with Him. There are so many advantages to knowing God! With Him we're not hopeless. When we get disappointed we can quickly get reappointed. And when we make a mistake we can receive forgiveness from God immediately, knowing that Jesus has set us free.
Paul said, "I pray that ... your faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ" (Philem. 1:6, ESV).

Here are just a few of the things the Bible says we have in Christ:
We are loved unconditionally. Chosen by God. Adopted as His own. Redeemed. Forgiven. Delivered from sin and all its effects. We have God's favor and mercy. We are joint heirs with Christ. And no matter what the enemy takes from us or does to us, God works everything out for our good.

You can have revelation knowledge of all these things. Think and pray about them. Talk about them. Share with others how God is working in your life.
Enjoy all the benefits of knowing Him personally.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

And here it is, this alleged Gnosticism



Why You Need More Revelation and Less Information

10:00AM EDT 9/4/2015 JOYCE MEYER


How revelation brings us closer to knowing and understanding God
Paul prayed for the Ephesian church regularly. One of the things he prayed is that they would have revelation knowledge about God and His love for them.

Ephesians 1:17 says, "[For I always pray to] the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, that He may grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation [of insight into mysteries and secrets] in the [deep and intimate] knowledge of Him" (AMP).
There's nothing more important than knowing God loves you and that He desires an intimate relationship with you. We all need to have a revelation about that.

You see, there is a difference between information and revelation. No matter how much information you get, if it never turns into revelation it's not going to do you a whole lot of good.

Maybe you're like me and you have a Bible that looks more like a coloring book with highlights in every color, lots of underlines, stars all over the place. Well, that can actually be deceiving because if we have something underlined, we may think we know it. But until we're actually applying what we've learned, all we've really done is decorate our Bible.
When God gives us the gift of revelation, we've learned something that can't ever be taken away.

After everything he went through, Job was able to say, "I know that my Redeemer lives" (see Job 19:25). That's the kind of spiritual revelation God wants us all to have.

Why Unbelievers "Just Don't Get You"
When you receive Christ, you're given a measure of revelation. You know that God is real and you can begin to know Him in a very personal way. That's something the world just doesn't get. Without revelation they won't ever have a relationship with Him.

The Bible says in John 14:17, "The Spirit of Truth, Whom the world cannot receive (welcome, take to its heart), because it does not see Him or know and recognize Him. But you know and recognize Him, for He lives with you [constantly] and will be in you."

Don't ever get mad at an unbeliever because "they just don't get you." You don't need to spend another Thanksgiving trying to convince your unsaved relatives that God is real. If God opens a door for you to witness to them, He will help you do it with a sweet spirit. But if you find yourself on the verge of an argument, drop it. Don't let the devil steal your peace.
We never need to compromise to please others. We just need to learn how to meet them where they are and be the best example of God's love that we can be.

The Endless Advantages of Being a Believer
It's so wonderful to know God and be able to talk with Him. There are so many advantages to knowing God! With Him we're not hopeless. When we get disappointed we can quickly get reappointed. And when we make a mistake we can receive forgiveness from God immediately, knowing that Jesus has set us free.
Paul said, "I pray that ... your faith may become effective for the full knowledge of every good thing that is in us for the sake of Christ" (Philem. 1:6, ESV).

Here are just a few of the things the Bible says we have in Christ:
We are loved unconditionally. Chosen by God. Adopted as His own. Redeemed. Forgiven. Delivered from sin and all its effects. We have God's favor and mercy. We are joint heirs with Christ. And no matter what the enemy takes from us or does to us, God works everything out for our good.

You can have revelation knowledge of all these things. Think and pray about them. Talk about them. Share with others how God is working in your life.
Enjoy all the benefits of knowing Him personally.

Revelation knowledge is from secret or hidden knowledge. That is why it needs to be REVEALED. Christians don't believe in a secret knowledge to know God but Gnostics do.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

Christianity is very simple. You don't have to know so called deep spiritual "revelations" like being a god, spiritual laws, taking your authority, etc. You only need to know Jesus Christ and Him crucified. That's it! But these Charismatics want to make you rely on them and their "revelations" instead. For one thing it makes them rich. But here is the truth:

http://bible.com/116/1co.2.1-2.nlt When I first came to you, dear brothers and sisters, I didn’t use lofty words and impressive wisdom to tell you God’s secret plan. For I decided that while I was with you I would forget everything except Jesus Christ, the one who was crucified.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I'll start with A.

A. Charismatics say the spirit man is the real man and is absolutely pure before God. They also say sense knowledge must be denied that real knowledge is revelation knowledge. These ideas are a Platonic dualism of reality. They are Gnostic parallels.

oh good grief

here we go again

this sounds more like New Apostolic Reformation...used to be Pentecostal

I don't think you actually know what charismatic is...it is not what you describe

prob no use in trying to clarify it for you though if yr past responses are any indication

I have no use either for the abuse you describe, but you have your attics mixed up

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Their doctrines are not all based on experiences. For example, none of them have experienced being a god even though they claim to be gods.

sigh

Word of Faith

NOT ALL CHARISMATICS

 

[Dino246]

I'm not going to get into what is common sense among those of us who have been in or know the Charismatic movement for the past 40 years. This isn't a Charismatic 101 discussion. Do you stalk people who disagree with Catholicism badgering them to prove that Catholics pray to saints? Or critics of Jehovah Witnesses to prove they believe Jesus is Michael the Archangel?

You're right on this one point: this isn't a Charismatic 101 discussion, because you haven't advanced that far yet. All you've done is point fingers.

Don't whine about being challenged on the garbage you're spouting. Step up like a man and provide evidence that it isn't merely your own twisted opinion.

You just gave me a great idea for a new discussion: Charismatics Doing A Form Of Witchcraft?

Which if you stay true to form, will involve more vitriolic allegations with no evidentiary support.

But I have sourced Strang and his Charisma Magazine twice. Charisma Mag is the mothership publication for Charismatics and he coordinates with the top Charismatic leaders in the world.

Providing links to irrelevant articles is not providing evidence. As I mentioned in your other charismatic-bashing thread, a magazine provides information for a target audience; it is not the mouthpiece for a movement. Please provide CLEAR EVIDENCE that any self-proclaimed charismatic makes the claims that you attribute to the movement in general.

You shared in your other thread that you have a family member involved in an unhealthy charismatic group. While I can certainly sympathize with your hurt, I cannot affirm your generalized broad-brush criticism of everything to do with charismatics. Publicly slandering an entire movement is not the proper Christian way of handling your personal pain.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You shared in your other thread that you have a family member involved in an unhealthy charismatic group. While I can certainly sympathize with your hurt, I cannot affirm your generalized broad-brush criticism of everything to do with charismatics. Publicly slandering an entire movement is not the proper Christian way of handling your personal pain.

that group you refer to is actually NAR...New Apostolic Reformation

that group makes Charismatics akin to Lilliputians vs giants

Charismatics are old school compared to NAR which is so far outside the accepted realm of actual Christianity as to be in another galaxy

in fact, a galaxy far far away

very

far

very very far

far far away

I'm really trying here. somebody work with me LOL!

 

[NayborBear]

Can we agree that God "picks and chooses", who, and what He wants "who" to accomplish, in His dealing with His "Grand Scheme?"
Can we also agree that, like has been written concerning God, and satan battling over Moses' body, that this "war" (if you will), is an ongong, "struggle", within each and every believer, even in these days? And, in one's thinking they are immune to this, within oneself, or, being persuaded by peers, is (a) deception of oneself, or, allowing (however well intentioned) (the) allowing of, and going against, or "instead of" Jesus' warning of allowing such a thing to take place? Call it a strength, or "security" of numbers, kind of thing.

Can we also agree that there ARE "rulers of darkness" on this blue marble, that have NO qualms AT ALL, in the taking of human life?

Can we also agree that God's LOVE for His children, seeks "protecting" His children, who are NOT as (how can I say) as well armored, as others?

Then, we may more better "understand" Jesus' response to His Disciples, when they came to Him, inquiring about "those" who were "doing works" in Jesus' NAME, but weren't "from US?"

Then, we may better understand, (a) reason why, or how, the "from us" crowd, can (in some cases, but definitely, not all) (falsely) accuse those they don't understand, doing "works" in Jesus' name, as being "Gnostic?"

Faith IS stranger then eyesight!

Then, y'all may understand the why it is, there sometimes are some "very HEATED" arguments in BDF?

Then, y'all may understand why some people LEAVE this site. (Not I though...I'll KEEP on keepin' on! For the GLORY of Lord God ALmighty, AND, His Christ!)

Because, of "levels of access, and authority" WITHIN the "Government", ON the Shoulders of Jesus of Nazareth, are not "bypassing" the Cross of Christ, and Him Crucified, and raised from the dead, by the Spirit of God, but, rather (how can I say) "graduated(?)", unto this "Government", In Christ's confessing one before "His/our" Father?

 

[DevotiontoBible]

sigh

Word of Faith

NOT ALL CHARISMATICS

I gave a world leading Charismatic source to support that.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I gave a world leading Charismatic source to support that.

sorry

no comprendo

what is the world leading source?

honestly ~ you are comparing two...no wait three...different entities

does a disservice to everyone reading and to yourself as well

if yr daughter was just involved in Charismatic whatever, you would have an easier time of it

get to know what it is you are actually dealing with

 

[DevotiontoBible]

removed rudeness